Giants Need To Think About RB

[charlietags]

Are YOU kidding?

 

Derrik Ward is NOT a starting caliber running back, and Brandon Jacobs was unimpressive in his rookie season.

How much NFL sucess between the two of them have they had?

 

You are forgetting, Tiki is a great runner, catcher, and blocker.

Not only that, but we have nobody who has hsown they can run 20 times a game.

In fact, we overuse Tiki because our backups simply are a major drop off from Tiki, it would almost be like the Yankees losing Mo, there is nobody who is experienced in the position.

 

Again, one bad play for Tiki and we are staring at the 1999, 2003, and 2005 Jets with respect to Testaverde, Pennington, and Martin, I really feel better about getting some depth, somebody who could be a starter in case...

 

 

I saw jacobs play in college and he CAN play. He averaged 6.7 YPRush for his entire collegiate career. So if given the opportunity and not just 1 yard for a first down he will do a great job.

 

If ever there is a BS play it is 4th and 1 and in comes Jacobs and everyone knows he's going to get the flippin ball. Play action once or twice and see the fdifference.

[Money]

Are YOU kidding?

 

Derrik Ward is NOT a starting caliber running back, and Brandon Jacobs was unimpressive in his rookie season.

How much NFL sucess between the two of them have they had?

 

You are forgetting, Tiki is a great runner, catcher, and blocker.

Not only that, but we have nobody who has hsown they can run 20 times a game.

In fact, we overuse Tiki because our backups simply are a major drop off from Tiki, it would almost be like the Yankees losing Mo, there is nobody who is experienced in the position.

 

Again, one bad play for Tiki and we are staring at the 1999, 2003, and 2005 Jets with respect to Testaverde, Pennington, and Martin, I really feel better about getting some depth, somebody who could be a starter in case...

 

Ward isn't a starting caliber RB? Fine. That doesn't make him a bad player, nor does it mean he can't fill in adequately should Tiki get injured. How many NFL teams have multiple starting caliber RBs? Hell, how many NFL teams have 1 starting caliber RB?

 

I love how people argue that the Giants are in trouble if Tiki gets injured. No shit. That's that nature of the game ... that's also why some guys are starters and most guys are back-ups. I'll save you the suspense, if back-ups are "starting caliber" players, then they generally don't remain back-ups for long. Accomplished, starting caliber RBs aren't exactly consistently available.

 

What exactly are you suggesting the Giants do? Draft a RB? That would certainly contradict your "NFL success" and "experience" rhetoric....

[27Hampton]

I do think that we as Giant fans underrate both Jacobs and Ward. Jacobs gained 2,000 yards in college. I don't care if you're playing for the blind & death girls college....that's a huge accomplishment. Shows immense skill. His running style could cause him to have a very short career however, if in fact he gets 20-25 carries per game. I love the talent, but not sold on him being a feature back.

 

Ward has skills, no doubt about it. I like him. Yet as has been mentioned, he's not a starting caliber RB.

 

I need to see more of Jacobs. If he doesn't look to be the answer, next year is the year to draft a RB. Some VERY good backs coming out in '07.

[boohyah]

Tying the Giants rookie record for rushing TDs doesn't happen by mistake.

 

He fumbled one time. Tiki, by comparison, fumbled 35 times over a 5 year stretch. Let's not make wrong generalizations about a player who has been sure-handed throughout his pro and collegiate career.

 

 

Money, I cringe every time you throw that rookie rushing record out there. That's not a good stat to hang your hat off of.

[gmenroc]

I do think that we as Giant fans underrate both Jacobs and Ward. Jacobs gained 2,000 yards in college. I don't care if you're playing for the blind & death girls college....that's a huge accomplishment. Shows immense skill. His running style could cause him to have a very short career however, if in fact he gets 20-25 carries per game. I love the talent, but not sold on him being a feature back.

 

Ward has skills, no doubt about it. I like him. Yet as has been mentioned, he's not a starting caliber RB.

 

I need to see more of Jacobs. If he doesn't look to be the answer, next year is the year to draft a RB. Some VERY good backs coming out in '07.

 

Pretty much what I was thinking. I don't exactly know what year Tiki is signed through, but I would like to see him for at least two more seasons. When we draft a RB next year, that would allow us to have him on the roster for a full season behind Tiki to learn the offense fully. It would also give us another year to evaluate whether or not Jacobs is an every-down back.

 

As far as Ward, I think he's underrated, but in no way would I want him starting. Just my take on it.

[Money]

I do think that we as Giant fans underrate both Jacobs and Ward. Jacobs gained 2,000 yards in college. I don't care if you're playing for the blind & death girls college....that's a huge accomplishment. Shows immense skill. His running style could cause him to have a very short career however, if in fact he gets 20-25 carries per game. I love the talent, but not sold on him being a feature back.

 

Ward has skills, no doubt about it. I like him. Yet as has been mentioned, he's not a starting caliber RB.

 

I need to see more of Jacobs. If he doesn't look to be the answer, next year is the year to draft a RB. Some VERY good backs coming out in '07.

 

Derrick Ward wasn't bad in college either. Scored 28 TDs in his final year of college...

[Money]

Money, I cringe every time you throw that rookie rushing record out there. That's not a good stat to hang your hat off of.

 

Playing for an 81-year-old franchise, I'd say that's pretty impressive. A lot of people here seem to poorly interprit what happens on the field, so empirical data is usually the most effective course of action...

[Barens]

What is with you and the stupid reference to the Jets and their QB situation and comparing it to the Giants RB "situation". This is so dumb. We are not thin at RB. Believe me if anything happens Tiki the Giants will certainly turn to Jacobs/ Ward. I don't think their is anybody in the Giants org that wouldn't be curious to see what Jacobs could do with more downs, it just won't be at the expense of Tiki .

 

At worse the Giants can pick up backup in the 2nd round of cuts in June, where there will be plenty of guys floating around looking for work.

 

We're not thin at running back, but we're not exactly thin in many other areas either besides DT. If the best player available happens to be a running back on the first day of the draft, I think it would be a great idea to draft a running back.

 

I certainly have plenty of confidence in Jacobs, but with Barber, noone really knows when his last year will be. I don't think it would hurt at all to draft a young guy who can play along with Jacobs in the near future. And if it happens to be a guy like Addai, Calhoun or Drew, a little more speed in the backfield wouldn't hurt our offense.

[boohyah]

Playing for an 81-year-old franchise, I'd say that's pretty impressive. A lot of people here seem to poorly interprit what happens on the field, so empirical data is usually the most effective course of action...

 

 

It's somewhat misleading. Yes, it's impressive he scored a lot of touchdowns, but from the 1-2 yard.

 

I would never base Jacobs effectiveness based on one rookie season where he played sparingly. That's ludicrous. I would like to see the Giants smashmouth football show up late in games when we are winning, but Jacobs needs to learn to lower his shoulders and stop running upright so much. He becomes too big a target to hit when he does that. If he learns that this offseason, watch out.

[Money]

It's somewhat misleading. Yes, it's impressive he scored a lot of touchdowns, but from the 1-2 yard.

 

I would never base Jacobs effectiveness based on one rookie season where he played sparingly. That's ludicrous. I would like to see the Giants smashmouth football show up late in games when we are winning, but Jacobs needs to learn to lower his shoulders and stop running upright so much. He becomes too big a target to hit when he does that. If he learns that this offseason, watch out.

 

I saw enough from him in preseason to see that he is special talent who could become a special player with some experience and technique refinement. Fortunately, playing behind a guy like Tiki can really help from a mental standpoint.

[boohyah]

I saw enough from him in preseason to see that he is special talent who could become a special player with some experience and technique refinement. Fortunately, playing behind a guy like Tiki can really help from a mental standpoint.

 

If he could catch balls out of the backfield he'd be even more special. Hell line him up at tight end. He'll play anywhere that kid, he just wants to be out there.

[gateb]

If he could catch balls out of the backfield he'd be even more special. Hell line him up at tight end. He'll play anywhere that kid, he just wants to be out there.

If you're referring to Jacobs, word out of Albany this year was that he could be reliable coming out of the backfield too.

[Money]

From what I saw of him, he has good hands. How could he not? He had the biggest hands of any prospect in last year's draft. Still needs to learn about running routes, but he can catch...

[mstrahan22_1/2]

my opinion on this subject is this: if a runningback, such as deangelo williams, is the best player on the board, by a significant margin, we should take him. i think it's just illogical to take a player who you dont think is the best player on the board.

 

i'm not sold on jacobs, i saw ron dayne look very good in preseason back in 04 too, so preseason is definately not something i would use to guage a player's ability. i do think jacobs has the makings of a good runningback other than his height, but in his extremely limited NFL action, it's hard to tell how good he actually is.

[Virginia Giant]

Playing for an 81-year-old franchise, I'd say that's pretty impressive. A lot of people here seem to poorly interprit what happens on the field, so empirical data is usually the most effective course of action...

Ain't you the guy that told me stats lie?

 

 

 

I hope Jacobs turns out to be great, I'm sure we all do, but i didn't see anything that would lead me to beleive he was anything special last year. Yes when he got the ball it was clear he was, but that doesn't change the fact that he is an upright runner.

[Barens]

my opinion on this subject is this: if a runningback, such as deangelo williams, is the best player on the board, by a significant margin, we should take him. i think it's just illogical to take a player who you dont think is the best player on the board.

 

i'm not sold on jacobs, i saw ron dayne look very good in preseason back in 04 too, so preseason is definately not something i would use to guage a player's ability. i do think jacobs has the makings of a good runningback other than his height, but in his extremely limited NFL action, it's hard to tell how good he actually is.

 

I will never understand how anyone can compare Ron Dayne and Brandon Jacobs. Dayne was used in the same fashion as Jacobs was last year(although really, Jacobs had a lesser role than Dayne had in his first couple of years), and yet, when you look at it, Jacobs had 7 TD's on 38 carries. In Dayne's best year, he had 7 TD's on 180 carries, and quite frankly, I would be willing to bet that if Jacobs got 180 carries in a year, we wouldn't be dissapointed with the results.

[Money]

Ain't you the guy that told me stats lie?

I hope Jacobs turns out to be great, I'm sure we all do, but i didn't see anything that would lead me to beleive he was anything special last year. Yes when he got the ball it was clear he was, but that doesn't change the fact that he is an upright runner.

 

I don't recall uttering those words, although I would agree they do lie in certain situations.

 

If you can't see Jacobs talent (such as him looking like a man among boys in preseason action), and refuse to acknowledge statistical validation of his efforts under the guise of "stats lie," then I can't help you. Jacobs runs too upright? So what? Tiki is a fumbler...

[mstrahan22_1/2]

I will never understand how anyone can compare Ron Dayne and Brandon Jacobs. Dayne was used in the same fashion as Jacobs was last year(although really, Jacobs had a lesser role than Dayne had in his first couple of years), and yet, when you look at it, Jacobs had 7 TD's on 38 carries. In Dayne's best year, he had 7 TD's on 180 carries, and quite frankly, I would be willing to bet that if Jacobs got 180 carries in a year, we wouldn't be dissapointed with the results.

i wasnt comparing their careers, i was comparing how jacobs performed very well in preseason, to ron dayne performing very well in preseason, to show that it can't be used to judge a player's ability. i'm glad you mentioned that jacobs had 7 TDs on 38 carries. i DO believe that he is a good goal line runningback and has shown potential to be a great GOAL LINE runningback. however, i havent seen relevant evidence that suggests that he is featured-back material. i would not call college performance (especially at southern illilois) or preseason performance, relevant.

[osi724dasack]

Tiki may not have much left...I know he had a career year last year...but just look at what happend to Curtis Martin, RB's dont slowly come out of there prime like LB's, CB's, QB's, WR's, etc....

 

they lose it fast

 

I really like Wards potential...I was extremely high on him coming into the year...and I still am..I think he could be a nice back for us in the future

 

Brandon Jacobs is very talented...however at 6-4, he wont be healthy for 16 weeks as a starter....ever as a starter (well I shouldnt say ever, lets just say he will be nicked up a lot)

 

So we can hold off on a RB for one more year...besides rookie RB's can usually start right off the bat so when Tiki wears out...we will see what we have in BJ, and Ward, and then be able to make a decision on wheather to draft a rook or sign a vet.

 

But this year RB will not be addressed early...

[Pizan]

Tiki may not have much left...I know he had a career year last year...but just look at what happend to Curtis Martin, RB's dont slowly come out of there prime like LB's, CB's, QB's, WR's, etc....

 

they lose it fast

 

I really like Wards potential...I was extremely high on him coming into the year...and I still am..I think he could be a nice back for us in the future

 

Brandon Jacobs is very talented...however at 6-4, he wont be healthy for 16 weeks as a starter....ever as a starter (well I shouldnt say ever, lets just say he will be nicked up a lot)

 

So we can hold off on a RB for one more year...besides rookie RB's can usually start right off the bat so when Tiki wears out...we will see what we have in BJ, and Ward, and then be able to make a decision on wheather to draft a rook or sign a vet.

 

But this year RB will not be addressed early...

 

 

Its funny when people use Curtis Martin as their crutch to balance this out. Tiki means too much to us, Martin meant that much to the Jets. You can not prepare for a loss of that magnitude. Period. Expecting an unproven rookie to do so is rediculous, just as expecting Jacobs to. Every year it is guaranteed that there will be good talent available at the RB position. RB is the easiest transition from college to NFL. If Tiki would happen to go down to injury and Jacobs doesnt look to be the answer we can then draft one the following year. As of right now Jacobs still has tons of potential and has the ability to be an every down back.

 

Please you need to explain to me why Jacobs will be nicked up more so then the next guy... Jacobs being an over sized back isnt a factor at all. If anything that helps him.

[osi724dasack]

Its funny when people use Curtis Martin as their crutch to balance this out. Tiki means too much to us, Martin meant that much to the Jets. You can not prepare for a loss of that magnitude. Period. Expecting an unproven rookie to do so is rediculous, just as expecting Jacobs to. Every year it is guaranteed that there will be good talent available at the RB position. RB is the easiest transition from college to NFL. If Tiki would happen to go down to injury and Jacobs doesnt look to be the answer we can then draft one the following year. As of right now Jacobs still has tons of potential and has the ability to be an every down back.

 

Please you need to explain to me why Jacobs will be nicked up more so then the next guy... Jacobs being an over sized back isnt a factor at all. If anything that helps him.

I never said that Jacobs or Ward can step in and be just as effective as Tiki...I just said they are nice backups to have...and down the road can possibly start.

 

And at 6-4, playing RB is going to be a bitch...if BJ doesnt get low, he will get killed sooner or later.

 

I like Jacobs and never said I didnt...its just that if he does not get low...he will get hurt

[Pizan]

I never said that Jacobs or Ward can step in and be just as effective as Tiki...I just said they are nice backups to have...and down the road can possibly start.

 

And at 6-4, playing RB is going to be a bitch...if BJ doesnt get low, he will get killed sooner or later.

 

I like Jacobs and never said I didnt...its just that if he does not get low...he will get hurt

 

 

 

 

I was reffering to the people that say getting a rookie in this draft will help more so then Jacobs or Ward. Nobody regardless of it being a rookie or Jacobs/Ward, nobody will come in and make up for the loss of Tiki. People expect that if we sign a rookie he can come in and we will have no worries. If Tiki gets hurt we are screwed.

 

Jacobs is much bigger then the average defender who will get a clean enough shot, his weight alone will help prevent injuries. Even saying Jacobs chances of getting popped are more likely then a little back is stupid. I have seen plenty of smaller guys get cleaned. But saying he will get hurt is rediculous. Anybody can get hurt no matter their size. The risk increase for the smaller backs more so then anything. They want him to lower his shoulders to break more tackles and give less of a midsection for defenders to target.

[Virginia Giant]

I don't recall uttering those words, although I would agree they do lie in certain situations.

 

If you can't see Jacobs talent (such as him looking like a man among boys in preseason action), and refuse to acknowledge statistical validation of his efforts under the guise of "stats lie," then I can't help you. Jacobs runs too upright? So what? Tiki is a fumbler...

 

I might be wrong about the stats thing, but i thought you said that when we talked about the Eagles vs Falcons last year or wether Phill Simms deserved to be in the hall of fame or not, sorry if I am mistaken.

 

 

 

Look, Iwould love nothing more than Jacobs to turn into the next great Giants RB, and I'm not disregarding what he's accomplished thus far, but if a player is available to us that ligitimately has a chance to become a star I think we have to take him. Looking at things the way they are, at both players in this part of their careers, I think Lendale is a better option to have in our backfield.

 

I'm not saying Jacobs is Ron Dayne, he has a good shot at becoming a very good back, but his running style worries me. Running upright is a style of running, not a flaw in mechanics like Tiki had when he couldn't hold the football, fixing Jacobs will be much harder and much less likely. At 6' 4", running upright, he is not using his power to his advantage, so while weighing 260 lbs sounds like it should make a rb unstoppable, if he's running upright all that size and power is negated.

 

But lets say he does become a very good back, and Lendale also becomes a very good back, that would give us 2 great options in the backfield or trade bait.

 

 

Also, in a much less likely scenerio, Dominik Davis would be my RB of choice instead of Lendale.

[Money]

I might be wrong about the stats thing, but i thought you said that when we talked about the Eagles vs Falcons last year or wether Phill Simms deserved to be in the hall of fame or not, sorry if I am mistaken.

Look, Iwould love nothing more than Jacobs to turn into the next great Giants RB, and I'm not disregarding what he's accomplished thus far, but if a player is available to us that ligitimately has a chance to become a star I think we have to take him. Looking at things the way they are, at both players in this part of their careers, I think Lendale is a better option to have in our backfield.

 

I'm not saying Jacobs is Ron Dayne, he has a good shot at becoming a very good back, but his running style worries me. Running upright is a style of running, not a flaw in mechanics like Tiki had when he couldn't hold the football, fixing Jacobs will be much harder and much less likely. At 6' 4", running upright, he is not using his power to his advantage, so while weighing 260 lbs sounds like it should make a rb unstoppable, if he's running upright all that size and power is negated.

 

But lets say he does become a very good back, and Lendale also becomes a very good back, that would give us 2 great options in the backfield or trade bait.

Also, in a much less likely scenerio, Dominik Davis would be my RB of choice instead of Lendale.

 

Have you seen the way Accorsi and Coughlin have talked about Jacobs? They think he is a special talent with ability to be a star. Accorsi went as far to say that Jacobs was the pick he was most excited about last year.

 

I think it's comical to assume that Jacobs "flaw" is overwhelmingly difficult to correct. Tiki completely reinvented his running style and has become a different player. If that can happen, Jacobs can certainly lean forward a bit more when he runs. Saying that Tiki's transformation was easier than Jacobs refining his running technique is either a disservice to the work Tiki did or simply a misanalysis of Jacobs as a player.

 

Jacobs is bigger, healthier, faster, and more motivated than LenDale White. White would be a horrid pick for us at 25. Out of curiousity, did Derrick Ward spontaneously combust? If not, White would sit behind him as well.

 

Good luck getting Domanick Davis, considering he recently signed an extension.

[Barens]

i wasnt comparing their careers, i was comparing how jacobs performed very well in preseason, to ron dayne performing very well in preseason, to show that it can't be used to judge a player's ability. i'm glad you mentioned that jacobs had 7 TDs on 38 carries. i DO believe that he is a good goal line runningback and has shown potential to be a great GOAL LINE runningback. however, i havent seen relevant evidence that suggests that he is featured-back material. i would not call college performance (especially at southern illilois) or preseason performance, relevant.

 

Well, in my opinion, I would call a strong pre-season, followed by the 7 TD's on 38 carries relevant, especially for a rookie. And besides, there aren't many teams left who soley rely on one featured back anymore.

 

Either way, I agree with your first opinion that if a running back is available as the best player on the board, I would hope we take him as well. And while rookie RB's have more of a tendency to come in and perform relatively well, I like the idea of drafting a running back and not rushing him into action. Clearly, that approach has helped Tiki Barber in extending his career.