Bye Week

[BIGBLUE01]

I'm more worried about Eli playing when it's colder.. he doesn't seem to like to warm up and usually that's when his game suffers.

 

Except in Green Bay on 08.

[Treehugger]

I was not too happy with Osi's efforts yesterday. He seems to take some plays off. And he ole'd that fumble recovery. Looks like he didn't want to dive into the pile.

After that play I remember thinking the camera angle made him look closer to the ball than he was. I think the ball was still several paces away from "divable" for Osi, though I could be wrong. I was screaming for someone to jump on it too.

[Storm]

Man you back peddle faster than a poet being asked to wash dishes.

 

 

Here's how it works. The tackles and LB'ers have a responsibility to engage blockers, and fill gaps along the line of scrimmage. The ends are supposed to contain the rush by not letting it get to the outside of them.

 

If a lb'er misses a gap, gets washed out by a blocker or blows a tackle it then becomes incumbent upon the safety to step up and make a tackle. They are not trying to steer the runner anywhere. They are the last line of defense, hence "SAFETY".

 

 

I admire the fact that you are intensely loyal to the players but you are crazy if you think this TD was somehow Perry Fewell's fault.

 

Grant took a bad angle on the runner and got burned. Don't get me wrong, I like Grant a lot and am very glad we have him, but on that play he failed to execute.

 

Chill out dude, everyone knew exactly what he was talking about, and he's right. If Grant had simply managed to stay in front of him and force him to make a move, his teammates could have tackled the runner. His job, in that case, WAS to contain the runner and ensure he doesn't score a touchdown, whether by tackling him or slowing him down. He didn't do either of those, Nas is right. What the fuck is up with the argument?

 

As far as I can tell, HE'S BLAMING GRANT. Not Fewell. And you essentially repeated exactly what he just said to you.

[JMFP]

I loved watching that game yesterday. Eli was so good. And that day could've been better as he just missed on long connections and Manningham got stripped on a TD. But great game for the GMEN. I liked how the Giants played the run much better in the 2nd half, that was big. I saw Kiwanuka playing well and making big stops in the run game. And of course, Bradshaw was running real tough, even on the short gainers. We even got a Da'Rell Scott sighting.

 

Again, JPP was a disruptive force. He's our defensive MVP so far this year. The big time players played big time. I was really happy with the 2nd half defense, came out and responded real well after getting their butts kicked in the first half. It was driving me crazy again, though, seeing us get the Bills into 3rd and long situations and then only rushing 4 at Fitzpatrick. I still think this defense can play better, but I was really happy with the play of Webster (who is proving he's one of the best corners in the NFL), Kiwanuka, Boley, Phillips, and Rolle.

 

I would've liked to see us punch it in at the end rather than settle for the 3, but glad we pulled the win out.

 

We have to beat Miami week 8 and after last week's debacle against Seattle I'm not taking anything for granted. I really thought we should be 5-1 right now and even needed to have that record at this point, but we are heading into the bye in first place and I'll definitely take it. Good news is that Grossman has played himself out of the starting lineup, and the 'Skins are probably going with Beck now. Just not a good situation for them. The Cowboys lost again, but have St Louis next week. Then they play the Eagles the following week, tough game to decide who to root for. If Dallas wins they are 4-3 (assuming they beat the Rams). But if Philly wins they are 3-4, and I'd really like to see them 2-5.

 

Back to us, we really need to win and enjoy playing Miami, because it's not going to get easy after that. The next 5 games are @New England, @San Francisco (that team is on fire, defense is really good, too), home for Philly, @New Orleans, and home for Green Bay. That is about as brutal a 5 game stretch as I can imagine. If we win 3 of those games, I'll be excited, because we should be 8-4 at that point with the final 4 games being manageable, with Washington, the Jets, and both games against Dallas coming in that stretch, and I think we win 3 of those four, minimum.

 

Now here's the good news. Two weeks without a game... and when we play Miami, we should get some reinforcements, and we're going to need them. Most notably, Tuck and Jacobs should be back, and that's going to be a huge lift. We should also get Prince Amukamara back and I'm excited about him, because he has real athleticism. Hopefully he's a quick study because we need him... Justin Tryon yesterday was a nightmare. Ramses Barden and Adam Koets will also be coming off of PUP. We'll see what we get out of them but it's time for Barden to contribute.

 

At minimum, the return of Tuck and Jacobs are going to be a big lift to this team, and we can be optimistic about Amukamara improving the secondary as the season goes on, as well.

 

 

Great summary, Jim.

 

4-2 and 1st place is plenty fine with me. Getting Tuck, Snee, and Prince healthy over the bye will be huge. After Miami, it looks like a real meat grinder.

 

The D is very worrisome, but hopefully, Tuck will be back, and that should immediately help the run defense. But the bloom is off the rose regarding that 4-2-5 front. Hopefully when Prince comes back that allows Rolle to slide back into the safety position and we’ll see less Deon Grant. I really like Grant for his leadership and overall character, but I think he’s out there too much.

 

Run offense is likewise a major concern. If you didn’t watch the game, you’d think Bradshaw stole the show….but really, Eli was the one moving that team up and down the field all day. Still, yesterday was a huge improvement for the offensive line and Bradshaw, and hopefully they can keep that going.

 

The $64mm question is whether Eli can maintain the level of play through the stretch. I understand that winter weather is going to have an impact, but that will be the case throughout the NFL. Right now, he’s making the media eat crow for blowing that whole Tom Brady comparison out of proportion.

 

This season so far has been about guys stepping up to replace injuries and free agent defections…….e.g, Jake Ballard, Cruz, Williams, Jones, Ross.

 

There’s alot of football left to be played, but going into the bye, they’ve set themselves up nicely.

[Nas]

Except in Green Bay on 08.

 

Yes I'm aware... I was bitching about him not warming up and my observation is when he doens't.. he's off. That game was more of an exception to the rule.

[Nas]

Chill out dude, everyone knew exactly what he was talking about, and he's right. If Grant had simply managed to stay in front of him and force him to make a move, his teammates could have tackled the runner. His job, in that case, WAS to contain the runner and ensure he doesn't score a touchdown, whether by tackling him or slowing him down. He didn't do either of those, Nas is right. What the fuck is up with the argument?

 

As far as I can tell, HE'S BLAMING GRANT. Not Fewell. And you essentially repeated exactly what he just said to you.

 

Thanks, Storm

 

H tends to carry arguments from the P&R section here that's all

[Treehugger]

If you guys watch that play again you'll see Grant was lined up deep middle to protect against the long pass, not for run contain. I can't blame him for that play exploding.

[BIGBLUE01]

Yes I'm aware... I was bitching about him not warming up and my observation is when he doens't.. he's off. That game was more of an exception to the rule.

 

Ah, my bad. I read it fast and thought you meant warming up while playing in cold weather.

[Storm]

If you guys watch that play again you'll see Grant was lined up deep middle to protect against the long pass, not for run contain. I can't blame him for that play exploding.

 

....defintely NOT the point.

 

It was his attempt at "tackling", Tree. It doesn't matter if your assignment, at the beginning of a play is to play a long pass. As soon as you see a running back with a head of steam, running upfield untouched, you're no longer in pass coverage, are you?

 

It was Grant's job to slow that play down, period. He didn't.

 

You guys can argue about what "containment" means all day, but it's completely irrelevant and beside the point. The point is, Grant had an opportunity to stop a big play and he didn't. There was similar play, week 2 against the Eagles, I believe, in which Kenny Phillips tackled Mccoy (I think) on a similarly busted run play up the gut. Phillips went in for the hit and was skilled enough and took a good enough angle to make the play and it saved a touchdown. In comparison, Deon Grant looked like he was trying to do the "Soulja Boy" instead of tackling Fred Jackson and gave up a touchdown.

 

I suggest watching the two plays and comparing them. What TO DO when a running back is coming at you and you're the last guy left-Phillips. What NOT TO DO when a running back is coming at you and you're the last guy left- Grant.

[Storm]

I mean, look at this, Tree.......... Jackson's TD

 

Seating a toddler on the field in Deon Grant's exact position would have seen the odds of Jackson getting tackled before the end zone increase ten-fold. Absolutely pathetic. And I really like Deon Grant, he was a gamer last year for us. That, however, was a complete failure of Safety 101.

[fringe]

After that play I remember thinking the camera angle made him look closer to the ball than he was. I think the ball was still several paces away from "divable" for Osi, though I could be wrong. I was screaming for someone to jump on it too.

you could be right. he just seems to like to "join the party" as opposed to putting in max effort on every play. maybe more platooning will help.

[boohyah]

Grant didn't play the wrong angle on that play. An Angle is measured in degrees and last i heard, zero degrees is not an angle.

[boohyah]

I loved watching that game yesterday. Eli was so good. And that day could've been better as he just missed on long connections and Manningham got stripped on a TD. But great game for the GMEN. I liked how the Giants played the run much better in the 2nd half, that was big. I saw Kiwanuka playing well and making big stops in the run game. And of course, Bradshaw was running real tough, even on the short gainers. We even got a Da'Rell Scott sighting.

 

Again, JPP was a disruptive force. He's our defensive MVP so far this year. The big time players played big time. I was really happy with the 2nd half defense, came out and responded real well after getting their butts kicked in the first half. It was driving me crazy again, though, seeing us get the Bills into 3rd and long situations and then only rushing 4 at Fitzpatrick. I still think this defense can play better, but I was really happy with the play of Webster (who is proving he's one of the best corners in the NFL), Kiwanuka, Boley, Phillips, and Rolle.

 

I would've liked to see us punch it in at the end rather than settle for the 3, but glad we pulled the win out.

 

We have to beat Miami week 8 and after last week's debacle against Seattle I'm not taking anything for granted. I really thought we should be 5-1 right now and even needed to have that record at this point, but we are heading into the bye in first place and I'll definitely take it. Good news is that Grossman has played himself out of the starting lineup, and the 'Skins are probably going with Beck now. Just not a good situation for them. The Cowboys lost again, but have St Louis next week. Then they play the Eagles the following week, tough game to decide who to root for. If Dallas wins they are 4-3 (assuming they beat the Rams). But if Philly wins they are 3-4, and I'd really like to see them 2-5.

 

Back to us, we really need to win and enjoy playing Miami, because it's not going to get easy after that. The next 5 games are @New England, @San Francisco (that team is on fire, defense is really good, too), home for Philly, @New Orleans, and home for Green Bay. That is about as brutal a 5 game stretch as I can imagine. If we win 3 of those games, I'll be excited, because we should be 8-4 at that point with the final 4 games being manageable, with Washington, the Jets, and both games against Dallas coming in that stretch, and I think we win 3 of those four, minimum.

 

Now here's the good news. Two weeks without a game... and when we play Miami, we should get some reinforcements, and we're going to need them. Most notably, Tuck and Jacobs should be back, and that's going to be a huge lift. We should also get Prince Amukamara back and I'm excited about him, because he has real athleticism. Hopefully he's a quick study because we need him... Justin Tryon yesterday was a nightmare. Ramses Barden and Adam Koets will also be coming off of PUP. We'll see what we get out of them but it's time for Barden to contribute.

 

At minimum, the return of Tuck and Jacobs are going to be a big lift to this team, and we can be optimistic about Amukamara improving the secondary as the season goes on, as well.

 

That's the thing, the schedules going to get much harder, but by the looks of things we'll be bringing guys back around then.

 

Think about this. JPP has basically played one year of football, he has no spin move, and he has issues with leverage. but right off the bag his speed is killing guys, he's instinctive andhe actually plays the run. Imagine where this guy is going in terms of talent. he could end up in the pro bowl this year!

 

I also like what Joseph is doing, I see big things here with this kid. I think playing with Canty is a big help, canty is leading more by example of there.

 

One other thing, people are commenting that Eli is playing better, well so is Bradshaw. He's running smarter and not fumbling, which is huge for us.

[Storm]

Grant didn't play the wrong angle on that play. An Angle is measured in degrees and last i heard, zero degrees is not an angle.

 

Uh, what?

 

If you want to be specific about it, he ran toward 1 o clock to get to the ball carrier, and completely missed. He should have expanded his ANGLE and aimed more toward like 2 o clock. I don't know specifically what angle that would be because I have no idea what you want to use as a reference in the 3 dimensional plane. He definitely took an angle toward him. Watch the video. And had he no taken any angle and ran straight at him, it doesn't take away the fact he could have converged on the ball carrier but didn't because his aim was off (as in, he took the wrong angle. which he did).

[JackStroud]

Osi might not have the stats but he is a disruptive force.........you have to account for him, if you do not he can hurt you badly as in sack/strip/TD

 

We cannot let him go........If we do trade him to Denver or something

 

I do not want to see his face lining up for Dallas, or Philly........but we cannot break the bank for him either

 

we have him for a year and a half right? By that time his knee might be gone completely

[boohyah]

Uh, what?

 

If you want to be specific about it, he ran toward 1 o clock to get to the ball carrier, and completely missed. He should have expanded his ANGLE and aimed more toward like 2 o clock. I don't know specifically what angle that would be because I have no idea what you want to use as a reference in the 3 dimensional plane. He definitely took an angle toward him. Watch the video. And had he no taken any angle and ran straight at him, it doesn't take away the fact he could have converged on the ball carrier but didn't because his aim was off (as in, he took the wrong angle. which he did).

 

 

Damn it Storm, it's an exaggeration man!. I'm making fun of the angle he took or lack of. I know what he should have done.

[Storm]

Damn it Storm, it's an exaggeration man!. I'm making fun of the angle he took or lack of. I know what he should have done.

 

Lol, sorry......I thought the whole board was suddenly getting on a semantics kick, haha.

 

"It wasn't him losing CONTAIN, that's not what CONTAIN means, it was him not stopping the guy that was coming at him! And shit like that...."

[hlb37]

Lol, sorry......I thought the whole board was suddenly getting on a semantics kick, haha.

 

"It wasn't him losing CONTAIN, that's not what CONTAIN means, it was him not stopping the guy that was coming at him! And shit like that...."

 

 

So your position remains that a safety's primary responsibility on a RB reaching the 3rd and final level of the defense is NOT to make a tackle but rather to slow the guy down a little or redirect him??

 

and is "slow the guy down a little" or "redirect him" vague enough for us to avoid any semantic confusion?

 

 

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with Nas or your position on this no matter how you want to try and couch it.

[Treehugger]

....defintely NOT the point.

 

It was his attempt at "tackling", Tree. It doesn't matter if your assignment, at the beginning of a play is to play a long pass. As soon as you see a running back with a head of steam, running upfield untouched, you're no longer in pass coverage, are you?

After Williams helped to take himself out of the play the advantage was all Jackson's. If Jackson had been allowed to cut to his right there was absolutely no one there, Grant had to direct him the other way, towards more Giants DBs.

[JackStroud]

I had just sent a private message to UK just before that play that if we decided to bring the house we had better leave someone to protect the middle

 

We didn't..............Grant was very late to the scene...They should keep Williams as a spy on Blitzes.......hes very fast

[Allstarjim]

Ok, you guys have beaten this thing to a pulp. I think everyone agrees he took a bad angle, and should've made a play. Let's move on to Miami, ok?

 

I say there's no way we lose this game. Matt Moore looked really, really terrible last night. I watched most of the first half. I think it was the first drive Sparano went for it on 4th and inches and they called a play action pass (just QB sneak it)... and Moore had FB Lex Hilliard WIDE OPEN underneath about 4 yards past the yard line to gain... and he threw past him to a covered receiver... I believe he was covered by Revis, too. Incomplete, turnover on downs. I was like, WOW, I'm so glad we have Eli, that was embarrassing.

 

We have to stop the run in that game, there is no way that Matt Moore is going to beat us. I would rush at least 5 every play. I'm sure we won't see that, though. Eli just needs to play turnover free, and we win that game. Look at the Jets, their offense is shit and they still scored a couple of TD's, which is all they needed. I'd say the one strength Miami has is that they have a good pass rushing/run stopping front 7. But I still think we can run on them well and I expect a big day from Brandon Jacobs and Bradshaw.

[BleedinBlue]

Ok, you guys have beaten this thing to a pulp. I think everyone agrees he took a bad angle, and should've made a play. Let's move on to Miami, ok?

 

I say there's no way we lose this game. Matt Moore looked really, really terrible last night. I watched most of the first half. I think it was the first drive Sparano went for it on 4th and inches and they called a play action pass (just QB sneak it)... and Moore had FB Lex Hilliard WIDE OPEN underneath about 4 yards past the yard line to gain... and he threw past him to a covered receiver... I believe he was covered by Revis, too. Incomplete, turnover on downs. I was like, WOW, I'm so glad we have Eli, that was embarrassing.

 

We have to stop the run in that game, there is no way that Matt Moore is going to beat us. I would rush at least 5 every play. I'm sure we won't see that, though. Eli just needs to play turnover free, and we win that game. Look at the Jets, their offense is shit and they still scored a couple of TD's, which is all they needed. I'd say the one strength Miami has is that they have a good pass rushing/run stopping front 7. But I still think we can run on them well and I expect a big day from Brandon Jacobs and Bradshaw.

Good points, but I cringe when I hear those words that should never be uttered: "there is no way we lose this game". Maybe it's because I'm a lot older than a lot of guys on this board and have seen great teams lose to patsies. Because of it, I never ever say that a team can't lose. It's like challenging the gods of the odd bouncing football. I think that if the Giants don't turn the ball over and play solid "D", we "SHOULD" win the game. But a couple of mistakes like a fumble, a pick-6, or our ST failing to stop a darting returner can change everything.

 

How I would say it is, "if we play clean football and strong "D", we have a really good chance to win this game....maybe by a large margin". But that's just me.

[Nas]

Grant didn't play the wrong angle on that play. An Angle is measured in degrees and last i heard, zero degrees is not an angle.

 

Actually it is.. you just can't see it

[Storm]

So your position remains that a safety's primary responsibility on a RB reaching the 3rd and final level of the defense is NOT to make a tackle but rather to slow the guy down a little or redirect him??

 

and is "slow the guy down a little" or "redirect him" vague enough for us to avoid any semantic confusion?

 

 

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with Nas or your position on this no matter how you want to try and couch it.

 

He didn't try to do EITHER of those. How can you disagree with the position that Deon Grant was in the best position to stop that without a touchdown and he completely and utterly failed?

 

His job is obviously to tackle him, but if he can't tackle him, his job is to get close enough to make him slow down so others can get there.

 

Like I said, had Deon Grant not moved at all, he was in a better position to make a play.

[Storm]

Ok, you guys have beaten this thing to a pulp. I think everyone agrees he took a bad angle, and should've made a play. Let's move on to Miami, ok?

 

I say there's no way we lose this game. Matt Moore looked really, really terrible last night. I watched most of the first half. I think it was the first drive Sparano went for it on 4th and inches and they called a play action pass (just QB sneak it)... and Moore had FB Lex Hilliard WIDE OPEN underneath about 4 yards past the yard line to gain... and he threw past him to a covered receiver... I believe he was covered by Revis, too. Incomplete, turnover on downs. I was like, WOW, I'm so glad we have Eli, that was embarrassing.

 

We have to stop the run in that game, there is no way that Matt Moore is going to beat us. I would rush at least 5 every play. I'm sure we won't see that, though. Eli just needs to play turnover free, and we win that game. Look at the Jets, their offense is shit and they still scored a couple of TD's, which is all they needed. I'd say the one strength Miami has is that they have a good pass rushing/run stopping front 7. But I still think we can run on them well and I expect a big day from Brandon Jacobs and Bradshaw.

 

Like, I don't think they get it. Apparently, he made a good play by completely whiffing on the angle and letting him run untouched up the entire middle of the field.