Gspotter Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 Yes, Eli does in fact have the two minute drill and I can't take that away from him. I still see the pocket frailty in him and his wobbly passes (a family tradition, I might add). I've always said that Eli can't throw it into spots, he just hucks it high for his unusually tall WR. I think we'll know everything we need to know this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlb37 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I have to say I am pretty fond of both but I would go with Simms. Then again I am a huge Simms fan so that might not count. As a couple of others have said he was definately a tough guy. How many times did we see him step into a tackle and deliver a strike up the seam. FWIW the guys at football reference have been having an ongoing discussion about various qb ranking methods. The latest list is top 75 for the era 1967 - 2006 and measures regular and post seeson numbers. Kind of interesting in a stats sort of way. Phil Simms went to 54th from 60th on this list when the post season numbers where added to regular season numbers. Here is a link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditto Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Eli. Simms was great as long as the confidence was there. Eli can come back quickly after throwing a bad pass or two, but not Simms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 When Simms had time, he could dissect any defense. His accuracy was excellent...the most accurate Giants passer I've ever seen. But when the pocket broke down, Phil was finished. But at this point in his career, Simms was still a question mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gspotter Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 I think Phil's pocket presence is under-rated. If you look closely, you'll see that he would stay in until the last minute and take a beating for the team in order to get the ball to one of his slow, under achieving WR's. He was top notch and if he had played (and won) that second SB or not followed up the first SB with a strike season, his place in history would live beyond the tri-state area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I think Phil's pocket presence is under-rated. If you look closely, you'll see that he would stay in until the last minute and take a beating for the team in order to get the ball to one of his slow, under achieving WR's. He was top notch and if he had played (and won) that second SB or not followed up the first SB with a strike season, his place in history would live beyond the tri-state area. That's an excellent point. Lord knows what Simms' numbers would have been in a West Coast offense. If the NFL kept a stat for "most completions on 3rd and long while getting drilled in the chest", Simms would be the leader. He was a tough dude...I remember him getting in Seth Joyner's face at one point (reckless, but impressive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gspotter Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 Joe, I couldn't agree more. He was tough and his 3rd down toughness will far outlast his effectiveness. It's not a secret to Phil fans that he was the 49er's choice when he was snatched up by the G and they took Montana. It worked out for everyone, but the truth is that Phil life may be been quite different in that offense and with those weapons. As it went, he still contended for the passing title in the NFC more than once against the likes of some stiff competition and he wasn't on what anyone would call a "pass happy" team. I'm still in awe of Phil, though he made similar mistakes to Eli (batted down passes) and was about that mobile. I will always think he should be in the HOF, but I won't wait for his nomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I'm still in awe of Phil, though he made similar mistakes to Eli (batted down passes) and was about that mobile. Jim Jeffcoat was Simm's personal nightmare for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Here's my take. If Eli and Phil went into the the offseason after 4 years with equal chances to win the job, there's no doubt to me Eli would win. Giants would love what Phil brings to the table but, there's no question that Eli on physical ability and pedigree that everyone would expect him to be special. However, if Eli had a bad set of games, like he's done at times, and the Giants felt he had to be pulled, if Simms got into the game, he'd be very hard to get back out. Because Simms could make stuff happen, he was more forceful, you'd be going to war with Simms, not playing ball. He could throw the ball well enough to keep his place. Simms playing for Coughlin and Parcells and playing decent football could be seen as enough to keep him as the starter. If you had Simms as QB of this team this year, we could have been better than we were if you think about it. Perhaps he doesn't throw the ball as hard as Eli and he doesn't throw the pass to Tyree, but chances are Simms has already gotten you to that spot in the 2-3 plays prior to it. When you are throwing to Lionel Manuel, Bobby Johnson and Phil McConkey, you better learn to throw efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayD Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Yes, Eli does in fact have the two minute drill and I can't take that away from him. I still see the pocket frailty in him and his wobbly passes (a family tradition, I might add). I've always said that Eli can't throw it into spots, he just hucks it high for his unusually tall WR. I think we'll know everything we need to know this season. Look at the superbowl clips. He put many passes right on the money through very small windows. The kid has it all, and will end up being the best Giants QB to have ever played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Jim Jeffcoat was Simm's personal nightmare for that. What did he have?......Two or three run back for touchdowns? Phil used to say you have to throw the ball with a flatter trajectory at Giants Stadium because of the high crown; basically the field is higher at the 50 yard line then gently slopes from there. I guess the genius who thought it up, thought it would help with the drainage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 What did he have?......Two or three run back for touchdowns? Phil used to say you have to throw the ball with a flatter trajectory at Giants Stadium because of the high crown; basically the field is higher at the 50 yard line then gently slopes from there. I guess the genius who thought it up, thought it would help with the drainage. I lost count. It seemed like the SOB would block a pass every game. Bet Phil cried crocodile tears at Jim's retirement party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gspotter Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 Since there's nothing else to talk about then, how about picking one of these two guys: Ralph Brown or Frank Walker. Hold on, hold on, I know they weren't all that great, but both had some big performances for us and so if you had to pick one, then who would it be... Be gentle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Since there's nothing else to talk about then, how about picking one of these two guys: Ralph Brown or Frank Walker. Hold on, hold on, I know they weren't all that great, but both had some big performances for us and so if you had to pick one, then who would it be... Be gentle ewwwwwwwwwww...... Brown had what? I remember him having one big interception, then getting injured. I say remembered, so I could be wrong. Walker could get a pass interference called on him in the huddle. If Walker didn't have his head up his ass, I think I would take him. He had more atheletic ability, but had almost no football sense. But the truth is neither really belonged on an NFL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Agree with Gut....Walker's mom should have given him two middle names, Pass Interference. That way it cuts down on any confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gspotter Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 I always liked Ralph, but couldn't see myself yelling "go Ralph" and not laughing. Frank Walker made some plays now, but without his helmet he was an eyesore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 I'll give you one that'll make Walker and Brown look like probowlers..........DAVE THOMAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gspotter Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Dave Thomas...hmm, didn't he play on our losing SB effort? That is a good one though. We had so few good names at CB, I think the best was Everson Walls and Mark Collins, otherwise, not too much to talk about...the momentary Sehorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I'll give you one that'll make Walker and Brown look like probowlers..........DAVE THOMAS. Hey, Dave was pretty good for a cornerback who ran the 40 in 5 seconds flat. He makes a pretty good hamburger too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gspotter Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 He makes a pretty good hamburger too. Not anymore; died a couple of years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Hey, Dave was pretty good for a cornerback who ran the 40 in 5 seconds flat. He makes a pretty good hamburger too. Yeah, but he is being overshadowed now by James Butler, who beats him by a mere fraction of a second. LOL, hamburger. We used to yell that at him when he would get burned(which was always BTW), "go make some fuckin hamburgers!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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