The Better Tight End...

[NeMesiS]

The obvious choice is Shockey.

 

You see, Bavaro, was a great TE. But defenses didn’t game plan against him. They were mostly worry about our running game and Phil Simms. Also, Bavaro started breaking down after his 3rd year. While Shockey’s 4th year was his best year.

 

Plus, Shockey has never openly bad mouth the Giants org., Bavaro has

[Martin]

you can't really compare the two. shockey gave us a whole other aspect of our offense. bavaro was there in a smashmouth style that parcells implemented. look at what our offense does without shockey... not much. bavaro wasn't flashy, no, but he wasn't asked to be. shockey is. we've asked shockey to do different things than bavaro was in his days. also remember that tight ends back then weren't what they are today. now they're big and fast with good hands, back then their roles as a receiver were much more limited.

 

 

that is true! the role of the TE has changed today !

 

it defintely has created more offense.

[lemmiwinks]

The obvious choice is Shockey.

 

You see, Bavaro, was a great TE. But defenses didn’t game plan against him. They were mostly worry about our running game and Phil Simms. Also, Bavaro started breaking down after his 3rd year. While Shockey’s 4th year was his best year.

 

Plus, Shockey has never openly bad mouth the Giants org., Bavaro has

:worshippy:

[lemmiwinks]

I like this pic of him beating one of the best safety in the NFL

 

[Guest Lockhart]

The obvious choice is Shockey.

 

You see, Bavaro, was a great TE. But defenses didn’t game plan against him. They were mostly worry about our running game and Phil Simms. Also, Bavaro started breaking down after his 3rd year. While Shockey’s 4th year was his best year.

 

Plus, Shockey has never openly bad mouth the Giants org., Bavaro has

 

 

This year the defenses were only worried about Tiki. The second half of the season team were putting 8 in the box to stop Tiki and DARING the Giants to pass. If not for Tiki the Giants had no offense from November on. Shockey and Plaxico didn't scare defenses too much late - Carolina put 8 in the box and Shockey and Plaxico were still no factor. Bavaro excelled in big games - Shockey drops an easy TD against SF that would have iced the game, and this year against Carolina he seemed absent. The Giants were winning games early when teams defensed Shockey and Plaxico, but when they realized Tiki was the offense, they threw everything at him, and it worked. Shockey has the flash, but Bavaro is clearly the better TE and much better football player.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Lockhart

[lemmiwinks]

I like this pic of him beating one of the best safety in the NFL

 

 

Oh and here he is Making Tank look like a little girl

[jambrosio]

This year the defenses were only worried about Tiki. The second half of the season team were putting 8 in the box to stop Tiki and DARING the Giants to pass. If not for Tiki the Giants had no offense from November on. Shockey and Plaxico didn't scare defenses too much late - Carolina put 8 in the box and Shockey and Plaxico were still no factor. Bavaro excelled in big games - Shockey drops an easy TD against SF that would have iced the game, and this year against Carolina he seemed absent. The Giants were winning games early when teams defensed Shockey and Plaxico, but when they realized Tiki was the offense, they threw everything at him, and it worked. Shockey has the flash, but Bavaro is clearly the better TE and much better football player.

thats only because eli was falling apart as the year went on. once eli puts a full season together, you will see that change

[Gspotter]

1. Today the TE position is manned by a lazy Metro-sexual, with Bavaro they had a real football player.

 

2. In Parcell's day the TE both blocked and received passes - Bavaro did both well and never dropped balls - today the postion is manned by a whiner, who drops passes and throws hissy fits on the field, on the few occasions he isn't injured.

 

3. When Bavaro made the pro bowl he earned it and showed up in Hawaii to play - Now the voting includes fans and is more of a popularity contest - Shockey blows off pro bowls to party in Miami.

 

4. I am of the FAB 4 - there is nothing that we DON'T understand.

 

Poorly thought out non answers that fail to address how different the league is by talent, size, position redefinition, and regulations.

 

Please ask why FB's don't carry the ball as well.

 

You are a shameful turd that this Mb stepped in and we're having trouble getting you out of the waffle of our boot.

[NeMesiS]

This year the defenses were only worried about Tiki. The second half of the season team were putting 8 in the box to stop Tiki and DARING the Giants to pass. If not for Tiki the Giants had no offense from November on. Shockey and Plaxico didn't scare defenses too much late - Carolina put 8 in the box and Shockey and Plaxico were still no factor. Bavaro excelled in big games - Shockey drops an easy TD against SF that would have iced the game, and this year against Carolina he seemed absent. The Giants were winning games early when teams defensed Shockey and Plaxico, but when they realized Tiki was the offense, they threw everything at him, and it worked. Shockey has the flash, but Bavaro is clearly the better TE and much better football player.

Unfortunately (And I know I’m opening a bombardment I hate Eli post from the fag4) defenses were not scared of Shockey and Plaxico is because of Eli and the offensive line. The combination of both Eli (Missing Shockey and Burress when they were WIDE open) and the offensive line (Sometime not giving Eli enough time to throw, and making stupid penalties. Which put them in obvious passing situation.) didn't allow Shockey to put even better nembers.

 

I mean, come on, how many times was Shockey WIDE open and Eli completely missed him? Also, I recall on several occasion Shockey being double teamed, which indicates to me that the Defensive coordinator had a game plan to stop Shockey.

 

So to completely blame Shockey for the miss firing of the offense, is absolutely ridiculous.

[lemmiwinks]

Poorly thought out non answers that fail to address how different the league is by talent, size, position redefinition, and regulations.

 

Please ask why FB's don't carry the ball as well.

 

You are a shameful turd that this Mb stepped in and we're having trouble getting you out of the waffle of our boot.

[Guest Lockhart]

thats only because eli was falling apart as the year went on. once eli puts a full season together, you will see that change

 

 

Granted, Eli was falling apart, but then Shockey and Plaxico were also going down the tubes. While Eli's play was clearly worsening, those two were doing next to nothing to help him, but they were throwing hissy fits on the field in front of th world showing their displeasure with Eli and the passing game. That certainly didn't help Eli and probably hastened his decline. Eli has to shoulder most of the blame for the passing game collapse, but Plaxico and Shockey were also culprits in this decline.

 

They further compound this problem by avoiding Eli and the Giants and remaining in Miami - this is something TO would do to McNabb.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Lockhart

[lemmiwinks]

Year Team Games Rec Yards Y/R TD

1985 NYG 16 37 511 13.8 4

1986 NYG 16 66 1001 15.2 4

1987 NYG 12 55 867 15.8 8

1988 NYG 16 53 672 12.7 4

1989 NYG 7 22 278 12.6 3

1990 NYG 15 33 393 11.9 5

1992 CLE 16 25 315 12.6 2

1993 PHI 16 43 481 11.2 6

1994 PHI 12 17 215 12.6 3

 

 

Career Totals 126 351 4733 13.5 39

 

Now are we comparing Shockey to NY Bavaro or PHI Bavaro.....The guy was a fucking trader....No real Giant would ever play for the Eagles

[NeMesiS]

Granted, Eli was falling apart, but then Shockey and Plaxico were also going down the tubes. While Eli's play was clearly worsening, those two were doing next to nothing to help him, but they were throwing hissy fits on the field in front of th world showing their displeasure with Eli and the passing game. That certainly didn't help Eli and probably hastened his decline. Eli has to shoulder most of the blame for the passing game collapse, but Plaxico and Shockey were also culprits in this decline.

 

They further compound this problem by avoiding Eli and the Giants and remaining in Miami - this is something TO would do to McNabb.

I see...I guess being WIDE doesn't help much.

[Gspotter]

Lem,

 

Thanks for the support. I just can't believe that on any given Sunday (when I'm here in the midwest) cheering my heart out there's this sucker yelling at the T.V. from his mom's basement saying, "see I told you so" every time Eli gets sacked or Shock doens't make a catch.

 

At least it's not the majority of the fans

[Firstnten]

Year Team Games Rec Yards Y/R TD

1985 NYG 16 37 511 13.8 4

1986 NYG 16 66 1001 15.2 4

1987 NYG 12 55 867 15.8 8

1988 NYG 16 53 672 12.7 4

1989 NYG 7 22 278 12.6 3

1990 NYG 15 33 393 11.9 5

1992 CLE 16 25 315 12.6 2

1993 PHI 16 43 481 11.2 6

1994 PHI 12 17 215 12.6 3

 

 

Career Totals 126 351 4733 13.5 39

 

Now are we comparing Shockey to NY Bavaro or PHI Bavaro.....The guy was a fucking trader....No real Giant would ever play for the Eagles

 

NY let him go because of his knees....if you saw him play in philly you might feel different...

 

in obvious pain he would come in and play..if memory serves me correctly he did not start and would come in as needed..

 

The guy should not have been on the field....

[UK-Giantsfan]

Lem,

 

Thanks for the support. I just can't believe that on any given Sunday (when I'm here in the midwest) cheering my heart out there's this sucker yelling at the T.V. from his mom's basement saying, "see I told you so" every time Eli gets sacked or Shock doens't make a catch.

 

At least it's not the majority of the fans

well said G man ..... i'm with you on this one

[Guest Lockhart]

here's an article about Shockey after his drop TD pass cost the Giants the playoff game:

Shockey's drop in end zone sends Giants spiraling

 

By Janie McCauley

The Associated Press

 

SAN FRANCISCO - Excitable rookie Jeremy Shockey hurled a cup of ice water when things were going well. He kicked the orange end-zone pylon in frustration when he dropped a touchdown pass that turned the momentum against the New York Giants.

 

A botched snap on a field-goal attempt with 6 seconds left was the biggest blow in the Giants' 39-38 NFC wild-card loss to San Francisco on Sunday - but the meltdown started with Shockey's miss.

 

Everything was working until that play late in the third quarter. Quarterback Kerry Collins pounded both fists to his helmet after Shockey failed to catch the near-perfect pass.

 

If Shockey had converted, New York would have led 42-14. The Giants settled for a field goal, their last points of the game.

 

"It's a bad feeling," said Shockey, who caught seven passes for 68 yards and a touchdown.

 

The Giants (10-7) blew a 24-point lead, yet still had a shot to win it in the final seconds.

Newly signed snapper Trey Junkin made a poor snap for the second time in the game, and Matt Bryant never got a chance to kick the potential winning field goal from 41 yards out.

 

"This is about the worst loss I have ever felt in my entire life," said Giants coach Jim Fassel, whose team won its final four games, including the last one of the season on an overtime field goal by Bryant. "I am not going to get over this one for a while."

 

Holder Matt Allen warned Bryant the snap could be low again.

 

"I told him, 'Just be aware, go ahead and trust me and to go ahead and expect the ball to go down,"' Allen said. "I told Junkin to get it right. I told him, 'You've been playing in this league for 19 years, you've got to come through for us."'

 

When the snap came and Allen couldn't control it, he scooped up the ball. Many of the Giants sprinted toward the end zone and Allen heaved a desperation pass that fell incomplete.

 

Flags were thrown because New York had linemen downfield, so even if the pass had been caught it wouldn't have mattered.

 

"I tried to make the perfect snap instead of a good snap," the 41-year-old Junkin said only five days after coming out of retirement to sign with the Giants. "You don't do that. This is something I've done for 32 years, but not anymore."

 

Bryant had missed wide left with 3:01 remaining from 42 yards after another low snap.

 

Long-snapping plagued the Giants all season.

 

Three bad snaps helped cost New York seven points in a 27-20 victory at Minnesota on Nov. 10. Fassel said that game caused him to lose sleep, because he was constantly waking up in the middle of the night recalling the miscues.

 

This cost the Giants much more - their season.

 

"It's very frustrating," Bryant said. "I can't even begin to tell you how frustrating. I've gone through five or six snappers and two holders. It's been strange this year. Probably, what's most frustrating of all is that I didn't get a chance."

 

Two of the Giants' starting offensive linemen, Jason Whittle and Chris Bober, came to the team as long snappers. When they developed enough at the position to start, the duties were taken away because practicing with kickers would have taken time away from their primary job.

 

After the fiasco in Minnesota, Whittle was used for a short time, but reluctantly.

 

Even quarterback Kerry Collins couldn't help being a little bit surprised about Junkin's performance after watching how well he snapped in practice. Collins stressed that Junkin wasn't the only one responsible for the second-worst collapse in NFL playoff history.

 

"It was just complete and utter shock," Collins said. "It shouldn't have come down to that. That's the bottom line and we have only ourselves to blame for that."

 

Bavaro makes the catch easily. Bavaro also doesn't start acting like some 5 year old , throwing ice and kicking things - great players sieze the moment, while lesser players fail.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Lockhart

[Gspotter]

Great posters seize the moment, while lesser one's post the same stupid garbage all the time.

 

At least when you were in diapers and JakkStroud invented the endless rant, he was occassionally worth talking to.

 

You do have the same M.O. as him, but that's not your fault, you're dumb. Now I can be civil to Jakk now that KC is gone. You however, well, your players aren't leaving any time soon, so we'll have to break you up slowly.

 

I'm up for it though.

[lemmiwinks]

Lem,

 

Thanks for the support. I just can't believe that on any given Sunday (when I'm here in the midwest) cheering my heart out there's this sucker yelling at the T.V. from his mom's basement saying, "see I told you so" every time Eli gets sacked or Shock doens't make a catch.

 

At least it's not the majority of the fans

[lemmiwinks]

NY let him go because of his knees....if you saw him play in philly you might feel different...

 

in obvious pain he would come in and play..if memory serves me correctly he did not start and would come in as needed..

 

The guy should not have been on the field....

 

Im just saying he is a FUCKING trader for playing with the E-girls.....

[lemmiwinks]

Great posters seize the moment, while lesser one's post the same stupid garbage all the time.

 

At least when you were in diapers and JakkStroud invented the endless rant, he was occassionally worth talking to.

 

You do have the same M.O. as him, but that's not your fault, you're dumb. Now I can be civil to Jakk now that KC is gone. You however, well, your players aren't leaving any time soon, so we'll have to break you up slowly.

 

I'm up for it though.

I got your back

[Firstnten]

Im just saying he is a FUCKING trader for playing with the E-girls.....

normaly I would agree....but not with Bavaro...NY kinda kicked him to the curb...

[Guest Lockhart]

Here's the kicker - last off season he stays in Miami to regain the form he had his rookie year - The Giants make the playoffs and he disappears again, just like 2002.

 

Bavaro was a football player - Shockey is the metro-sexual Self-absorbed TE that can't block, drops passes and whines a lot.

 

 

Mark Bavaro has Super Bowl Rings - 2 of them and was an intergral part of winning them. Shockey disappears or drops TD passes in critical moments of playoff games.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Lockhart

[Guest Floyd The Barber]

Im just saying he is a FUCKING trader for playing with the E-girls.....

 

 

who is the child now ?? what kind of statement is this ?? the guy had to earn a paycheck, no ??

 

and like many other NYG greats who gave the Organization there prime, and often there health, he was shown the door and considered expendable...

[420]

normaly I would agree....but not with Bavaro...NY kinda kicked him to the curb...

 

Not Bavaro...He wasn't a traitor he wqas released and still wanted to play. He played for the Browns I think before going to Philly. Bavaro is one of the good guys. Dhani Jones is a better example or Dan Cambell or the Tuna himself. Not Mark.