Was Last Year's Defense Really that Bad?

[Mr. P]

Two SB wins in the last six years?

 

I'm starting to think this fan base would of been better off if the Giants never even made the SB in those years, that way people could at least have a reason to act like the Giant's have never accomplished anything.

 

no shit right.

[fishgutmartyr]

Being ranked 31st out of 32 teams is based solely on yards. We were 20th on points allowed...which isn't good, but the 31st figure is a little misleading.

 

I readily admit that we have a problem with the "Read-option" offense, which works like a charm against teams with a very aggressive defense. Hence, the offense blocks all but one player and the QB watches that lone player to see what he is going to do and as soon as that guy commits to 1 of 2 choices, then the QB acts accordingly and goes the opposite direction, whether keeping the ball and running or a play-action pass. With the advent of RGIII and other running QB's, we have to figure that out. If we were not trying to sack the QB on every play, we would be a lot better at stopping the read-option plays that devastated us last year...in particular, the Skins who racked up ridiculous yards against us that has to be factored into the yards-against category..

 

That kind of yardage lost means you're giving up both time of possession and field position. That means the offense has to score at a higher rate in less time and start with long fields. Granted, turnovers help, but not so much when you get an interception within your own 20--other than preventing a score, it's basically a well-placed punt.

 

Giving up that amount of yardage also puts pressure on special teams--now they're forced to do yeoman's work on every punt to at least force the opponent's offense to score on long fields--any return, any poor kick (I don't even mean shanked punts) will probably result in a field goal at least.

 

Yards allowed isn't misleading--maybe not the whole story, but definitely not misleading.

[Sephiroth]

 

 

Two SB wins in the last six years?

 

I'm starting to think this fan base would of been better off if the Giants never even made the SB in those years, that way people could at least have a reason to act like the Giant's have never accomplished anything.

 

I'd be much more alarmed if the fans here were saying, "31st defense? It's cool... we won the Super Bowl two years ago, no reason to get worried." Resting on past accomplishments is the sign of a losing francise.

 

31st is not acceptable no matter how people try to spin it.

[Nas]

I'd be much more alarmed if the fans here were saying, "31st defense? It's cool... we won the Super Bowl two years ago, no reason to get worried." Resting on past accomplishments is the sign of a losing francise.

 

31st is not acceptable no matter how people try to spin it.

 

Exactly. Yes I am very happy we won 2 SBs over the past few years... but I'm not too happy about being ranked 31st in D... going 9-7, missing the playoffs and seeing the Redskins embarrass us.

[Mr. P]

I'd be much more alarmed if the fans here were saying, "31st defense? It's cool... we won the Super Bowl two years ago, no reason to get worried." Resting on past accomplishments is the sign of a losing francise.

 

31st is not acceptable no matter how people try to spin it.

 

 

Hell, most of us would welcome Spags back with open arms.

 

 

isn't 'resting on post accomplishments' what we would be doing with bringing Spags back, you know, the only DC in the nfl with a worse defense than us last year.

[Nas]

isn't 'resting on post accomplishments' what we would be doing with bringing Spags back, you know, the only DC in the nfl with a worse defense than us last year.

 

That maybe true but one can argue it was his first year with that D and he doesn't have the same personnel the Giants have... of course the counter-argument is the Giants don't have the same personnel as a few years ago...

 

Thanks Pdub, I just finished arguing with myself.

[fringe]

isn't 'resting on post accomplishments' what we would be doing with bringing Spags back, you know, the only DC in the nfl with a worse defense than us last year.

The NFL had a foot on the throat of New Orleans last year. That was a no win situation. He'll spend a year with the Ravens and be a genius again.

[BlueInCanada]

isn't 'resting on post accomplishments' what we would be doing with bringing Spags back, you know, the only DC in the nfl with a worse defense than us last year.

 

Shhh Pdoub, don't try to talk common sense.

[JMFP]

I'd be much more alarmed if the fans here were saying, "31st defense? It's cool... we won the Super Bowl two years ago, no reason to get worried." Resting on past accomplishments is the sign of a losing francise.

 

31st is not acceptable no matter how people try to spin it.

 

Agreed.....the reason the Giants didn't make the playoffs was:

 

1) The NFC East improved.

2) The defense cratered at the end of the season.

3) Eli was not on fire the entire season.

 

Fact is, the Giants would have zero Super Bowls if the 2012 Defense showed up in 1986, 1990, 2007 and 2011.

 

I'm getting chills just thinking about it.

[Nas]

Shhh Pdoub, don't try to talk common sense.

 

Comparing NO to NYG in terms of personnel and what Fringe said isn't a fair comparison.

[BleedinBlue]

 

 

Comparing NO to NYG in terms of personnel and what Fringe said isn't a fair comparison.

 

That's a good point. The coach had been suspended, forfeited draft picks, and players had bailed from the team being penalized for their past infractions.

 

Even though the Giants allowed 368 yds per game (or something like that, don't feel like looking it up), the Saints allowed like 450 yds per game. And if the Giants hadn't gotten torched by the Redskins for over 800 yds in our two games, and had been held to the average give up, the Giants would be ranked closer to the middle of the pack. Factoring the Redskins game killed the Giants defensive numbers. And it's all because they aren't geared for the "Read Option" offense which killed us.

 

The Saints problems were real problems last year.

[Nas]

That's a good point. The coach had been suspended, forfeited draft picks, and players had bailed from the team being penalized for their past infractions.

 

Even though the Giants allowed 368 yds per game (or something like that, don't feel like looking it up), the Saints allowed like 450 yds per game. And if the Giants hadn't gotten torched by the Redskins for over 800 yds in our two games, and had been held to the average give up, the Giants would be ranked closer to the middle of the pack. Factoring the Redskins game killed the Giants defensive numbers. And it's all because they aren't geared for the "Read Option" offense which killed us.

 

The Saints problems were real problems last year.

 

I don't think it's a matter of the Giants not being geared to defend the read option as much as it's Fewel who didn't have a clue. I think other teams in the league had a lot of success preparing. I remember when Fox used to prepare the Giants to contain McNabb and he was good at making adjustments.

[JMFP]

Comparing NO to NYG in terms of personnel and what Fringe said isn't a fair comparison.

 

True.

 

NO players were still bent about what happened with Williams. Spags came in there with a "clean it up" attitude, and the Saints players weren't buying it.

 

Giants players loved Spags, and had veterans like Strahan and Pierce to drive home the message. The teams might as well have been on different planets as far as locker room chemistry was concerned. And, the Giants defense also had much better talent.

[fishgutmartyr]

True.

 

NO players were still bent about what happened with Williams. Spags came in there with a "clean it up" attitude, and the Saints players weren't buying it.

 

Giants players loved Spags, and had veterans like Strahan and Pierce to drive home the message. The teams might as well have been on different planets as far as locker room chemistry was concerned. And, the Giants defense also had much better talent.

 

NO also had a couple of players suspended for the season. I'm not a "Spags as deity" kind of guy, but his situation last year was a no-win. The NFL did everything it could to cripple that team.

 

Which means that the NY Giants could have had the worst defense in the NFL that didn't have extenuating circumstances.

[Tempest]

I don't give a shit about yards, I care about points on the board... you know the difference between a win and a loss! Our defense was horrible because we stop the run and get into passing downs that allow the best pass rushers in the league to do what they do best, get the QB.

 

We couldn't stop the run unless the RB tripped over his own feet last season.

[CrazedDogs]

I don't think they were as bad as the yardage totals indicate. Fewell's defense is predicated on getting turnovers, which of course invites longer gains. They were 2nd in the league last season in takeaways.

[JMFP]

NO also had a couple of players suspended for the season. I'm not a "Spags as deity" kind of guy, but his situation last year was a no-win. The NFL did everything it could to cripple that team.

 

Which means that the NY Giants could have had the worst defense in the NFL that didn't have extenuating circumstances.

 

Between the Rams and NO, Spags didn't get any breaks. But, it was his choice to go that route.....he's a young guy, and was a "made man" in NY. He could have easily ridden the gravy train until Coughlin retired, and likely would have had a strong shot to be HC.

 

Can't blame him for taking the Rams job, but that's usually the sort of team a new coach inherits.

 

Makes what Coughlin accomplished with the Jags all the more impressive.

[JMFP]

I don't give a shit about yards, I care about points on the board... you know the difference between a win and a loss! Our defense was horrible because we stop the run and get into passing downs that allow the best pass rushers in the league to do what they do best, get the QB.

 

We couldn't stop the run unless the RB tripped over his own feet last season.

 

Teams with mediocre offenses usually stick their defenses in bad situations with field position and turnovers, and that has a direct impact on points allowed.

 

Yards allowed is the best metric, in my opinion, to rank a defense. It tells me how much ground a defense gives up when they are actually on the field.

[fishgutmartyr]

I don't give a shit about yards, I care about points on the board... you know the difference between a win and a loss! Our defense was horrible because we stop the run and get into passing downs that allow the best pass rushers in the league to do what they do best, get the QB.

 

We couldn't stop the run unless the RB tripped over his own feet last season.

 

How many points do you need if your opponent's offense can't get on the field?

 

Conversely, how many points on the board is your team going to have if your offense can't get off the sidelines?

 

Especially if your defense is losing ground against the run, which is a real clock-killer. It's not just the yardage, it's the amount of time taken off the clock accumulating that yardage that will kill a team.

 

We won our second Lombardi with a textbook example of this concept.