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BlueInCanada

Shurmur expected to be fired at season's end, Getty expected to be on short leash.

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Damning words from Saquon Barkley: “We’re a team that finds a way to lose a lot of games. That’s what we are as of right now, yes. That’s our team. We’re just an inconsistent football team. We find ways to lose games.

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I still don’t see it happening. Tried it with Mcadoo.

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35 minutes ago, Storm said:

I still don’t see it happening. Tried it with Mcadoo.

They hired the wrong people after McAdoo...the act of firing someone after two seasons isn't necessarily wrong if you don't expect any improvements by keeping them.

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I wanted to give Shurmur another season but at literally every juncture the team hasn't made the step needed to improve. He's gotta go.

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7 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

I wanted to give Shurmur another season but at literally every juncture the team hasn't made the step needed to improve. He's gotta go.

 

The only reason he MIGHT get another year, is how Jones has played, and Getty/Mara telling him to keep just tanking the team for a higher pick.

I mean as much as I was on the "one more year" boat, after lasts night just absolute ineptitude in terms of playcalling and adjustments, I can't bring myself to say Shurmur is best for this team next year.

Bettcher as well can join him being shown the door.

Keep Shula on as QB/assistant OC so Jones has a familiar face with the new coaching staff and even the possibility of a new GM.

The only thing about firing Shurmur is that's two coaches in four years, a lot of young or promising HCs arent going to want to go to a team where if they fail for a season or two they are shown the door.

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5 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

 

The only reason he MIGHT get another year, is how Jones has played, and Getty/Mara telling him to keep just tanking the team for a higher pick.

I mean as much as I was on the "one more year" boat, after lasts night just absolute ineptitude in terms of playcalling and adjustments, I can't bring myself to say Shurmur is best for this team next year.

Bettcher as well can join him being shown the door.

Keep Shula on as QB/assistant OC so Jones has a familiar face with the new coaching staff and even the possibility of a new GM.

The only thing about firing Shurmur is that's two coaches in four years, a lot of young or promising HCs arent going to want to go to a team where if they fail for a season or two they are shown the door.

And it’s not going to be an attractive job if a new coach is again saddled with a QB they didn’t bring in and a roster actively being built for a 3-4. Firing Shurmur is horribly short sighted.

The team is like last in the league in cap devoted to the defense, is on pace for a record setting number of snaps by rookies, and has by far the most dead cap space in the league. But yes, it’s Shurmur and not the roster that’s bad. There isn’t a single coach that could get more than 2-3 wins out of this team.

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14 minutes ago, Storm said:

And it’s not going to be an attractive job if a new coach is again saddled with a QB they didn’t bring in and a roster actively being built for a 3-4. Firing Shurmur is horribly short sighted.

The team is like last in the league in cap devoted to the defense, is on pace for a record setting number of snaps by rookies, and has by far the most dead cap space in the league. But yes, it’s Shurmur and not the roster that’s bad. There isn’t a single coach that could get more than 2-3 wins out of this team.

It's both Shurmur and the roster.

I never said it was one or the other.

I don't think a coach would be "saddled" with Jones or this roster honestly, now is the perfect time to bring in a new HC since we have the cap space and draft capitol to bring in players to fit any new scheme.

Now if we were starting Eli next year and didn't have Barkley or the rookies we have, I would agree it wouldn't be a good time for a new HC.

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Quote

New York Giants head coach Pat Shurmur is expected to be fired at the conclusion of the 2019 season, and general manager Dave Gettleman is "in trouble," according to ESPN's Jordan Raanan.

With Monday night's overtime loss to the Philadelphia Eagles, the Giants fell to 2-11 and were guaranteed to finish 5-11 or worse for the third consecutive campaign.

In two seasons as New York's head coach, Shurmur owns a 7-22 record, and the Giants rank just 26th in total offense and 25th in scoring this season despite Shurmur's offensive background.

New York hired Gettleman in December 2017 following the firing of Jerry Reese, and one of his first orders of business was to hire Shurmur despite the fact that Shurmur was just 9-23 during his first stint as a head coach with the Cleveland Browns in 2011-12.

 

Gettleman also made some curious personnel decisions, including allowing safety Landon Collins to join the Washington Redskins in free agency, trading wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. to the Browns and selecting quarterback Daniel Jones with the No. 6 overall pick in the 2019 draft.

The jury is still out on all those moves, especially Jones, as he is just 10 starts into his NFL career. Veteran Eli Manning began 2019 as the Giants' starting quarterback, but after two losses, Shurmur turned to Jones.

The results have been mixed, as Jones is just 2-8 but owns solid numbers with 2,374 passing yards, 18 touchdowns and 11 interceptions to go along with 241 rushing yards and two scores.

With Jones, running back Saquon Barkley and tight end Evan Engram, the pieces may be in place for sustained success on the offensive side of the ball, but the Giants have an old defense in need of an overhaul, as it ranks 27th in yards allowed and 28th in points allowed.

Though it can be argued that two years isn't long enough for a head coach and general manager to retool a team, it seems the Giants aren't anywhere close to playoff contention.

Landing a defensive game-changer such as Ohio State pass-rusher Chase Young early in the 2020 draft could help turn things around more quickly than expected, but new voices on the sideline and in the front office may be needed to weed out the losing culture that has taken over in recent years.

Giants Rumors: Pat Shurmur Expected to Be Fired, GM Dave Gettleman 'In Trouble'

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10 hours ago, Storm said:

And it’s not going to be an attractive job if a new coach is again saddled with a QB they didn’t bring in and a roster actively being built for a 3-4. Firing Shurmur is horribly short sighted.

The team is like last in the league in cap devoted to the defense, is on pace for a record setting number of snaps by rookies, and has by far the most dead cap space in the league. But yes, it’s Shurmur and not the roster that’s bad. There isn’t a single coach that could get more than 2-3 wins out of this team.

 

Well said, Storm.   I'm no defender of Shurmer but he's working with a shit sandwich in terms of roster... we have a lot of rookies going through the growing pains... I'm not too thrilled about our defense though.. as much as I was hopeful our DC would produce, I've been quite disappointed...

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1 hour ago, Prince_Nas said:

 

Well said, Storm.   I'm no defender of Shurmer but he's working with a shit sandwich in terms of roster... we have a lot of rookies going through the growing pains... I'm not too thrilled about our defense though.. as much as I was hopeful our DC would produce, I've been quite disappointed...

Absolutely agreed. I think Bettcher is largely the problem. But he’s got Golden to pass rush and that’s about it. Hard to cover for over 5 seconds every play. 

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I don’t care what Ranaan says, I still highly doubt Shurmur or Gettleman are fired. 

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12 hours ago, Storm said:

And it’s not going to be an attractive job if a new coach is again saddled with a QB they didn’t bring in and a roster actively being built for a 3-4. Firing Shurmur is horribly short sighted.

The team is like last in the league in cap devoted to the defense, is on pace for a record setting number of snaps by rookies, and has by far the most dead cap space in the league. But yes, it’s Shurmur and not the roster that’s bad. There isn’t a single coach that could get more than 2-3 wins out of this team.

Why delay firing Schurmer? Schurmer's not going to be successful coach here...he's not the future. If he stays next year, he's gone after that inevitably bad season anyway....what's the point? Might as well start with a new coach and GM ASAP. Delaying only puts off the inevitable and continues this rut longer.

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Shurmur I can see as possibly getting fired for everything that has gone wrong but Gettleman is staying.  Shurmur could wind up staying if he just fires Bettcher and a few positional coaches.  I don't blame Dave Gettleman for the problems we've seen out there on the field.

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30 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Shurmur I can see as possibly getting fired for everything that has gone wrong but Gettleman is staying.  Shurmur could wind up staying if he just fires Bettcher and a few positional coaches.  I don't blame Dave Gettleman for the problems we've seen out there on the field.

Gettlemen's responsible for far too many dumb moves that have set this team back, namely for the poor OL, the entirety of the hollow defense (minus the DL), the dumb Leonard Williams trade. etc. He's also not the future.

The entire OL minus Zeitler consists of backups at best

Solder: Bust

Hernandez: Bust

Hilapio: Bust

Remmers: Not a starter. Average backup at best. Bust.

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33 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Why delay firing Schurmer? Schurmer's not going to be successful coach here...he's not the future. If he stays next year, he's gone after that inevitably bad season anyway....what's the point? Might as well start with a new coach and GM ASAP. Delaying only puts off the inevitable and continues this rut longer.

Because he played a majority of a season with a rookie quarterback who looks good, three offensive weapons never on the field at the same time, and a defense made up of nearly all rookies or second year players, lol. You have yet to see what he could possibly due with an NFL caliber roster filled with highly drafted rookies who need time to develop.

And if you change coaches and GM you’re looking at completely restarting the process.

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18 minutes ago, Storm said:

Because he played a majority of a season with a rookie quarterback who looks good, three offensive weapons never on the field at the same time, and a defense made up of nearly all rookies or second year players, lol. You have yet to see what he could possibly due with an NFL caliber roster filled with highly drafted rookies who need time to develop.

And if you change coaches and GM you’re looking at completely restarting the process.

Tate, Shepherd, Slayton, and Barkley were all on the field last week, and are more than most teams have in terms of skill position players...and the most Schurmer could muster in the 2nd half was one first down against a struggling defense. 

Lots of teams are playing with rookies and/or 2nd year players, and many of those teams are outperforming us. Pittsburgh, the Jets, Indy, Denver, etc for instance.

In general, Schurmer is not the guy who gets the most out of his teams. Schurmer under-performs and makes many critical mistakes that costs wins. He's a bad decision maker, poor planner, and poor at making adjustments. That doesn't change with a better roster, and it costs us wins even with a better roster.

He's gone after next year anyway if he stays for 2020, so what's the point? He's not going to be a winning coach here. Why delay the inevitable? That's a setback. Changing coaches now starts the inevitable change and gets us on track sooner.

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For those of you who think Schurmer should stay, ask yourself the same question Kim Jones asked Schurmer, which Schurmer wasn't able to answer:

"Can you name one area where this team has progressed from the beginning of the season through now (week 14)?"

And don't say Daniel Jones...he's making the same mistakes now as he did back when he first started.

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2 hours ago, Prince_Nas said:

 

Well said, Storm.   I'm no defender of Shurmer but he's working with a shit sandwich in terms of roster... we have a lot of rookies going through the growing pains... I'm not too thrilled about our defense though.. as much as I was hopeful our DC would produce, I've been quite disappointed...

I really WANT to agree... but honestly, this team isn't taking the steps necessary to succeed.  This year, we had an easier schedule and a much less competitive division... but we're going to end up with a worse record.  Since playing the Patriots very well:

We ended up losing to the Cardinals, who have arguably a worse roster and another rookie QB.  Poor clock  management in this game as well.

We lost to the Lions, another sad-sack team with another poor showing on clock management. 

We lost to the Jets, where players were clearly giving up on plays and their QB is a hot mess right now. 

We've had players come right out and say they still don't know the defensive playbook.

We still inexplicably have Saquon Barkley run behind center or off-guard 10 times per game (not an exaggeration) for negative or no gain. 

We are consistently out-scored in the second half of games, noting that the coach is failing to make adjustments. 

We've had once-promising looking players (Saquon, Hill, Hernandez) take steps backwards. 

 

43 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Gettlemen's responsible for far too many dumb moves that have set this team back, namely for the poor OL, the entirety of the hollow defense (minus the DL), the dumb Leonard Williams trade. etc. He's also not the future.

The entire OL minus Zeitler consists of backups at best

Solder: Bust

Hernandez: Bust

Hilapio: Bust

Remmers: Not a starter. Average backup at best. Bust.

I'd like to remind you that Hal Hunter is the OL coach, who was so good he was out of the league two years ago, and coached a line that gave up an NFL-high 66 sacks in the prior year.  He has never had success anywhere he's been and is a consistent NFL retread... a warm body with a name.  Kevin Zeitler and Nate Solder are both playing worse than their careers indicate they should.  At the end of the day, the coaching hires are on the HC, and from Hunter to Bettcher they've been bad hires (except on special teams). 

I don't want to have to hire another coach this offseason but honestly, this can't go on. Three coaches in five years is a really bad look. 

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2 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

I really WANT to agree... but honestly, this team isn't taking the steps necessary to succeed.  This year, we had an easier schedule and a much less competitive division... but we're going to end up with a worse record.  Since playing the Patriots very well:

We ended up losing to the Cardinals, who have arguably a worse roster and another rookie QB.  Poor clock  management in this game as well.

We lost to the Lions, another sad-sack team with another poor showing on clock management. 

We lost to the Jets, where players were clearly giving up on plays and their QB is a hot mess right now. 

We've had players come right out and say they still don't know the defensive playbook.

We still inexplicably have Saquon Barkley run behind center or off-guard 10 times per game (not an exaggeration) for negative or no gain. 

We are consistently out-scored in the second half of games, noting that the coach is failing to make adjustments. 

We've had once-promising looking players (Saquon, Hill, Hernandez) take steps backwards. 

 

I'd like to remind you that Hal Hunter is the OL coach, who was so good he was out of the league two years ago, and coached a line that gave up an NFL-high 66 sacks in the prior year.  He has never had success anywhere he's been and is a consistent NFL retread... a warm body with a name.  Kevin Zeitler and Nate Solder are both playing worse than their careers indicate they should.  At the end of the day, the coaching hires are on the HC, and from Hunter to Bettcher they've been bad hires (except on special teams). 

I don't want to have to hire another coach this offseason but honestly, this can't go on. Three coaches in five years is a really bad look. 

Hal Hunter sucks, but those lineman are all not starters in this league, and that's on DG.

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1 hour ago, mastershake said:

Gettlemen's responsible for far too many dumb moves that have set this team back, namely for the poor OL, the entirety of the hollow defense (minus the DL), the dumb Leonard Williams trade. etc. He's also not the future.

The entire OL minus Zeitler consists of backups at best

Solder: Bust

Hernandez: Bust

Hilapio: Bust

Remmers: Not a starter. Average backup at best. Bust.

It is way too early to look at any draftees who are starting as busts.  Halapio was a street free agent who put in some good work before getting hurt and managed to keep his job until this season exposed his limitations.  Remmers is definitely better than Wheeler or anyone else we have plugged in at RT since Justin Pugh and unfortunately we have to continue to look for someone to fill that role.

Between the lack of quality free agents and moves made by Gettleman to move high priced players who were under-performing, the offensive line remains an unfinished product.  Solder isn't a bust he was overpaid because the Giants haven't found the answer to the position.

Offensive line hasn't been the greatest but it has been better this year and will continue to get better.

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3 minutes ago, Tempest said:

It is way too early to look at any draftees who are starting as busts.  Halapio was a street free agent who put in some good work before getting hurt and managed to keep his job until this season exposed his limitations.  Remmers is definitely better than Wheeler or anyone else we have plugged in at RT since Justin Pugh and unfortunately we have to continue to look for someone to fill that role.

Between the lack of quality free agents and moves made by Gettleman to move high priced players who were under-performing, the offensive line remains an unfinished product.  Solder isn't a bust he was overpaid because the Giants haven't found the answer to the position.

Offensive line hasn't been the greatest but it has been better this year and will continue to get better.

If they're not ready to start, then they shouldn't be starting. Solder, Hernandez, Halapio, and Remmers should not be starters. They are all currently awful. That's on DG for penciling them in as starters, rather than filling in the roster with lineman actually capable of starting. If you want to argue the jury is still out on Hernandez...fine, but he's been horrible so far and shouldn't be starting.

DG has had two years and he's failed to put together a competent line. The line is actually worse now than it was last year.

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56 minutes ago, Storm said:

Because he played a majority of a season with a rookie quarterback who looks good, three offensive weapons never on the field at the same time, and a defense made up of nearly all rookies or second year players, lol. You have yet to see what he could possibly due with an NFL caliber roster filled with highly drafted rookies who need time to develop.

And if you change coaches and GM you’re looking at completely restarting the process.

Remember how we always complained about Tom Coughlin burying the rookie classes in the depth chart and slowly bringing them into the starting rotation?  After this season, I see the reason why.  So many inexperienced starters on defense mixed in with under-performing veterans has killed the season for the Giants.

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