Giants Offensive Line and the draft

[BleedinBlue]

I am convinced that the Giants are targeting an Offensive Lineman in tonight's draft. I could drop a 200 word essay on here to explain, but I'll omit that.

 

The ONLY things that could possibly throw a stick in the works is if one of the two top WRs or Leonard Williams or Dante Fowler fall...which I don't think will happen and still think the Giants would go with an offensive lineman.

 

With that said, here's my two cents:

 

Pure tackles: Erick Flowers, Andrus Peat, T.J. Clemmings, and D.J Humphries

 

Pure guards: A.J. Cann, Laken Tomlinson, Ali Marpet, Tre' Jackson

 

Tackles better suited for guard, but could develop into NFL tackle: Brandon Scherff and La'el Collins

 

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The real difference in tackle vs. guard play is that tackles generally are taller, longer, and have the foot work necessary to be able to move quickly (side to side) to protect the QB; whereas, a guard is generally shorter, stockier, and more of a bulldozer kind of guy.

 

This morning's Star Tribune suggests that the Giants are enamored with Erick Flowers as well as three or four other teams. Flowers is huge, strong, and has a mean streak. It is said that his footwork needs work and NFL coaching because he got away with less than great footwork in college by being stronger, meaner, and nastier than the DE's and LB's he was up against. That won't work in the NFL. However, most analysts figure Flowers will get the footwork and be a perennial Pro-Bowler someday.

 

Andrus Peat on the other hand, has fantastic footwork for protecting the QB, but isn't the nasty, mean OT that Erick Flowers is. His lower body strength surpasses everyone's in the draft, but his upper body strength has yet to catch up.

 

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In my opinion, the Giants will take one of the following: Scherff, Peat, or Flowers

 

I'm going on a hunch here, but I think the Giants are sold on Peat. And here's why.

Peat can step in at RT and that side of the line is solid for the whole year. Pugh would be moved inside to guard. Peat would eventually move to LT (sooner in the case of injury) to replace Beatty in the next couple of years.

 

But the big thing in Peat's favor was something I heard among the analysts yakking it up on NFL Network. And that is the importance of the interviews. They were talking off the cuff about how important an interview is. They said, football players have to realize when they are talking to coaches, that it is no different than any job interview that we all go through. The people interviewing you already know all about your physical skills and what you bring to the table. What they are really looking for is "what kind of person are you"....hence, character, intelligence, how one carries themselves when not at work, politeness, ability to learn, what motivates you, etc.

 

According to these guys, Peat killed it and every team that talked to him came away stunned that he is by far, the most high character, highly motivated, good and decent man they've met in this college draft class. Things they said were, "extremely mature, very smart, football IQ 'off the charts', most coachable, very likeable, team player", etc.

 

The way the Giants use character as a measuring stick, I think it bumps Peat over Flowers. This, of course, is just my opinion, but I think it's a valid one. Both guys are young and early entries into the draft so they have a 12 year future.

 

I also think Scherff is in the same league character-wise, but he is not a legitimate NFL tackle who can replace Beatty in the next year or two and will have growing pains if they try him at RT.

 

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With that said, I can't wait for tonight's draft. Giants should be on the clock around 10:00 PM EST (assuming the first 8 teams use their clock time).

 

I expect the Giants to pick one of the three offensive linemen I mentioned above: Scherff, Flowers, or Peat and every instinct in my body tells me that people will be surprised when they hear "Peat".

 

Regardless...I will be happy with anyone of those 3 guys and trust the Giants know a helluva lot more than I do about these kids.

 

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Last thought: I would love it if the Giants took Peat or Flowers in the first, and took Laken Tomlinson or Ali Marpet later (Tomlinson would probably have to be taken in the 2nd, so I personally would prefer Marpet who could be picked up in the 3rd or 4th). And here's my reasoning: We have Pugh and Richburg - 2 young guys who will be together for a decade. We have brought in Jones who is also young. Now, if we bring in a stud tackle and a stud guard...the 4 or 5 young guys can work together as a team and become one of the best O-lines in Giants history. All near the same age, learning together until they work in synch like a well oiled machine. With the o-line finally fixed - our QB should be able to shine.

[Tempest]

The real question is what are the Giants trying to do on the offensive line.

 

Are they looking to groom Will Beatty's replacement? nope the Giants don't think that far ahead.

A replacement for Pugh at RT? I have a hard time believing they are considering it since he only entering his third season.

LG or RG? Schwartz didn't play much and who knows if he can be as dominant at LG.

 

Giants need a player that is NFL ready at the start of the season, not someone who needs to get significantly coached up to be effective. They are going to take the player who is ready now over the guy who could be great later.

[Sephiroth]

Jerry Reese needs to come out of this draft with at least 3 starters, or he should lose his job.

 

I'd go Schreff over Peat because as Temp said, he's more NFL-ready.

[gmenroc]

Bleedin - I brought up the potential of Scherff/Flowers/OT of choice in the first with a G in the second earlier this week in some thread and after writing it, I liked it more and more...especially given the Ellis and Selvie signings for the DLine in free agency. I think too, that there are real benefits to having a young line gel together.

 

OT-WR-G would work okay for my liking...but it really tends to screw Spags out of a young player he can use. Because of that, I think OT-DE/LB-OG may be the way they end up going. Waiting until the 3rd to get Marpet may be a mistake though. I think he's the 3rd best G in this draft (ignoring the OTs that are slated as OGs) behind Cann and Tomlinson. I think Cann is borderline end of first round and Tomlinson is early second. At the latest, I think Cann and Tomlinson go in the top 15 of the second round. That leaves some 30-35 picks without anyone taking Marpet. I think that may not work.

 

OGs in the 3rd...I think we'd be looking at the Tre Jacksons, Arie Kouandjios, and John Millers of the draft. If you're comfortable with any of those, then go OT-DE/LB-OG. If not however, you might want to consider OT-OG-DE/LB

 

OT: Scherff/Flowers/Peat

OG: Cann/Tomlinson

DE/LB: P. Dawson, H. Kikaha, D. Perryman, N. Orchard, Z. Smith

[Mr. P]

If they go o-line, I hope the guy they pick, they believe he can be the future left tackle.

[CrazedDogs]

As good as Pugh was his rookie season, he was just as bad his sophomore season. I am not comfortable assuming that RT is locked down. Lets get some more good offensive linemen and let the positions shake out where they may.

[BleedinBlue]

Bleedin - I brought up the potential of Scherff/Flowers/OT of choice in the first with a G in the second earlier this week in some thread and after writing it, I liked it more and more...especially given the Ellis and Selvie signings for the DLine in free agency. I think too, that there are real benefits to having a young line gel together.

 

OT-WR-G would work okay for my liking...but it really tends to screw Spags out of a young player he can use. Because of that, I think OT-DE/LB-OG may be the way they end up going. Waiting until the 3rd to get Marpet may be a mistake though. I think he's the 3rd best G in this draft (ignoring the OTs that are slated as OGs) behind Cann and Tomlinson. I think Cann is borderline end of first round and Tomlinson is early second. At the latest, I think Cann and Tomlinson go in the top 15 of the second round. That leaves some 30-35 picks without anyone taking Marpet. I think that may not work.

 

OGs in the 3rd...I think we'd be looking at the Tre Jacksons, Arie Kouandjios, and John Millers of the draft. If you're comfortable with any of those, then go OT-DE/LB-OG. If not however, you might want to consider OT-OG-DE/LB

 

OT: Scherff/Flowers/Peat

OG: Cann/Tomlinson

DE/LB: P. Dawson, H. Kikaha, D. Perryman, N. Orchard, Z. Smith

I really can't see the Giants passing on one of those 3 in the first round. The draft is really deep with WRs and RBs - but very limited in stud o-linemen. In fact, after those 3 there is a sharp dropoff. And guards are far easier to find and develop in later rounds than legit tackles. Unfortunately, it is also light on legit DE's and Safeties as well...but there are some alternatives. I don't believe Landon Collins is a stud safety. He might be the best of a sad class, but he's not top 10 worthy. And I'm not convinced that Bud Dupree is any better than Anthony Chickilo, but Dupree will cost you a 1st and Chickilo will cost you a 3rd or 4th. And if Odighizuwa is still available when we pick in the 2nd, we MUST grab him. I'd also think Preston Smith would be a steal in the second.

 

I hope they take one of the 3 big studs in the first - a legit 4-3 DE in the 2nd (if Odighizuwa or Smith is still on the board) and go back in the 3rd for a stud guard like Marpet (if we took a tackle in the 1st) or some great player who fell through the cracks.

[Bigblue25]

I am not big on Peat. Even the guys who like him talk about his weaknesses of being knocked off the ball. Hearing stuff like he "may not take to hard coaching" really concerns me. Also hearing things like he is snobbish and may not want football bad enough. I also don't see him having the power to play RT and would not be an upgrade over Pugh. Too me he's an LT only and we are not going to sit the 9th overall pick for a year. I am really getting sick to my stomach thinking Peat is the pick

[Mr. P]

I am not big on Peat. Even the guys who like him talk about his weaknesses of being knocked off the ball. Hearing stuff like he "may not take to hard coaching" really concerns me. Also hearing things like he is snobbish and may not want football bad enough. I also don't see him having the power to play RT and would not be an upgrade over Pugh. Too me he's an LT only and we are not going to sit the 9th overall pick for a year. I am really getting sick to my stomach thinking Peat is the pick

 

I actually like Peat the most out of all the o-linemen, I do like Scherff a lot too so I'll be happy with either one. I like them both better than Flowers.

[BleedinBlue]

I am not big on Peat. Even the guys who like him talk about his weaknesses of being knocked off the ball. Hearing stuff like he "may not take to hard coaching" really concerns me. Also hearing things like he is snobbish and may not want football bad enough. I also don't see him having the power to play RT and would not be an upgrade over Pugh. Too me he's an LT only and we are not going to sit the 9th overall pick for a year. I am really getting sick to my stomach thinking Peat is the pick

I wouldn't believe everything you hear. Practically everything a team says about a player is a smokescreen to make the guy fall (preferably to themselves). Many people say he is as close to a sure thing as a tackle as any player in the draft. And that his character and football IQ are off the charts.

 

People who are 6'7 and have built their legs up bigger than trees take football seriously. And he's from an NFL family with a father who was a lineman in the NFL and knows what to expect. His niceness gets confused with being soft, but he's all business. And even his critics say that his footwork is the best of any tackle in the draft. Every analyst I've read marvels at Peat's footwork and for a guy who is that huge to be able to ball-room dance is freakish.

 

As far as playing RT goes - if he's been holding the LT position, he can certainly handle the RT position.

 

I have a lot of faith in Reese, TC, McAdoo, and Flaherty to have done their homework and will make a good decision. They will know about a thousand times more than the combined opinions of the fans when it comes to which player best suits the Giants for the future.

 

I like Peat a lot. But I will also be happy with Flowers or Scherff. I trust the FO will know best.

 

[Bigblue25]

I wouldn't believe everything you hear. Practically everything a team says about a player is a smokescreen to make the guy fall (preferably to themselves). Many people say he is as close to a sure thing as a tackle as any player in the draft. And that his character and football IQ are off the charts.

 

People who are 6'7 and have built their legs up bigger than trees take football seriously. And he's from an NFL family with a father who was a lineman in the NFL and knows what to expect. His niceness gets confused with being soft, but he's all business. And even his critics say that his footwork is the best of any tackle in the draft. Every analyst I've read marvels at Peat's footwork and for a guy who is that huge to be able to ball-room dance is freakish.

 

As far as playing RT goes - if he's been holding the LT position, he can certainly handle the RT position.

 

I have a lot of faith in Reese, TC, McAdoo, and Flaherty to have done their homework and will make a good decision. They will know about a thousand times more than the combined opinions of the fans when it comes to which player best suits the Giants for the future.

 

I like Peat a lot. But I will also be happy with Flowers or Scherff. I trust the FO will know best.

 

 

I'll agree he has good footwork and anchors relatively well, but my problem is all of his power comes from his lower body and he has little upper body strength. He gets moved easily and playing RT is different than LT. At RT he is going up against strongside power DE and from what I've seen on tape he would struggle there

[Bigblue25]

 

I actually like Peat the most out of all the o-linemen, I do like Scherff a lot too so I'll be happy with either one. I like them both better than Flowers.

He's one of many of the debatable guts. 50 people like him, another 50 don't. Same with Flowers. Personally Flowers is my top ranked OT. Scherff is my top rated Giants pick. I would take Fisher, Humphries and probably Donovan Smith at 40 over Peat at 9. I want nastiness on the Giants oline

[BleedinBlue]

I'll agree he has good footwork and anchors relatively well, but my problem is all of his power comes from his lower body and he has little upper body strength. He gets moved easily and playing RT is different than LT. At RT he is going up against strongside power DE and from what I've seen on tape he would struggle there

Yeah, that's what they say about him. He's great at pass protection and can tie up anyone. But he's not the kind of guy who will pancake a guy to make a hole for a RB.

 

That's where Erick Flowers comes in - far better for the run game, not so much for pass protection.

 

If you get Peat - your QB is safe, but he's got to build strength in order to use for the rushing game.

 

If you get Flowers - your rushing game improves, but he's going to give up sacks until he gets up to speed with his footwork.

[Mr. P]

As long as the guy ends up worthy of his spot,and reese has shown to be able to nail the first round, we are going to be getting a very good player.

[Bigblue25]

Yeah, that's what they say about him. He's great at pass protection and can tie up anyone. But he's not the kind of guy who will pancake a guy to make a hole for a RB.

 

That's where Erick Flowers comes in - far better for the run game, not so much for pass protection.

 

If you get Peat - your QB is safe, but he's got to build strength in order to use for the rushing game.

 

If you get Flowers - your rushing game improves, but he's going to give up sacks until he gets up to speed with his footwork.

Flowers needs to improve his technique and footwork, but he gave up zero sacks last year. He owned Gregory

[BleedinBlue]

Flowers needs to improve his technique and footwork, but he gave up zero sacks last year. He owned Gregory

He will face a different challenge once he gets to the NFL. So will Gregory for that matter.

 

I have no problem with Flowers and if that's who the FO likes the most, I'm very good with that. It would be a great thing to be a little mouse in the corner listening to what they are talking about.

 

Makes me wonder if they don't have techies come in to sweep the room for bugs before discussing the details of the draft. I have to think espionage could be a real possibility....especially with guys like Belichick in the league.

[Allstarjim]

It seems to be a lot harder to find complete games, all snaps for guys like Peat and Scherff this year.

[Sephiroth]

I am not big on Peat. Even the guys who like him talk about his weaknesses of being knocked off the ball. Hearing stuff like he "may not take to hard coaching" really concerns me. Also hearing things like he is snobbish and may not want football bad enough. I also don't see him having the power to play RT and would not be an upgrade over Pugh. Too me he's an LT only and we are not going to sit the 9th overall pick for a year. I am really getting sick to my stomach thinking Peat is the pick

 

I've heard he's a finesse guy and we already have one of those at LT.

[Herc]

two guys on francessa's show said that the coaching staff loves scherff and the office likes flowers. if that's the case i think we end up with flowers

[BleedinBlue]

The one thing I've heard repeatedly on shows is that "Scherff is the safest pick in the draft"....in other words, not sexy, no risk, plug him in and you will never hear his name the rest of his career because you only hear the names of o-linemen when they screw up.

 

I'd love to have Scherff, but I want a legit tackle as well who will take care of business for the next decade. Peat or Flowers would make me very happy.

[Bigblue25]

 

I've heard he's a finesse guy and we already have one of those at LT.

Player Comparison: William Beatty. Beatty and Peat (6-6, 319) are virtually the same size. Both of them are well-rounded blockers who aren't particularly dominant in the ground or pass game. It took some time, but Beatty emerged as a quality left tackle in 2014 and Peat could follow a similar track in the NFL.

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2015apeat.php#dzzTSXBdCbIWygBs.99

[BleedinBlue]

Everyone has an opinion (including me) and none of them mean much unless they are talking with Reese and TC and they probably wouldn't give up what they're thinking if a gun was to their head.

 

Saw this article with another opinion:

 

Andrus Peat Vs. Brandon Scherff http://gmenhq.com/2015/04/29/2015-nfl-draft-andrus-peat-vs-brandon-scherff/

[Bigblue25]

Everyone has an opinion (including me) and none of them mean much unless they are talking with Reese and TC and they probably wouldn't give up what they're thinking if a gun was to their head.

 

Saw this article with another opinion:

 

Andrus Peat Vs. Brandon Scherff http://gmenhq.com/2015/04/29/2015-nfl-draft-andrus-peat-vs-brandon-scherff/

He uses the reasoning for drafting Peat because he's the safer bet?

[BleedinBlue]

He uses the reasoning for drafting Peat because he's the safer bet?

Yeah...the thing that made me raise an eyebrow was once again, calling Scherff the same as Zack Martin. Their skill set is nothing alike.

 

Simply another opinion by another guy who probably has no inside information.

 

I do think Peat has a really high ceiling and being a couple years younger than Scherff, it's impossible to compare what Peat will be like in 2 years when he's the same age as Scherff now. Athletes tend to peak in athletic skill around 28-29 when their bodies are still producing more testosterone and not on the reduced testosterone side of the 29 year old apex. Plus, a person's brain isn't fully developed until they are 24 - 25. So we don't know how much Peat will improve.

 

At this point in his life, he's miles ahead of Beatty when he was 21. I wouldn't compare the two.

 

Regardless - Scherff, Flowers, or Peat will be fine with me. In the back of my mind, I feel I would be a little disappointed if we didn't get Peat....sorta how I felt last year when we didn't get Martin. Hopefully, if I'm disappointed this year, I'll be as elated with the pick they did go with later like I was with OBJ.

 

2 1/2 hours to go....drip, drip, drip