i've said it before and i'll say it again

[Herc]

tom coughlin blows. why is drew bledsoe's TD not being challenged? why are we throwing towards the end of the half from our own 15 and the cowboys have 1 timeout left? why are we throwing 40 yard bombs in the end zone on 3rd and short? thank god this team has talent, otherwise we'd be doomed with this guy at the helm

[gateb]

We got too addicted to the big play. Our team's best production will be off of efficient runs and passes, not the deep throws. Although Plax was in the right matchup on that bomb, that play isn't a high percentage play.

 

I think the refs are being a little bit inconsistent with PI calls tonight. Webster didn't do that much. Madison and TO both had incidental contact, yet Madison got called. And Plax didn't do that much to deserve the OPI call. Oh well.

[boohyah]

tom coughlin blows. why is drew bledsoe's TD not being challenged? why are we throwing towards the end of the half from our own 15 and the cowboys have 1 timeout left? why are we throwing 40 yard bombs in the end zone on 3rd and short? thank god this team has talent, otherwise we'd be doomed with this guy at the helm

 

Of course he throws on 3rd and short, we don't have a 250lb running back on our roster!

 

[mickeef2]

tom coughlin blows. why is drew bledsoe's TD not being challenged? why are we throwing towards the end of the half from our own 15 and the cowboys have 1 timeout left? why are we throwing 40 yard bombs in the end zone on 3rd and short? thank god this team has talent, otherwise we'd be doomed with this guy at the helm

 

I knida agree with not challenging Bledsoe's TD, only because it still woul've been 2nd down on the 1 inch line. Why waste the challenge (there was still no guarantee it would be overruled, although he didn't appear to get in)? The clock mgmt. at the end of the half was abyssmal. I'm not totally opposed to throwing long on 3rd and short in that situation. He was going for the jugular, it was just a bad throw/route.

 

There are many guys out there I'd rather have than Coughlin. But you were a Fassel guy, Bro. I'll take Coughlin over Jimmy boy any day of the week.

[boohyah]

I knida agree with not challenging Bledsoe's TD, only because it still woul've been 2nd down on the 1 inch line. Why waste the challenge? The clock mgmt. at the end of the half was abyssmal. I'm not totally opposed to throwing long on 3rd and short in that situation. He was going for the jugular, it was just a bad throw/route.

 

There are many guys out there I'd rather have than Coughlin. But you were a Fassel guy, Bro. I'll take Coughlin over Jimmy boy any day of the week.

 

 

I'm a Fassel, but I so want Coughlin to prove me wrong about him, but he simply doesn't.

 

Meanwhile in Chicago, Lovie sits back plotting his next victim.

[Herc]

I knida agree with not challenging Bledsoe's TD, only because it still woul've been 2nd down on the 1 inch line. Why waste the challenge? The clock mgmt. at the end of the half was abyssmal. I'm not totally opposed to throwing long on 3rd and short in that situation. He was going for the jugular, it was just a bad throw/route.

 

There are many guys out there I'd rather have than Coughlin. But you were a Fassel guy, Bro. I'll take Coughlin over Jimmy boy any day of the week.

 

that makes one of us. when coughlin has 11 starters on the IR he'll lose this team WAY faster tahn fassel did. coughlin was brought here to install discipline, where is it? all we did was break our taem record for penalties BOTH seasons he was our coach. the team doesnt like him and will put up with him until we start losing. give fassel a relatively healthy team (until the end of last season), burress, mckenzie, pierce, feely, eli, jacobs, and snee and i dont see him not winning the division last season, especially since he won the division with WAY less talent before. the only thing coughlin has done is clean up our special teams play. that's all i'll give him credit for.

 

i've said many times fassel has to be fired that season. he lost the team and we needed a change. i only defend fassel when people say he was a bad coach, because for themost part he was fairly successful.

[mickeef2]

that makes one of us. when coughlin has 11 starters on the IR he'll lose this team WAY faster tahn fassel did. coughlin was brought here to install discipline, where is it? all we did was break our taem record for penalties BOTH seasons he was our coach. the team doesnt like him and will put up with him until we start losing. give fassel a relatively healthy team (until the end of last season), burress, mckenzie, pierce, feely, eli, jacobs, and snee and i dont see him not winning the division last season, especially since he won the division with WAY less talent before. the only thing coughlin has done is clean up our special teams play. that's all i'll give him credit for.

 

i've said many times fassel has to be fired that season. he lost the team and we needed a change. i only defend fassel when people say he was a bad coach, because for themost part he was fairly successful.

 

I agree Coughlin sucks, and I wanted him here. But he's better than Fassel. Talent or no talent (and please, Fassel had plenty of talent through his tenure), Fassel blew 19 and 24 point leads in the playoffs.

[Herc]

I agree Coughlin sucks, and I wanted him here. But he's better than Fassel. Talent or no talent (and please, Fassel had plenty of talent through his tenure), Fassel blew 19 and 24 point leads in the playoffs.

 

fassel won the division his very first year of coaching with danny kanell at qb and no RB (way led our team in rushing that year). he definitely has his flaws but i dont see how he wouldn't win the division last season with this kind of talent. remember how horrible we were on 3rd and short? we had garbage kickers after daluiso got hurt and accorsi didnt open up the checkbook for that position till coughlin was here. same goes for our punter position too once maynard left. and collins vs eli? advantage coughlin. sure fassel had a talented team in 2002 and his team choked in a yankees-esque fashion--but fassel didn't sign matt allan, matt bryant and trey junkin--we were very cheap with those positions until that debacle and coughlin, but last year was arguably our most talented team since our last championship season and i can't see any decent head coach not winning the division. fassel was also a lot better at hiring a coaching staff too. lewis has kind of taken the heat off his own back lately but i have nothing but negative things to say about hufnagel.

 

anyway, the issue here is about coughlin. fassel's gone and i agreed the time was right to let him go. if we both agree coughlin sucks then let's stick to that topic

[xxi-xxv]

Tom Coughlin is 4-2. 3-0 in the division against the toughest schedule in the league to start the season.

 

I in no way discount what Fassel did, but in 1997 and more importantly 2000 the competition was nowhere near as fearce as what it is now. I agree some shoddy calls tonight, the 3rd and 1 up 12-0 was moronic not running the ball, but lets be honest we are probably the MOST IMPRESSIVE 4-2 in the league and IMO the best 4-2 we have been in years since the NFC east was the beast it was in the 80's.

[fringe]

well, the giants had a major brain fart at the end of the first half. luckily, tiki bailed us out, twice. that clock management and play selection was awful. They sobered up at halftime and called an excellent second half.

[xxi-xxv]

well, the giants had a major brain fart at the end of the first half. luckily, tiki bailed us out, twice. that clock management and play selection was awful. They sobered up at halftime and called an excellent second half.

 

Sam Madison bailed us out, they score there and its 14-12 after the way we played and who knows.

[fringe]

Sam Madison bailed us out, they score there and its 14-12 after the way we played and who knows.

i was talking about after that, xman.

[xxi-xxv]

i was talking about after that, xman.

 

Yes Tiki played well as did the defense and Eli's red zone execution after the turnover to start the 2nd half was excellent. Its almost like they want to preserve Shockey for the 2nd half.

 

Eli played an efficient game and aside from that stupid throw that should have never been called he played a fine game.

[boohyah]

Tom Coughlin is 4-2. 3-0 in the division against the toughest schedule in the league to start the season.

 

I in no way discount what Fassel did, but in 1997 and more importantly 2000 the competition was nowhere near as fearce as what it is now. I agree some shoddy calls tonight, the 3rd and 1 up 12-0 was moronic not running the ball, but lets be honest we are probably the MOST IMPRESSIVE 4-2 in the league and IMO the best 4-2 we have been in years since the NFC east was the beast it was in the 80's.

 

 

We did not have the talent during Fassel's run than we do now. I wish people would realize that we've spent more money on free agents in the last 2 -3 years in Coughlin's run than we did the 7 of Fassel's, even that one year we replaced half the team, we never spent the money we're doing now. People have to start giving fassel his due, he had 4 winning seasons out of 7, that last year they gave up and had a shitload of injuries, and he got us to a superbowl. When he made the announcement that the team would make the playoffs, he put his neck square on the line and came through and it's one of the greatest moments in giants history and you have to be ignorant to not recognize that. If you think fassel's run was bad, then compare it to Coughlin's run in jacksonville, where he had tons of moneyto spend. Fassel did better.

[xxi-xxv]

We did not have the talent during Fassel's run than we do now. I wish people would realize that we've spent more money on free agents in the last 2 -3 years in Coughlin's run than we did the 7 of Fassel's, even that one year we replaced half the team, we never spent the money we're doing now. People have to start giving fassel his due, he had 4 winning seasons out of 7, that last year they gave up and had a shitload of injuries, and he got us to a superbowl. When he made the announcement that the team would make the playoffs, he put his neck square on the line and came through and it's one of the greatest moments in giants history and you have to be ignorant to not recognize that. If you think fassel's run was bad, then compare it to Coughlin's run in jacksonville, where he had tons of moneyto spend. Fassel did better.

 

he was actually

10-5-1

8-8

7-9

12-4

7-9

10-6

4-12

 

which was 3 winning seasons in 7. True we spent money in free agency, but some of the losses(Minny playoff, Niner playoff, Dallas MNF up by 3 with 40 seconds, Philly Westbrook punt return) were inconcieveable. Fassel gets his due from me no doubt, but we have to ask ourselves, why has he interviewed for over 10 jobs and not gotten one of them?

 

All due respect Booyah, but with 2 Super Bowl titles, 5 NFL titles and a history that rivals any in the NFL Jim Fassel guaranteeing the playoffs with a 7-4 record and a game vs the horrendous Cardinals upcoming does not rank up there as one of our greatest moments. 41-0 does, but it was pretty much set that in a pathetic NFC year in 2000 the Giants were making the playoffs, even after getting detroyed at home by the Rams that year.

[fringe]

how many times are we going to have the same fassel discussion? :brooding:

[boohyah]

he was actually

10-5-1

8-8

7-9

12-4

7-9

10-6

4-12

 

which was 3 winning seasons in 7. True we spent money in free agency, but some of the losses(Minny playoff, Niner playoff, Dallas MNF up by 3 with 40 seconds, Philly Westbrook punt return) were inconcieveable. Fassel gets his due from me no doubt, but we have to ask ourselves, why has he interviewed for over 10 jobs and not gotten one of them?

 

 

You're right, like I said in an earlier thread, I've heard some shit through the grapevine that Fassel got badmouthed by the Giants when interviewing, in particular with the Bills job which he was supposed to have had in his hands till the Bills called the Giants to speak to them about him, suddenly it was gone. It is bizarre.

 

But now, think about this, the Giants wanted Coughlin out of BC, and they've had a hard on for Coughlin for years. coughlin was fired by the Jags and if he was so good, why didn't he get snapped up by someone. Yet here are the Giants, just after firing fassel, and they hire Coughlin right away, they didn't even consider anyone else, only maybe Lovie Smith, but they snapped Coughlin up right away. he wasn't even in the running for any other job. My point being, did they sign him because he was a good coach or because he was an old Parcells disciple.

[boohyah]

he was actually

10-5-1

8-8

7-9

12-4

7-9

10-6

4-12

 

which was 3 winning seasons in 7. True we spent money in free agency, but some of the losses(Minny playoff, Niner playoff, Dallas MNF up by 3 with 40 seconds, Philly Westbrook punt return) were inconcieveable. Fassel gets his due from me no doubt, but we have to ask ourselves, why has he interviewed for over 10 jobs and not gotten one of them?

 

All due respect Booyah, but with 2 Super Bowl titles, 5 NFL titles and a history that rivals any in the NFL Jim Fassel guaranteeing the playoffs with a 7-4 record and a game vs the horrendous Cardinals upcoming does not rank up there as one of our greatest moments. 41-0 does, but it was pretty much set that in a pathetic NFC year in 2000 the Giants were making the playoffs, even after getting detroyed at home by the Rams that year.

 

They had just gotten beaten by an awful Lions game at home. It didn't matter the opposition, they were playing liek shit. It was a gutsy call and it was one of the most memorable things to happen us.

[fishgutmartyr]

that makes one of us. when coughlin has 11 starters on the IR he'll lose this team WAY faster tahn fassel did. coughlin was brought here to install discipline, where is it? all we did was break our taem record for penalties BOTH seasons he was our coach. the team doesnt like him and will put up with him until we start losing. give fassel a relatively healthy team (until the end of last season), burress, mckenzie, pierce, feely, eli, jacobs, and snee and i dont see him not winning the division last season, especially since he won the division with WAY less talent before. the only thing coughlin has done is clean up our special teams play. that's all i'll give him credit for.

 

i've said many times fassel has to be fired that season. he lost the team and we needed a change. i only defend fassel when people say he was a bad coach, because for themost part he was fairly successful.

How many were on IR in 2004? That year was pretty insane with IR too, if I remember correctly.

[xxi-xxv]

You're right, like I said in an earlier thread, I've heard some shit through the grapevine that Fassel got badmouthed by the Giants when interviewing, in particular with the Bills job which he was supposed to have had in his hands till the Bills called the Giants to speak to them about him, suddenly it was gone. It is bizarre.

 

But now, think about this, the Giants wanted Coughlin out of BC, and they've had a hard on for Coughlin for years. coughlin was fired by the Jags and if he was so good, why didn't he get snapped up by someone. Yet here are the Giants, just after firing fassel, and they hire Coughlin right away, they didn't even consider anyone else, only maybe Lovie Smith, but they snapped Coughlin up right away. he wasn't even in the running for any other job. My point being, did they sign him because he was a good coach or because he was an old Parcells disciple.

 

Coughlin was only out 1 year and most people feel(at least thats what Francessa says) that he would have gotten a job elsewhere.

 

I like Fassel myself, but I keep his career in perspective, its probably one of those "don't know what ya got till its gone" situtations.

 

Coughlin has always been a well respected coach in the leaugue, in 1996 as a 2nd year expansion team they beat the Broncos at the old mile high(after the Broncs were 14-2)in a playoff game and lost in NE to a Parcells coached team in a highly competive AFC champ game. He then made the playoffs each year and should have won the AFC in 1999 at 14-2. Ironicially in that time period the AFC was far superior to the NFC and Coughlin caught some bad luck. He will ultimately wear out his welcome here, but my hope is he walks away on his terms and Charlie Weis is our coach by the time we enter the new stadium in 09

[xxi-xxv]

They had just gotten beaten by an awful Lions game at home. It didn't matter the opposition, they were playing liek shit. It was a gutsy call and it was one of the most memorable things to happen us.

 

thats right they were 7-2 got beat by the Trent Green/Trung Candidate Rams at home and then Sehorn lost his pants vs the Lions the next week

[boohyah]

Coughlin was only out 1 year and most people feel(at least thats what Francessa says) that he would have gotten a job elsewhere.

 

I like Fassel myself, but I keep his career in perspective, its probably one of those "don't know what ya got till its gone" situtations.

 

Coughlin has always been a well respected coach in the leaugue, in 1996 as a 2nd year expansion team they beat the Broncos at the old mile high(after the Broncs were 14-2)in a playoff game and lost in NE to a Parcells coached team in a highly competive AFC champ game. He then made the playoffs each year and should have won the AFC in 1999 at 14-2. Ironicially in that time period the AFC was far superior to the NFC and Coughlin caught some bad luck. He will ultimately wear out his welcome here, but my hope is he walks away on his terms and Charlie Weis is our coach by the time we enter the new stadium in 09

 

Jacksonville had a wild card team at home (titans) and lost badly and Coughlin was outcoached by Jeff Fisher.

 

His last 3 season in Jacksonville were losing ones. His tenure as a GM was such that the Jags were in salary cap hell for years afterwards.

 

His record is spotty to say the least.

[Herc]

Tom Coughlin is 4-2. 3-0 in the division against the toughest schedule in the league to start the season.

 

I in no way discount what Fassel did, but in 1997 and more importantly 2000 the competition was nowhere near as fearce as what it is now. I agree some shoddy calls tonight, the 3rd and 1 up 12-0 was moronic not running the ball, but lets be honest we are probably the MOST IMPRESSIVE 4-2 in the league and IMO the best 4-2 we have been in years since the NFC east was the beast it was in the 80's.

 

how can we not win? as long as we're pressuring bledsoe or an inexperienced qb they're going to turn the ball over. we have WAY too much talent not to win the games we should win. to be honest the rest of our division has underachieved so far this season. i love being 3-0 but our division isn't living up to it's 'best division in football' status. when we play a top team like the colts or the seahawks pre-alexander injury we underachieve because we have little room for error. any good team would've seized momentum after that horrible 3rd and short bomb that was intercepted--luckily we were plaing the cowboys.

[Herc]

How many were on IR in 2004? That year was pretty insane with IR too, if I remember correctly.

 

and they mailed it in. this team will turn on coughlin faster than they did on fassel as soon as we have a team that's expected to compete get decimated by injuries. coughlin's lucky that was his first year of the contract and nothing was expected of us.

 

boohyah raises a good point though, EA cheaped out on special teams positions for a LONG time. matt allen, rodney williams, matt bryant, owen ponchman, trey junkin, am i missing anyone here? how long did it take to finally sign a good kicker who wasn't working in a pawn shop weeks earlier? how long did it take to get someone in here who could convert on 3rd and short? you know how much fassel could've benefited from having someone as automatic as jacobs on 3rd and short? or a tall playmaking receiver in burress? or a line that didn't include the likes of ian allen, chris bober or wayne lucier? or charles stackhouse at fb?

[fishgutmartyr]

and they mailed it in. this team will turn on coughlin faster than they did on fassel as soon as we have a team that's expected to compete get decimated by injuries. coughlin's lucky that was his first year of the contract and nothing was expected of us.

 

boohyah raises a good point though, EA cheaped out on special teams positions for a LONG time. matt allen, rodney williams, matt bryant, owen ponchman, trey junkin, am i missing anyone here? how long did it take to finally sign a good kicker who wasn't working in a pawn shop weeks earlier? how long did it take to get someone in here who could convert on 3rd and short? you know how much fassel could've benefited from having someone as automatic as jacobs on 3rd and short? or a tall playmaking receiver in burress? or a line that didn't include the likes of ian allen, chris bober or wayne lucier? or charles stackhouse at fb?

They lost Williams and Wilson in that safety spot, and were down to the 3rd string. The defensive line was a shambles, the QB was a rookie. The OLine was Pettigout, Whittle, O'Hara, a rookie Snee, and at RT Diehl. They were losing games, but some were close, which was surprising considering some of the defenses they played. They won the last game--that wouldn't have happened if they mailed it in.

 

I'll admit I like Coughlin better than Fassel, but I don't think he's great, either. But you have to admit, the past 3 years were a hell of a lot more fun than most of the previous 10+.