i've said it before and i'll say it again

[gmenroc]

Fassel was a decent coach. Not the league's best, but by far not the worst. Like any coach, he made some questionable decisions. Like any coach, he took some big risks. He ran his course with the Giants and looking back, he had some successes and some failures.

 

You can say a lot of the same things about Coughlin. We'll just have to see how we expand upon the successes and how much we can limit the failures.

 

Talent level was fairly equal in these two tenures given the talent level of our division opponents. In other words, we might have had less talent at one time or another, but so too did our division opponents. We might have more talent now, but again, so too do our division opponents.

 

Oh, and Madison didn't bail us out on that play last night. Bledsoe made an absolutely horrible throw that ultimately got him benched. Bledsoe completes a TD pass there, putting his team up 14-12, and we don't see Romo for at least another week.

[JayD]

The man got us a 4-2 record in by far the hardest 6 game stretch in the league. No one can say Coughlin has done wrong to the NYG.

[boohyah]

and they mailed it in. this team will turn on coughlin faster than they did on fassel as soon as we have a team that's expected to compete get decimated by injuries. coughlin's lucky that was his first year of the contract and nothing was expected of us.

 

boohyah raises a good point though, EA cheaped out on special teams positions for a LONG time. matt allen, rodney williams, matt bryant, owen ponchman, trey junkin, am i missing anyone here? how long did it take to finally sign a good kicker who wasn't working in a pawn shop weeks earlier? how long did it take to get someone in here who could convert on 3rd and short? you know how much fassel could've benefited from having someone as automatic as jacobs on 3rd and short? or a tall playmaking receiver in burress? or a line that didn't include the likes of ian allen, chris bober or wayne lucier? or charles stackhouse at fb?

 

Midas, to be fair EA did draft Ron Dayne in the first round to eventually end up on special teams.

[boohyah]

The man got us a 4-2 record in by far the hardest 6 game stretch in the league. No one can say Coughlin has done wrong to the NYG.

 

 

2 players have called out the coaching publically in the last year. 2 star players. it's not just us on the message board. For players to do that there's got to be an issue. Plus, we're playing a lot better since Shockey spoke up, whether he was right or wrong to do so.

[Herc]

They lost Williams and Wilson in that safety spot, and were down to the 3rd string. The defensive line was a shambles, the QB was a rookie. The OLine was Pettigout, Whittle, O'Hara, a rookie Snee, and at RT Diehl. They were losing games, but some were close, which was surprising considering some of the defenses they played. They won the last game--that wouldn't have happened if they mailed it in.

 

I'll admit I like Coughlin better than Fassel, but I don't think he's great, either. But you have to admit, the past 3 years were a hell of a lot more fun than most of the previous 10+.

 

why? we made the playoffs once and got shut out. i'll take 3 playoff trips out of 7 seasons and a super bowl run over what coughlin has given us so far

[Herc]

The man got us a 4-2 record in by far the hardest 6 game stretch in the league. No one can say Coughlin has done wrong to the NYG.

 

he hasn't done good either. we beat the teams we were supposed to beat and lost to the teams we weren't supposed to beat. what's so exceptional about his coaching? can you poitn to any of our wins and say "good thing coughlin was at the helm".

[Herc]

Midas, to be fair EA did draft Ron Dayne in the first round to eventually end up on special teams.

 

that's what im saying though, EA is a big reason why we had these clowns on our team. most of them had no business being in the NFL as can be seen on their resumes after the years they left the giants

[boohyah]

that's what im saying though, EA is a big reason why we had these clowns on our team. most of them had no business being in the NFL as can be seen on their resumes after the years they left the giants

 

 

Hold on a second, don't talk bad about Omar Stoutmire like that. It's not often you get a chance to pick up a guy released by a last place Jets team and be able to make him your starter. That's good.....ummm...GMing!

[boohyah]

that's what im saying though, EA is a big reason why we had these clowns on our team. most of them had no business being in the NFL as can be seen on their resumes after the years they left the giants

 

 

Shaun Williams just served me at McDonalds and he fucked up my order!

[Herc]

Hold on a second, don't talk bad about Omar Stoutmire like that. It's not often you get a chance to pick up a guy released by a last place Jets team and be able to make him your starter. That's good.....ummm...GMing!

 

don't forget kevin lewis.

 

another HORRIBLE MOVE by tom coughlin, starting kevin lewis at MLB all year two seasons ago when greisen was clearly better

[Herc]

Shaun Williams just served me at McDonalds and he fucked up my order!

 

give him a break, he loses his head in pressure situations. just ask TO

[boohyah]

don't forget kevin lewis.

 

another HORRIBLE MOVE by tom coughlin, starting kevin lewis at MLB all year two seasons ago when greisen was clearly better

 

 

Well now talk about a topsy turvy world will ya. One year he's the starter, then in camp he's cut, then he's available to be picked up just before seasons end, and actually plays well. Weird wild stuff.

[gmenroc]

Shaun Williams just served me at McDonalds and he fucked up my order!

 

Let me guess....he dropped it

[JayD]

You guys are fucking crazy. We havent been this good since 1990. An you all have the nerve to bitch. Amazing.

[Herc]

You guys are fucking crazy. We havent been this good since 1990. An you all have the nerve to bitch. Amazing.

 

when this team makes the superbowl, THEN you can say we haven't been this good since 1990. you're acting like we're undefeated here thanks entirely to coughlin

[fishgutmartyr]

why? we made the playoffs once and got shut out. i'll take 3 playoff trips out of 7 seasons and a super bowl run over what coughlin has given us so far

Even if that shut out is in his second year, and the team's record has consistently improved since 2003? Even when the 3 playoff trips out of 7 seasons wound up in utterly humiliating defeats, including a wholesale choke and a loss that involved teammates fighting each other on the field?

[fishgutmartyr]

don't forget kevin lewis.

 

another HORRIBLE MOVE by tom coughlin, starting kevin lewis at MLB all year two seasons ago when greisen was clearly better

Keep in mind that Greisen was supposed to start at middle linebacker, but was injured most of preseason. Lewis won the position.

[Nas]

Tom Coughlin is 4-2. 3-0 in the division against the toughest schedule in the league to start the season.

 

I in no way discount what Fassel did, but in 1997 and more importantly 2000 the competition was nowhere near as fearce as what it is now. I agree some shoddy calls tonight, the 3rd and 1 up 12-0 was moronic not running the ball, but lets be honest we are probably the MOST IMPRESSIVE 4-2 in the league and IMO the best 4-2 we have been in years since the NFC east was the beast it was in the 80's.

 

You know... everyone is taking notice too. And when I think we could've won that game against the Colts but we lucked out against the Eagles, imo.. so they cancel each other out. With the toughest schedule and more tough game to come (Chicago, Jacksonville, NO)... I'm happy with how our team has been playing.

 

Sure I would've much rather seen us run the ball on that third and one but hey.. we took a chance. Dallas is very good against the run and they were so ready for a running play. That play could've easily been a touchdown. And we're not expected to play a flawless game either.

 

And just when Lavar shows us what he's capable of doing...

[xxi-xxv]

he hasn't done good either. we beat the teams we were supposed to beat and lost to the teams we weren't supposed to beat. what's so exceptional about his coaching? can you poitn to any of our wins and say "good thing coughlin was at the helm".

 

The Giants have been underdogs this year

@home vs the Colts

@ Philly vs the Eagles

@Seattle vs the Seahawks

@Atlanta vs the Falcons

@Dalls vs the Boys

We are 3-2 in those games, when you are 3-2 in games you were a dog its hard to say we have not beaten teams we were not supposed to beat.

 

Remarkably this Sunday the 4-2 Giants will be favored for only the 2nd time all year. The only other time was @ home vs the SKins and that was a 3.5 line.

[boohyah]

You guys are fucking crazy. We havent been this good since 1990. An you all have the nerve to bitch. Amazing.

 

 

How do you determine after 6 games that this is the best we've been since 1990 and call others crazy??

 

People can bitch if they want to. A lot of coaches in this league get by on the strength of their position coaches or their abundance of talent. History has shown Coughlin has benefitted from this before. Midas makes a good point.

[gateb]

thats right they were 7-2 got beat by the Trent Green/Trung Candidate Rams at home and then Sehorn lost his pants vs the Lions the next week

That was one of the ugliest games I've ever gone to. Ugh. Still got images of Dexter McCleon getting his INT that day. 38-24 or something like that, right?

[fishgutmartyr]

How do you determine after 6 games that this is the best we've been since 1990 and call others crazy??

 

People can bitch if they want to. A lot of coaches in this league get by on the strength of their position coaches or their abundance of talent. History has shown Coughlin has benefitted from this before. Midas makes a good point.

In his stint with this team, I'd say that Coughlin's staff has been more of a hinderance than a benefit. But that's subjective.

 

But to fault a coach for gathering a good staff is kind of like blaming a firefighter for running around with hoses. Part of the job. He's supposed to gather a good staff.

 

Same with helping to evaluate free agents and draftees. I really find it hard to believe that EA suddenly decided to open the checkbook solely because Fassel left. I'm not saying the success in getting good players over the last few years is only because of Coughlin, but there is obviously better communication between the coaches and the front office than there was in the past. Maybe it has more to do with Reese and Abrams. Who knows?

 

If you're going to fault him, I'd have to say it's his stubborness. He is completely resistant to change in his strategy, and completely incapable of accepting criticism of himself or his staff. I think he's a good logistical coach, but a pretty lousy gameday coach.

[Dre180]

In his stint with this team, I'd say that Coughlin's staff has been more of a hinderance than a benefit. But that's subjective.

 

But to fault a coach for gathering a good staff is kind of like blaming a firefighter for running around with hoses. Part of the job. He's supposed to gather a good staff.

 

Same with helping to evaluate free agents and draftees. I really find it hard to believe that EA suddenly decided to open the checkbook solely because Fassel left. I'm not saying the success in getting good players over the last few years is only because of Coughlin, but there is obviously better communication between the coaches and the front office than there was in the past. Maybe it has more to do with Reese and Abrams. Who knows?

 

If you're going to fault him, I'd have to say it's his stubborness. He is completely resistant to change in his strategy, and completely incapable of accepting criticism of himself or his staff. I think he's a good logistical coach, but a pretty lousy gameday coach.

 

 

i disagree. you can't say he's a lousy gameday coach, b/c he has proven otherwise. he took a near expansion team to the afc championship game and got them there twice. he has turned around this franchise that was left in complete dissaray when fassel left. he may not be a people person, but you have to respect him because of what he is able to do on the field. he also took this team, that could have easily folded in this season, and completely turned that around. eli may not be a pro bowler at this point, but coughlin has done a very good job bringing him along. he is a great offensive mind, and i hope he stays here. is he perfect? by no means but we could certainly be a lot worse off, so be careful what you wish for..

[xxi-xxv]

Bottom line is this, until COughlins tenure as the Giants coach is over we cannot compare the two. Early returns are that Coughlin(at least for now) is able to better sustain success as opposed to 1 good year, 2 bad 1 good 1 bad etc.

 

As for the idea of free agents, its not like under Fassel they did not sign any. The 2000 teams entire left side of their O line were free agents as was center Dusty Zeigler. Ditto on MLB Mike Barrow.

 

As for the talent, I have to give TC some of the credit for better drafts. Although he is not the GM, he has input and since the drafs have been better since 2004, I have to assume that he has helped in that regard.

[boohyah]

In terms of bringing in players, let's see what the Giants have done since Coughlin became coach.

 

- gave up the ship to get Eli.

 

- Plaxico Burress

 

- kareem McKenzie

 

-Sam madison

 

- Will Demps

 

- Lavar Arrington

 

- Jay Feely ( when was the last time we splashed out on a kicker)

 

- Carlos emmons

 

- Barrett Green (yep, this guy got paid)

 

 

Just in that list, is a bunch of players that ernie would never have bothered to bring in during Fassels days, and when he did it was guys like fucking Brian Mitchell ( a game changer!!!). Ernie admitted in the last few years that the Giants had to go the free agency route more than they used to. And if you remember down in Jacksonville the amount of money Coughlin spent on players....... well there's a common denominator there for you.