Boss and Shockey

[boohyah]

Ross isn't going anywhere--Webster is going to be battling Dockery and anyone else they bring in. Considering Madison's age, they'll probably bring in a few CBs. McQuarters is on the clock as well.

 

I agree--I think Gibril won't be with us much longer. Johnson is definitely battling for starter next season, along with Butler, Dahl, and whoever else they bring in. The backfield has reached the level of competent this year, but I don't think anybody should be setting up a mortgage there just yet.

 

I think both Alford and Robbins are safe--but Willie Jo is gone, and we look for another DT. I know Tuck plays DT technically, but I think he's shown that he's Strahan's successor.

 

A healthy Smith is better than a healthy Moss by the looks of things.--That's true, but are we ever going to see either one happen? This part of the team frustrates me more than any other, because they look like world-beaters in preseason, and half of them end up on crutches by the end of the season.

 

Jim--I think they did draft Boss to replace Shockey eventually: they had Pope spend far more time with him than most potential draft picks normally get with a position coach. But unless that leg screws up Shockey worse than we know, it isn't happening next season, and probably not the following season, either.

 

 

Fish, I meant Ross and Webster to battle over starting jobs.

 

I wasn't even counting Joseph in the equation, why would they even consider bringing him back. I see him as a reclaimation project on some other team, maybe the Texans, that's where some of our rejects go.(Demps, Dayne). The way I look at Robbins is this, You know how there's one or two guys you just wonder why we released them in the offseason, I think that guy is Robbins this year. I feel the Giants are going to think that a combination of Alford/Cofield and Tuck may be enough. Robbins needs too much motivation for a veteran.

 

I think we got to give Smith more than one to see if he has an issue staying healthy. Moss has proven otherwise.

[fishgutmartyr]

Fish, I meant Ross and Webster to battle over starting jobs.

 

I wasn't even counting Joseph in the equation, why would they even consider bringing him back. I see him as a reclaimation project on some other team, maybe the Texans, that's where some of our rejects go.(Demps, Dayne). The way I look at Robbins is this, You know how there's one or two guys you just wonder why we released them in the offseason, I think that guy is Robbins this year. I feel the Giants are going to think that a combination of Alford/Cofield and Tuck may be enough. Robbins needs too much motivation for a veteran.

 

I think we got to give Smith more than one to see if he has an issue staying healthy. Moss has proven otherwise.

I understood what you meant, Boo, but Webster would have to have one helluva offseason to get that gig back. Ross has proven to be able to do the job, while Webster did no such thing when he was the starter. Maybe that changes when Madison goes, but I don't think it will as things stand right now.

 

I was ready to see Robbins go at one point, but with all the youngsters, and that he's proven the last two years to be a good player when he decides to show up, he's worth keeping.

 

(edit: I just re-read your post, and see what you're getting at with Robbins. Put me down in the pool for Madison. Maybe even Strahan, if he pushes too far.)

 

I agree totally with Smith, that's just frustration due to years of Carter/Moss rearing it's ugly head.

[Nas]

A few things to keep in mind:

 

Jim has some valid points. Namely, Shockey's overhype and the fact that he's not an Elite TE.

 

I'd have to see Boss play a few more games before I elevate him to any status abover an aberation.

 

Hell, we may have the best of both world's situation where Shockey won't cost us as much.. and he gets to stay... and maybe live up to the hype one day.

[Chuck Wagon]

. I see him as a reclaimation project on some other team, maybe the Texans, that's where some of our rejects go.(Demps, Dayne). .

 

Lets not forget my favorite. Kevin Walter via Cinny.

 

C. Wagon

[boohyah]

A few things to keep in mind:

 

Jim has some valid points. Namely, Shockey's overhype and the fact that he's not an Elite TE.

 

I'd have to see Boss play a few more games before I elevate him to any status abover an aberation.

 

Hell, we may have the best of both world's situation where Shockey won't cost us as much.. and he gets to stay... and maybe live up to the hype one day.

 

 

I love you Nas, I see Shockey doesn't get the "eli" pass with you.

 

I got an idea, we should play that stud "Fat Lorenzen" at Tight end and get Boss and Shockey to hell outta here.

[BIGBLUE01]

I couldn't dissagree more, run 2 TE sets with both Boss and Shock going out for passes.

Shockey IS the New York Giants, he is one o0f the first people thought of when people here the teams name. And to be honest, I love the fact we have a guy other teams fans hate.

 

I agree VG, Shock is the face of our team, and he brings tons of energy.

 

Shockey may drop alot of passes, but everything else he does is irreplaceable. His blocking, his energy, his toughness. Think of him like Jeter, not clubbing 50+ HR's like Arod, but definatley a key contributor. Boss is a stud I believe though, I just wouldnt judge him that heavily on only 2 games.

[Iceman_NYG]

Shockey being equated to just dropped passes and penalties is too bloody unfair especially coming from a person who earlier on (including you and me) adored him as a player and as a Giant. Shockey is someone the entire league has to account for everytime they play the Giants and the as it is he is not being used in this shitty system the moron coaches are running. Boss was not accounted for at all in his 'starts' and hence he had decent games. There is a reason, the rest of the planet, knows it for a fact that he is a major X-factor and a valuable asset to the team - it being the our team, the Giants, and for that Im lucky. Lets look at other options for trade, because the problem does not lie here in our TE position - that is out strength, something other teams are actually jealous about. It lies in various other areas. Shockey is not going anywhere and the front office, even with its limited intelligence coupled with incompetent coaching, knows it.

[NeMesiS]

Shockey being equated to just dropped passes and penalties is too bloody unfair especially coming from a person who earlier on (including you and me) adored him as a player and as a Giant. Shockey is someone the entire league has to account for everytime they play the Giants and the as it is he is not being used in this shitty system the moron coaches are running. Boss was not accounted for at all in his 'starts' and hence he had decent games. There is a reason, the rest of the planet, knows it for a fact that he is a major X-factor and a valuable asset to the team - it being the our team, the Giants, and for that Im lucky. Lets look at other options for trade, because the problem does not lie here in our TE position - that is out strength, something other teams are actually jealous about. It lies in various other areas. Shockey is not going anywhere and the front office, even with its limited intelligence coupled with incompetent coaching, knows it.

Why do people keep saying Shockey drops so many passes? He had 6 drop passes last year, 5 the year before and I believe he had 4 this year. I mean, is that really alot of drop passes. But yet, Antonio Gates has 5 in one game and he is considered to be sure handed? 2 Years ago Tony Gonzalez had 10 - 12 drop passes, nearly doubling from Shockey total two year ago. And Shockey is the one with hands problems?

 

WTF

 

oh, and how many "Stupid" penalties did Shockey had last year? 2 at the most. how many this year? 2 also...get real guys.

[fishgutmartyr]

Why do people keep saying Shockey drops so many passes? He had 6 drop passes last year, 5 the year before and I believe he had 4 this year. I mean, is that really alot of drop passes. But yet, Antonio Gates has 5 in one game and he is considered to be sure handed? 2 Years ago Tony Gonzalez had 10 - 12 drop passes, nearly doubling from Shockey total two year ago. And Shockey is the one with hands problems?

 

WTF

 

oh, and how many "Stupid" penalties did Shockey had last year? 2 at the most. how many this year? 2 also...get real guys.

 

The same guys that complain he isn't used properly tend to be the same that say he's one of the better blockers in the league as far TEs go--so if his blocking skills are being used, why is he being used improperly? One would think that splitting him out wide all game would be a misuse of his talent, since he's such a great blocker.

 

He had something like 3 drops in one game early on in the season, and his drops tend to happen in crucial situations. Couple that with his supposedly not getting thrown to as much to as Gonzales (another common complaint), and you can see where the problem lies.

 

Only 2 stupid penalties a season? You're happy with that? Holding, OPI is one thing; taunting is completely different. He manages to take a first down reception and lose it twice a season? He shouldn't be getting ANY stupid penalties in a season. Neither should anyone else, for that matter.

[NeMesiS]

The same guys that complain he isn't used properly tend to be the same that say he's one of the better blockers in the league as far TEs go--so if his blocking skills are being used, why is he being used improperly? One would think that splitting him out wide all game would be a misuse of his talent, since he's such a great blocker.

 

I honestly don't understand what your point was here... Using Shockey for 3 yard curls is not using him properly.

He had something like 3 drops in one game early on in the season, and his drops tend to happen in crucial situations. Couple that with his supposedly not getting thrown to as much to as Gonzales (another common complaint), and you can see where the problem lies.

He had 2 drops against the Packers, not 3, and 2 the rest of the season.

 

Only 2 stupid penalties a season? You're happy with that? Holding, OPI is one thing; taunting is completely different. He manages to take a first down reception and lose it twice a season? He shouldn't be getting ANY stupid penalties in a season. Neither should anyone else, for that matter.

taunting who? who did he taunt?

[Allstarjim]

Boss really showed us a lot last night didn't he? He clearly has better hands than Shockey, and I like his size and toughness. I don't know what Shockey's contract is like, and don't even know if cutting him would be an option, but I like Boss as the starter. Shockey's career with the Giants has been marked by dropped passes just as much as the intensity he brings. I think a change of scenery would be good for him. And I have a team in mind I think he would be great on. The New Orleans Saints. Couldn't you see it? They need a pass-catching TE for Brees. I'm just watching the Saints on TV now, and they are way to reliant on Colston. Shockey's intensity and tough mentality would also add to that team, because I think they need more of both. Plus, he has history with Sean Payton. Boss would help us more than Shockey because he is probably better in protection and he definitely has softer hands. Eli needs the reliability and increased protection for him to excel further. What do you guys think?

 

 

Am I good or what? I know that it hasn't happened (yet, if at all), but you have to admit, that was prophetic. I have softened my stance on this, too. I'd really rather keep Shockey. I really think he could have the best season of his career next year now that Eli has turned the corner.