Virginia Giant Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Midway through the season, there were people who had him in the second half of the qb's. 16, 17, 18. just curious if this changes anyones opinion. It will be interesting to see how he carries this over to next year, if he can continue the smart play he showed during the playoffs, or if he reverts back to inconsistant play. I think he's top 10 for sure, the super bowl win and how he played throughout the playoffs should help him because while he says he never lost confidence. beating the 2 best teams in the nfc and the best team in the nfl has to do wonders for confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightFire Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Midway through the season, there were people who had him in the second half of the qb's. 16, 17, 18. just curious if this changes anyones opinion. It will be interesting to see how he carries this over to next year, if he can continue the smart play he showed during the playoffs, or if he reverts back to inconsistant play. I think he's top 10 for sure, the super bowl win and how he played throughout the playoffs should help him because while he says he never lost confidence. beating the 2 best teams in the nfc and the best team in the nfl has to do wonders for confidence. I think Eli's main difference is not fucking up. I don't think he's moved drastically because of this but I would say maybe 9th or 10th. Being clutch is a very good quality for a QB to have too. Let's just hope he is inconsistent in 08. Also the D was the biggest reason for this SB win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditto Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I think Eli's main difference is not fucking up. I don't think he's moved drastically because of this but I would say maybe 9th or 10th. Being clutch is a very good quality for a QB to have too. Let's just hope he is inconsistent in 08. Also the D was the biggest reason for this SB win. I thought the big difference was the way his confidence soared during the first NE game, and along with that, he finally took over team leadership. I don't know where I'd rate him, but I sure love the way he can think on his feet, and he's only 27 yrs old. I think that's his strong point because his accuracy is kinds so so. BTW, can't you guys find different avatars? You're driving me crazy. I always look at the avatar before the name, and I never know who I'm talking to. :brooding: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 I thought the big difference was the way his confidence soared during the first NE game, and along with that, he finally took over team leadership. I don't know where I'd rate him, but I sure love the way he can think on his feet, and he's only 27 yrs old. I think that's his strong point because his accuracy is kinds so so. BTW, can't you guys find different avatars? You're driving me crazy. I always look at the avatar before the name, and I never know who I'm talking to. :brooding: Tree started the whole Spags love avatar during the season. In a few days I'll change mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I said I'd keep up the Spagatar till training camp if he stayed. Karmically, I have to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayD Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Eli got better cause he got a ligit 3rd option who he could trust, and a TE who ran correct routes. Everything else was already in place. When we get Shock back, our offense will be unstopable. Provided we use Shock and Boss correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 1. Dylan 2. Dylan 3. Dylan 4. Dylan 5. Dylan 6. Dylan 7. Dylan 8. Dylan 9. Dylan 10. Dylan. Anybody who used to watch the Chappelle show will get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Midway through the season, there were people who had him in the second half of the qb's. 16, 17, 18. just curious if this changes anyones opinion. It will be interesting to see how he carries this over to next year, if he can continue the smart play he showed during the playoffs, or if he reverts back to inconsistant play. I think he's top 10 for sure, the super bowl win and how he played throughout the playoffs should help him because while he says he never lost confidence. beating the 2 best teams in the nfc and the best team in the nfl has to do wonders for confidence. the reality of it is, while manning played well relative to his career standards during the playoff run, the dog is hard pressed to suddenly elevate him up the QB ladder at this time. He limited his mistakes, and he played with more visible confidence, but to be truthful, if either of the passes he threw on the final drive of the SB that landed in the hands of the Patriots d-backs and were dropped had actually been picked, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Fair or unfair, there would be a lot of people taking about how he reverted back to the manning that we have seen over the last few years that makes some good plays, but makes the consistent costly mistake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 the reality of it is, while manning played well relative to his career standards during the playoff run, the dog is hard pressed to suddenly elevate him up the QB ladder at this time. He limited his mistakes, and he played with more visible confidence, but to be truthful, if either of the passes he threw on the final drive of the SB that landed in the hands of the Patriots d-backs and were dropped had actually been picked, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Fair or unfair, there would be a lot of people taking about how he reverted back to the manning that we have seen over the last few years that makes some good plays, but makes the consistent costly mistake... gee, you're saying a lot of QB ratings are based on luck? - a tip here- a drop there makes a difference- how insightful!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 gee, you're saying a lot of QB ratings are based on luck? - a tip here- a drop there makes a difference- how insightful!! Words of wisdumb, courtesy of schmucky dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Words of wisdumb, courtesy of schmucky dog. shmucky dog :lol: thats perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Eli got better cause he got a ligit 3rd option who he could trust, and a TE who ran correct routes. Everything else was already in place. When we get Shock back, our offense will be unstopable. Provided we use Shock and Boss correctly. Sorry, but I think that's bollox. Eli got better because his accuracy improved immeasurably. Blaming Shockey for being out of position doesn't account for all the passes thrown behind a WR though the middle of the season, and Boss was only targetted once or twice a game, far less than Shockey. Though some of Boss's plays were memorable, he was no game breaker. Eli got his groove back, his confidence up and became the passer we all hoped he really was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 the reality of it is, while manning played well relative to his career standards during the playoff run, the dog is hard pressed to suddenly elevate him up the QB ladder at this time. He limited his mistakes, and he played with more visible confidence, but to be truthful, if either of the passes he threw on the final drive of the SB that landed in the hands of the Patriots d-backs and were dropped had actually been picked, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Fair or unfair, there would be a lot of people taking about how he reverted back to the manning that we have seen over the last few years that makes some good plays, but makes the consistent costly mistake... Hmmm, but those passes did land in the hands of Giants, almost like he meant for that to happen. So how many current non super bowl winners contestants would you place above Eli. The entire playoffs we hear about how nothing matters short of the super bowl win. So by your own standards, take those could have happeneds and stats and shove em right up where the sun don't shine princess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayD Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Sorry, but I think that's bollox. Eli got better because his accuracy improved immeasurably. Blaming Shockey for being out of position doesn't account for all the passes thrown behind a WR though the middle of the season, and Boss was only targetted once or twice a game, far less than Shockey. Though some of Boss's plays were memorable, he was no game breaker. Eli got his groove back, his confidence up and became the passer we all hoped he really was. Your putting to much into the TE part of my post. The MAIN reason is Smith. Its no coinicodence that Eli turned it on about 2 weeks after Smith came back. He got a 3rd he could trust, and it changed our entire offense dramticaly. Then add in Boss, a target who would be where he is supposed to be on his routes, and wont throw a coniption if the ball isnt place perfect. Now Eli doesnt have to throw into double coverage. Now he doesnt have to drop bombs (low % passes) and force things. If his #1, and #2 are covered, he now has others who can open things up. Changing the entire offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 shmucky dog :lol: thats perfect! lol.........I try. I cant wait for his paragraph long, shakesperian themed response to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditto Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 the reality of it is, while manning played well relative to his career standards during the playoff run, the dog is hard pressed to suddenly elevate him up the QB ladder at this time. He limited his mistakes, and he played with more visible confidence, but to be truthful, if either of the passes he threw on the final drive of the SB that landed in the hands of the Patriots d-backs and were dropped had actually been picked, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Fair or unfair, there would be a lot of people taking about how he reverted back to the manning that we have seen over the last few years that makes some good plays, but makes the consistent costly mistake... It think the Dog makes a good point. There were some tosses that came close to being picked or blocked. (Not the TD pass, though. That was perfect.) But the Dog also states Eli limited his mistakes and played with visible confidence. But, since the Dog, like myself, considers Romo one of the top qb’s today, one of the top ten for me, how do you compare him to Eli? Myself, I think Romo has a stronger, more accurate arm, but I feel Eli has elevated himself to be the better qb overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 1. Dylan 2. Dylan 3. Dylan 4. Dylan 5. Dylan 6. Dylan 7. Dylan 8. Dylan 9. Dylan 10. Dylan. Anybody who used to watch the Chappelle show will get that. Nobody "spit" like Dylan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 gee, you're saying a lot of QB ratings are based on luck? - a tip here- a drop there makes a difference- how insightful!! as is usually the case, everyone gets defensive and really didn't read the dog's post for what it was...the references to the near interceptions was only to further support the fact that if either of those had been picked, many people would be talking about manning's continued pattern of making costly mistakes rather then his mistake free playoff run. at no time did the dog state that QB rating was based on luck. the fact that everyone wants to quickly elevate manning to the head of the QB pack is premature. he had a great run relative to limiting the mistakes he had often made. his play was less then spectacular otherwise. the bottom line is, he won and made the plays he had to, but that doesn't automatically move him past QBs that have performed consistently and effectively throughout the seasons and their careers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hmmm, but those passes did land in the hands of Giants, almost like he meant for that to happen. So how many current non super bowl winners contestants would you place above Eli. The entire playoffs we hear about how nothing matters short of the super bowl win. So by your own standards, take those could have happeneds and stats and shove em right up where the sun don't shine princess. the dog might argue that just because a QB is the winning QB in the Super Bowl, doesn't automatically rank him ahead of all others...otherwise, the argument could be made that Trent Dilfer should rank in the top 10 of QBs back in 2000, and that would be plain silly... and the near dropped interceptions actually didn't land in the hands of the Giants...they were incomplete passes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firstnten Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Midway through the season, there were people who had him in the second half of the qb's. 16, 17, 18. just curious if this changes anyones opinion. It will be interesting to see how he carries this over to next year, if he can continue the smart play he showed during the playoffs, or if he reverts back to inconsistant play. I think he's top 10 for sure, the super bowl win and how he played throughout the playoffs should help him because while he says he never lost confidence. beating the 2 best teams in the nfc and the best team in the nfl has to do wonders for confidence. For sure that game ending drive puts him in the top ten for W's. But hes not a top ten guy by stats. He had some really poor games this year, and some really good ones when it counted. This for me is a serious head scratcher. Every night I look at the SB Headlines framed haning on the wall and I still can't beileve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 as is usually the case, everyone gets defensive and really didn't read the dog's post for what it was...the references to the near interceptions was only to further support the fact that if either of those had been picked, many people would be talking about manning's continued pattern of making costly mistakes rather then his mistake free playoff run. at no time did the dog state that QB rating was based on luck. the fact that everyone wants to quickly elevate manning to the head of the QB pack is premature. he had a great run relative to limiting the mistakes he had often made. his play was less then spectacular otherwise. the bottom line is, he won and made the plays he had to, but that doesn't automatically move him past QBs that have performed consistently and effectively throughout the seasons and their careers... Excellent analysis, dog.....everyone knows that regular season statistics are the true measure of a great QB. 4th Quarter against a Belichick defense????.....that's irrelevant. The true crucible is week 3 v. the Houston Texans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Nobody "spit" like Dylan. LOL Eli spits like hot fire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Excellent analysis, dog.....everyone knows that regular season statistics are the true measure of a great QB. 4th Quarter against a Belichick defense????.....that's irrelevant. The true crucible is week 3 v. the Houston Texans! again, you are misunderstanding....the dog never took away anything that manning accomplished. the fact is, his play was vastly improved in the playoff run over what he has done in his career. but really, are you going to try and make the argument that one quarter of play should be the measuring stick relative to an entire season of play? if that's the case, then based on the second quarter of the redskins SB win over the broncos in '87 should instantly elevate doug williams ahead of every other QB that played the game. and again, merely as a point of debate, if either of mannings passes that fell in the arms of patriot's defenders on that final drive had been intercepted, this discussion would not be happening...does that mean he should automatically be elevated ahead of other quality QBs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 as is usually the case, everyone gets defensive and really didn't read the dog's post for what it was...the references to the near interceptions was only to further support the fact that if either of those had been picked, many people would be talking about manning's continued pattern of making costly mistakes rather then his mistake free playoff run. at no time did the dog state that QB rating was based on luck. poor persecuted shmucky dog - it is you who did not read my response- (it was only 2 lines)- it was not defensive- it said your post wasn't very insightful. still isn't- and since you only take the contrary position, what do you expect? i don't think you're very smart, i guess is the bottom line. and of course QB ratings are based somewhat on luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 again, you are misunderstanding....the dog never took away anything that manning accomplished. the fact is, his play was vastly improved in the playoff run over what he has done in his career. but really, are you going to try and make the argument that one quarter of play should be the measuring stick relative to an entire season of play? if that's the case, then based on the second quarter of the redskins SB win over the broncos in '87 should instantly elevate doug williams ahead of every other QB that played the game. and again, merely as a point of debate, if either of mannings passes that fell in the arms of patriot's defenders on that final drive had been intercepted, this discussion would not be happening...does that mean he should automatically be elevated ahead of other quality QBs? You say you are not taking away from what Manning did in the postseason, but you are not giving it any weight, either. All joking aside, my point is that regular season performance pales in comparison to the postseason. Doug Williams had a tremendous year during his SB run, and played an incredible game, so yeah, if you asked me during that season how he should be ranked, I'd say at the very top. Let's take Carson Palmer - supposedly a "great" QB, but what did he accomplish this season, other than gaudy stats and a losing record? What about Hasselbeck of the Seahawks?.....he flat out sucked against the Packers, in conditions far better than what Eli played in. Favre was outplayed by Manning, Romo was likewise inferior on the big stage, and Garcia as well. I haven't checked the stats, but please, someone out there name another QB that took his team to the playoffs his first three full seasons as a starter, and then won the Super Bowl and was named MVP when he was in his 4th year in the league. I'm pretty sure the list includes maybe Troy Aikman and Joe Montana. Here's my unscientific method of ranking QB's, in order of importance Super Bowl victories Super Bowl appearances Playoff appearances Regular season wins Regular season stats That's pretty much it.... people can throw out Trent Dilfer and Dan Marino as the two extremes, and perhaps the exception to the rule. Dan Marino was a clear case of a fantastic QB who deserved a lot better. For most of his career, he had a shit-defense and a mediocre running game. You can say the same about Dan Fouts. But then again, life's not fair. That's why the NFL Hall of Fame is such a great idea - to reward tremendous players. And say what you want about Dilfer, but the guy was the consumate game manager, and that counts too. In this ESPN-age, we glorify the gunslingers, but forget that guys like Bart Starr and Bob Griese did a pretty damn good job at the position too. Here's my ranking: #1 - Tom Brady #2 - Brett Favre #3 - Peyton Manning #4 - Eli Manning #5 - Ben Rothlisberger #6 - Kurt Warner #7 - Trent Dilfer #8 Brad Johnson #9 on down - everyone based on playoff appearances, etc., as noted above. Brad Johnson is arguable - I don't even know what team he's on now, so he could even be dropped off the list. Kurt Warner would rank at the top, except I think he's past his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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