Manning or Simms?

[Gspotter]

It's close and the age of Giants fans may factor into these opinions. Obviously Phil has the longevity and a ring and an MVP; the kid has 2/3 of it thus far.

 

Thoughts?

 

PS

There's nothing else to talk about anyways, might as well...

[fishgutmartyr]

It's close and the age of Giants fans may factor into these opinions. Obviously Phil has the longevity and a ring and an MVP; the kid has 2/3 of it thus far.

 

Thoughts?

 

PS

There's nothing else to talk about anyways, might as well...

 

Well, at least it's not comparing Manning to Rothlesberger anymore...

 

It's really hard to say--Simms never had a player like Toomer, let alone Burress. And his best years in my opinion came at the end of his career.

 

But there is no comparison at this point between careers: Manning is way ahead of Simms, if for no other reason than he's stayed healthy.

 

[BIGBLUE01]

Well, at least it's not comparing Manning to Rothlesberger anymore...

 

It's really hard to say--Simms never had a player like Toomer, let alone Burress. And his best years in my opinion came at the end of his career.

 

But there is no comparison at this point between careers: Manning is way ahead of Simms, if for no other reason than he's stayed healthy.

 

Gotta agree here. Better receivers, but both and a good defense and a stud TE. And Manning is ahead of where Phil was.

[BlueInCanada]

Ummm who cares?

 

Seriously Eli is our QB now.

[Gspotter]

Sorry you don't care Canada, perhaps we could talk about the reality of where Shockey should get traded to...oh wait, that's another hypothetical.

 

I say that Phil could have done the same job and that I'd still take him right now. He was strong, a good passer, and played well in some big games.

 

Phil didn't event have the playoff experience that Eli had going into this season.

 

I don't dislike Eli, but I don't remember the light coming on for Phil, I just remember him not getting hurt as frequently. I did think that Phil showed more pocket guts though.

[fishgutmartyr]

Sorry you don't care Canada, perhaps we could talk about the reality of where Shockey should get traded to...oh wait, that's another hypothetical.

 

I say that Phil could have done the same job and that I'd still take him right now. He was strong, a good passer, and played well in some big games.

 

Phil didn't event have the playoff experience that Eli had going into this season.

 

I don't dislike Eli, but I don't remember the light coming on for Phil, I just remember him not getting hurt as frequently. I did think that Phil showed more pocket guts though.

I love Phil (in a burly, manly way), but it's really difficult to say that he was better at this point of his career. If he stayed healthy, didn't have to deal with the Brunner experiment, and didn't have to work with a minimalist offensive line (they formed a line, they came out on offensive plays); who knows?

 

But as things worked out, you can't say Phil was better than Eli over his first four years.

 

I will agree that he was much tougher in the pocket, and I think he threw some great passes.

[Gspotter]

No, I wouldn't say he's better with 4 years in. Of course Eli inherited a much better team (offensively) than Phil. Never the less, if I had to have one, I'm not sure Phil isn't the one for me. Yes, Eli has had his big win (thnk goodness), but he also has had some shaky games and has been been throwing to a huge WR, so his touch passes have been fleeting.

 

I think Phil was more durable and was more of a leader and he could throw (though he also got tipped at the line a bit), never the less, if I had to, I'd pick Phil even though (after 4 years) he was still somewhat behind Eli's curve, oh but did he come on and it'll take Eli leading the team through another huge season to be really competitive.

 

I doubt we'd have done worst with Phil than we did with Hos in the SB, so I believe he'd win two in that career.

[gateb]

Definitely Eli. Durability being the main reason.

[Gspotter]

Phil had early troubles and then was very sturdy. I think the issue of durability is polarized by Phil's early injuries. The fact that he came back from an achilles in that era is crazy.

 

I still think Phil. Eli may be the soup du jour, but I don't think anyone would make the Eli pick if he spends the rest of his career being one and done in the playoffs. He has to continue to progress in the reg season (at least) to keep the wolves at bay.

 

He can't just show up in the playoffs now that he's done it once.

[fringe]

It's kind of an unfair comparison because the Giants didn't really discover Offense until 1997. But here goes:

 

Arm- Eli

Accuracy- Phil

Brain- Eli

Escapability-Even

Vision- Even

Leadership- Eli

Heart- Phil (slight edge)

Potential- Eli

 

[gateb]

It's kind of an unfair comparison because the Giants didn't really discover Offense until 1997. But here goes:

 

Arm- Eli

Accuracy- Phil

Brain- Eli

Escapability-Even

Vision- Even

Leadership- Eli

Heart- Phil (slight edge)

Potential- Eli

was simms considered as reserved as eli back in the 80s?

[fringe]

was simms considered as reserved as eli back in the 80s?

no- simms was never considered reserved. he used to bark back at parcells on occasion.

[BronxRik]

I love Phil (in a burly, manly way), but it's really difficult to say that he was better at this point of his career. If he stayed healthy, didn't have to deal with the Brunner experiment, and didn't have to work with a minimalist offensive line (they formed a line, they came out on offensive plays); who knows?

 

But as things worked out, you can't say Phil was better than Eli over his first four years.

 

I will agree that he was much tougher in the pocket, and I think he threw some great passes.

Color me stupid, but when the Giants drafted Eli, didn't everyone (and I mean everyone) say our O-line sucked so bad Eli wouldn't be able to flourish? I remember everyone bitching like crazy about the line. And now, here I read how durable and injury free Eli is. I'm surprised Eli hasn't been beaten as bad as VG's cock. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy Eli is injury-free (as I hope VG's cock is as well), it's just with all the talk back then, you'd almost expect Eli to have David Carr syndrome by now.

[Sephiroth]

At this point in their careers, I'd definitely pick Eli over Simms. Eli is just starting to become the QB we hoped he'd be when we drafted him, and Phil hasn't thrown a pass since his number was retired. He's probably really rusty.

[BlueInCanada]

Re-sign that fat ass there we cut, hefty lefty and trade Eli to Oakland for a 6th and 7th. Hefty Lefty is our new starting QB, do it Jerry!! you stupid immgrate!

[NightFire]

Color me stupid, but when the Giants drafted Eli, didn't everyone (and I mean everyone) say our O-line sucked so bad Eli wouldn't be able to flourish? I remember everyone bitching like crazy about the line. And now, here I read how durable and injury free Eli is. I'm surprised Eli hasn't been beaten as bad as VG's cock. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy Eli is injury-free (as I hope VG's cock is as well), it's just with all the talk back then, you'd almost expect Eli to have David Carr syndrome by now.

 

I think our OLine has been underrated for a longtime. Considering Collins did well and considering every RB does well. They may not be all stars but they are very solid.

[Sephiroth]

I think our OLine has been underrated for a longtime. Considering Collins did well and considering every RB does well. They may not be all stars but they are very solid.

 

Yeah but I feel the difference is now we have a power O-line. In the Fassel/Collins era it was definitely more of a finesse line, which is why we were manhandled by the Ravens in the Super bowl.

 

Snee, McKenzie, and Seubert are all maulers, and though Diehl is barely above average in pass protection, just watch him on his man when they run behind him. The only finesse guy is O'Hara.

[fishgutmartyr]

Color me stupid, but when the Giants drafted Eli, didn't everyone (and I mean everyone) say our O-line sucked so bad Eli wouldn't be able to flourish? I remember everyone bitching like crazy about the line. And now, here I read how durable and injury free Eli is. I'm surprised Eli hasn't been beaten as bad as VG's cock. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy Eli is injury-free (as I hope VG's cock is as well), it's just with all the talk back then, you'd almost expect Eli to have David Carr syndrome by now.

 

Sure did. Considering we had a miserable line in 2003, only had Pettitgout and Diehl returning, and lost the only other half-decent linement in FA (Bober), that was to be expected. Then we moved Diehl to RT after playing his first year at guard. A center coming from Cleveland. A rookie at right guard. And we had to trade to get Whittle back. That's a hell of a lot of rearranging to expect great improvement.

 

It was kind of understandable that we went into that season expecting the worst. All things considered, we got really lucky.

[RandolphScott]

Color me stupid, but when the Giants drafted Eli, didn't everyone (and I mean everyone) say our O-line sucked so bad Eli wouldn't be able to flourish? I remember everyone bitching like crazy about the line. And now, here I read how durable and injury free Eli is. I'm surprised Eli hasn't been beaten as bad as VG's cock. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy Eli is injury-free (as I hope VG's cock is as well), it's just with all the talk back then, you'd almost expect Eli to have David Carr syndrome by now.

 

 

In 2004 the line took alot of unnecessary heat because Warner held onto

the ball for such a long time. When Eli was inserted the sacks went down because of

Eli's decision making and his quick release.

 

Fish is right, after the 2003 clusterfuck which saw pretty much every starting offensive

lineman (sans Bober, who was actually moved to right tackle to replace the lawn chairs known

as Ian Allen/Jeff Rohel/Jeff Hatch) go down with injuries.

 

In 2004 I was pretty pissed that the Giants drafted Chris Snee, personally I didn't see guard

to be that much of a need and I wanted them to draft either Jacob Rodgers or a linebacker from

that draft class. Rodgers is now out of the league and Snee is one of the top five guards in the

league. I'm glad I was wrong.

[JayD]

To me, its not even compareable. The only regular season stat Eli hasnt beaten was Phills 4000 yards. He's already beaten Sims amount of TD's (22 being his best season) several times now. Sims may not have had the same type of WR's as Eli, but he did have a top Defense year after year, giving him many more oportunities on the field, and a grinding run game. Eli may have both of those now, but he didnt get them till last year, and it took most of the year for the D to really come together.

[Martin]

Spotter, Hey waz up?

 

I'm gonna have to agree with the Eli supporters here.

 

Simms was great for the Giants no doubt there but

Eli has shown in the 1st 4 years what Simms had not.

 

He stayed healthy as one poster mentioned, he had

a number of games where he took the team on his

shoulders in the remaining minutes and won.

 

He was a vital part of the greatest Giants season

in modern memory. He diplayed not only in the S-bowl

but at other times in the 1st 4yrs that he thrived on pressure

when the game was fully on the line.

 

Simms in his 1st 4 years never had the opportunity

to display those kinds of qualities. The type of game

that was played back in the Simms era was so

dependent on D and the running game that the field

position battle didnt open up any high powered Giants offense.

(which by the way they never had any how)

 

In some ways to compare these 2 QB's are unfair to Simms as

both teams were different both offensively and defensively.

 

I admire both QB's for different reasons and the unique

teams they played for.

 

But if there were 1 choice after just looking at the 1st 4 years

it would be Eli. When the game is on the line and my QB is

gonna command the offense to go down the field and win it

I want Eli Manning with the ball not Phil Simms hands down!

 

 

 

[Gspotter]

Though I think everyone here is blinded by the dazzle of the SB victory, I understand why the numbers look so promising.

 

My feeling is that Eli is very good and the team is ahead of where Phil's was in this point in his career. NEver the less, Phil had a good arm, good vision, okay ball placement, limited opportunity, but when we did pass, he was pretty good, so long as it wasn't just measured by Buddy's Eagles bringing a 0 blitz.

 

I think the late transformation of Eli has removed some of the stink from his wobblers, underthrows, picks, and the fact that he has an enormous WR who he can't his other one's in spots, but he can loft it up.

 

Oh well, there both Giants and I'm not unhappy with Eli, just looking for conversation.

 

PS

Martin, long time, hope you're well, been meaning to drop you a line

[Bigblue25]

Let's remember, Simms took over a very bad team. We had a 18 year rebuilding plan, the Giants in 2003 were 4-12, but were in the playoffs the year before and were expected to be super bowl contenders, Obviously underachieved with Jim Fassel. We got Eli, Plex and hit paydirt with some draft picks 2004 to 2007. Overall though at the end of their careers,Eli will be considered the best QB in Giants history (Tittle,Conerly,Simms) pretty good company.

[Martin]

Let's remember, Simms took over a very bad team. We had a 18 year rebuilding plan, the Giants in 2003 were 4-12, but were in the playoffs the year before and were expected to be super bowl contenders, Obviously underachieved with Jim Fassel. We got Eli, Plex and hit paydirt with some draft picks 2004 to 2007. Overall though at the end of their careers,Eli will be considered the best QB in Giants history (Tittle,Conerly,Simms) pretty good company.

 

 

Thats a very good point and as a guy who watched Phil back then

he struggled not only as a young QB but the talent around him

was lacking. Eli on the other hand was lucky to have a solid

group of guys around him, not all pro bowlers but a lot of solid players.

 

I think the big thing that really sticks out between them is Eli

has that magic 2 min drill in him. He can really take the

pressure and pull it off. I never felt that about Sims.

 

 

 

 

[BIGBLUE01]

Thats a very good point and as a guy who watched Phil back then

he struggled not only as a young QB but the talent around him

was lacking. Eli on the other hand was lucky to have a solid

group of guys around him, not all pro bowlers but a lot of solid players.

 

I think the big thing that really sticks out between them is Eli

has that magic 2 min drill in him. He can really take the

pressure and pull it off. I never felt that about Sims.

 

Totally agreed. And he'll only get better, round out his game hopefully.