who else do you guys want cut?

[so-cal dub]

Grain

of salt

[BronxRik]

Grain

of salt

Yeah, I was just about to post that link. People are all over this guys jock. "BJ, what do you think about this......BJ what do you think about that". Nothing changes over there.

[so-cal dub]

Yeah, I was just about to post that link. People are all over this guys jock. "BJ, what do you think about this......BJ what do you think about that". Nothing changes over there.

He's been right so far. I just hope he's not about Stray. That would just about put us up as a "No heart" franchise now.

[so-cal dub]

damnit. Now I'm going to have stay glued to ESPN radio tomorrow. :brooding:

[lemmiwinks]

FINN!!!!!!!!!!

 

Can we finally get a FB that knock LB to the ground. This guy is a joke....

 

I would love if we drafted Brian Leonard

[Dre180]

i highly doubt strahan's job is in any jeopardy ....as for finn, i don't see why some of you guys have such a big problem with him. the guy has been solid for us. you don't need to have an all pro fb, i just don't see that as a pressing need to any team really. just someone who can get the job done. especially if we're going to be using jacobs as the main back. all finn has to do is open some holes and jacobs will be able to "bruise" his way through. personally i think a fb would be more important to a finesse type runner like tiki, and he seemed to do just fine.

 

and last but certainly not least, corey webster. i don't understand how anyone could possibly think this guy has shown anything so far. to me, he is currently looking like one of the biggest bust picks the giants have ever taken in recent memory. yes he gets playing time, but that's not b/c he shows any skill, it's really by default since we have no one else. anyone who defends webster please please enlighten me on anything the guy has done, in the regular season that is. i'm not saying this to be a dick here, i would seriously like to know if this guy has ever made a play besides the 1 joke pick he had this year. yes, this guy has 1 pick in 27 games! coming out of college, it was said that although he's not a great tackler or cover corner, he made up for it with his unbelievable athletic ability, and his hands. well, guess what? not only does he not have any hands at all, he can't tackle or cover either. so, if you think it was the scheme and tl, we'll see... if he's still here that is. i seriously doubt that was the reason.

[Virginia Giant]

i highly doubt strahan's job is in any jeopardy ....as for finn, i don't see why some of you guys have such a big problem with him. the guy has been solid for us. you don't need to have an all pro fb, i just don't see that as a pressing need to any team really. just someone who can get the job done. especially if we're going to be using jacobs as the main back. all finn has to do is open some holes and jacobs will be able to "bruise" his way through. personally i think a fb would be more important to a finesse type runner like tiki, and he seemed to do just fine.

 

and last but certainly not least, corey webster. i don't understand how anyone could possibly think this guy has shown anything so far. to me, he is currently looking like one of the biggest bust picks the giants have ever taken in recent memory. yes he gets playing time, but that's not b/c he shows any skill, it's really by default since we have no one else. anyone who defends webster please please enlighten me on anything the guy has done, in the regular season that is. i'm not saying this to be a dick here, i would seriously like to know if this guy has ever made a play besides the 1 joke pick he had this year. yes, this guy has 1 pick in 27 games! coming out of college, it was said that although he's not a great tackler or cover corner, he made up for it with his unbelievable athletic ability, and his hands. well, guess what? not only does he not have any hands at all, he can't tackle or cover either. so, if you think it was the scheme and tl, we'll see... if he's still here that is. i seriously doubt that was the reason.

 

 

Here's the thing, Tiki was good enough to evade pursuers, BJ isn't going to juke the shorts off a LB like Tiki could, or escape a litzing LB/CB in the backfield like Tiki could. He's a straight ahead runner who can bulldoze anyone, but if 2 LB's are there to tackle him, he isn't getting away from both. Finn is exactly what everyone says, a finnesse blocker, meaning he holds up a LB for a short time, just long enough the RB can go by.

 

Now, with Tiki that worked because again, he would often escape a guy or 2 with his agility and Finn would hold someone up long enough for him to go by. With Jacobs, he'll be slowed by the bruiser style in which he runs, he'll need the next guy out of the way, and finn won't be able to hold a block a long time. Finn is basically a running pass blocker, BJ needs an earth mover.

 

 

Picture this, you're a safety. Finn and BJ come out of the backfield. BJ plows the DE and Finn is holding up the LB, BJ has to slow or go around Finn and LB, he has lost his momentum and now you can stick him.

 

 

Now picture this, same situation but now it's a road grader in front of BJ. Again, BJ plows the DE and the FB wipes out the LB, BJ is now back up to speed and coming right at you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and cutting Webster after 1 season of starting is foolish, sign a better CB and start him and Madison with Web spelling and playing Nickel.

[Dre180]

Here's the thing, Tiki was good enough to evade pursuers, BJ isn't going to juke the shorts off a LB like Tiki could, or escape a litzing LB/CB in the backfield like Tiki could. He's a straight ahead runner who can bulldoze anyone, but if 2 LB's are there to tackle him, he isn't getting away from both. Finn is exactly what everyone says, a finnesse blocker, meaning he holds up a LB for a short time, just long enough the RB can go by.

 

Now, with Tiki that worked because again, he would often escape a guy or 2 with his agility and Finn would hold someone up long enough for him to go by. With Jacobs, he'll be slowed by the bruiser style in which he runs, he'll need the next guy out of the way, and finn won't be able to hold a block a long time. Finn is basically a running pass blocker, BJ needs an earth mover.

Picture this, you're a safety. Finn and BJ come out of the backfield. BJ plows the DE and Finn is holding up the LB, BJ has to slow or go around Finn and LB, he has lost his momentum and now you can stick him.

Now picture this, same situation but now it's a road grader in front of BJ. Again, BJ plows the DE and the FB wipes out the LB, BJ is now back up to speed and coming right at you.

Oh, and cutting Webster after 1 season of starting is foolish, sign a better CB and start him and Madison with Web spelling and playing Nickel.

 

yeah, i see what you're saying with finn i guess, it's a valid point. i just don't know who we'd get to replace him. as for webster, i really don't think the guy is ever gonna be anything, just my opinion. maybe it would be foolish to cut him now from a logical standpoint, but i think it's really just delaying the inevitable. we'll see. i'm not bashing the guy because it's fun, i really want to see him do well, he just hasn't showed me anything to this point. hey, if the guy comes out and plays great next year, i'd be thrilled.

[Nas]

I thought we were 15 Mil under the cap?

 

More like 20 Mil.

[fishgutmartyr]

yeah, i see what you're saying with finn i guess, it's a valid point. i just don't know who we'd get to replace him. as for webster, i really don't think the guy is ever gonna be anything, just my opinion. maybe it would be foolish to cut him now from a logical standpoint, but i think it's really just delaying the inevitable. we'll see. i'm not bashing the guy because it's fun, i really want to see him do well, he just hasn't showed me anything to this point. hey, if the guy comes out and plays great next year, i'd be thrilled.

Keep in mind that Tim Lewis managed to turn an all-pro who has lost a step (Sam Madison) into someone that seemed totally inept. To cut Webster now might be doing a great disservice to this team.

[boohyah]

I know Sam Madison was bad the first few games and he was hurt, but he wasn't bad the rest of the season. I'd definitely keep him another year. Plus, all this talk about canning Webster is kinda silly. He had one year as a starter, our safeties are terrible in pass support, he deserves at least another year or at least a few games into the season to see if he improves.

[boohyah]

More like 20 Mil.

 

 

That's now, but we weren't. Espn had us at 9 yesterday afternoon.

 

Also factor in that it looks like the Giants are very keen to sign O'hara, which may mean 6 years at 30 mill.

[fishgutmartyr]

I know Sam Madison was bad the first few games and he was hurt, but he wasn't bad the rest of the season. I'd definitely keep him another year. Plus, all this talk about canning Webster is kinda silly. He had one year as a starter, our safeties are terrible in pass support, he deserves at least another year or at least a few games into the season to see if he improves.

I think I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to imply that I wanted Madison cut: I meant that if the scheme could make a former all-pro look bad, imagine what it did to a 1st year starter.

 

I'm one of those flakes that thinks the talent level at the secondary isn't as bad as the play implied.

[Dre180]

I think I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to imply that I wanted Madison cut: I meant that if the scheme could make a former all-pro look bad, imagine what it did to a 1st year starter.

 

I'm one of those flakes that thinks the talent level at the secondary isn't as bad as the play implied.

 

that's exactly what i'm saying though. you're right the scheme was awful and madison didn't play like an all pro, but he certainly wasn't bad. but at least he showed me something. webster showed absolutely nothing, nothing that i can say he can build on or grow into. as i said, we'll see how he does in the new scheme. just remember, the scheme is only part of it. you have to be accountable as players too.

[Nas]

That's now, but we weren't. Espn had us at 9 yesterday afternoon.

 

Also factor in that it looks like the Giants are very keen to sign O'hara, which may mean 6 years at 30 mill.

 

O'Hara shouldn't command that much salary. The way I see it, we unloaded Tiki, Lavar, Emmons, and Luke.. that's 4 highly paid players.. and you're telling me we can't bring in Briggs and either prominent CB (clement and Samuels) in FA?

[boohyah]

O'Hara shouldn't command that much salary. The way I see it, we unloaded Tiki, Lavar, Emmons, and Luke.. that's 4 highly paid players.. and you're telling me we can't bring in Briggs and either prominent CB (clement and Samuels) in FA?

 

 

I'm not saying as much as we can't, more like we won't. This is just my opinion Nas, but my feelings are if you can get Samuels then fine. I don't see Briggs coming here. IMO the Giants would be better off going after Adalius Thomas who would be cheaper, and then drafting a linebacker in the first round. In fact, the Giants need a linebacker in the first round IMO, they need to start relying on the draft more for this position now more than ever, much better athletes coming out these days. We don't need to bring in guys like Arrington only to dump them one year later, we need to bring up our own guys.

 

Ideally Nate Clements would be a nice pickup, but Clements also has major dollars signs in his eyes and you may end up with another Ty Law situation where he never plays up to the price.

 

If you look around right now, there are other positions you need to spend on. Suddenly there's left tackle, we need another running back, possibly a possession wideout, backup tight end, and O'Hara will command a big chunk of it. Plus, you can't blow the lot this year. Next year there will be more Giant free agents than there are this year, we're lucky this year it's only Feely and O'Hara that are UFA's.

[boohyah]

O'Hara shouldn't command that much salary. The way I see it, we unloaded Tiki, Lavar, Emmons, and Luke.. that's 4 highly paid players.. and you're telling me we can't bring in Briggs and either prominent CB (clement and Samuels) in FA?

 

 

By the way Nas, we didn't unload Tiiki, he unloaded us!

[boohyah]

I think I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to imply that I wanted Madison cut: I meant that if the scheme could make a former all-pro look bad, imagine what it did to a 1st year starter.

 

I'm one of those flakes that thinks the talent level at the secondary isn't as bad as the play implied.

 

 

I didn't think you implied it. Others have said to get rid of Madison. Wanna bet Madison has a better year this year with a proper def coordinator.

[Nas]

I'm not saying as much as we can't, more like we won't. This is just my opinion Nas, but my feelings are if you can get Samuels then fine. I don't see Briggs coming here. IMO the Giants would be better off going after Adalius Thomas who would be cheaper, and then drafting a linebacker in the first round. In fact, the Giants need a linebacker in the first round IMO, they need to start relying on the draft more for this position now more than ever, much better athletes coming out these days. We don't need to bring in guys like Arrington only to dump them one year later, we need to bring up our own guys.

 

Ideally Nate Clements would be a nice pickup, but Clements also has major dollars signs in his eyes and you may end up with another Ty Law situation where he never plays up to the price.

 

If you look around right now, there are other positions you need to spend on. Suddenly there's left tackle, we need another running back, possibly a possession wideout, backup tight end, and O'Hara will command a big chunk of it. Plus, you can't blow the lot this year. Next year there will be more Giant free agents than there are this year, we're lucky this year it's only Feely and O'Hara that are UFA's.

 

I see your forward thinking. I just have a gut feeling the Giants will go after a prominent LB in FA and will get a LB in the first round. I merely pointed out that we have the room to make big moves in free agency that's all.

[boohyah]

I see your forward thinking. I just have a gut feeling the Giants will go after a prominent LB in FA and will get a LB in the first round. I merely pointed out that we have the room to make big moves in free agency that's all.

 

No, you're right, we have room, but some other teams have a lot more room. San Fran and Arizona are 2 teams that have over 30 mill in cap money and San Fran is a team that I believe will make a splash.

 

I'd rather see us spend money on depth. So we don't get killed when injuries hit.

[Virginia Giant]

That's now, but we weren't. Espn had us at 9 yesterday afternoon.

 

Also factor in that it looks like the Giants are very keen to sign O'hara, which may mean 6 years at 30 mill.

I like O'hara as a player and would hate to see him go, but thats just too much, I think we have other alternatives to put there, although losing 2 starting lineman in 1 offseason is a scary fucking prospect.

[boohyah]

I like O'hara as a player and would hate to see him go, but thats just too much, I think we have other alternatives to put there, although losing 2 starting lineman in 1 offseason is a scary fucking prospect.

 

I agree, thought it looks like if we sign O'Hara, Diehl may move to left and in comes Seubert to replace Diehl.