Clarence the Blue Puppet Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7424868?MSNHPHMA Coughlin has changed his stripes Mark Kriegel FOXSports.com, Updated 41 minutes ago With half a season now in evidence, pro football's biggest surprise is not the Patriots and their perfect record. Nor is it the Green Bay Packers and Brett Favre, who seems to have discovered the secret to eternal youth. Rather, it's the New York Giants and the fact that Tom Coughlin hasn't lost his team, much less his job. I know: the Giants start out 6-2 every year before the inevitable collapse. I also know this Sunday's game with the Cowboys may begin yet another second-half swoon. I'm not picking the Giants to beat the Cowboys. But I didn't pick them to be 6-2, either. This year figured to be different. This was the year for the Giants to start 2-6. Everything was in place for a total collapse. Tiki Barber, who had basically been the Giants' offense, wrote a book blaming the coach for his famously debated retirement. "He robbed me of what had been one of the most important things I had in my life, which was the joy I felt playing football," wrote Barber, who enjoyed his best and most fumble-free years under Coughlin. As the 2006 campaign ended, the Giants were a mess, their 23-20 playoff loss to the Eagles being the least of it. Their 6-2 start was followed by 1-6 stretch. Coughlin, never a favorite in the locker room, had been publicly criticized by Barber and Jeremy Shockey. Every indication was that the coach had lost his players, if not his owners, who took three days before deciding to bring him back. Firing coaches isn't the Giants' way. Then again, there weren't many good candidates available. As votes of confidence go, Coughlin's one-year contract extension was less than resounding. The coach knew the drill. Before the Giants, Coughlin had lost the Jacksonville Jaguars. In Inside the Helmet, written with FOXSports.com's Jay Glazer, Michael Strahan recalls the advance word on Coughlin: "The reviews I received about my new coach were horrendous... I had at least ten players call me about Tom. All but one had horrible reviews." Coughlin, for his part, didn't care what players said about him. He wasn't a players' coach, nor was he trying to be. Strahan would recall Coughlin's first year with the Giants as "psychotic." This was a coach who fined him for not being the requisite five minutes early to a team meeting. Eventually, Strahan and Coughlin reached a truce. In fact, Strahan would become something of an ally. But as the Giants convened for training camp, Strahan remained home, saying he wasn't sure if he wanted to play anymore. This did not bode well for the coach. Strahan was a seven-time pro bowler, the Giants' career sack leader. But more than that, his absence seemed to anticipate the long-awaited mutiny, an uprising with Coughlin cast according to type as Captain Queeg. Strahan eventually returned to little apparent avail. The Giants began the season 0-2, then found themselves down 17-3 at halftime to Washington. But they came back against the Redskins and haven't lost since. And in doing so, Coughlin has done something I've never seen. It doesn't matter if you're Vince Lombardi or Pat Riley or Joe Torre. Once you've lost the locker room, you've lost it forever. A coach's authority does not regenerate. The process is irreversible. Or so I thought. At the age of 61, Tom Coughlin seems to have become a different kind of coach. He eased up in practice. He deputized 11 players to form a "Leadership Council," to help players and coaches communicate. Going into a bye-week, he gave his players a full five days off. He even took the team bowling. Suddenly, guys are swearing by Tom Coughlin. "He's not beating us up like he did last season," said Plaxico Burress, who recalls practicing "in full pads for 16 weeks straight." "I never thought he was going to change," Burress told FOXSports.com's Alex Marvez. "I always thought he was going to be a hard-ass." Even Burress — who's caught more touchdowns than anyone in the NFC — wouldn't argue that the Giants' unlikely resurgence is based solely on the kinder, gentler Coughlin. It turns out that they have a better pass rush than anyone knew. Dave Diehl is more than adequate as a replacement at left tackle for Luke Petitgout. In fact, the entire offensive line has enabled Brandon Jacobs to make up for the loss of Barber. At 5.6 yards per carry, Jacobs is averaging more than Barber ever did. What's more, the Giants remain relatively healthy, even the old guys in their secondary. Most important, they've enjoyed an easy schedule. The real test begins with the Cowboys. November and December will be tougher than September and October. The Giants may yet fold in typical fashion. But no matter what happens, it won't be a typical season. You think Tiki Barber would've retired if he knew Coughlin would take him bowling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lubeck Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 You think Tiki Barber would've retired if he knew Coughlin would take him bowling? There have been a lot of articles on the new TC. He really seems a different coach and the team is responding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 8-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rphguy Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 8-8. It is inevitable that the Giants will never miss the playoffs again until Eli leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 8-8. Not even close, Seph. A year ago we lost to Chicago. A game we were in till a few coaching mishabs... like kicking a long field goal in the Meadowlands with a wet ball.. The year before that we lost @ Seattle. A game we were in all the way to 3 missed FGs by Feely... Who's to say this isn't our year now? Who is to say we won't beat the cowboys and go on to beat the Lions in their den? The only thing that ticked me off about our offseason moves.. or probably the most is the ones we let get away.. both are now catching for Tom Brady. I lobbied for Moss to be traded for Plaxico Burns.. yes Palxico "Burns" according to my 8 year old nephew... And I lobbied to get Stallworth.... Instead they're both in NE and that 9-0 record could've belonged to us. 8-8? No sir... not this year.. not with this team.. I'm no fan who looks ahead.. way ahead.. but when NE game comes around.. and IF they're 15-0, we might just have a little talk. For now, I'm not thinking NE and I'm not thinking Lions... let's worry about tomorrow.. and should we win, I will ask you kindly to revise that 8 and 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 8-8. based on coughlin's history, you're right to expect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 do these writers ever learn? were they not paying attention in the 2nd half since coughlin has been here? i have high hopes too, but they are extremely tempered thanks to coughlin's 2nd half history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 do these writers ever learn? were they not paying attention in the 2nd half since coughlin has been here? i have high hopes too, but they are extremely tempered thanks to coughlin's 2nd half history. You're right, but as long as the players are buying into it, I think we can reasonably expect at least a little better second half performance. At this point the last couple years we've had full fledge mutiny's in the locker room. At least thus far there's no bitching and injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesta Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 8-8. Dude, everyone here has already seen your prediction. No need to put it in every freakin Gints thread. It's not like it means anything to the rest of us anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesta Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 based on coughlin's history, you're right to expect that. Coughlins' history? It was Coughlin's fault we had so many on IR at this point last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 by coughlin's logic? yes, it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I like the mentality I have right now. Every win we get from here on out, I'll be surprised. Makes the lows acceptable, and makes the highs that much sweeter. Being optimistic is the worst thing IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesta Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 by coughlin's logic? yes, it was Coughlin's history is he more often than not has a winning record over the last 8 games. And this is a man who went 1-7 over the last 8 with a bad expansion team, 1-7 over the last 8 with a rookie qb, and 2-6 over the last 8 with a decimated defense and no wr's. How does everyone forget he went 5-3 over the last 8 in '05? I've got little love for Coughlin, but we can't blame him for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightFire Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Not even close, Seph. A year ago we lost to Chicago. A game we were in till a few coaching mishabs... like kicking a long field goal in the Meadowlands with a wet ball.. The year before that we lost @ Seattle. A game we were in all the way to 3 missed FGs by Feely... Who's to say this isn't our year now? Who is to say we won't beat the cowboys and go on to beat the Lions in their den? The only thing that ticked me off about our offseason moves.. or probably the most is the ones we let get away.. both are now catching for Tom Brady. I lobbied for Moss to be traded for Plaxico Burns.. yes Palxico "Burns" according to my 8 year old nephew... And I lobbied to get Stallworth.... Instead they're both in NE and that 9-0 record could've belonged to us. 8-8? No sir... not this year.. not with this team.. I'm no fan who looks ahead.. way ahead.. but when NE game comes around.. and IF they're 15-0, we might just have a little talk. For now, I'm not thinking NE and I'm not thinking Lions... let's worry about tomorrow.. and should we win, I will ask you kindly to revise that 8 and 8. Yeah because Tynes is so much of an improvement. We basically went from mediocre to shitty. It still boggles my mind that the Pats managed to get Welker, Stallworth and Moss. These three are the best WR tandem in football and the Pats barely had to do anything to get them. Moss for a fourth round draft pick and Welker for a five-year, $18.1 million contract is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Coughlins' history? It was Coughlin's fault we had so many on IR at this point last year? "....I am also aware of the injury factor; the number of IR's and those kinds of things, which is a cancer let's face it. It is something that has to be corrected. It is a mental thing I believe as much as it is anything else."- Tom Coughlin (when he took over thew Giants from Fassel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesta Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 "....I am also aware of the injury factor; the number of IR's and those kinds of things, which is a cancer let's face it. It is something that has to be corrected. It is a mental thing I believe as much as it is anything else."- Tom Coughlin (when he took over thew Giants from Fassel) Blu that quote doesn't mean a thing. I guess tearing your ACL ala Toomer is a mental thing? Taking responsibility for it, and being the actual cause of it are two different ball games. Besides if it was all Coughlin, where are the injuries this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I for one throw out the 04 season. That finish had everything to do with getting the #1 pick QB ready for 05. In fact a case can be made that what happened in the last 7 of 04 led to what happened in 05. Someone mentioned it, cannot kill Coughlin for his second half in 05, 5-3 11-5 finish. Lets remember Jay Feely makes some makeable kicks its 6-2 first half 05 and 6-2 second half 05. Now 2006? I blame Tom, the players, the mindset, the injuries and Tiki. Not in that order, but tom gets most of the blame. IMO he is 1-1 in these "2nd half situations" and he must prove himself this year. I like the approach he has taken and it takes a bigger man to change for the better of the team, I give Coughlin credit and I also give the players credit for giving him a chance. IMO that is as big as the things TC has done to change. All I know is that the Minny game will scare the hell out of me? Why? Its Thanksgiving weekend and the last 2 Thanksgiving weekends we lost to Seatle and Tennesee. Complete disasters. Lets not make it 3-3 with a nightmare at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Blu that quote doesn't mean a thing. I guess tearing your ACL ala Toomer is a mental thing? Taking responsibility for it, and being the actual cause of it are two different ball games. Besides if it was all Coughlin, where are the injuries this year? well, with that statement, yes.... according to him it is a mental thing... at least it was for his predecessor. and that's just the thing, there haven't been costly injuries yet, and the opponents we've beaten have been cake. when fassel had those 2 things going for him (healthy team and favorable sched) we went to the SB. we'll learn a lot in the next 2 weeks- hopefully, there really is a change. we have to beat someone better than us to make me a believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesta Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 well, with that statement, yes.... according to him it is a mental thing... at least it was for his predecessor. and that's just the thing, there haven't been costly injuries yet, and the opponents we've beaten have been cake. when fassel had those 2 things going for him (healthy team and favorable sched) we went to the SB. we'll learn a lot in the next 2 weeks- hopefully, there really is a change. we have to beat someone better than us to make me a believer. How bout if we're gonna blame Coughlin for the '06 injuries, we give him credit for the lack of injuries this season? Not something I would do, as I believe injuries come down to conditioning and luck. Neither of which is a product of the HC. And we don't have a favorable schedule blu, we've got one of the toughest 2nd halves in the NFL. 2006 we did have the toughest sched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Coughlin's history is he more often than not has a winning record over the last 8 games. And this is a man who went 1-7 over the last 8 with a bad expansion team, 1-7 over the last 8 with a rookie qb, and 2-6 over the last 8 with a decimated defense and no wr's. How does everyone forget he went 5-3 over the last 8 in '05? I've got little love for Coughlin, but we can't blame him for everything. i was talking about the injuries. the guy came here claiming they were mentl and he could stop them, so he made his own bed as far as me giving him any injury excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 i was talking about the injuries. the guy came here claiming they were mentl and he could stop them, so he made his own bed as far as me giving him any injury excuses I think the point is being lost here concerning last season's 2nd half collapse. The reason we went 2-6 the rest of the way, beginning with the Bears game, was the loss of Luke Petitgout at LT. Hear me out on this one. We were in that Bears game, until Luke went out. Luke breaks his leg, I think it was, he's gone, in comes 150 year old Bob Whitfield, and all of a sudden Alex Brown is hitting Eli Manning on the blind side every time he drops back. The only reason we won 2 games in the 2nd half last year was because of Tiki's brilliance. I know it seems dumb and overly simplified to say one player can have that much of an impact, but it's one quiet truth of the NFL. You must have a guy to protect your qb's blind side. Do you think Eli's 2nd half numbers last year were a coincidence? If you have some games on tape from the 2nd half last season, look at the game from the LT position. Bob Whitfield could not block any speed rusher, and he was not great against bull rushers, either. The loss of Petitgout was a devastating blow. And if you look around the NFL, you see that teams that have lost their starting LT are struggling big time. Look at the Rams losing Orlando Pace. You think they would be 0-8 with him in there? Losing Amani last year was rough as well, but the loss of Petitgout had the greatest impact on the offense. And with the offense not able to be effective, and Eli's increased turnovers, it put the defense in tough situations. The same thing will happen if we were to lose Deihl this season, knock on wood. Some players you can afford to lose to injury and still go out there and compete. But not the LT position. Most teams, including ours, do not have a backup at that position that can stop the vast majority of starting DE's in the NFL. And Eli is a pocket passer who cannot succeed with that position NOT on lockdown. It was crazy last year, you could visibly see Eli was concerned about the rush from that side when he dropped back. Additionally, the offense changed to include a lot more quick throws. Then the Defense is dicating to you what you are doing as an offense. We can only hope that Deihl will stay healthy all season long so that the Giants will continue to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 How bout if we're gonna blame Coughlin for the '06 injuries, we give him credit for the lack of injuries this season? Not something I would do, as I believe injuries come down to conditioning and luck. Neither of which is a product of the HC. And we don't have a favorable schedule blu, we've got one of the toughest 2nd halves in the NFL. 2006 we did have the toughest sched. exactly my point- let's wait and see before we crown him- he hasn't saved nothing yet. (double negative for effect) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesta Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 exactly my point- let's wait and see before we crown him- he hasn't saved nothing yet. (double negative for effect) You said if we were healthy and had a fav schedule Fassel took us to the SB. So how does that comment fit in this thread if you realize we don't have a fav schedule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 You said if we were healthy and had a fav schedule Fassel took us to the SB. So how does that comment fit in this thread if you realize we don't have a fav schedule? i said our schedule was favorable in the first half and i said we haven't proven anything yet.. are you trying to have a discussion or just be an ass and dissect points. i've seen you do both and the latter is something i have no time for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesta Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 i said our schedule was favorable in the first half and i said we haven't proven anything yet.. are you trying to have a discussion or just be an ass and dissect points. i've seen you do both and the latter is something i have no time for. lol easy big blu. no I honestly just didn't understand because you didn't say you were talking about the 'first half'. when fassel had those 2 things going for him (healthy team and favorable sched) we went to the SB. And as far as the first half goes, we were 6-2. Fassel couldn't have done any better. You've got time to watch a Huey Lewis telethon, but no time for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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