ksm7 Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 So the Dog has noticed that there still continues to be on-going debate regarding Manning/his progress/his worth...the trade was poor management for several reasons, but being that it cannot be undone, how many years, in your opinion, do you give Manning (or any drafted QB) to prove his worth? At the time of thr trade, many said it would be clear after three years how good/or bad a move it was...now that it is three years past, Manning supporters argue that it is too soon to judge him, while those disenchanted say it's past due for him to step up...How long should a team ride it out? Time for a health shake...the Dog will be checking in periodically...Enjoy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 I'm challeging the merit of the question. I think Eli has been good for us.. he just hasn't lived to the immense expectations we have of him. If we were to surround him by a dedicated supporting cast, then yea.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randoff Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Hello there Polish Sausage???!!!! Or is it Bad Egg? Poached Eggs....anyway, how many years should you give your favorite team the GIANTS a chance to get something out of their QB? I dunno? You tell me? What choice do we have (you and I being die hard Giants fans) in the selection of QB's? Should we have traded someone for Daunte Culpepper? Should we have tried to sign Jeff Garcia? Or wait....let's wait till Toni Roma is done with his contract and get him huh? I love it when folks make these 'commnts' about a player like Eli. Like it's that easy to dump a QB that's getting big money and find an instant replacement. This aint "Franchise Mode" in Madden '07. But anyway Mr. Egg or Mr. Hot Link...keep up the good work. We need more informative Giants fans like yourself to enlighten us. Love ya like a play cousin....PEACE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorillaNJ Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 So the Dog has noticed that there still continues to be on-going debate regarding Manning/his progress/his worth...the trade was poor management for several reasons, but being that it cannot be undone, how many years, in your opinion, do you give Manning (or any drafted QB) to prove his worth? At the time of thr trade, many said it would be clear after three years how good/or bad a move it was...now that it is three years past, Manning supporters argue that it is too soon to judge him, while those disenchanted say it's past due for him to step up...How long should a team ride it out? Time for a health shake...the Dog will be checking in periodically...Enjoy.... Eli has not had a bad enough season to say get rid of him... thats for certain. He has taken the team to the playoffs his two years as a starter, depite multiple injuries on both sides of the ball and an inept coaching staff. Has been middle of the pack in passer rating and near the top in TDs thrown. He was not worth 2 first round picks.... but if he keeps up a 77 passer rating and making the playoffs everyear he will not be an All-Pro but he will be a GIANT for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence the Blue Puppet Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 So the Dog has noticed that there still continues to be on-going debate regarding Manning/his progress/his worth...the trade was poor management for several reasons, but being that it cannot be undone, how many years, in your opinion, do you give Manning (or any drafted QB) to prove his worth? At the time of thr trade, many said it would be clear after three years how good/or bad a move it was...now that it is three years past, Manning supporters argue that it is too soon to judge him, while those disenchanted say it's past due for him to step up...How long should a team ride it out? Time for a health shake...the Dog will be checking in periodically...Enjoy.... If his last name wasn't Manning, this wouldn't even be a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 Hello there Polish Sausage???!!!! Or is it Bad Egg? Poached Eggs....anyway, how many years should you give your favorite team the GIANTS a chance to get something out of their QB? I dunno? You tell me? What choice do we have (you and I being die hard Giants fans) in the selection of QB's? Should we have traded someone for Daunte Culpepper? Should we have tried to sign Jeff Garcia? Or wait....let's wait till Toni Roma is done with his contract and get him huh? I love it when folks make these 'commnts' about a player like Eli. Like it's that easy to dump a QB that's getting big money and find an instant replacement. This aint "Franchise Mode" in Madden '07. But anyway Mr. Egg or Mr. Hot Link...keep up the good work. We need more informative Giants fans like yourself to enlighten us. Love ya like a play cousin....PEACE! ask a harmless and serious question, and the dog get's this type of odd response...the dog knows bad egg from years past on the old boards...that is all... the question still stands - the dog didn;t say it was easy to drop a high priced player, particularly a QB that has so much invested in him - the Dog was wondering how long you give a player to prove his value...the dog thinks you may have stability issues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 If his last name wasn't Manning, this wouldn't even be a question. Untrue...the Dog could place a number of names in place of Manning (i.e., Culpepper, Vick, Alex Smith...) and the question remains...what makes this more intriguing is that Manning was part of a poor trade that increased his value before he took the field, and well, with this being a Giants message board and all, the Dog figured he should stick to that topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randoff Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 ask a harmless and serious question, and the dog get's this type of odd response...the dog knows bad egg from years past on the old boards...that is all... the question still stands - the dog didn;t say it was easy to drop a high priced player, particularly a QB that has so much invested in him - the Dog was wondering how long you give a player to prove his value...the dog thinks you may have stability issues... I guess the Giants management makes that determination... So Mr. Hot Link? U want us to give up on our team just because the QB situation (in your eyes) hasn't "panned" out? That would be just like saying "I'm only giving Tony Romo 3 years to win a Superbowl or I am jumping OFF the Cowboy Bandwagon" or "If the Cowboys wouldn't have gotten rid of Bledsoe after two years I was gonna become a Giants fan". Maybe it's how you and Bad Eggs became Giants fans. You got tired of the Bledsoe experiment and deep down you don't feel all that comfortable with Toni Roma. So are you giving Toni Roma ONE full season or else?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 I guess the Giants management makes that determination... So Mr. Hot Link? U want us to give up on our team just because the QB situation (in your eyes) hasn't "panned" out? That would be just like saying "I'm only giving Tony Romo 3 years to win a Superbowl or I am jumping OFF the Cowboy Bandwagon" or "If the Cowboys wouldn't have gotten rid of Bledsoe after two years I was gonna become a Giants fan". Maybe it's how you and Bad Eggs became Giants fans. You got tired of the Bledsoe experiment and deep down you don't feel all that comfortable with Toni Roma. So are you giving Toni Roma ONE full season or else?? clearly you are taking a simple discussion into something it is not...the Dog isn't suggesting that anyone give up on a team as you are suggesting....the Dog suggests having someone near by you read the question out loud to you as you read it silently to yourself to better process what is being asked... As for Tony Romo, the Dog finds him relevant to this discussion only in so much as the question can also apply to him - how long is reasonable to give him to prove his value... For the record, the Dog is neither a giants or cowboys fan...The Italian Hotdog does wonder of you have an opinion to the original question, or do you just enjoy provoking irrelevant banter in the hopes of stirring up trouble.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaginCaucasian Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 ask a harmless and serious question, and the dog get's this type of odd response...the dog knows bad egg from years past on the old boards...that is all... the question still stands - the dog didn;t say it was easy to drop a high priced player, particularly a QB that has so much invested in him - the Dog was wondering how long you give a player to prove his value...the dog thinks you may have stability issues... The fact that you even responded to his post confirms the suspicion. Furthermore, I don't think too many fans out there would argue with a guy who throws 24 TD's per season, has made the playoffs each of the years that he has been named the starting QB for the entire season & has a division title to his name. BTW, anyone who responds to posts in the 3'rd person definatley has stability issues, or is too full of themself for words to describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 The fact that you even responded to his post confirms the suspicion. The Dog doesn't follow your logic here... Furthermore, I don't think too many fans out there would argue with a guy who throws 24 TD's per season, has made the playoffs each of the years that he has been named the starting QB for the entire season & has a division title to his name. Fair enough...your opinion has been respectfully noted... BTW, anyone who responds to posts in the 3'rd person definatley has stability issues, or is too full of themself for words to describe. Few are able to fully comprehend the elegant beauty that is the Italian Hotdog...there have been a few noted instances when individuals have fainted in awe in the Dog's presence...these are truely moments that are most memorable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadEgg Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Dog, the answer to your question depends on perspective: From the perspective of the Giants front office: After getting raped on draft day by the CHargers, there is no time table for the QB, whatever his name may be, to prove his value. In the meantime, while this QB continues to flounder with marginal leagership skills, and no accurracy or consistency, you hope that you can appease the fans with lame excuses, maybe you blame the coach, or even lie to yourself until you actually believe it was a good move all in the hopes that this QB gets lucky one day, and wins a playoff game or two. Then, be it 5 years later or 12 years later, you may be able to look yourself in the mirror again... From the perspective of a Dallas Fan: Sit back, enjoy and hope the alleged QB never gets benched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaginCaucasian Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 From the perspective of a Dallas Fan: Sit back, enjoy and hope the alleged QB never gets benched watch the Cowboys not win a playoff game for the 11'th straight year. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randoff Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 As for Tony Romo, the Dog finds him relevant to this discussion only in so much as the question can also apply to him - how long is reasonable to give him to prove his value... For the record, the Dog is neither a giants or cowboys fan...The Italian Hotdog does wonder of you have an opinion to the original question, or do you just enjoy provoking irrelevant banter in the hopes of stirring up trouble.... I don't place 'reasonable' timetables on QBs. I was a Giant fan before the Eli trade...a Giants fan before the Kerry Collins pick up....and I was never one to put up a 'time' limit on a QB. So what you're asking is (in your eyes) Eli hasn't proven anything as far as what the Giants gave up to get him...and I should set a "put up now or be traded Eli" meter. I can't do that. Reasons why is that was the Giants decision to 'invest' in Eli, and second reason is this is a TEAM sport. It takes good Defense, good O line protection, running game, etc to win in this league. So again I guess you want me to say "Hey If Eli doesn't improve in 2 years let's cut him and start all over" and "If the Giants don't do that, I will jump ship to the hot team the Cowboys, they have Toni Roma!" Mr. Summer Sausage??? Who's your favorite team in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randoff Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Dog, the answer to your question depends on perspective: After getting raped on draft day by the CHargers, there is no time table for the QB, whatever his name may be, to prove his value. In the meantime, while this QB continues to flounder with marginal leagership skills, and no accurracy or consistency, you hope that you can appease the fans with lame excuses, maybe you blame the coach, or even lie to yourself until you actually believe it was a good move all in the hopes that this QB gets lucky one day, and wins a playoff game or two. Then, be it 5 years later or 12 years later, you may be able to look yourself in the mirror again... From the perspective of a Dallas Fan: The statement in red proves to me ONE thing. YOU ARE a Giants fan! You sound real upset (similar to me) when we Giants fans felt that we got "raped" on draft day. And IF you are a Cowboys fan (I fail to believe it) how DOES it feel not winning a playoff game since 1996? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 I don't place 'reasonable' timetables on QBs. I was a Giant fan before the Eli trade...a Giants fan before the Kerry Collins pick up....and I was never one to put up a 'time' limit on a QB. So what you're asking is (in your eyes) Eli hasn't proven anything as far as what the Giants gave up to get him...and I should set a "put up now or be traded Eli" meter. I can't do that. Reasons why is that was the Giants decision to 'invest' in Eli, and second reason is this is a TEAM sport. It takes good Defense, good O line protection, running game, etc to win in this league. So again I guess you want me to say "Hey If Eli doesn't improve in 2 years let's cut him and start all over" and "If the Giants don't do that, I will jump ship to the hot team the Cowboys, they have Toni Roma!" Mr. Summer Sausage??? Who's your favorite team in the NFL? The Dog is not asking you to say anything you don't want to say...quite simply, if you feel that it is unfair to put a timetable on a QB's progress, then so be it...The Dog humbley disagrees, as in todays day and age in the NFL, with free agency being what it is, teams have less time to develop players in key positions...that being said, the Dog doesn't have an issue with Manning being deserving of more then 3 years to gauge progress...the Dog is simply looking for opinions on the matter... As for your "Team Sport" comment - the Dog concurs, which is one reason that the trade was a poor management move... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 I'm challeging the merit of the question. I think Eli has been good for us.. he just hasn't lived to the immense expectations we have of him. If we were to surround him by a dedicated supporting cast, then yea.. I agree with this, and furthermore, the Dog has miscalculated Eli's time with us. Yeah, this is his 4th yr on the team, but it will only be his THIRD yr starting. Thats what we have to judge by. After this yr we will have 3 full seasons in which to judge him, and thats what experts mean by "givin him 3 years." Being thrown into the season w/ 6 games left and facing the 5 top D's in those 6 games is not judgable. Well actually, if it is, then he gets an A+, because he progressively got better each game, up to and including the Dallas finale, where he saw the D and called the right audible to win the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted June 20, 2007 Author Share Posted June 20, 2007 I agree with this, and furthermore, the Dog has miscalculated Eli's time with us. Yeah, this is his 4th yr on the team, but it will only be his THIRD yr starting. Thats what we have to judge by. After this yr we will have 3 full seasons in which to judge him, and thats what experts mean by "givin him 3 years." Being thrown into the season w/ 6 games left and facing the 5 top D's in those 6 games is not judgable. Well actually, if it is, then he gets an A+, because he progressively got better each game, up to and including the Dallas finale, where he saw the D and called the right audible to win the game. Interesting point - as a student, the Dog would have loved your grading scale...a place where you can fail 83% of the time, but since you make progress each test, you get an A+... For clarification, the Dog suggests failure for losses...perhaps unfair... Be that as it may, your points have been aknowledged... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randoff Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Mr. Dog? Who's yer fave NFL team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadEgg Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 The statement in red proves to me ONE thing. YOU ARE a Giants fan! You sound real upset (similar to me) when we Giants fans felt that we got "raped" on draft day. And IF you are a Cowboys fan (I fail to believe it) how DOES it feel not winning a playoff game since 1996? It doesn't hurt as much as you think after winning three Superbowls in four years... How does it feel not winning a Superbowl in 16 years? Were you even alive then? Did you watch that game live? Or did you just see the video of Norwood handing them the game and decide, at that moment, that you were a Giants fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randoff Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 It doesn't hurt as much as you think after winning three Superbowls in four years... How does it feel not winning a Superbowl in 16 years? Were you even alive then? Did you watch that game live? Or did you just see the video of Norwood handing them the game and decide, at that moment, that you were a Giants fan? I'm willing to BET that you was like 2 yrs old when the Dallas Cowboys won a playoff game. And to answer your question: I've been a Giant fan since 1981 baby boy. And IF you really understood football (I assume that u do) when Mr. Norwood supposedly 'handed' the Giants a Superbowl...didja ever think of this??? Norwood's attempt wasn't a 'gimmie' make. Plus IF the Bills really would have wanted it or the Giants were so 'gifted' or 'lucky' why couldn't the Bills get closer so that Norwood would have had a chip shot? Or how is it that the high powered Offense of the Bills only scoring 19 points?? How the the "boring" ass Giants with a backup QB score twenty??? But since you are a fan, I suggest u subscribe to NFL Network and watch the Giants win in that Superbowl again. You prolly was too young (or not born yet) to remember what really happened in 1991. Better yet, borrow you Grandads 'Superbowls on DVD' and brush up on your Superbowl history. We can't have fans like you mis-informed. You were sounding intelligent until the last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I'm willing to BET that you was like 2 yrs old when the Dallas Cowboys won a playoff game. And to answer your question: I've been a Giant fan since 1981 baby boy. And IF you really understood football (I assume that u do) when Mr. Norwood supposedly 'handed' the Giants a Superbowl...didja ever think of this??? Norwood's attempt wasn't a 'gimmie' make. Plus IF the Bills really would have wanted it or the Giants were so 'gifted' or 'lucky' why couldn't the Bills get closer so that Norwood would have had a chip shot? Or how is it that the high powered Offense of the Bills only scoring 19 points?? How the the "boring" ass Giants with a backup QB score twenty??? But since you are a fan, I suggest u subscribe to NFL Network and watch the Giants win in that Superbowl again. You prolly was too young (or not born yet) to remember what really happened in 1991. Better yet, borrow you Grandads 'Superbowls on DVD' and brush up on your Superbowl history. We can't have fans like you mis-informed. You were sounding intelligent until the last post. ran, youre puttin it to him..lol Been a giants fan almost as long randoff, except I got 3 yrs on ya LT did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 So the Dog has noticed that there still continues to be on-going debate regarding Manning/his progress/his worth...the trade was poor management for several reasons, but being that it cannot be undone, how many years, in your opinion, do you give Manning (or any drafted QB) to prove his worth? At the time of thr trade, many said it would be clear after three years how good/or bad a move it was...now that it is three years past, Manning supporters argue that it is too soon to judge him, while those disenchanted say it's past due for him to step up...How long should a team ride it out? Time for a health shake...the Dog will be checking in periodically...Enjoy.... Five years is more than reasonable. Now the $20 questions, what is success? Pro Bowl, All Pro, Division champs I say given what was traded to get him (and what those pieces could have meant to the G-Man had they kept them) and the hype associated with Manning ...anything short of Super Bowl Appearance by 2010 means we pissed this down our legs. C. Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Interesting point - as a student, the Dog would have loved your grading scale...a place where you can fail 83% of the time, but since you make progress each test, you get an A+... For clarification, the Dog suggests failure for losses...perhaps unfair... Be that as it may, your points have been aknowledged... Much different grading a QB than school test scores. C'mon dog, you know that. Im speaking in the time we've had Eli. If his entire career ends this way, then yes, failure. But as of now, he's not doing as bad as some say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadEgg Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I'm willing to BET that you was like 2 yrs old when the Dallas Cowboys won a playoff game. And to answer your question: I've been a Giant fan since 1981 baby boy. And IF you really understood football (I assume that u do) when Mr. Norwood supposedly 'handed' the Giants a Superbowl...didja ever think of this??? Norwood's attempt wasn't a 'gimmie' make. Plus IF the Bills really would have wanted it or the Giants were so 'gifted' or 'lucky' why couldn't the Bills get closer so that Norwood would have had a chip shot? Or how is it that the high powered Offense of the Bills only scoring 19 points?? How the the "boring" ass Giants with a backup QB score twenty??? But since you are a fan, I suggest u subscribe to NFL Network and watch the Giants win in that Superbowl again. You prolly was too young (or not born yet) to remember what really happened in 1991. Better yet, borrow you Grandads 'Superbowls on DVD' and brush up on your Superbowl history. We can't have fans like you mis-informed. You were sounding intelligent until the last post. I guess you're right. It's was a low blow to call the Giants lucky. But had the Giants finished off the Bills to the tune of 52-17 or 30-13 their really would be no need to analyze that fieldgoal attempt which, incidently, happened to be long enough... No matter how you look at it, the word "choke" still comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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