OH GOD

[fishgutmartyr]

I agree about the field position, and in weather like Sunday it's important. But I think you're completely ignoring the fact we came into this game leading the league in rushing. The wind plays no factor in running the football. You know this, I know this, the Eagles know it (they ran the ball 41 times), but Gil completely ignores it in favor of a 'balanced attack'.

The offense also has some responsibility in field position. If they don't move the ball, we give the opposing offense better field position. You should care where the first downs came from. While they helped us move the ball in the first half, it wasn't something we could count on in the second.

I can't help but wonder why the Eagles could move the ball against our better defense, while our better offense couldn't against their def. The wind? ofcourse. But both teams had to factor that in, and only one team adjusted to it with more running and less deep passing. What matters in the end is what was on the scoreboard. While we held Philly more than 6 pts below their season avg, we couldn't put up the 20+ they've been allowing everyone else.

 

Yes, running is essential in a game like this. They stopped our running game; we didn't. Westbrook ran for 133 yards on us. Jacobs ran for 52 in 10 carries, with one run for 23: the other nine averaged 4.3, then he was done for the day. Ward (8 for 39, with 15 coming in one run) and Bradshaw (5 for 9) were worse. Unfortunately, we also stopped our passing game with critical drops. Our execution simply sucked on both sides of the ball.

 

Even still, we were not going three and out every possession. In fact, there were multiple times where we had significant drives. If we were in better starting positions, maybe those would have resulted in points.

 

And once again, you're feeding me averages per game. Averages that reflect decent weather all Sept/Oct/Nov. Domed stadiums. What do they mean under conditions like Sunday?

 

 

It's funny to me, that your prime example of our defensive ineptitude is the first drive of the 3rd qtr. A drive that ended with ZERO pts for the Eagles. If we had been able to score one more TD, we'd all be talking about how huge it was for the defense to stop that drive when it did, force the fg, and for the ST's to block it.

 

We had the wind at our backs, and it was essential to score some points in that quarter, rather than fight the elements along with the Eagles in the 4th. Instead, seven minutes had already passed before we even touched the ball on offense. They already had the lead, they did EXACTLY what they needed to do in the third quarter, which was to keep our offense off of the field as much as possible. Points would have been a bonus. Crowing about how our defense "held" them on our own 16 yard-line is ridiculous.

 

Do I want to run on every first down? No. I want to run 90% to set up 2nd and short instead of 2nd and long (not to meantion a much more effective pass now and then). Feasible considering our run game don't you think? That is what a run first team does, and that's what this team was built for.

 

I'd question whether or not we're set up as a run-first team. The 86 and 90 Giants--those were run-first teams. This team has plenty of options in the passing game. Even our Oline is designed to do both: compare it to the 90 line, and you'll see what I mean. We just happen to have a very strong running game.

 

On second and short you can do anything without worry. A deep pass attempt still leaves you at 3rd and short.

Do I want to pass on every 2nd and long? No. But it is the smart play, and it should be at least 60/40 pass. And those particular 2nd down plays I spoke of left us in 3rd and long situations every single time.

 

Fine, except if we run on first down, gain 4 yards, and then Manning throws an incompletion, you guys are still going to complain because "the run was working." Gilbride can't win.

 

I have no problem giving Spags some blame here. I didn't even create this thread (about Gil) or any other.

Spags, IMO, is to blame for the two TD's. The defense itself looked like pop warner when trying to tackle. But the simple fact the defense and ST's kept us in the game, and we couldn't score 14 pts, even with the gift vs prevent.

 

Spags is to blame in the same way Gilbride is in that neither had a particularly effective game plan this time around. But it was execution that completely failed in this one, and if you guys blame Gilbride for that, then blame Spags as well.

 

[Nesta]

Yes, running is essential in a game like this. They stopped our running game; we didn't. Westbrook ran for 133 yards on us. Jacobs ran for 52 in 10 carries, with one run for 23: the other nine averaged 4.3, then he was done for the day. Ward (8 for 39, with 15 coming in one run) and Bradshaw (5 for 9) were worse. Unfortunately, we also stopped our passing game with critical drops. Our execution simply sucked on both sides of the ball.

 

Even still, we were not going three and out every possession. In fact, there were multiple times where we had significant drives. If we were in better starting positions, maybe those would have resulted in points.

 

And once again, you're feeding me averages per game. Averages that reflect decent weather all Sept/Oct/Nov. Domed stadiums. What do they mean under conditions like Sunday?

 

They stopped our running game? I disagree. Last time I checked 3 carries for 4+ yards equals first down.

If you want to pick and choose which runs you're going to count, let's do the same to Westbrook. Take away his longest run and he had exactly 3ypc. Even if you add it back in he had 3.9. That didn't keep Reid from giving him the ball 33 times. By this logic they should've given up on Westbrook when he was 9 carries for 24 yards in the first half.

 

 

We had the wind at our backs, and it was essential to score some points in that quarter, rather than fight the elements along with the Eagles in the 4th. Instead, seven minutes had already passed before we even touched the ball on offense. They already had the lead, they did EXACTLY what they needed to do in the third quarter, which was to keep our offense off of the field as much as possible. Points would have been a bonus. Crowing about how our defense "held" them on our own 16 yard-line is ridiculous.

 

Yeah so why didn't we score some points? We had half of the quarter remaining when we first touched the ball. Is it inconceiveable to you that this offense is capable of long drives? Even in windy weather? I don't believe at all that you really feel that way.

Crowing? Now you're reaching. I said we gave the offense opportunities. We also turned a potential 28 pts into 6 (ST and DEF). How many pts did we lose by?

 

I'd question whether or not we're set up as a run-first team. The 86 and 90 Giants--those were run-first teams. This team has plenty of options in the passing game. Even our Oline is designed to do both: compare it to the 90 line, and you'll see what I mean. We just happen to have a very strong running game.

 

Fair enough. They're not road graters. They're finesse. They get on the edges and block as well as anyone in the league. But would you deny that the run game is our strength?

 

Fine, except if we run on first down, gain 4 yards, and then Manning throws an incompletion, you guys are still going to complain because "the run was working." Gilbride can't win.

 

If compaints bother you, you're a fan of the wrong team. I remember just last year a complaint that Eli's game winning touchdown vs Chicago was too low. I won't name names. Personally I wouldn't complain about that. Like I already said, 60/40 would suit me. That's fairly balanced considering we're talking 2nd and 10.

 

 

 

Spags is to blame in the same way Gilbride is in that neither had a particularly effective game plan this time around. But it was execution that completely failed in this one, and if you guys blame Gilbride for that, then blame Spags as well.

 

I thought I did lay some blame on Spags.

There's a difference between the two though. Gilbride has a long history of abandoning the run for the pass. He started long before he got here. I do agree with gateb that he has been much better this year, but that's my primary complaint from this game. Gilbride is also getting credit for making a great offense look good, the same offense that was leading the league in scoring under Huffnagel for half a season. I'll give him some of the credit. He deserves it, but we are much more talented on that side of the ball.

Spags is completely responsible for turning around our defense. Aside from our line, there's much less talent there and he's made them a defensive juggernaut. So yeah maybe he gets a longer leash in the complaints department.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fishgutmartyr]

They stopped our running game? I disagree. Last time I checked 3 carries for 4+ yards equals first down.

If you want to pick and choose which runs you're going to count, let's do the same to Westbrook. Take away his longest run and he had exactly 3ypc. Even if you add it back in he had 3.9. That didn't keep Reid from giving him the ball 33 times. By this logic they should've given up on Westbrook when he was 9 carries for 24 yards in the first half.

 

Jacobs left the game 2 plays into the 3rd quarter. That leaves you with what? 3.6 yards/carry the rest of the way. Left the 15 yarder in that 3.6 figure as well. But keep in mind that the long runs do skew the average for the rest of the runs, and therefore the average won't show how inconsistent the running actually was.

 

We wound up running 23 times, behind all the way, with much less time. We passed 27 times, 7 of which came in that final drive. For the other part of the game 23/20. Where is the abandoned rush?

 

Eagles, in the lead, rushed 41 times, passed 30. Since they had the lead, you would expect more rushing downs, to eat up the clock. And that also includes McNabb running on busted pass plays. He was given 5 rushes.

 

Yeah so why didn't we score some points? We had half of the quarter remaining when we first touched the ball. Is it inconceiveable to you that this offense is capable of long drives? Even in windy weather? I don't believe at all that you really feel that way.

Crowing? Now you're reaching. I said we gave the offense opportunities. We also turned a potential 28 pts into 6 (ST and DEF). How many pts did we lose by?

 

You're killing me, bud. :lol: We moved the ball 21 yards on our ONLY possession. We got it back to our 45, because we started so damn far back. If they had held Philly to a 3 and out, we're talking about a punt into the wind, and probably starting that same possession around our 45. Suddenly, those same 21 yards take on another meaning. Especially with the wind to our backs.

 

Probably 3 points there, and plenty of time to score additional points in the third quarter.

 

That's why that Philly drive frustrates me.

 

Fair enough. They're not road graters. They're finesse. They get on the edges and block as well as anyone in the league. But would you deny that the run game is our strength?

 

I would say that our strength is that when we are hitting on all cylinders, we can do whatever we want. I'd say that the fact that we've stuck with the run to the tune of multiple 200+ yard games flies in the face of the argument against Gilbride that he abandons the run.

 

 

If compaints bother you, you're a fan of the wrong team. I remember just last year a complaint that Eli's game winning touchdown vs Chicago was too low. I won't name names. Personally I wouldn't complain about that. Like I already said, 60/40 would suit me. That's fairly balanced considering we're talking 2nd and 10.

 

If I don't have something to complain about, I'm miserable. I'm with the right team.

 

I thought I did lay some blame on Spags.

There's a difference between the two though. Gilbride has a long history of abandoning the run for the pass. He started long before he got here. I do agree with gateb that he has been much better this year, but that's my primary complaint from this game. Gilbride is also getting credit for making a great offense look good, the same offense that was leading the league in scoring under Huffnagel for half a season. I'll give him some of the credit. He deserves it, but we are much more talented on that side of the ball.

Spags is completely responsible for turning around our defense. Aside from our line, there's much less talent there and he's made them a defensive juggernaut. So yeah maybe he gets a longer leash in the complaints department.

 

Gilbride has a reputation for abandoning the run. Hell, I wanted his head on a pike last year for that Redskins game. But you really can't say that this year. And I wonder how much of that was blow-back from Hufnagel anyway. A lot of us were pissed we kept him at the start of last season, and I'm not sure we ever gave him a fair shake.

 

Our secondary is pretty damn talented. But Spags was the guy that actually knew how to use that talent, so yeah, you're right.

[Nesta]

Jacobs left the game 2 plays into the 3rd quarter. That leaves you with what? 3.6 yards/carry the rest of the way. Left the 15 yarder in that 3.6 figure as well. But keep in mind that the long runs do skew the average for the rest of the runs, and therefore the average won't show how inconsistent the running actually was.

 

We wound up running 23 times, behind all the way, with much less time. We passed 27 times, 7 of which came in that final drive. For the other part of the game 23/20. Where is the abandoned rush?

 

Eagles, in the lead, rushed 41 times, passed 30. Since they had the lead, you would expect more rushing downs, to eat up the clock. And that also includes McNabb running on busted pass plays. He was given 5 rushes.

 

Ward was having a decent game fish. He was one yard shy of 5ypc. Unless you want to subtract his longest run as well.

 

Yeah maybe we didn't abandon the rush per se, but the weather conditions called for more than a balanced attack.

 

You're killing me, bud. :lol: We moved the ball 21 yards on our ONLY possession. We got it back to our 45, because we started so damn far back. If they had held Philly to a 3 and out, we're talking about a punt into the wind, and probably starting that same possession around our 45. Suddenly, those same 21 yards take on another meaning. Especially with the wind to our backs.

 

My intention is not to kill you, but to disagree. Respectfully.

We started that drive from our 24. Something we've done successfully many times. I just don't see how the defense is to blame for our inability to move the ball that drive or others. We got one first down, then on 3rd and 3 pass protection broke down once again. Are we so spoiled by the play of our defense that we must have a short field to score? Ifs and buts fish. If our Defense had scored one pick 6 we would've won. If our offense could've put together any semblance of a drive, we would've won. If the football gods were indeed good, we would've won.

The ifs didn't happen. What happened was we blew another opportunity to score pts.

 

 

I would say that our strength is that when we are hitting on all cylinders, we can do whatever we want. I'd say that the fact that we've stuck with the run to the tune of multiple 200+ yard games flies in the face of the argument against Gilbride that he abandons the run.

 

You're right about Gilbride this year, and I've already acknowledged that. We're actually running more than passing. Which I like.

I would describe a strength as something you can almost always count on fish. Not something that needs a caveat like 'when we are hitting on all cylinders'. The strength of the O is running. The strength of the team is defense.

But that's just my opinion.

 

Gilbride has a reputation for abandoning the run. Hell, I wanted his head on a pike last year for that Redskins game. But you really can't say that this year. And I wonder how much of that was blow-back from Hufnagel anyway. A lot of us were pissed we kept him at the start of last season, and I'm not sure we ever gave him a fair shake.

 

Our secondary is pretty damn talented. But Spags was the guy that actually knew how to use that talent, so yeah, you're right.

 

I think he earned that reputation. But again, he has been coming around.

[Allstarjim]

Both of you make good points, but to say that one side of the ball is to blame more than the other is foolhardy. I think our offense is not that special when Jacobs is not in there, and I think that our offensive and defensive lines are not playing as well as they were earlier in the year because they are banged up and tired. This is crazy. Philly has a good defense, too, especially against the run. To say, though, that our defense did its job when the Eagles hold the ball for 7 minutes on one drive, regardless of if the came away with points, is just crazy.

 

The Giants needed to catch a couple more passes, the O-line needed to block better, and the defense needed to play a LOT better. But Gilbride's playcalling was not the problem in this game. Not one iota.

[fishgutmartyr]

Ward was having a decent game fish. He was one yard shy of 5ypc. Unless you want to subtract his longest run as well.

 

1-10-NYG 15 (4:31) 34-D.Ward right guard to NYG 24 for 9 yards (58-T.Cole, 95-V.Abiamiri).

2-1-NYG 24 (3:52) 34-D.Ward left end to NYG 23 for -1 yards (56-A.Jordan, 58-T.Cole).

2-10-NYG 48 (13:05) 34-D.Ward right tackle to 50 for 2 yards (98-M.Patterson). FUMBLES (98-M.Patterson), recovered by NYG-66-D.Diehl at PHI 46. 66-D.Diehl to PHI 46 for no gain (58-T.Cole).

1-10-NYG 36 (1:46) (Shotgun) 34-D.Ward up the middle to PHI 49 for 15 yards (20-B.Dawkins, 27-Q.Mikell).

2-5-PHI 44 (1:20) 34-D.Ward up the middle to PHI 42 for 2 yards (56-A.Jordan).

--Jacobs goes out--

3-1-NYG 33 (6:54) 34-D.Ward right guard to NYG 38 for 5 yards (27-Q.Mikell, 55-S.Bradley).

1-10-NYG 38 (6:22) 34-D.Ward left end to NYG 39 for 1 yard (56-A.Jordan).

2-9-NYG 39 (5:30) (Shotgun) 34-D.Ward right guard to NYG 45 for 6 yards (20-B.Dawkins).

1-10-NYG 30 (2:04) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short middle to 34-D.Ward to NYG 32 for 2 yards (91-C.Clemons).

Two-Minute Warning

 

He was very erratic, Nesta. He either got 5 or more, or 2 or less. Bradshaw was simply abysmal.

 

 

Yeah maybe we didn't abandon the rush per se, but the weather conditions called for more than a balanced attack.

 

 

 

My intention is not to kill you, but to disagree. Respectfully.

 

Same here.

 

We started that drive from our 24. Something we've done successfully many times. I just don't see how the defense is to blame for our inability to move the ball that drive or others. We got one first down, then on 3rd and 3 pass protection broke down once again. Are we so spoiled by the play of our defense that we must have a short field to score?

 

Are we so spoiled by our offense that we expect them to drive 76 yds at will? In any condition? And they only need one shot at it?

 

They were left with a single opportunity to score in that quarter, and it was one where we would have had to drive down most of the field. We needed a stop much earlier in the Philly drive, not to keep them from scoring, but to give the offense more than one opportunity. Or at least a stop in their second drive. I don't know how many different ways I can explain this to you.

 

We had 3 possessions the entire half. We scored on one (Ironically, that one was done entirely by passing ). Scoring 2/3 possessions against a good defense is a tall order under any circumstance, so it would have been nice to get the ball in the offense's hands a little more than that.

 

Ifs and buts fish. If our Defense had scored one pick 6 we would've won. If our offense could've put together any semblance of a drive, we would've won. If the football gods were indeed good, we would've won.

The ifs didn't happen. What happened was we blew another opportunity to score pts.

 

You're right about Gilbride this year, and I've already acknowledged that. We're actually running more than passing. Which I like.

I would describe a strength as something you can almost always count on fish. Not something that needs a caveat like 'when we are hitting on all cylinders'. The strength of the O is running. The strength of the team is defense.

But that's just my opinion.

 

I think he earned that reputation. But again, he has been coming around.

 

[fishgutmartyr]

Both of you make good points, but to say that one side of the ball is to blame more than the other is foolhardy. I think our offense is not that special when Jacobs is not in there, and I think that our offensive and defensive lines are not playing as well as they were earlier in the year because they are banged up and tired. This is crazy. Philly has a good defense, too, especially against the run. To say, though, that our defense did its job when the Eagles hold the ball for 7 minutes on one drive, regardless of if the came away with points, is just crazy.

 

The Giants needed to catch a couple more passes, the O-line needed to block better, and the defense needed to play a LOT better. But Gilbride's playcalling was not the problem in this game. Not one iota.

 

Oh I'm not arguing that, Jim. The offense kept stopping itself, there's no denying that. I simply reacted to the the pitchfork and torches crowd going after Gilbride.

 

I guess that's why we lose so damn ugly: we lose as a team, and every aspect falls apart. :lol:

[Nesta]

Both of you make good points, but to say that one side of the ball is to blame more than the other is foolhardy. I think our offense is not that special when Jacobs is not in there, and I think that our offensive and defensive lines are not playing as well as they were earlier in the year because they are banged up and tired. This is crazy. Philly has a good defense, too, especially against the run. To say, though, that our defense did its job when the Eagles hold the ball for 7 minutes on one drive, regardless of if the came away with points, is just crazy.

 

The Giants needed to catch a couple more passes, the O-line needed to block better, and the defense needed to play a LOT better. But Gilbride's playcalling was not the problem in this game. Not one iota.

 

I do blame both sides of the ball Jim. Our offense was a no show, and poor defense led to the two Westbrook TD's which killed us. All I'm saying is, we were still in the game at the end due to special teams and to a lesser degree the defense.

This was not a good game to judge our offense with or without Jacobs. The Eagles just wanted the game a hell of a lot more than we did.

 

There's a huge gap between doing your job (preventing your opponent from scoring) and doing your job well (preventing your opponent from scoring by going 3 and out and giving the O good field position). I'm not trying to make a case that they played well, but that they did just enough to keep us in the game. Along with the dropped passes and the poor blocking I believe the playcalling hurt us as well. The reverse killed our first drive, and several others never got off the ground because of incompletions or drops on first down.

[Nesta]

1-10-NYG 15 (4:31) 34-D.Ward right guard to NYG 24 for 9 yards (58-T.Cole, 95-V.Abiamiri).

2-1-NYG 24 (3:52) 34-D.Ward left end to NYG 23 for -1 yards (56-A.Jordan, 58-T.Cole).

2-10-NYG 48 (13:05) 34-D.Ward right tackle to 50 for 2 yards (98-M.Patterson). FUMBLES (98-M.Patterson), recovered by NYG-66-D.Diehl at PHI 46. 66-D.Diehl to PHI 46 for no gain (58-T.Cole).

1-10-NYG 36 (1:46) (Shotgun) 34-D.Ward up the middle to PHI 49 for 15 yards (20-B.Dawkins, 27-Q.Mikell).

2-5-PHI 44 (1:20) 34-D.Ward up the middle to PHI 42 for 2 yards (56-A.Jordan).

--Jacobs goes out--

3-1-NYG 33 (6:54) 34-D.Ward right guard to NYG 38 for 5 yards (27-Q.Mikell, 55-S.Bradley).

1-10-NYG 38 (6:22) 34-D.Ward left end to NYG 39 for 1 yard (56-A.Jordan).

2-9-NYG 39 (5:30) (Shotgun) 34-D.Ward right guard to NYG 45 for 6 yards (20-B.Dawkins).

1-10-NYG 30 (2:04) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short middle to 34-D.Ward to NYG 32 for 2 yards (91-C.Clemons).

Two-Minute Warning

 

He was very erratic, Nesta. He either got 5 or more, or 2 or less. Bradshaw was simply abysmal.

 

I agree about Bradshaw, but Ward only had 8 carries. Not even time to warm up really.

Every runner in the NFL could be deemed erratic if you want to ignore his avg and/or longest runs.

 

 

 

Are we so spoiled by our offense that we expect them to drive 76 yds at will? In any condition? And they only need one shot at it?

 

They were left with a single opportunity to score in that quarter, and it was one where we would have had to drive down most of the field. We needed a stop much earlier in the Philly drive, not to keep them from scoring, but to give the offense more than one opportunity. Or at least a stop in their second drive. I don't know how many different ways I can explain this to you.

 

We had 3 possessions the entire half. We scored on one (Ironically, that one was done entirely by passing ). Scoring 2/3 possessions against a good defense is a tall order under any circumstance, so it would have been nice to get the ball in the offense's hands a little more than that.

 

I wouldn't say spoiled. I would say it's perfectly reasonable for a high caliber offense to score twice in 9 possesions. You're limiting their opportunities to this single quarter fish. There are two halves in the game. We had 6 possesions in the first and came away with nothing.

There's nothing ironic about scoring when they went to a soft prevent mode.

 

It's not that I don't understand the point you're making. It's that I do not agree. You can say it a million different ways and I'm still not going to accept that it's the defense's fault for a lack of offensive production. The worst field position we had in the game had nothing to do with defense. If you wanted to bitch about the second Eagles drive, I'm right there with you. That was 84 yards for a TD and it's the one that hurt the most.

 

And it's not that I'm putting all the blame solely on the offense. There's a lot of blame to go around. Spags for the two boneheaded playcalls resulting in td's. Coughlin for going for it on 4th down 3 times. The drops, the blocking, the arm tackles, the bad timing penalties etc.

 

[fishgutmartyr]

I wouldn't say spoiled. I would say it's perfectly reasonable for a high caliber offense to score twice in 9 possesions. You're limiting their opportunities to this single quarter fish. There are two halves in the game. We had 6 possesions in the first and came away with nothing.

 

The first half the offense couldn't get out of their own way. Then we went for it on 4th down when we should have buried them in their own side of the field. No debate there. But after we took momentum away from them at the half, we didn't really allow the offense to take advantage of it.

 

There's nothing ironic about scoring when they went to a soft prevent mode.

 

I saw some humor in it, considering this discussion.

 

It's not that I don't understand the point you're making. It's that I do not agree. You can say it a million different ways and I'm still not going to accept that it's the defense's fault for a lack of offensive production. The worst field position we had in the game had nothing to do with defense. If you wanted to bitch about the second Eagles drive, I'm right there with you. That was 84 yards for a TD and it's the one that hurt the most.

 

And it's not that I'm putting all the blame solely on the offense. There's a lot of blame to go around. Spags for the two boneheaded playcalls resulting in td's. Coughlin for going for it on 4th down 3 times. The drops, the blocking, the arm tackles, the bad timing penalties etc.

 

A-HAH! I'm not trying to say that. I'm saying that the defense didn't help matters, and under the circumstances, it needed to.

 

Obviously the defense isn't responsible for sustaining a long drive by our offense. But it can have an influence on the effectiveness of shorter drives, and increase the probability of long drives by providing more opportunities.

 

But on a whole, it doesn't even sound like this is really your fight. I was getting frustrated with the tone of this thread, not you. The idea that 2 poor games this season is a good enough reason to hope our OC gets a job elsewhere rubbed me the wrong way.

 

I am now going to pull the Walter Solbchak option: "Fuck it, Dude, Let's go bowling."

[BIGBLUE01]

I hate this thread now.

[Nesta]

A-HAH! I'm not trying to say that. I'm saying that the defense didn't help matters, and under the circumstances, it needed to.

 

Obviously the defense isn't responsible for sustaining a long drive by our offense. But it can have an influence on the effectiveness of shorter drives, and increase the probability of long drives by providing more opportunities.

 

But on a whole, it doesn't even sound like this is really your fight. I was getting frustrated with the tone of this thread, not you. The idea that 2 poor games this season is a good enough reason to hope our OC gets a job elsewhere rubbed me the wrong way.

 

I am now going to pull the Walter Solbchak option: "Fuck it, Dude, Let's go bowling."

 

lol

 

Bowling? Any time. First beer's on me.

 

I seriously wouldn't mind if Gilbride found a head coaching job somewhere, but I definately wouldn't go so far as to fire him for two games. But admittedly, I'm prejudiced. I never liked him before he was Giant, although he has grown on me after last year.

My opinion is, and I could be completely wrong here in all likelihood, he is as much a product of our offense as they are of him.

[Virginia Giant]

I wanna go bowling.

[BadEgg]

I hate this thread now.

 

 

Panic and doubt spreading...And the worse is yet to come.

 

Sunday night will make the Eagles game look close.

 

Monday will be interesting.

[BIGBLUE01]

Panic and doubt spreading...And the worse is yet to come.

 

Sunday night will make the Eagles game look close.

 

Monday will be interesting.

 

No, I just meant that I knew you'd be chiming in soon.

 

 

Cowboys are goin down quicker than a prom date.

[Nesta]

Panic and doubt spreading...And the worse is yet to come.

 

Sunday night will make the Eagles game look close.

 

Monday will be interesting.

 

lol

 

Did you catch the last 8:30 minutes of the Dallas/Pitt game?

 

That was entertainment.

 

 

[fishgutmartyr]

Panic and doubt spreading...And the worse is yet to come.

 

Sunday night will make the Eagles game look close.

 

Monday will be interesting.

 

SILENCE! THE ORACLE SPEAKS!!!

 

He correctly predicted Dallas's big victory over Pitts...oh...

 

 

Do you make balloon animals too?

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

SILENCE! THE ORACLE SPEAKS!!!

 

He correctly predicted Dallas's big victory over Pitts...oh...

 

 

Do you make balloon animals too?

 

 

Must be sniffing the same volcanic gases that the original Oracle used to sniff to have her "visions". Bronze age laughing gas.

[Money]

uh yeah I realize that boo. What I'm saying is they make it easy for him. When all 3 of your runningbacks are getting over 5 ypc, you can just about be successful with any running play called.

 

We have that magnificent weapon, and the guy still gets stuck on the pass.

 

I didn't say anything was wrong with his PLAYS did I?

 

I have to disagree. The key is the run game. The RB's and the Oline. When it's on, Eli doesn't have to be. When it's ignored or not working is the only time Eli becomes a factor.

 

Thinking Eli is the key is exactly what gets Gil into trouble.

 

We'd definately wouldn't be 11-2 without dominating the run on both sides of the ball.

 

The effectiveness of our running backs isn't a precondition of the offense. We're successful in the running game because of the coaching and execution...

 

[Virginia Giant]

Panic and doubt spreading...And the worse is yet to come.

 

Sunday night will make the Eagles game look close.

 

Monday will be interesting.

No, not really, this has been an on going argument for, well, since Gillbride took the reigns.

[Money]

For the record, we're tied for 2nd in the league in scoring with 366 points. We're tied with New Orleans and behind only Arizona (372 points) -- two dome teams (both of whom have been terrible on the road). Prior to Sunday's game, we were the highest scoring team in football. This has been accomplished without our top receiver from 2007 for a large portion of the season. This has also been accomplished without our 2nd leading receiver from last year. If you were to grade our skill position players against their peers, we probably aren't in the top half of the league.

 

Beyond simple points and yardage output, we're also ranked 1st in offensive DVOA. By traditional and innovate standards, our offense is one of, if not the absolute best unit in the league. And again, this has been achieved with a moderately talented group of playmakers; certainly not the '99 Rams.

 

Nevermind that we won the Super Bowl last season, sprinted to an 11-2 start, powered by an offense that has been statistically top-notch ... our offensive coordinator needs to be replaced. Make perfect sense.

 

And, really, some of these criticism are embarassingly off base. For example, saying that Gilbride doesn't run the ball enough or is too pass-happy just flies in the face of reality. The Giants are actually one of the few teams that has run the ball more than they passed it. Now, this is somewhat misleading because the aggregate pass attempts don't include sacks and QB scrambles; however, even if you adjust for that we're still an extremely balanced offense. This should come as no surprise -- Coughlin only preaches balance every time he's in front of microphone.

[Nesta]

For the record, we're tied for 2nd in the league in scoring with 366 points. We're tied with New Orleans and behind only Arizona (372 points) -- two dome teams (both of whom have been terrible on the road). Prior to Sunday's game, we were the highest scoring team in football. This has been accomplished without our top receiver from 2007 for a large portion of the season. This has also been accomplished without our 2nd leading receiver from last year. If you were to grade our skill position players against their peers, we probably aren't in the top half of the league.

 

Beyond simple points and yardage output, we're also ranked 1st in offensive DVOA. By traditional and innovate standards, our offense is one of, if not the absolute best unit in the league. And again, this has been achieved with a moderately talented group of playmakers; certainly not the '99 Rams.

 

Nevermind that we won the Super Bowl last season, sprinted to an 11-2 start, powered by an offense that has been statistically top-notch ... our offensive coordinator needs to be replaced. Make perfect sense.

 

And, really, some of these criticism are embarassingly off base. For example, saying that Gilbride doesn't run the ball enough or is too pass-happy just flies in the face of reality. The Giants are actually one of the few teams that has run the ball more than they passed it. Now, this is somewhat misleading because the aggregate pass attempts don't include sacks and QB scrambles; however, even if you adjust for that we're still an extremely balanced offense. This should come as no surprise -- Coughlin only preaches balance every time he's in front of microphone.

 

Our 2nd leading reciever last year was Toomer. He's played all but 3 games.

 

[Money]

Our 2nd leading reciever last year was Toomer. He's played all but 3 games.

 

I was referring to Shockey; he would have been our second leading receiver if he didn't miss the final two and a half games. And although Toomer has played in every game this year, he's on pace to fall well short of last year's output.

 

Point being, this is not an impressively talented skill group. I could probably list 15 teams with better talent in that area. We played outdoors in a cold-weather stadium with worse wind conditions than anywhere save for Heinz Field. Yet, through some miracle, we're arguably the best offense in the league. Seems to me that our OC is doing a pretty damn good job...

[Nesta]

I was referring to Shockey; he would have been our second leading receiver if he didn't miss the final two and a half games. And although Toomer has played in every game this year, he's on pace to fall well short of last year's output.

 

Point being, this is not an impressively talented skill group. I could probably list 15 teams with better talent in that area. We played outdoors in a cold-weather stadium with worse wind conditions than anywhere save for Heinz Field. Yet, through some miracle, we're arguably the best offense in the league. Seems to me that our OC is doing a pretty damn good job...

 

I figured you were. Toomer is not gonna reach his receptions or yards from last year, but he'll probably double his TD's.

Our line is very talented. Our qb is very talented. Plax was very talented. Steve Smith is very talented.

Toomer is very good. Brandon Jacobs is very talented. That's the majority of the offense. I'd say we're talented.

 

Gilbride is doing a good job this year.

I'm not even sure if your post was directed at me. If so, I've already stated that and the fact we run more than throw.

What I wanted was a gameplan that was suitable for the weather. More running, less deep passing.

[Money]

I figured you were. Toomer is not gonna reach his receptions or yards from last year, but he'll probably double his TD's.

Our line is very talented. Our qb is very talented. Plax was very talented. Steve Smith is very talented.

Toomer is very good. Brandon Jacobs is very talented. That's the majority of the offense. I'd say we're talented.

 

Gilbride is doing a good job this year.

I'm not even sure if your post was directed at me. If so, I've already stated that and the fact we run more than throw.

What I wanted was a gameplan that was suitable for the weather. More running, less deep passing.

 

I think there are a lot of teams that can do better than Manning-Jacobs/Ward-Hixon-Toomer-Smith-Boss.

 

As for Sunday's loss, it was just one game. And to my recollection, they only deep pass we attempted was dropped...everything else was in the short-to-intermediate range (i'd have to rewatch to say this definitively). The Eagles really sat in a Cover-2 all game, blitzed infrequently, and defended the run. This forced us to have to be methodical and we couldn't do it. I have a hard to pinning it on the gameplan; we were ineffective without Jacobs, Eli was indecisive, the drops obviously were problematic.

 

In any case, it bears repeeating: this was just one. We'll bounce back vs. Dallas.