Now Rank the Top 10 QB's

[Sephiroth]

I'd say that the playoff run and Super Bowl puts Manning in the top ten, no doubt.

 

However, Italian Hotdog does have a good point. There are still the Bradys and (other) Mannings out there which you might say are better QBs, in that they'be played at a consistent high level for years and have Super Bowl rings as well. Then there are also the Warners, Johnsons, Roethlisbergers, and Dilfers in the league who have a ring but are only considered to be good-to-average QBs at this stage in their careers.

 

Then you have the McNabbs, Hasselbecks (well... one of 'em at least), etc. who have no ring, but are multiple Pro-Bowlers.

 

I'd say at this point, you'd have to put Eli behind guys like Brady and Peyton, equal to a Roethlisberger, and ahead of guys like Warner and Hasselbeck.

[ksm7]

Here's my ranking:

#1 - Tom Brady

#2 - Brett Favre

#3 - Peyton Manning

#4 - Eli Manning

#5 - Ben Rothlisberger

#6 - Kurt Warner

#7 - Trent Dilfer

#8 Brad Johnson

#9 on down - everyone based on playoff appearances, etc., as noted above.

 

Brad Johnson is arguable - I don't even know what team he's on now, so he could even be dropped off the list. Kurt Warner would rank at the top, except I think he's past his prime.

 

just for clarification, are you arguing that trent dilfer is currently the 7th ranked Qb in the league? the dog sure hopes not...

[jints]

McNabb gets no love?

[JMFP]

just for clarification, are you arguing that trent dilfer is currently the 7th ranked Qb in the league? the dog sure hopes not...

 

I'm willing to listen to anyone that would argue that another QB deserves to be ranked above Dilfer at #7. Certainly, "diminishing skills" needs to be considered. Yesterday's champion is not today's champion.

 

Everyone likes to rag on Dilfer, but he did a great job in the biggest game of his career - certainly that carries a great deal of weight.

 

It's also interesting to see how the Raven franchise has fared since they released him - to date, they've been a massive disappointment, and "offensive genius" Brian Billick has been canned.

 

Again, I suspect your assessment is driven more by stats than accomplishments.

 

[fringe]

I'm willing to listen to anyone that would argue that another QB deserves to be ranked above Dilfer at #7. Certainly, "diminishing skills" needs to be considered. Yesterday's champion is not today's champion.

 

Everyone likes to rag on Dilfer, but he did a great job in the biggest game of his career - certainly that carries a great deal of weight.

 

It's also interesting to see how the Raven franchise has fared since they released him - to date, they've been a massive disappointment, and "offensive genius" Brian Billick has been canned.

 

Again, I suspect your assessment is driven more by stats than accomplishments.

nolan almost lost his job for sticking with dilfer this year, joe.- very diminished skills indeed- their 4th string, that guy hill from maryland out played him.

[ksm7]

I'm willing to listen to anyone that would argue that another QB deserves to be ranked above Dilfer at #7. Certainly, "diminishing skills" needs to be considered. Yesterday's champion is not today's champion.

 

Everyone likes to rag on Dilfer, but he did a great job in the biggest game of his career - certainly that carries a great deal of weight.

 

It's also interesting to see how the Raven franchise has fared since they released him - to date, they've been a massive disappointment, and "offensive genius" Brian Billick has been canned.

 

Again, I suspect your assessment is driven more by stats than accomplishments.

 

the dog just struggles with the notion that if you had your choice of QBs, you would choose to select Dilfer over someone say, like Drew Brees, based on the fact that Dilfer has a super bowl win under his belt. that is why you have to look at accomplishments as all relative. manning has been inconsistent in his career, and seems to have pulled things together, but this SB win and playoff run had more to do with the dominance of the defense and the coaching more so then it did Manning (who again, did what he needed to do...). someone like brees who is a quality QB but didn't benefit from a strong defense could arguably rank higher...mcnabb won more games as a starter with possibly one of the weakest receiving corps in football over the years, yet dilfer ranks better? carson palmer has all the tools to be a great QB, but because defensively that team struggled, he was unable to accumulate wins (see the cleveland game this year) means he should rank lower? the dog struggles with this, but to each his own...

[JMFP]

the dog just struggles with the notion that if you had your choice of QBs, you would choose to select Dilfer over someone say, like Drew Brees, based on the fact that Dilfer has a super bowl win under his belt. that is why you have to look at accomplishments as all relative. manning has been inconsistent in his career, and seems to have pulled things together, but this SB win and playoff run had more to do with the dominance of the defense and the coaching more so then it did Manning (who again, did what he needed to do...). someone like brees who is a quality QB but didn't benefit from a strong defense could arguably rank higher...mcnabb won more games as a starter with possibly one of the weakest receiving corps in football over the years, yet dilfer ranks better? carson palmer has all the tools to be a great QB, but because defensively that team struggled, he was unable to accumulate wins (see the cleveland game this year) means he should rank lower? the dog struggles with this, but to each his own...

 

Just for the sake of argument, let's put aside the variable of age (i.e., let's compare QB's based upon their respective "primes"), and compare Drew Brees v. Dilfer:

 

Drew Brees has amassed some respectable stats, and yet he failed to take his team to the Super Bowl. I understand that it is QB v defense, however, the fact remains that Rex Grossman outdueled Drew Brees in the NFC Championship in 2006. Contrast that with Dilfer, who did a very good job playing within the Raven's offensive system - which is mediocre to say the least.

 

You mentioned that Eli "did what he needed to do", but that is a massive understatementt. What "Eli needed to do" was to score 2 touchdowns in the fourth quarter to beat the Patriots. Keep in mind that we are talking about a Bill Belichick defense, an unbeaten team, and a team that has a record of 80-2 when entering the 4th quarter with a lead. Eli grabbed the lead, and when Brady did what Brady does, Eli once again grabbed the lead for keeps. Sorry, 'dog, but that was simply an amazing performance - the best 4th quarter a QB has ever had in a Super Bowl.

 

It's interesting you bring up McNabb, because he makes an excellent comparison with Eli Manning. McNabb was in nearly the exact same situation - late in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl, against these same Patriots, with the game on the line - and failed. Keep in mind that he had Terrell Owens to work with at the time, against a Patriots team that was nowhere near as dominant as they were this season.

 

There's an old saying - "if you see it, it is there" - that's perfect for discussing great QBs. In short, if the QB has won the Super Bowl, he has established (in my opinion) a level of excellence at the position. For the QB's main job is to win the game, and winning the last game is the goal of every QB. Like in the movie Highlander, every year, there can be only one.

 

A final thought - you mentioned Eli's inconsistency, and with respect to TD-INT, rating, etc., you've got valid points. However, as QB's themselves say, the most important stat for a QB is wins. And looking at Eli, you've got a guy who went to the playoffs in each of his first 3 full starting seasons. Against the Panthers, he struggled mightily, against the Eagles the next season, he played much better, but still lost....and then of course we all know what happened this season.

[ksm7]

Just for the sake of argument, let's put aside the variable of age (i.e., let's compare QB's based upon their respective "primes"), and compare Drew Brees v. Dilfer:

 

Drew Brees has amassed some respectable stats, and yet he failed to take his team to the Super Bowl. I understand that it is QB v defense, however, the fact remains that Rex Grossman outdueled Drew Brees in the NFC Championship in 2006. Contrast that with Dilfer, who did a very good job playing within the Raven's offensive system - which is mediocre to say the least.

 

You mentioned that Eli "did what he needed to do", but that is a massive understatementt. What "Eli needed to do" was to score 2 touchdowns in the fourth quarter to beat the Patriots. Keep in mind that we are talking about a Bill Belichick defense, an unbeaten team, and a team that has a record of 80-2 when entering the 4th quarter with a lead. Eli grabbed the lead, and when Brady did what Brady does, Eli once again grabbed the lead for keeps. Sorry, 'dog, but that was simply an amazing performance - the best 4th quarter a QB has ever had in a Super Bowl.

 

It's interesting you bring up McNabb, because he makes an excellent comparison with Eli Manning. McNabb was in nearly the exact same situation - late in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl, against these same Patriots, with the game on the line - and failed. Keep in mind that he had Terrell Owens to work with at the time, against a Patriots team that was nowhere near as dominant as they were this season.

 

There's an old saying - "if you see it, it is there" - that's perfect for discussing great QBs. In short, if the QB has won the Super Bowl, he has established (in my opinion) a level of excellence at the position. For the QB's main job is to win the game, and winning the last game is the goal of every QB. Like in the movie Highlander, every year, there can be only one.

 

A final thought - you mentioned Eli's inconsistency, and with respect to TD-INT, rating, etc., you've got valid points. However, as QB's themselves say, the most important stat for a QB is wins. And looking at Eli, you've got a guy who went to the playoffs in each of his first 3 full starting seasons. Against the Panthers, he struggled mightily, against the Eagles the next season, he played much better, but still lost....and then of course we all know what happened this season.

 

the dog just thinks you are overlooking the fact that you do not need a top notch QB to win a Super Bowl, and winning a Super Bowl does not a great QB make. Put Drew Brees as an example on the Giants this season, and they arguably still produce the same results or better. The fact is, Manning needed only to manage the game and do what was necessary to help his team win. Does not make him great (he still could ultimately be great, but at this point, he is an average QB that played well for a stretch at the right time...). The fact is, if the Giants defense to rise to the level it did this postseason, manning does not have a ring. That is why it is difficult to measure a QBs greatness based on Super Bowl wins...if the bears win last year's SB, are you going to argue that Grossman is a higher ranked QB then P. Manning?

[UK-Giantsfan]

Based on 07 IMO

 

#1 - Tom Brady

#2 - Peyton Manning

#3- Brett Favre

#4- Tony Romo

#5 - Eli Manning

#6 - Philip Rivers

#7 - Donovan McNabb

#8 - Ben Rothlisberger

#9 - Matt Hasselbeck

#10 -Drew Brees

 

 

[fringe]

There's an old saying - "if you see it, it is there" - that's perfect for discussing great QBs. In short, if the QB has won the Super Bowl, he has established (in my opinion) a level of excellence at the position. For the QB's main job is to win the game, and winning the last game is the goal of every QB. Like in the movie Highlander, every year, there can be only one.

so, joe- does dan marino stand behind doug williams or joe theismann or jeff hostetler?

[ksm7]

Just for the sake of argument, let's put aside the variable of age (i.e., let's compare QB's based upon their respective "primes"), and compare Drew Brees v. Dilfer:

 

Drew Brees has amassed some respectable stats, and yet he failed to take his team to the Super Bowl. I understand that it is QB v defense, however, the fact remains that Rex Grossman outdueled Drew Brees in the NFC Championship in 2006. Contrast that with Dilfer, who did a very good job playing within the Raven's offensive system - which is mediocre to say the least.

 

You mentioned that Eli "did what he needed to do", but that is a massive understatementt. What "Eli needed to do" was to score 2 touchdowns in the fourth quarter to beat the Patriots. Keep in mind that we are talking about a Bill Belichick defense, an unbeaten team, and a team that has a record of 80-2 when entering the 4th quarter with a lead. Eli grabbed the lead, and when Brady did what Brady does, Eli once again grabbed the lead for keeps. Sorry, 'dog, but that was simply an amazing performance - the best 4th quarter a QB has ever had in a Super Bowl.

 

It's interesting you bring up McNabb, because he makes an excellent comparison with Eli Manning. McNabb was in nearly the exact same situation - late in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl, against these same Patriots, with the game on the line - and failed. Keep in mind that he had Terrell Owens to work with at the time, against a Patriots team that was nowhere near as dominant as they were this season.

 

There's an old saying - "if you see it, it is there" - that's perfect for discussing great QBs. In short, if the QB has won the Super Bowl, he has established (in my opinion) a level of excellence at the position. For the QB's main job is to win the game, and winning the last game is the goal of every QB. Like in the movie Highlander, every year, there can be only one.

 

A final thought - you mentioned Eli's inconsistency, and with respect to TD-INT, rating, etc., you've got valid points. However, as QB's themselves say, the most important stat for a QB is wins. And looking at Eli, you've got a guy who went to the playoffs in each of his first 3 full starting seasons. Against the Panthers, he struggled mightily, against the Eagles the next season, he played much better, but still lost....and then of course we all know what happened this season.

 

 

The dog looks at the packers-broncos super bowl as an example. Now, arguably Elway is a top 5 QB in nfl history, and easily top 10. but that season, brett favre was the superior QB. in that game, elway was asked to do nothing more then manage the game. pick up some key third downs, don't make a costly mistake, and rely on the run game to take them home. favre completely out-performed him, but because the broncos had davis running the ball, and a defense that played extremely well over the course of the game, they won. elway made some key plays, but his role was similar to mannings this year. the dog can't argue that even though elway won the game, he should be ranked as a better QB than favre that year...

[BleedinBlue]

Sports magazines and commentators use "stats" as the only measuring stick when comparing QB's. But there is much more to being a QB than stats. Therefore, here's my 2 centavos

 

My assessment of Eli

 

Stats: Middle of the pack, but would be a lot better if there weren't so many dropped passes this past season. Eli hit recievers right on the numbers repeatedly, but the passes were dropped. Not a top 10 QB in this category yet

 

Athleticism: (arm strength, accuracy, ability to run, etc.) leaves Eli in the middle of the pack - probably not a top 10 QB by this standard, but is improving and might well be in top 5 down the road (it would help he threw a few more "spirals" instead of "wobbles".

 

Leadership: Eli has definitely taken over as the leader on the offense. He has the respect of the players around him and they like him and trust him. Top 10 QB in this category

 

Ability to quickly comprehend changing defensive schemes: This is where Eli has improved the most. He studies films like a coach studies films and pushes himself to constantly improve. You can tell by the mannerisms he showed this season that he is getting more and more confident in reading the defense and is barking out what to expect to his teammates. Eli might be headed for the no. 1 QB in this category.

 

Overall assessment: Definitely showing signs of a top 10 QB and guaranteed to be an elite QB in a couple of years.

 

Eli reminds me of an old QB named Roger Staubach.....right down to the 2-minute drills at the end of games or half time, where Roger excelled like no QB before him or QB since. Staubach spent untold hours in the film room with Landry and picked Landry's brain for every drop of understanding he could get. After a few years, he was so in tune with Landry's thinking that he was like a QB with the coach's brain while on the field. Staubach wasn't the most athletic QB, but he became the smartest and most consistent QB in the NFL during his prime and with the game on the line, he would march the team the length of the field in the last minute to win the game.

[JMFP]

Here is the post that started it all....

[JackStroud]

I'd rate Eli Top 10 for sure, maybe even top 5 but this year was not his shining star

 

Donovan McNabb #7............thats ludicrous........hes not even top 20