Post Camp Predictions

[BlueInCanada]

People know I've been in support of Moss over the last few seasons heh I always seem to have a few players I want to see do well, the "underdogs" almost. This is Moss's year in all honesty, he has the best chance to see the field since he has been with the Giants. With only Steve Smith guaranteed to be on the field 24/7 he has atleast a good chance being one of the only vet WRs on the team, next to Tyree who might not even make the final 53. I trust the Giants and who they keep year in and out and they must see something in Moss to hold on to him for these years when basically showing nothing on the field outside of the Seattle game. He had alot of noise this training camp, being able to blow past the secondary and using his speed on screens, end around ect. This year he has to show that he deserves a starting spot and from what we've seen in pre-season he has taken Smiths place in the slot, which is a good idea in my opinion.

 

I also dont think Hixon is the #1, I've never seen what people give him so much praise over and I really hope he gets replaced by Nicks or some WR who shows he deserves the #1 spot. I'm not saying Hixon isnt a good WR he just isnt a #1 and neither is Moss, it's going to be interesting to see what WRs step up on the field. Smith is a guaranteed start and its up to Nicks/Barden/Moss/Manningham/Hixon/Tyree to show who is going to step up and fill what role in the WR core.

[Storm]

Exactly Blue. Hixon is not a number 1 WR. Moss might not be either, nor do I think he should be starting, but no way in Hell should Hixon be a starting WR on this team. And he shouldn't have been last year either.

 

I honestly think our future looks to be Manningham, Smith, Nicks.....or maybe Smith, Nicks, Manningham.

[Mr. P]

People know I've been in support of Moss over the last few seasons heh I always seem to have a few players I want to see do well, the "underdogs" almost. This is Moss's year in all honesty, he has the best chance to see the field since he has been with the Giants. With only Steve Smith guaranteed to be on the field 24/7 he has atleast a good chance being one of the only vet WRs on the team, next to Tyree who might not even make the final 53. I trust the Giants and who they keep year in and out and they must see something in Moss to hold on to him for these years when basically showing nothing on the field outside of the Seattle game. He had alot of noise this training camp, being able to blow past the secondary and using his speed on screens, end around ect. This year he has to show that he deserves a starting spot and from what we've seen in pre-season he has taken Smiths place in the slot, which is a good idea in my opinion.

 

I also dont think Hixon is the #1, I've never seen what people give him so much praise over and I really hope he gets replaced by Nicks or some WR who shows he deserves the #1 spot. I'm not saying Hixon isnt a good WR he just isnt a #1 and neither is Moss, it's going to be interesting to see what WRs step up on the field. Smith is a guaranteed start and its up to Nicks/Barden/Moss/Manningham/Hixon/Tyree to show who is going to step up and fill what role in the WR core.

 

 

the thing with hixon is that 1. like it or not a starting job became his to lose. and 2. noone has really stepped up and done enough to take that spot from him.

 

 

 

im a manningham fan, i think he could be a star. i think hes cemented himself ahead of moss at this point but i dont think hes taken hixons spot. but with it also being hixons last year, if he doesnt show that he is a no.1 i think we let him walk after this season.

[Tempest]

Who is this you speak of? It can't possibly be Sinorice Moss.

 

Because he's physically, and potentially, a better WR than Hixon. Moss never gets to see the field, I love how you guys make all these conclusions about how good he is and have rarely got to see him play.

[Mr. P]

Because he's physically, and potentially, a better WR than Hixon. Moss never gets to see the field, I love how you guys make all these conclusions about how good he is and have rarely got to see him play.

 

 

but isnt that also what youre doing?

[fishgutmartyr]

If Manningham takes the 3rd WR position, Moss is gone. Last year under contract, repeatedly injured (in practice, no less), and inadequate in special teams. That is not a guy you want as a 4th WR--not if you are trying to develop a WR group, IMO. You already have Barden and Nicks showing more as developmental players on the squad, so where does Moss fit in, if not in that third slot?

 

I'd rather have Hagan or Tyree--both are special team contributers, and where Tyree has done it in the past, Hagan is younger, potentially a better receiver, and cheaper. I don't think Hagan is eligible for the practice squad, is he?

[CrazedDogs]

Cool, he had less than 5. With 1 TD in that span.

 

So in 7 games he had 30 receptions and a TD. In 14 he'd have 60 and 2 TDs. GREAT NUMBERS!

 

He had a better ratio when he was down the depth chart.

 

Don't even try to compare Hixon to Plaxico either. LMAO. Plaxico scored points. Something Hixon obviously had a phobia of.

 

Save the sarcasm for when its relevant...those aren't 'great' numbers, obviously...but they're pretty good. Our problem isn't with too much Hixon...we just need someone else to step up.

 

And like it or not, we're going to be comparing whoever our #1 is to Plaxico for at least the next couple years. So get used to it, its going to get real old, real fast.

 

 

And once again, injuries in your rookie year can set you back full seasons.

 

Very true.

 

And btw, Crazed, you haven't even seen Moss on the field with Manning and the starters (when he was, he also matched Hixon's glorious 2 touchdown number, gasp!) for more than 10 games. I refuse to pass judgment on a player that has NOT been given an opportunity to produce on the field. Hixon has, and didn't. So I will pass judgment on his pitiful numbers. Because again, there aren't many tangibles at the WR position, stats is about all you can look at.

 

Pitiful? This is like a flashback to the days of Ike Hilliard! Get some perspective man, 60 catches at about 14 yards per & a couple TDs is about an average NFL starting WR. If all our receivers could produce like that we'd be in pretty good shape.

 

And I love stats, but stats don't begin to tell the entire story with WRs (or any other position for that matter). For example, by many measurements, the Giants passing game improved when Plaxico went out. Seems crazy right? Well, its very true...Hixon's 2008 individual receiving stats were by every per-play measure (except TDs, which are mostly a function of opportunity...as you know, Plax was force-fed goal line reps), were better than Plax's, and overall the Giants passing game improved after Plax went out (according to FootballOutsiders.com's proprietary stats). So why did the offense play so much worse overall without Plax? Well, the answers are pretty obvious, but you won't find it by looking at stats, including TDs. So don't try to tell us stats are all we can look at. Blocking matters. Defensive alignments matter. Thats where Plax hurt us. Raw passing stats won't tell you that.

 

 

And just because Moss is a couple inches shorter DOES NOT mean he doesn't possess more physical skills than Hixon. Or should I be more John Madden for you and call them "football skills". Moss not only runs better routes, but he's quicker off the line, cuts better, and is far more under control with his speed. Excepting, obviously, when he's returning punts.

 

I really wish I've seen the same Sinorce Moss that you have. I don't know man, I hope you're right about him. Taking height out of it, I think Moss has more raw talent than any WR on the Giants. Unfortunately it seems to end at his neck because once the ball gets in his hands its like he's never played the game in his life.

[Storm]

but isnt that also what youre doing?

 

No, I'm reserving judgment and basing observations on how good he was in college and in brief glimpses of seeing him on the field. Not to mention the fact he scored as many touchdowns as Hixon without a single start and playing in 6 games less than Hixon.

[Storm]

Save the sarcasm for when its relevant...those aren't 'great' numbers, obviously...but they're pretty good. Our problem isn't with too much Hixon...we just need someone else to step up.

 

And like it or not, we're going to be comparing whoever our #1 is to Plaxico for at least the next couple years. So get used to it, its going to get real old, real fast.

 

 

 

 

Very true.

 

 

 

Pitiful? This is like a flashback to the days of Ike Hilliard! Get some perspective man, 60 catches at about 14 yards per & a couple TDs is about an average NFL starting WR. If all our receivers could produce like that we'd be in pretty good shape.

 

And I love stats, but stats don't begin to tell the entire story with WRs (or any other position for that matter). For example, by many measurements, the Giants passing game improved when Plaxico went out. Seems crazy right? Well, its very true...Hixon's 2008 individual receiving stats were by every per-play measure (except TDs, which are mostly a function of opportunity...as you know, Plax was force-fed goal line reps), were better than Plax's, and overall the Giants passing game improved after Plax went out (according to FootballOutsiders.com's proprietary stats). So why did the offense play so much worse overall without Plax? Well, the answers are pretty obvious, but you won't find it by looking at stats, including TDs. So don't try to tell us stats are all we can look at. Blocking matters. Defensive alignments matter. Thats where Plax hurt us. Raw passing stats won't tell you that.

 

 

 

 

I really wish I've seen the same Sinorce Moss that you have. I don't know man, I hope you're right about him. Taking height out of it, I think Moss has more raw talent than any WR on the Giants. Unfortunately it seems to end at his neck because once the ball gets in his hands its like he's never played the game in his life.

 

I believe it's Nemesis that claims Ike Hilliard was a good WR. Not me. Because he certainly didn't put up good stats, even for a number 2. Call me spoiled by Burress and Toomer.

 

And see, I recall that Plaxico had, for every 1 goal line rep or TD scored, he had 2 20+ yard TDs. In fact, I don't remember a lot of fade routes working for us (the go to Plaxico Burress play). I remember a lot of B Jake for goal line TDs. I remember times where Jacobs took 3 carries to get it in. I don't however, remember many fades to Burress being successful. I wish I could find the stats for inside the 10 yard line TDs...I bet they are a lot different than you think...it was either Boss or B Jake. I'm just saying this to put into perspective that though he was a big target, we tended to run more inside the 10 than anything and Burress created a lot more of his touchdowns by his route running and height advantage down the field than he did with a shortened field. Hixon should have been able to do the same with his speed (instead of height)...but you're right, Hixon isn't a good goal line target...and I must admit, Moss I'm sure isn't, Manningham probably isn't, etc. I would however, give the ball to Steve Smith inside the 10 though, he's got great hands and the uncanny ability to slip under any coverage and get open.

 

But yes, raw talent is what I meant by physical skill. And to let you know, I am not arguing for Moss to replace Hixon, I just believe that Moss should be on the roster aside from just let go to join the countless ranks of former Giants WR who never got reps and ended up being successful elsewhere. Release Tyree and Hagen, Hagen is a scrub...Tyree is good but at this point, we've replaced his special teams contributions even, with guys like Terrell Thomas and Zak Deossie.

[Tempest]

Oh dear lord you are talking about Sinorice Moss...

 

It was uncle Ernie's going away present to us. A really really fast guy who could play football if he was healthy or versatile. He is not this really great player that hasn't made it on to the field on gameday. He is a track star playing football with football players which is why he does not make it on the field.

 

He had bust written all over him before and after the draft.

[Storm]

Oh dear lord you are talking about Sinorice Moss...

 

It was uncle Ernie's going away present to us. A really really fast guy who could play football if he was healthy or versatile. He is not this really great player that hasn't made it on to the field on gameday. He is a track star playing football with football players which is why he does not make it on the field.

 

He had bust written all over him before and after the draft.

 

Nice argument, lol.

[BIGBLUE01]

Help me out here. I NEVER miss a Giant game. So, how did I miss all these years and games where Hixon was our #1 receiver. I hear all the time where Moss hasnt had the opportunity but Hixon had plenty of opportunities to show he's a number 1 WR. When did that happen? i remember him getting playing time in SEA and AZ when Plax was hurt, and he played very well. Other than that, it was an emergency thrust to the top spot in the final 5 games when Plax shot himself. Thats maybe a game or 2 more than Sinorice. How did we arrive at hixon not being a #1? I think he'll be a fine #1.

[Storm]

Help me out here. I NEVER miss a Giant game. So, how did I miss all these years and games where Hixon was our #1 receiver. I hear all the time where Moss hasnt had the opportunity but Hixon had plenty of opportunities to show he's a number 1 WR. When did that happen? i remember him getting playing time in SEA and AZ when Plax was hurt, and he played very well. Other than that, it was an emergency thrust to the top spot in the final 5 games when Plax shot himself. Thats maybe a game or 2 more than Sinorice. How did we arrive at hixon not being a #1? I think he'll be a fine #1.

 

He started 7 games, Burress was suspended for detrimental conduct to the team and later missed a game with a hamstring injury....

 

And Moss only appeared in 10 games, Hixon, all 16.

 

Moss had like 14 catches in 2 TDs way down the depth chart.

[BIGBLUE01]

He started 7 games, Burress was suspended for detrimental conduct to the team and later missed a game with a hamstring injury....

 

And Moss only appeared in 10 games, Hixon, all 16.

 

Moss had like 14 catches in 2 TDs way down the depth chart.

 

And Hixon had 1 TD? I mean, that would make Moss' #'s better I guess, but thats not significant enough to me to that Moss has shown something that Hixon hasnt. Honestly, Im taking your word for it, but I dont remember ever seeing moss score a TD. The only memory I have of him is running backwards behind the 1st down. Im sure youre right, but Ive seen Hixon make some great plays, as well as some drops unfortunately.

[Storm]

And Hixon had 1 TD? I mean, that would make Moss' #'s better I guess, but thats not significant enough to me to that Moss has shown something that Hixon hasnt. Honestly, Im taking your word for it, but I dont remember ever seeing moss score a TD. The only memory I have of him is running backwards behind the 1st down. Im sure youre right, but Ive seen Hixon make some great plays, as well as some drops unfortunately.

 

Yah, Hixon only had one as a starter. Two on the season. The one TD Hixon made that's on the Manning highlight is sick though, I must say.

 

Check out the link of Eli's passing highlights from 2008, Moss is in it, maybe both times he got 6, IDK...

[Allstarjim]

I think the depth chart shakes out like this...

 

Hixon

Smith

Manningham

Barden

Hicks

Tyree

 

I think Tyree makes it for specials, and the team might keep 4 "TEs"...Beckham will eventually start getting reps as a Dallas Clark style TE/slot WR tweener.

 

First , let me get this out of the way. This is beginning to be my new pet peeve. CD, I'm not trying to pick on you, because a lot of people are doing it, and it's annoying. His name is Hakeem NICKS. He is our first round draft pick. His name is not HICKS.

 

Now, on to Sinorice Moss. This is his 4th year. What have we gotten out of him for his first 3 seasons? About nothing. His best season so far was 21 receptions. And for a career (a whopping 38 catches) he only averages 10.6 yards per reception, which sucks for a supposed speedster. He has proven every year that he is fragile. That happens when you are 5'8" and only 180 pounds (if he's even that), playing with a bunch of guys who weigh 200 pounds plus, falling on you and hitting you. He happens to be extremely fast. But here's what he can't do:

 

1) He can't hold up to the rigors of a full season, and probably wouldn't even if the season was only 10 games long.

2) He can't play on specials in any capacity whatsoever except maybe emergency kickoff returner.

3) He can't physically beat a corner in press coverage, he must soley rely on his speed.

4) He cannot go over the middle.

5) He cannot be a #1 or #2 wide receiver in any offense in the NFL due to his size, this is never going to change.

6) He cannot win a fight in the air for a poorly thrown ball.

7) He cannot block for other ball carriers one iota.

 

We know Moss is fast. But it's not enough. Because of his size, he is too small a target for Eli to consistently be able to hit. He runs away from contact, even if that means running backwards. He must get clear separation every time. It's not just the height problem, it's the reach as well. He has a 5'8" person's arm length as well. Physically, this puts him at a tremendous disadvantage against bigger corners. His game worked in college because he was the fastest player on the field usually BY FAR. In the NFL, the players are faster. Maybe not as fast as him, but fast enough to not let him get going with the football.

 

All this dude can do is run deep routes and maybe an end around or two or a screen pass.

 

When you look at the other players in our receiving corps, you have:

 

Hixon

Smith

Manningham

Barden

Nicks

 

None of those guys are going anywhere. Smith was our leading receiver last year, and is the most veteran out of the group. He will be on the field the most, more than likely, than any of the above. Hixon currently holds the #1 spot, by necessity/default. Since we know Moss will never be a #1 receiver, it's pointless to even consider him as a possibility to ever fill that role. Now, Manningham has played well this camp and preseason. He has been healthy pretty much the entire camp, and has been consistently good. He is a little bigger. Some will say that he's only 3 inches taller than Moss, but those three inches can mean a lot when you figure in the reach, too. I would say that it is very likely that Manningham is the "slot" guy or third receiver to start the season.

 

Barden and Nicks are both in the same boat. They are rookies and definitely not going anywhere. They both have huge potential and have the size and other strong attributes you want in a #1 receiver. The two of them could be our starting WRs by the end of next year and it would surprise no one.

 

Given all this information, where does Moss fit? He's not your #1 or #2, he's not your slot guy, and he's not your future. So if he's going to be a 4th or 5th WR, shouldn't he be contributing on special teams? Except he can't do that, either. Then you have this other guy, Tyree, who is a veteran and is a special teams guru, but you can't give him your #6 receiver job because you want to keep this other guy because he's really fast but will not be all those things I mentioned above? Even Hagan would make more sense than retaining Moss.

 

And wouldn't it be nice for our highly touted rookies to have an opportunity every now and again to be able to show what they can do, because we really need to see that if they are our future starters and we know that they probably are. And isn't it going to be harder to do that with the little guy ahead of them on the depth chart whose sole purpose is to maybe get on the field if Manningham gets banged up? Wouldn't you rather see Nicks (the Anquan Boldin clone) get in there and do that to see what we have?

 

Lastly with Moss, consider what kind of QB we have and the kind of weather we typically play in. If Moss is in the game late in the season and the wind is blowing, do you trust that Eli is going to be able to perfectly throw the ball in to him every time? Because that is what he needs, is a perfectly thrown ball because of his lack of reach and size. If you consider that Plax was Eli's go to guy because he could just throw it up there and Plax would come down with it because he was such a big target with long arms... then Moss is the antithesis of that. He has to put it in there perfectly where only the little guy can reach it. He is not the kind of receiver that pairs well with our QB or our weather in the northeast.

 

What Moss should be is a third down RB for a dome team, but instead we have him, and we don't need another running back. Moss simply doesn't fit on this team right now, and he doesn't fit in the future.

 

Now, on to Hixon. The same people that are so psyched about Moss' potential and what he can do are the guys that bury Hixon. But Hixon was drafted in the SAME draft class as Moss. And what have we gotten out of Hixon? An exceptional kick returner, and 43 catches last season, more than Moss in his entire "career." Hixon was only a 4th round pick. Hixon went on IR his rookie year. He never got a chance in his second season with Denver other than returning kicks, so we got him that same year. Last year is the first time he ever had meaningful playing time in an offense since he's been in the NFL. So why isn't he considered as having the same or more potential as Moss? At least he's performed! The guy very well could build off of what essentially was his first exposure to being a significant cog in an NFL offense. He can very easily be a good producer for us this year.

 

I'm not saying Hixon should be our #1 receiver. I don't even think he should be. But he's better than Moss, and he's the best we got until we can hand that job to Nicks or Barden. So Hixon is Mr. Right Now, and I have a lot more faith that Eli can make it work with him than I would Moss.

 

Moss was a terrible pick in that 2006 draft. There were a lot of guys in the second round that EA could've taken that still would be productive players in for us today. Devin Hester was taken after him, Greg Jennings, Jeremy Trueblood, Darryl Tapp, Tony Scheffler, Maurice Jones-Drew, Anthony Fasano, Marcus McNeil, and LenDale White... all guys that were taken in the 2nd round after Moss.

 

Moss... he's not our guy right now, and he's not our future guy. So what guy is he? He's the mother-in-law of wide receivers, he won't leave, but you really wish he would. I really hope you Moss supporters finally see that if all he is going to be for us is a 4th WR or lower, than at least he should produce on special teams, which oh by the way is pretty important in football. So lose this injury-prone, 3rd down running back disguised as a receiver ASAP!

[fishgutmartyr]

I believe it's Nemesis that claims Ike Hilliard was a good WR. Not me. Because he certainly didn't put up good stats, even for a number 2. Call me spoiled by Burress and Toomer.

 

And see, I recall that Plaxico had, for every 1 goal line rep or TD scored, he had 2 20+ yard TDs. In fact, I don't remember a lot of fade routes working for us (the go to Plaxico Burress play). I remember a lot of B Jake for goal line TDs. I remember times where Jacobs took 3 carries to get it in. I don't however, remember many fades to Burress being successful. I wish I could find the stats for inside the 10 yard line TDs...I bet they are a lot different than you think...it was either Boss or B Jake. I'm just saying this to put into perspective that though he was a big target, we tended to run more inside the 10 than anything and Burress created a lot more of his touchdowns by his route running and height advantage down the field than he did with a shortened field. Hixon should have been able to do the same with his speed (instead of height)...but you're right, Hixon isn't a good goal line target...and I must admit, Moss I'm sure isn't, Manningham probably isn't, etc. I would however, give the ball to Steve Smith inside the 10 though, he's got great hands and the uncanny ability to slip under any coverage and get open.

 

But yes, raw talent is what I meant by physical skill. And to let you know, I am not arguing for Moss to replace Hixon, I just believe that Moss should be on the roster aside from just let go to join the countless ranks of former Giants WR who never got reps and ended up being successful elsewhere. Release Tyree and Hagen, Hagen is a scrub...Tyree is good but at this point, we've replaced his special teams contributions even, with guys like Terrell Thomas and Zak Deossie.

Countless ranks? Patten, McCaffrey, and Galloway aren't exactly countless. Especially over a 20-year span. It's more like we don't draft high for receivers often, and when we do, we don't do it well. Hopefully this changes with this recent draft.

 

We drafted Moss on unrealized potential from Miami . We also drafted him too high. We're still at unrealized potential 4 years later--and I don't see any reason to think that's changing anytime soon.

 

These are his stats at Miami:

SINORICE MOSS STATS Receiving

Statistics No Yds Avg TD

2005 37 614 16.6 6

2004 20 351 17.6 3

2003 8 111 13.9 0

2002 3 30 10.0 0

Career 68 1,106 16.3 9

 

To me, it looks like it took him 4 years to accumulate the stats you would expect in a single season from a high second-rounder. His value, IMO, was over-inflated due to a perceived weak WR class.

[NightFire]

I believe it's Nemesis that claims Ike Hilliard was a good WR.

 

Don't let Nemisis read this or he'll shit his pants. Hell couple that with calling Finn the best FB the Giants have ever had you could get banned.

[Storm]

Countless ranks? Patten, McCaffrey, and Galloway aren't exactly countless. Especially over a 20-year span. It's more like we don't draft high for receivers often, and when we do, we don't do it well. Hopefully this changes with this recent draft.

 

We drafted Moss on unrealized potential from Miami . We also drafted him too high. We're still at unrealized potential 4 years later--and I don't see any reason to think that's changing anytime soon.

 

These are his stats at Miami:

SINORICE MOSS STATS Receiving

Statistics No Yds Avg TD

2005 37 614 16.6 6

2004 20 351 17.6 3

2003 8 111 13.9 0

2002 3 30 10.0 0

Career 68 1,106 16.3 9

 

To me, it looks like it took him 4 years to accumulate the stats you would expect in a single season from a high second-rounder. His value, IMO, was over-inflated due to a perceived weak WR class.

 

Jurevicius and Hilliard both had better careers with the Bucs...I don't count Hilliard though.

 

Then players like Thomas Lewis never really got a chance and fell off the map. But you're right the Giants seem to be pretty awful at developing wide receivers in general. And it's not for lack of trying, I saw many second and first round WRs on the list I just looked at...

 

And I know you meant Calloway.

[Allstarjim]

Countless ranks? Patten, McCaffrey, and Galloway aren't exactly countless. Especially over a 20-year span. It's more like we don't draft high for receivers often, and when we do, we don't do it well. Hopefully this changes with this recent draft.

 

We drafted Moss on unrealized potential from Miami . We also drafted him too high. We're still at unrealized potential 4 years later--and I don't see any reason to think that's changing anytime soon.

 

These are his stats at Miami:

SINORICE MOSS STATS Receiving

Statistics No Yds Avg TD

2005 37 614 16.6 6

2004 20 351 17.6 3

2003 8 111 13.9 0

2002 3 30 10.0 0

Career 68 1,106 16.3 9

 

To me, it looks like it took him 4 years to accumulate the stats you would expect in a single season from a high second-rounder. His value, IMO, was over-inflated due to a perceived weak WR class.

 

Seeing those stats makes me want to slap EA silly. EA YOU IMGRATE!

[Tempest]

Uncle Ernie was looking at his 40 speed. Guess he thought we could teach Sinorice how to catch...

 

Seeing those stats makes me want to slap EA silly. EA YOU IMGRATE!

[CrazedDogs]

First , let me get this out of the way. This is beginning to be my new pet peeve. CD, I'm not trying to pick on you, because a lot of people are doing it, and it's annoying. His name is Hakeem NICKS. He is our first round draft pick. His name is not HICKS.

 

LOL...oh dude, I've gotten on people for that, and now I'm doing the same damn thing. The mind is the first thing to go...

 

Now, on to Sinorice Moss...

 

wow...I think we've found another of your pet peeves, lol.

[fringe]

I believe it's Nemesis that claims Ike Hilliard was a good WR. Not me. Because he certainly didn't put up good stats, even for a number 2. Call me spoiled by Burress and Toomer.

 

compared to moss, hilliard is jerry rice.

[Allstarjim]

Jurevicius and Hilliard both had better careers with the Bucs...I don't count Hilliard though.

 

Then players like Thomas Lewis never really got a chance and fell off the map. But you're right the Giants seem to be pretty awful at developing wide receivers in general. And it's not for lack of trying, I saw many second and first round WRs on the list I just looked at...

 

And I know you meant Calloway.

 

We actually got the best years out of Hilliard before letting him walk. He hasn't done a heckuva lot in Tampa.

 

Jurevicous was realizing his potential other places, but would always seem to get hurt, derailing a lot of his seasons. He had one great season in Seattle where he caught 10 TD's, but even then he didn't pile up a lot of receptions and yards. I liked him, though... he was a big target with good hands.

[Allstarjim]

wow...I think we've found another of your pet peeves, lol.

 

Judging by the lack of response on my post I think I made a pretty definitive case. Moss should not be on this team. But, because he's the "bubble gum on the bottom of your shoe" of wide receivers, he will once again, inexplicably, flying in the face of all common sense and rationale, find a way to stick with the team one more year. And I guarantee... if I'm right about him making this team... that this will be (mercifully) his last year with the Giants.

 

The cost of keeping him? David Tyree... a high character, high work ethic guy, who is a special teams stud and Super Bowl hero. This has bad juju written all over it if they release him.

 

Unfortunately, from what I read, Tyree did not have a great camp. He's had a case of the dropsies. But he would still be light years better than Moss, whose contributions will be next to nothing this year.