Shurmur expected to be fired at season's end, Getty expected to be on short leash.

[Sephiroth]

25 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Hal Hunter sucks, but those lineman are all not starters in this league, and that's on DG.

Those linemen all HAVE been starters in this league until Hal Hunter, with the exception of Halapio.  Hernandez is going backwards from last year as is the entire rest of the line. 

You might be right and it's possible the older guys are all washed up, but I'm willing to give DG the benefit of the doubt for another year or two. It seems weird that three guys who were solid-to-good NFL starters just all spontaneously suck. 

 I'm not willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the coaching staff. 

[Tempest]

Just now, mastershake said:

If they're not ready to start, then they shouldn't be starting. Solder, Hernandez, Halapio, and Remmers should not be starters. They are all currently awful. That's on DG for penciling them in as starters, rather than filling in the roster with lineman actually capable of starting.

They are awful based on what?  Be specific.  Who are the players on this roster or available in free agency who could do better?  

[mastershake]

1 minute ago, Sephiroth said:

Those linemen all HAVE been starters in this league until Hal Hunter, with the exception of Halapio.  Hernandez is going backwards from last year as is the entire rest of the line. 

You might be right and it's possible the older guys are all washed up, but I'm willing to give DG the benefit of the doubt for another year or two. It seems weird that three guys who were solid-to-good NFL starters just all spontaneously suck. 

 I'm not willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the coaching staff. 

Remmers, Halapio and Solder do not have a future on this team, regardless of Hal Hunter's performance (and that's on DG). The jury is out on Hernandez, but he's done nothing so far to indicate he's a starter in this league. Penciling him in when he's not ready is on DG.

[BlueInCanada]

2 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

Those linemen all HAVE been starters in this league until Hal Hunter, with the exception of Halapio.  Hernandez is going backwards from last year as is the entire rest of the line. 

You might be right and it's possible the older guys are all washed up, but I'm willing to give DG the benefit of the doubt for another year or two. It seems weird that three guys who were solid-to-good NFL starters just all spontaneously suck. 

 I'm not willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the coaching staff. 

 

Zeitler has been the best by far on the line this year.

He really hasn't had a bad game.

Problem is now he's hurt.

And yeah Hernandez has just taken a massive step backwards from last year.

Which as you said is probably 90% coaching.

[BlueInCanada]

4 minutes ago, Tempest said:

They are awful based on what?  Be specific.  Who are the players on this roster or available in free agency who could do better?  

I mean Solder has given up the most sacks on the team and Halapio is regarded as the worst player on the Oline behind Solder.

That's the problem though with DG taking the team over for JR and the coaching.

They have not found or developed anything better be it a lack of coaching, cash to spend on free agency or just overall lack of talent by the players.

[mastershake]

1 minute ago, Tempest said:

They are awful based on what?  Be specific.  Who are the players on this roster or available in free agency who could do better?  

Based on their performance on the field, the team stats (which are somehow DOWN vs last year), and PFF ratings, which rank these four guys as backups at best.

In terms of finding players via the draft, free agency, trade...that's up to DG to figure out. I'm not going to go evaluate every player available the past two years. What we know is what we have... DG hasn't been able to put together an OL in two years. We know he hasn't drafted a successful lineman, and the only good move is Zeitler. 

How many years does he need exactly?

[mastershake]

4 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

 

Zeitler has been the best by far on the line this year.

He really hasn't had a bad game.

Problem is now he's hurt.

And yeah Hernandez has just taken a massive step backwards from last year.

Which as you said is probably 90% coaching.

Remmers, Halapio are gone next season, and if they're LUCKY...they will be backups elsewhere. The only reason Solder will stick around is because of $$$...if not for that, he'd be cut and would be out of the league. The only reason Hernandez is starting on our team right now is because he was a 2nd round pick. If he were a 7th or UDFA, he'd be a backup.

 

Watch where Solder, Halapio, and Remmers end up...they're out of the league within 1-2 years.

[BlueInCanada]

1 minute ago, mastershake said:

Based on their performance on the field, the team stats (which are somehow DOWN vs last year), and PFF ratings, which rank these four guys as backups at best.

In terms of finding players via the draft, free agency, trade...that's up to DG to figure out. I'm not going to go evaluate every player available the past two years. What we know is what we have... DG hasn't been able to put together an OL in two years. We know he hasn't drafted a successful lineman, and the only good move is Zeitler. 

How many years does he need exactly?

I think it usually three to four years for a team to develop and a team to come together both in free agency and the draft.

People want to point at the 49ers or Rams but forget that those teams went through multiple losing records with their GMs before they got the pieces they needed.

 

[mastershake]

Just now, BlueInCanada said:

I think it usually three to four years for a team to develop and a team to come together both in free agency and the draft.

People want to point at the 49ers or Rams but forget that those teams went through multiple losing records with their GMs before they got the pieces they needed.

 

Is the current OL that we have better than it was 3-4 years ago?????

[BlueInCanada]

1 minute ago, mastershake said:

Remmers, Halapio are gone next season, and if they're LUCKY...they will be backups elsewhere. The only reason Solder will stick around is because of $$$...if not for that, he'd be cut and would be out of the league. The only reason Hernandez is starting on our team right now is because he was a 2nd round pick. If he were a 7th or UDFA, he'd be a backup.

 

Watch where Solder, Halapio, and Remmers end up...they're out of the league within 1-2 years.

You can't really say that about Hernandez at the moment he's had one great year and one down year.

When his rookie contract is up you can determine what type of player he's going to be.

Flowers was one of the worst tackles in the NFL now he's one of the best guards in the NFL.

Just takes time for some players.

[BlueInCanada]

Just now, mastershake said:

Is the current OL that we have better than it was 3-4 years ago?????

We didn't have the same coach or GM from three or four years ago.

Infact the Oline doesn't even have any players from that time lol 

[mastershake]

Just now, BlueInCanada said:

You can't really say that about Hernandez at the moment he's had one great year and one down year.

When his rookie contract is up you can determine what type of player he's going to be.

Flowers was one of the worst tackles in the NFL now he's one of the best guards in the NFL.

Just takes time for some players.

He's had one great year based on what? What had he done to indicate he's a starter in this league? He's rated 60 on PFF, LOL..

[mastershake]

2 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

We didn't have the same coach or GM from three or four years ago.

Infact the Oline doesn't even have any players from that time lol 

Right...DG brought in a new OL the past two years....which have been awful.

[BlueInCanada]

Actually the only person from that time to really do well is Richburg he's turned into a good center for the 49ers.

However he's on IR now guy is made of glass like Pugh.

[BlueInCanada]

Just now, mastershake said:

He's had one great year based on what? What had he done to indicate he's a starter in this league? He's rated 60 on PFF, LOL..

 

I didn't know PFF was the Bible of the NFL guess you really don't even need GMs anymore just build a team based on PFF ratings heh 

I mean he had a great rookie year i don't know how you could deny that.

[mastershake]

1 minute ago, BlueInCanada said:

Actually the only person from that time to really do well is Richburg he's turned into a good center for the 49ers.

However he's on IR now guy is made of glass like Pugh.

I'm not defending Reese. I'm asking what DG has done to improve the line the past two years. 4/5ths of our offensive line are guys who have no business starting in this league.

Hernandez is ranked 59.0 according to PFF.

The Player Grading Scale:

100-90 Elite

89-85 Pro Bowler

84-70 Starter

69-60 Backup

59-0 Replaceable

[BlueInCanada]

1 minute ago, mastershake said:

Right...DG brought in a new OL the past two years....which have been awful.

Right he had to toss an entire positions group out and start new.

I can't think of a single time in the NFL a GM brought in 5 new players and they played at a pro bowl level from day one or even year two.

Not to mention every other positions group he has to rebuild on this team due to JRs neglect.

[mastershake]

1 minute ago, BlueInCanada said:

I didn't know PFF was the Bible of the NFL guess you really don't even need GMs anymore just build a team based on PFF ratings heh 

I mean he had a great rookie year i don't know how you could deny that.

The player grades in PFF pretty much correlate to the player's actual performance. 

Hernandez had a great rookie year based on what??? Did he earn any rookie accolades? PFF had him in the dumpster last year as well, rated as a backup.

[mastershake]

3 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Right he had to toss an entire positions group out and start new.

I can't think of a single time in the NFL a GM brought in 5 new players and they played at a pro bowl level from day one or even year two.

Not to mention every other positions group he has to rebuild on this team due to JRs neglect.

Would you call DG's moves on the OL a success??? lol... 4/5ths of the line should not be starting in this league.

"But he's only had two years" is a pathetic excuse.

[BlueInCanada]

Just now, mastershake said:

The player grades in PFF pretty much correlate to the player's actual performance. 

Hernandez had a great rookie year based on what??? Did he earn any rookie accolades? PFF had him in the dumpster last year as well, rated as a backup.

Ah so your just looking at PFF ratings.

 

[mastershake]

1 minute ago, BlueInCanada said:

Ah so your just looking at PFF ratings.

 

I'm also looking at him getting turned around and having his constantly man around the ball half the time every Sunday, as are the PFF elevators who rank him as poor.

What are you watching?

[BlueInCanada]

Just now, mastershake said:

Would you call DG's moves on the OL a success??? lol... 4/5ths of the line should not be starting in this league.

"But he's only had two years" is a pathetic excuse.

I don't understand you seem to think I'm defending him.

I wouldn't call anything on this team a success.

But you show me a GM who's replaced and turned over 90% of the roster from a previous regime and by year two is in the playoffs? 

Once again people seem to think one year turn arounds are real when in reality they are fantasy.

 

[mastershake]

Just now, BlueInCanada said:

I don't understand you seem to think I'm defending him.

I wouldn't call anything on this team a success.

But you show me a GM who's replaced and turned over 90% of the roster from a previous regime and by year two is in the playoffs? 

Once again people seem to think one year turn arounds are real when in reality they are fantasy.

 

You are setting up straw men here. The point is we should see progress in two years, over what was an atrocious OL previously, and a pretty low bar previously set...Yet, the OL now is as bad as it was 2-3 years ago, and 4/5ths of the current line should not be starting in this league.

[BlueInCanada]

Just now, mastershake said:

I'm also looking at him getting turned around and having his constantly man around the ball half the time every Sunday, as are the PFF elevators who rank him as poor.

What are you watching?

In not taking about this year I even said he was having a bad year.

But for some reason you're getting all defensive over it lol

PFF doesn't have evaluators it's run by a couple guys who put stats into a computer algorithm and spot out a number lol

Hernandez last year was the only bright spot on the Oline of you've forgotten about it then fine but I don't see how you can say he wasn't impressive his rookie year

[CrazedDogs]

14 hours ago, Storm said:

The team is like last in the league in cap devoted to the defense, is on pace for a record setting number of snaps by rookies, and has by far the most dead cap space in the league. But yes, it’s Shurmur and not the roster that’s bad. There isn’t a single coach that could get more than 2-3 wins out of this team.

 

The roster is awful, and Shurmur is also, quite obviously, really bad. I get the issue with letting him go, stability and all that, but how many mistakes do we need to see him make to know that he isn't the guy? Over and over again, errors that are entirely unrelated to whether or not rookies are on the field. For all his built in excuses, there's no excuse for his actual performance, and no reason to think he'll suddenly be smarter or more prepared just because next year's roster may be a little more experienced. A poor roster doesn't explain the continual tactical failures that have nothing to do with a player carrying out a play as its drawn up. Coughlin got forced into retirement for those kinds of mistakes, and he brought two rings to the table. 

of course the roster is so bad I could see a perfectly competent coach going 2-14..... its not about the record. Its about the mistakes and the regression of all the young talent on the roster.