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It's going to get worse before it gets better


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I wish I could say what the issue is….coaching, players, teamwork, etc., etc.

 

One thing that jumped out at me was how well the Ravens receivers played….they caught literally everything that was thrown to them. Webster had another very shaky game, but in his defense (and I won't defend him too much), on some of those completions, his coverage was okay.

 

In contrast, the Giants receivers were invisible, and on those rare moments when the ball was delivered to them, they simply didn't come down with the ball. Hixon was the only guy who showed up to play……Wilson once again provided some early spark, but for reasons that utterly escape me, the coaching staff thought that Bradshaw (who looked to be about 43% healthy) was a better fit.

 

Wilson scores a TD, the game gets to 14-7, and then…..and then he's basically done for the day.

 

I think the Giants are a victim of their own success….the team has guys who:

 

1) Won 2 Super Bowls

2) Are now obscenely wealthy

3) Are now thinking about their post-football futures.

 

If I'm going to fault Coughlin for anything, it's being too loyal to his players and his staff. There are players that should be benched right now. There are coordinators who are not getting the job done - and again, I don't know how much of that is scheme, how much is not having the right players on the field, and/or how much is not pushing the right buttons to coach/prepare/motivate the players that are out there.

 

I'm pretty much done with Gilbride…..maybe that's unfair, though. He can't block or catch. And maybe it's Coughlin that is insisting that busted-up Bradshaw was a better option than Wilson. I probably won't know.

 

But Bradshaw almost got Eli killed yesterday in pass protection, and unless I'm mistaken, that's the reason why the Giants have been so reluctant to use Wilson more. Again, I shouldn't even care at this point, because the majority of the team seems to already be checking out.

 

As far as Fewell goes, I have a little more sympathy, but not much. I don't like his Cover 2 schemes…..he relies on turnovers to stop teams. Which means that disciplined teams like the Falcons and Ravens can dink, dunk, and occasionally slash his defense to death. The only thing that kept the Saints from destroying the Giants was their inability to protect the ball, and the offense committing to Wilson. Take out those 2 elements, and the Saints would have pounded the Giants too.

 

However, I don't see Fewell or Gilbride going anywhere….which means Jerry Reese will need to come up with some miracles next year.

 

I think it's fair to criticize Reese, as well….we've seen several drafts where offensive lineman and linebackers were an afterthought. Yesterday, both units were thoroughly exposed.

 

What really bums me out is that the players that wanted it the most were simply betrayed by their bodies. Bradshaw clearly wanted to play, despite being busted up…..Blackburn has heart and pride, but doesn't have that extra gear needed to defend against the elite playmakers in this league. He should be our 4th best linebacker.

 

The Giants now need a ton of help to make the playoffs, but given what I've seen, they would basically be a homecoming opponent for the true contenders. I'm down to hoping they can beat Philadelphia, salvage a winning season, and then let all the other chips fall where they may.

 

But even then, Philly is no guarantee….I'm imagining a cold, sloppy, loss to the Eagles as Reid gives the Giant faithful one final "fuck you" before he is shown the door.

 

Thank God for 2011…I'm guessing we'll need that to keep the fans warm for a couple years…..things are going to get worse before they get better.

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I'd say something positive like we could have a great off season, but Coughlin refuses to play rookies so who cares. Tommy should hang it up. no one is listening to him.

 

Case in point, Ruben Randle looked great yesterday.........where was he all year long?

 

I think Reuben Sandwich might make Nicks expendable. In fact, they're so alike I think that may have been the plan all along.

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I think Reuben Sandwich might make Nicks expendable. In fact, they're so alike I think that may have been the plan all along.

 

Randle has looked better than Nicks this season, in fact. Nicks IS expendable. He was on the bench quite a lot yesterday. Rightly so. He can't get open and his physicality is gone.

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Gotta disagree on a number of points, well because who else will? :cheers:

 

Horrible tackling the last couple of weeks. Our guys have just been bouncing off of players or flat out failing to wrap players up. We'd get a swarm of Giants around a RB and we'd see that Rb emerge from the pile and pickup another 5 yards.

 

I'll elaborate more later.

 

I wish I could say what the issue is….coaching, players, teamwork, etc., etc.

 

One thing that jumped out at me was how well the Ravens receivers played….they caught literally everything that was thrown to them. Webster had another very shaky game, but in his defense (and I won't defend him too much), on some of those completions, his coverage was okay.

 

In contrast, the Giants receivers were invisible, and on those rare moments when the ball was delivered to them, they simply didn't come down with the ball. Hixon was the only guy who showed up to play……Wilson once again provided some early spark, but for reasons that utterly escape me, the coaching staff thought that Bradshaw (who looked to be about 43% healthy) was a better fit.

 

Wilson scores a TD, the game gets to 14-7, and then…..and then he's basically done for the day.

 

I think the Giants are a victim of their own success….the team has guys who:

 

1) Won 2 Super Bowls

2) Are now obscenely wealthy

3) Are now thinking about their post-football futures.

 

If I'm going to fault Coughlin for anything, it's being too loyal to his players and his staff. There are players that should be benched right now. There are coordinators who are not getting the job done - and again, I don't know how much of that is scheme, how much is not having the right players on the field, and/or how much is not pushing the right buttons to coach/prepare/motivate the players that are out there.

 

I'm pretty much done with Gilbride…..maybe that's unfair, though. He can't block or catch. And maybe it's Coughlin that is insisting that busted-up Bradshaw was a better option than Wilson. I probably won't know.

 

But Bradshaw almost got Eli killed yesterday in pass protection, and unless I'm mistaken, that's the reason why the Giants have been so reluctant to use Wilson more. Again, I shouldn't even care at this point, because the majority of the team seems to already be checking out.

 

As far as Fewell goes, I have a little more sympathy, but not much. I don't like his Cover 2 schemes…..he relies on turnovers to stop teams. Which means that disciplined teams like the Falcons and Ravens can dink, dunk, and occasionally slash his defense to death. The only thing that kept the Saints from destroying the Giants was their inability to protect the ball, and the offense committing to Wilson. Take out those 2 elements, and the Saints would have pounded the Giants too.

 

However, I don't see Fewell or Gilbride going anywhere….which means Jerry Reese will need to come up with some miracles next year.

 

I think it's fair to criticize Reese, as well….we've seen several drafts where offensive lineman and linebackers were an afterthought. Yesterday, both units were thoroughly exposed.

 

What really bums me out is that the players that wanted it the most were simply betrayed by their bodies. Bradshaw clearly wanted to play, despite being busted up…..Blackburn has heart and pride, but doesn't have that extra gear needed to defend against the elite playmakers in this league. He should be our 4th best linebacker.

 

The Giants now need a ton of help to make the playoffs, but given what I've seen, they would basically be a homecoming opponent for the true contenders. I'm down to hoping they can beat Philadelphia, salvage a winning season, and then let all the other chips fall where they may.

 

But even then, Philly is no guarantee….I'm imagining a cold, sloppy, loss to the Eagles as Reid gives the Giant faithful one final "fuck you" before he is shown the door.

 

Thank God for 2011…I'm guessing we'll need that to keep the fans warm for a couple years…..things are going to get worse before they get better.

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Randle has looked better than Nicks this season, in fact. Nicks IS expendable. He was on the bench quite a lot yesterday. Rightly so. He can't get open and his physicality is gone.

 

I wouldn't be so quick to run Nicks out of town. I know he's had trouble staying healthy and this year was his worst yet, health-wise and production-wise BUT, he has a birthday coming in three weeks. Know how old he'll be? 25. Victor Cruz just turned 26 in November. Most people don't realize Hakeem is younger than Victor. Given their monster talent, I think I'd roll with them a while longer and HOPE Randle can get up to their level.

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I wouldn't be so quick to run Nicks out of town. I know he's had trouble staying healthy and this year was his worst yet, health-wise and production-wise BUT, he has a birthday coming in three weeks. Know how old he'll be? 25. Victor Cruz just turned 26 in November. Most people don't realize Hakeem is younger than Victor. Given their monster talent, I think I'd roll with them a while longer and HOPE Randle can get up to their level.

 

I think he's going to demand more money than he is worth. And Cruz showed why no one drafted him this year. Invisible the entire second half of the season, completely unable to get open. Why they didn't spread the ball to other options like Randle, Hixon, and Barden to take some pressure off those two is beyond me. It was working so well in the beginning of the season. Eli is ALWAYS at his best when he has multiple targets he's working, hitting the open receiver....this year it was like we had 2 guys he wanted to force the ball into all game. Hence, what seems like hundreds of 3 and outs.

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I think he's going to demand more money than he is worth. And Cruz showed why no one drafted him this year. Invisible the entire second half of the season, completely unable to get open. Why they didn't spread the ball to other options like Randle, Hixon, and Barden to take some pressure off those two is beyond me. It was working so well in the beginning of the season. Eli is ALWAYS at his best when he has multiple targets he's working, hitting the open receiver....this year it was like we had 2 guys he wanted to force the ball into all game. Hence, what seems like hundreds of 3 and outs.

 

When Hixon was healthy, he looked the part of a competent 3rd receiver but he was injured as much as he was healthy, making it hard for him to gain any traction. Randle looked like he has talent but there were too many times he wasn't where Eli thought he'd be. He'll be better next year but flashes of ability notwithstanding, he wasn't ready to contribute on a consistent basis. And by now, we should finally admit that the Barden project is never going to reach fruition.

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It's the defense. Even when we were winning games, we've been winning shoot-outs or our offense has been so far ahead, it was almost impossible for them to fuck up. I admit I didn't watch every game this season, but almost every time I did, our defense came up small in a big moment of a game. Our D-line has been invisible, none of the young linebackers are panning out, our secondary is getting old quick, and I've never liked what Fewell is doing. If the opponent's offense doesn't make a mistake, it's a score; and even if they do make a mistake, we're almost assured to lose the field position game. Rivers spent more time injured than not, same with Phillips. Not even JPP had a good season, and if he doesn't make a play, it doesn't look like anybody else is going to pick up the slack.

 

We need more than one running back that can stay on the field. Brown, hurt; Bradshaw, hurt as always; Scott, IR--complaining that we're playing Bradshaw seems pointless when you consider it's basically him and Wilson that can play at all.

 

I don't know if Eli had a bad season. Last year, he played way better than we had a right to expect, considering the state of the o-line. This year, it seems, it caught up to us. Nicks being injured most of the season hasn't helped, and Cruz doesn't appear to be a one-man show. Could the other guys get open? Was Randle ready early this year? Who knows...

 

All I know is that our "strengths" on defense are fading fast, especially if Tuck is going to continue to play like he has the last two seasons. Our oline is crying out for revamping on the edges, and that rookie tight end needs to appear quick.

 

We need an infusion of players on both sides of the ball, especially on defense. Our core is getting old, or at least playing old, and we need some of the recent picks to start panning out--especially the linebackers, if the d-line is going to begin declining.

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When Hixon was healthy, he looked the part of a competent 3rd receiver but he was injured as much as he was healthy, making it hard for him to gain any traction. Randle looked like he has talent but there were too many times he wasn't where Eli thought he'd be. He'll be better next year but flashes of ability notwithstanding, he wasn't ready to contribute on a consistent basis. And by now, we should finally admit that the Barden project is never going to reach fruition.

 

It might have, if Coughlin and company hadn't inexplicably inactivated him permanently after the Panthers game he dominated in. That guy makes some of the most questionable personnel decisions of any head coach in the league. Barden averaged 16 yards a reception. I wish I could find the retarded comment Coughlin made about him a couple weeks after the Panthers game. I can't remember what he said about him but I remember it making no sense.

 

I also remember Barden defending a terrible decision/pass by Eli and allowing the Giants to at least have a shot at beating the Eagles and somehow that turning into Barden being the goat of that game.

 

This article is the polar opposite of the actual philosophy implemented in NY, and one could even say a straight up lie. The NYG this year were an old boys' club with no one being held accountable for terrible play:

 

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/09/giants_tom_coughlin_says_there_1.html

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When I see this constant Ho-Hum attitude from Manning, I have to wonder if the team has finally taken on the persona of him....from last week's "fear of missing the playoffs not being a motivator" to this weeks ""You saw the scoreboard, it wasn't real pretty but that's what can happen in football," Manning said."

 

No, we didn't come out completely gutless and unprepared for the biggest game of the season, it's an Any Given Sunday, thing. Which is complete and utter bullshit and words below the caliber of a leader. The team came out and laid an egg. They were embarrassed in yet another nationally televised game and they deserve to be because it was clear they thought they could waltz in, go through the motions, and snag a win. The attitude in NY this year fucking sucked.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--tom-coughlin-can-t-explain-giants--meltdown-032245477.html

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It's the defense. Even when we were winning games, we've been winning shoot-outs or our offense has been so far ahead, it was almost impossible for them to fuck up. I admit I didn't watch every game this season, but almost every time I did, our defense came up small in a big moment of a game. Our D-line has been invisible, none of the young linebackers are panning out, our secondary is getting old quick, and I've never liked what Fewell is doing. If the opponent's offense doesn't make a mistake, it's a score; and even if they do make a mistake, we're almost assured to lose the field position game. Rivers spent more time injured than not, same with Phillips. Not even JPP had a good season, and if he doesn't make a play, it doesn't look like anybody else is going to pick up the slack.

 

We need more than one running back that can stay on the field. Brown, hurt; Bradshaw, hurt as always; Scott, IR--complaining that we're playing Bradshaw seems pointless when you consider it's basically him and Wilson that can play at all.

 

I don't know if Eli had a bad season. Last year, he played way better than we had a right to expect, considering the state of the o-line. This year, it seems, it caught up to us. Nicks being injured most of the season hasn't helped, and Cruz doesn't appear to be a one-man show. Could the other guys get open? Was Randle ready early this year? Who knows...

 

All I know is that our "strengths" on defense are fading fast, especially if Tuck is going to continue to play like he has the last two seasons. Our oline is crying out for revamping on the edges, and that rookie tight end needs to appear quick.

 

We need an infusion of players on both sides of the ball, especially on defense. Our core is getting old, or at least playing old, and we need some of the recent picks to start panning out--especially the linebackers, if the d-line is going to begin declining.

 

I agree that the defense is what concerns me the most.

 

This team has won 2 superbowls since 2007....that's a tremendous accomplishment. But I think the Giants really need to study how Belichick runs his teams.....outside of Tom Brady, there is nobody in that locker room who cannot be cut or traded.

 

And that's how the Giants need to approach this offseason.

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I agree with most everything that's wrong. But I don't see your argument that its going to get worse before it gets better. I don't think you even referred to that part. I see Eli getting better, nNicks getting healthier, addressing the RB issues, and finally getting some decent LBs ( god they're sickening).

But this is by no means a rebuilding. 6 weeks ago we were the best team in the NFL. It's going to get better.

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I wouldn't be so quick to run Nicks out of town. I know he's had trouble staying healthy and this year was his worst yet, health-wise and production-wise BUT, he has a birthday coming in three weeks. Know how old he'll be? 25. Victor Cruz just turned 26 in November. Most people don't realize Hakeem is younger than Victor. Given their monster talent, I think I'd roll with them a while longer and HOPE Randle can get up to their level.

 

I agree with this...when Nicks is all there he is an elite receiver...smooth and takes that ball in stride...when he is not 100% he is less than mediocre. Solution...get him healthy.

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I agree with most everything that's wrong. But I don't see your argument that its going to get worse before it gets better. I don't think you even referred to that part. I see Eli getting better, nNicks getting healthier, addressing the RB issues, and finally getting some decent LBs ( god they're sickening).

But this is by no means a rebuilding. 6 weeks ago we were the best team in the NFL. It's going to get better.

 

You'll think it's getting better, in reality, the Giants will go 6-2 to start next season, and follow it up 2-6 again. Like always, Coughlin's team will be relying on either a miracle, or the team winning out.

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Randle has looked better than Nicks this season, in fact. Nicks IS expendable. He was on the bench quite a lot yesterday. Rightly so. He can't get open and his physicality is gone.

 

You're focusing on the wrong player. Nicks was, again, rushed out of injury to play.. he wasn't healthy and in playing got even worse. Blame the organization mainly Coughlin for this one. KP can't stay healthy... well he was rushed back too... blame Coughlin.

 

Our Defense sucks... Fewel isn't a good DC. We're not seeing Washington and Dallas rise in the division... we're not pathetic enough to get good draft picks but we're lame enough not to make the playoffs.

 

Our Oline and Dline suck. JPP is average and the rest are below average. It's amazing how a team can age overnight.. this team certainly did.

 

I can not and will not blame Gilbride.. it's not his fault Eli is running for his life out there.

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I agree that the defense is what concerns me the most.

 

This team has won 2 superbowls since 2007....that's a tremendous accomplishment. But I think the Giants really need to study how Belichick runs his teams.....outside of Tom Brady, there is nobody in that locker room who cannot be cut or traded.

 

And that's how the Giants need to approach this offseason.

 

We can't really do that, though. We're not exactly in the AFC East during the regular season. Or the AFC conference for that matter. And I don't think following the example of a team that came up short in 2 SBs is the way to go.

 

Our division could wind up with 3 9-7 teams. There's 2 other divisions in the conference that potentially has 3 teams with winning records at the end of next week.

 

Belichick's style of drafting tons of bodies and hoping some pan out just won't work at this level of competition--you simply don't have time for lower-level picks to pan out during the course of a season with the schedules we face annually.

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You're focusing on the wrong player. Nicks was, again, rushed out of injury to play.. he wasn't healthy and in playing got even worse. Blame the organization mainly Coughlin for this one. KP can't stay healthy... well he was rushed back too... blame Coughlin.

 

Our Defense sucks... Fewel isn't a good DC. We're not seeing Washington and Dallas rise in the division... we're not pathetic enough to get good draft picks but we're lame enough not to make the playoffs.

 

Our Oline and Dline suck. JPP is average and the rest are below average. It's amazing how a team can age overnight.. this team certainly did.

 

I can not and will not blame Gilbride.. it's not his fault Eli is running for his life out there.

 

To be quite honest, outside of Nicks insane post season production, I've never been that high on him. He drops passes, struggles to get open, and isn't the physical receiver people claim he is. Even healthy.

 

Phillips was out an entire year. How long does it take him to get ready? I think his wheels are flat permanently. Time to move on.

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To be quite honest, outside of Nicks insane post season production, I've never been that high on him. He drops passes, struggles to get open, and isn't the physical receiver people claim he is. Even healthy.

 

Phillips was out an entire year. How long does it take him to get ready? I think his wheels are flat permanently. Time to move on.

 

I was the first to point out Nicks being soft... He does need to use his size. You maybe right on KP... not sure who we have out there.

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Hakeem Nicks wasn't the problem this season. He played hurt and simply didn't have the speed the offense needs to function this year. Since most defenses had less to worry about from Nicks, everyone else suffered. Hixon right now is about half the receiver Nicks is when healthy. Hixon has big plays, not much consistency. Barden has one good game and disappears because he can't play in the NFL. Randle took most of the season getting NFL ready.

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Hakeem Nicks wasn't the problem this season. He played hurt and simply didn't have the speed the offense needs to function this year. Since most defenses had less to worry about from Nicks, everyone else suffered. Hixon right now is about half the receiver Nicks is. Barden has one good game and disappears because he can't play in the NFL. Randle took most of the season getting NFL ready.

 

You're right, that's on Coughlin for not benching his ineffective ass.

 

Barden had one good game, got a concussion, and the coaches inexplicably never put him back in the mix. That's what I remember.

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