Boss and Shockey

[Allstarjim]

Boss really showed us a lot last night didn't he? He clearly has better hands than Shockey, and I like his size and toughness. I don't know what Shockey's contract is like, and don't even know if cutting him would be an option, but I like Boss as the starter. Shockey's career with the Giants has been marked by dropped passes just as much as the intensity he brings. I think a change of scenery would be good for him. And I have a team in mind I think he would be great on. The New Orleans Saints. Couldn't you see it? They need a pass-catching TE for Brees. I'm just watching the Saints on TV now, and they are way to reliant on Colston. Shockey's intensity and tough mentality would also add to that team, because I think they need more of both. Plus, he has history with Sean Payton. Boss would help us more than Shockey because he is probably better in protection and he definitely has softer hands. Eli needs the reliability and increased protection for him to excel further. What do you guys think?

[fishgutmartyr]

Kind of need a little more than a single game to judge. He looked good last night, but I wouldn't dump Shockey just yet.

[Allstarjim]

I understand what you're saying, but I'm really not just judging him on one game. Last night was his best game, but he's been impressive since Shockey got hurt. He has shown he belongs, I think. And I also believe that Eli is developing a rapport with him, as he's gaining confidence because he knows the pass is going to be caught if he gets it there. With the money we by not paying Shockey, we can get a legit WR to be opposite Plax. And dare I say, Lance Briggs is a FA this offseason. Or perhaps a corner to replace Madison.

[Sephiroth]

Shockey's hands and horrible attitude have both been much improved this year... but I still sort of agree with you. I just don't like headcases... he's one of those guys that plays for your team, but he's still an asshole.

 

If we could get something worthwhile for him (2nd or 3rd round pick, or maybe swap picks with someone in the top-10) I wouldn't be upset.

[Virginia Giant]

I couldn't dissagree more, run 2 TE sets with both Boss and Shock going out for passes.

 

 

Shockey IS the New York Giants, he is one o0f the first people thought of when people here the teams name. And to be honest, I love the fact we have a guy other teams fans hate.

[WolfA4]

It's hilarious how people always want to replace a proven star player with a back-up. You know what happens if Boss becomes a starter? Teams start to devout protection to him like he's a starter and then you'll his lack of speed and agility which is what Shockey brings to the game.

[Allstarjim]

It's hilarious how people always want to replace a proven star player with a back-up. You know what happens if Boss becomes a starter? Teams start to devout protection to him like he's a starter and then you'll his lack of speed and agility which is what Shockey brings to the game.

 

 

Um... Boss has been the starter for the last two weeks and has done a good job. Shockey's actual PLAY has been uneven. The point is to upgrade the #2 receiver with what we save in salary by dumping Shockey. That way, we don't lose that much at TE, because Boss can play as evidenced by last week and other opportunities he's had, plus, we become more dangerous on the outside. Shockey does bring speed and agility, but I'd really like him to bring his hands. I disagree with you that Shockey is a proven star player, at least not anymore. He has star appeal in the media, some of which is due to him playing in NY. But just in this division, he is the 3rd best TE. Overall in the NFL, I don't think he is even in the top 10, maybe not the top half of the league.

[RandolphScott]

Um... Boss has been the starter for the last two weeks and has done a good job. Shockey's actual PLAY has been uneven. The point is to upgrade the #2 receiver with what we save in salary by dumping Shockey. That way, we don't lose that much at TE, because Boss can play as evidenced by last week and other opportunities he's had, plus, we become more dangerous on the outside. Shockey does bring speed and agility, but I'd really like him to bring his hands.

 

 

Right, without Shockey you do realize that Burress and Toomer will now get double

covered? Teams will practically beg for Boss to beat them.

[Allstarjim]

Right, without Shockey you do realize that Burress and Toomer will now get double

covered? Teams will practically beg for Boss to beat them.

 

Did that happen last 2 games? Plus, Boss beat the Patriots on a number of plays. Also, we are talking about next year. My point is that we would use the cost differential to upgrade over Toomer. Sorry if you guys don't like me playing GM here a little. But in my scenario, Toomer is gone elsewhere or demoted to #3, and the cost differential is used to import another dangerous WR to complement Burress. Also, 2 WR's are rarely double covered on the same plays, because the middle of the field becomes too exposed.

[RandolphScott]

Did that happen last 2 games? Plus, Boss beat the Patriots on a number of plays. Also, we are talking about next year. My point is that we would use the cost differential to upgrade over Toomer. Sorry if you guys don't like me playing GM here a little. But in my scenario, Toomer is gone elsewhere or demoted to #3, and the cost differential is used to import another dangerous WR to complement Burress. Also, 2 WR's are rarely double covered on the same plays, because the middle of the field becomes too exposed.

 

 

Boss beat them because you can only sustain coverage for a short period of time.

That Manning to Boss play was a broke play.

 

Shockey demands alot more respect than Kevin Boss does. Let's wait until we can

crown him.

[fringe]

Point you're missing, Mr. Play GM is that Shockey is also a blocker, a very good blocker. So, Boss only plays when the tight end is split and primarily as a receiver. We have that other guy who is our blocking TE. You lose quite a bit of flexibility. However, it is good to see that we are deep enough in that position to withstand injury.

[RandolphScott]

Point you're missing, Mr. Play GM is that Shockey is also a blocker, a very good blocker. So, Boss only plays when the tight end is split and primarily as a receiver. We have that other guy who is our blocking TE. You lose quite a bit of flexibility. However, it is good to see that we are deep enough in that position to withstand injury.

 

 

Exactly. It would be stupid to release him and I could guarantee he'd have a job within

2 days.

[WolfA4]

Um... Boss has been the starter for the last two weeks and has done a good job. Shockey's actual PLAY has been uneven. The point is to upgrade the #2 receiver with what we save in salary by dumping Shockey. That way, we don't lose that much at TE, because Boss can play as evidenced by last week and other opportunities he's had, plus, we become more dangerous on the outside. Shockey does bring speed and agility, but I'd really like him to bring his hands. I disagree with you that Shockey is a proven star player, at least not anymore. He has star appeal in the media, some of which is due to him playing in NY. But just in this division, he is the 3rd best TE. Overall in the NFL, I don't think he is even in the top 10, maybe not the top half of the league.

Um... Boss is a back up. He is onyl starting because Shockey is injured, he is by no means a starter. Shockeys worse seasons are still better than most TE's in the league, evidence is in his stats. You are an absolute idiot if you think that Shockey is an average TE ("not the top half of the league") who is obviously not looking at his stats, or his play. Take the rose colored glasses off nitwit, and realise that Boss is a back up who cought 9 balls all year long.

[BurnThePhilFans]

this argument is the equivalent of having sinorice moss make one great catch and comparing him to jerry rice

[BlueInCanada]

Boss is a back up and I'm so sure the Pats were scared of a backup TE coming off the bench in his first game. I bet they spent a whole minuet game planning for him. Wait to see what this kid can do when a team actually plans for him like the entire league does for Shock....then we can see what he does.

[Allstarjim]

Boss is 6'-6" and 253. If he can't block at least as well as Shockey then we should fire our Tight Ends coach. I like our depth also, and by no means am I saying that the Giants should definitely get rid of Shockey. I apparently don't have the man crush on him that others here have. He is a decent TE, but IMO does not live up to his massive hype. He drops a lot of passes and commits stupid penalties sometimes. That said, he I love his competitiveness and fire. I am a Shockey fan, I would root for him on any other team he might go to (except when playing NY). I would love to see what he could do in the New Orleans offense in particular, and seeing how Brees needs a target like him to complement Colston, it would be interesting to see how he would impact that offense in particular. What I think is that we found a winner in Boss and that his presence gives us future flexibility with the makeup of the offense. It wouldn't necessarily be stupid to move him if it means that the Giants upgrade themselves on offense at another position or positions. By itself just to cut him, yes it would be dumb. Would Shockey land somewhere else? Sure, but that is irrelevant. But I like Boss and think he could start for us. There is nothing dumb about that. Eventually, Shockey will leave the Giants. Boss very well may be his successor. And he also may turn out to be a better player. I'm not saying he is right now, that would be crazy. But I haven't seen so far that we've lost very much, and we may be seeing Eli develop a real chemistry with him right now. On a side note, I really like the way we've been drafting recently. It's hard to believe we got Bradshaw, Boss, Ross, Moss, Wilkinson, Torbor, Kiwanuka, Alford, Michael Johnson, Steve Smith, and Cofield, all in the last 2 drafts. These guys are players. Some still need some seasoning, and some more than others, but this has been two excellent draft classes in a row. I was very critical of the Giants in this last draft class for not using their 1st round pick on a replacement for Luke Petitgout, but Deihl has really transitioned well and worked out for us. Good for Jerry Reese.

[Allstarjim]

Um... Boss is a back up. He is onyl starting because Shockey is injured, he is by no means a starter. Shockeys worse seasons are still better than most TE's in the league, evidence is in his stats. You are an absolute idiot if you think that Shockey is an average TE ("not the top half of the league") who is obviously not looking at his stats, or his play. Take the rose colored glasses off nitwit, and realise that Boss is a back up who cought 9 balls all year long.

 

 

I said "maybe" not in the top half in the league, and I admit I was overreaching with that. But he is not an elite TE anymore. I have watched plenty of his play. I submit to you that it is you, not I, that have the rose-colored glasses on. Boss has been impressive. He is a rookie that is showing something. I'm not crowning his ass, but so far he looks like he can be a player. You are obviously into labeling people based on their draft position or hype. You must not have any vision. There are plenty of Pro Bowl players that were drafted low or even not drafted. You say he is nothing but a back up and that is all he'll ever be it seems in your mind, but that doesn't make it so. And it also would be a good thing for the Giants. Judging by your posts, it looks like you are rooting for him to be nothing but a backup, which is ridiculous. It's as if you are scared that someone might actually challenge your mancrush Jeremy for his job. Competition is always good. We will either be better off with another player, or Jeremy will be forced to be better because he has been pushed.

 

BTW, here is a list of TEs in the NFL that are at least arguably better than Shockey right now. I could add more that are probably better, but are still unproven, like Vernon Davis and Greg Olsen. And another guy who is probably better is Ben Watson, but he has battled injuries.

 

Gates

Clark

Cooley

Witten

Gonzalez

Winslow

Miller

Daniels

Watson

 

and maybe Sheffler.

 

I don't have the rose-colored glasses. I watch the games and none of these players have the propensity to drop passes and commit the stupid penalties that Shockey has made at times, or miss a bunch of games almost every season like Shockey has (and I realize that injuries happen, but for some people they seem to happen more often). A Shockey-less Giants team is not the end of the world, geez.

 

[fringe]

Boss is 6'-6" and 253. If he can't block at least as well as Shockey then we should fire our Tight Ends coach.

winner, dumbest statement of 2008.

[BlueInCanada]

Boss is 6'-6" and 253. If he can't block at least as well as Shockey then we should fire our Tight Ends coach.

 

:LMAO: Oh wait your serious... :LMAO:

 

[Allstarjim]

this argument is the equivalent of having sinorice moss make one great catch and comparing him to jerry rice

 

 

Actually it's not because Shockey is nowhere even close to being the Jerry Rice of TE's. If you are saying it's too early to tell, I agree. But early returns are good, and that is all I'm saying.

[Allstarjim]

winner, dumbest statement of 2008.

 

I wasn't being serious, just saying the kid can block right now and will improve with coaching.

[NightFire]

Boss is a back up and I'm so sure the Pats were scared of a backup TE coming off the bench in his first game. I bet they spent a whole minuet game planning for him. Wait to see what this kid can do when a team actually plans for him like the entire league does for Shock....then we can see what he does.

 

I guess we will find out on Sunday.

[boohyah]

Forget the whole Shockey can be replaced by Boss, that's not happening. Boss has shown some good stuff so far, but he can't block worth a shit right now, even if he's 6-6 and 253 AllStar, I mean the defensive ends he has to block are almost that size so you're not making a point with that.

 

Here are more interesting battles in training camp next year involving this years rookies.

 

 

Aaron Ross vs Webster, only because it could be Webster's last chance to make an impression.

 

Alford vs Robbins: If Alford shows improvement in his game in training camp, Robbins may be surplus to demands

 

Dahl/Johnson vs Gibril/Butler: To me this is a serious competition, both Dahl and Johnson didn't look out of place while they started and have earned their minutes. Butler has been very so-so all year and Gibril will be looking for a nice longer contract. Me thinks Gibril will be a goner.

 

Steve Smith vs Sinorice Moss: A healthy Smith is better than a healthy Moss by the looks of things.

 

 

[Allstarjim]

Forget the whole Shockey can be replaced by Boss, that's not happening. Boss has shown some good stuff so far, but he can't block worth a shit right now, even if he's 6-6 and 253 AllStar, I mean the defensive ends he has to block are almost that size so you're not making a point with that.

 

Here are more interesting battles in training camp next year involving this years rookies.

Aaron Ross vs Webster, only because it could be Webster's last chance to make an impression.

 

Alford vs Robbins: If Alford shows improvement in his game in training camp, Robbins may be surplus to demands

 

Dahl/Johnson vs Gibril/Butler: To me this is a serious competition, both Dahl and Johnson didn't look out of place while they started and have earned their minutes. Butler has been very so-so all year and Gibril will be looking for a nice longer contract. Me thinks Gibril will be a goner.

 

Steve Smith vs Sinorice Moss: A healthy Smith is better than a healthy Moss by the looks of things.

 

Thanks for counterpointing me without being insulting. I think that some of the drops and dumb penalties Shockey has made in the past has soured me a little. I do think he is a great talent, though, and I hope that as long as he is with the Giants he will help Eli gain confidence by catching those balls in the future! I do like Shockey. I wish all of our players had his tenacity and will to win. By no means do I WANT him gone. I think some people here think that. But I am a Giants fan first and foremost and hope if they do make a move it will better the team, no matter who leaves. At the same time, I will root for Boss to reach his full potential and I hope that if he does it makes him the best TE in the NFL. It sounds crazy now, but you never know, thanks to Tom Brady's story, right? You make interesting points with the rest of your post, too. I really hope that we keep Robbins and Gibril, though. We really need the solid players in the secondary to stay. Gibril is solid. I hope we can import a replacement for Madison. I've long wanted the Giants to have an elite CB a la a Marcus Trufant, Champ Bailey, or Antonio Cromartie type (had to show a little love for a Florida State guy, just made his first Pro Bowl, and first of many at that). I agree with your statement about Steve Smith as well. One of them needs to step up big and be another deep threat for us.

 

[fishgutmartyr]

Forget the whole Shockey can be replaced by Boss, that's not happening. Boss has shown some good stuff so far, but he can't block worth a shit right now, even if he's 6-6 and 253 AllStar, I mean the defensive ends he has to block are almost that size so you're not making a point with that.

 

Here are more interesting battles in training camp next year involving this years rookies.

Aaron Ross vs Webster, only because it could be Webster's last chance to make an impression.

 

Alford vs Robbins: If Alford shows improvement in his game in training camp, Robbins may be surplus to demands

 

Dahl/Johnson vs Gibril/Butler: To me this is a serious competition, both Dahl and Johnson didn't look out of place while they started and have earned their minutes. Butler has been very so-so all year and Gibril will be looking for a nice longer contract. Me thinks Gibril will be a goner.

 

Steve Smith vs Sinorice Moss: A healthy Smith is better than a healthy Moss by the looks of things.

 

Ross isn't going anywhere--Webster is going to be battling Dockery and anyone else they bring in. Considering Madison's age, they'll probably bring in a few CBs. McQuarters is on the clock as well.

 

I agree--I think Gibril won't be with us much longer. Johnson is definitely battling for starter next season, along with Butler, Dahl, and whoever else they bring in. The backfield has reached the level of competent this year, but I don't think anybody should be setting up a mortgage there just yet.

 

I think both Alford and Robbins are safe--but Willie Jo is gone, and we look for another DT. I know Tuck plays DT technically, but I think he's shown that he's Strahan's successor.

 

A healthy Smith is better than a healthy Moss by the looks of things.--That's true, but are we ever going to see either one happen? This part of the team frustrates me more than any other, because they look like world-beaters in preseason, and half of them end up on crutches by the end of the season.

 

Jim--I think they did draft Boss to replace Shockey eventually: they had Pope spend far more time with him than most potential draft picks normally get with a position coach. But unless that leg screws up Shockey worse than we know, it isn't happening next season, and probably not the following season, either.