The New York Giants v Detroit Lions breakdown from yesterday, please do not read if you feel this an attempt to garner attention!

[boohyah]

TOO LATE!

 

LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME WRITING A SUMMARY. I'M SO GREAT!! :worshippy: :worshippy: :worshippy:

 

 

In all seriousness, what a strange game.

 

 

It's like we picked the Lions up by the tail and dangled them for 3 1/2 quarters, let them down and then realized "these are Lions we just released". Just not very bright ones.

 

I was looking forward to the Lions - Packers game on thanksgiving, because the Dallas game is going to be a dud and the other game is not being broadcast locally. However it looks like the Packers will be too strong for the Lions.

 

That said, this is the time of year where we tend to bottom out. I have to say that that was a nice rebound game by Eli yesterday, to me he looked poised and as Kramer said "poise counts". What 's really annoying about the broadcast yesterday was the sudden Eli lovefest towards the end of the game. They jump all over him last week cause he's not quite Romo, this week the Giants will win a superbowl with him. Pick a side Fox. Anyway he looked good. Jacobs limping off again was not a good sight, because he was having a strong game. Loved his running downfield after the catch, it's a real strong point for him because at that point he's taking on safeties and corners and he lights them up. Frankly I thought the Lions D played him pretty smart as they were hitting shoulder tackles but not grazing him like some of secondary tends to do. Droughans did some nice plough work when he came in, but we need Ward back soon, and I'd like to see us get Bradshaw some touches if they can fit him in. Offensive line did a nice job giving Eli time yesterday, but I have to say Eli did a nice job stepping into the pocket, much better than other games he's played where he has tending the stay back. Sinorice Moss is a BEAST!!!!. Seriously, we've been beating him up, but he did good yesterday and I don't even get on him for the fumble because the lions were going after that aggressively all day, it happened Jacobs too. If he could be relied on to run some streak patterns going forward that would be nice, because the long ball has been taken out of our playcalling with Plaxico struggling to get downfield. By the way, people who get down on Plax, please note the catch he made as he was falling down on the turf yesterday, that was a hell of a catch. Amazing how Hedgecock gets released by the Rams and becomes a starter for us, he's improving. Kevin Boss showed some nice soft hands yesterday, but he was lucky he didn't get stripped, because he didn't have a good grip on the ball. Toomer and Shockey did fine, Shockey is just tough boy!.

 

Strahan will now go to the pro bowl, Justin Tuck continues to impress, when you consider he's getting all his sacks as an undersized interior lineman. Osi's big contribution yesterday was to knock Kiwi out for the season. Poor Kiwi has had a very confusing second season. The Giants IMO have got to move Osi around a little, he's getting doubled and I wouldn't mind seeing him move around the line a little, have him in the 3-4 but line him up as a linebacker and blitz him. Do something, he's clearly a focus. It's going to be interesting to see how Torbor does now.by the way, I don't see him as a starter, but does Chase Blackburn play at all?. Seriously, I see Pierce out there all game and he looks tired sometimes, which I can understand. He needs a blow. It's going to be interesting at season's end to see what the Giants do with Gibril, because I think he's being pretty solid this year. Butler played better yesterday, but Sam madison is getting burned. I shudder at the thought that he could be the guy lined up on Moss, can't Aaron Ross get some reps as the "man" marker. Kevin Dockery, not Ross has buried Corey Webster, it's kinda sad to see.

 

I thought Special teams had their best game this season. Great on kickoff coverage, McQuarters running the ball back well, Bradshaw even better. And Tynes, is there a better kicker in the league. I'm glad I never got off his bandwagon!. Great job all around and an important one.

 

Coaching is maddening, Coughlin has that look on his face yesterday, but it was hard not to, because those dumb penalties kept coming up. But you have to wonder, when the Giants are 2nd and 1, why with 2 of the bigger rb's in the league, are we throwing the ball all the time. I realise it's the sexy thing to do, get those extra yards knowing that you have a 3rd and 1 in the bag, but shit, we've shown that that's not been too successful for us, and sure as shit yesterday, we're 2nd and 1, in the Red zone, pass incomplete, it's 3rd and 1, we get a 5 yard penalty and now it's 3rd and 6. There's a monster difference between 3rd and 1 and 3rd and 6 in the red zone. Pound the ball Kevin.........PLEASE???

 

I'm glad we won, we controlled the game, but we got lucky in the end as we kept them around. The Vikings coming to town gives us a chance to make a statement and hopefully we won't take it lightly, we can't afford to.

 

[Nas]

TOO LATE!

 

LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME WRITING A SUMMARY. I'M SO GREAT!!

:worshippy: :worshippy: :worshippy:

 

[Treehugger]

Lots of questions from yesterday:

 

1) Why did Coughlin accept the 4th down penalty by the Lions when we stopped them short? Instead of giving us the ball we gave them a shot at a FG. Good thing they missed or they could have tied it up in the dying minutes.

 

2a) What constitutes a forward pass?

 

2b) What constitutes a fumble?

 

2c) What constitutes intentional grounding?

 

3) Why does the NFL want to see us fail? Two bullshit holding calls off the play in two weeks in the return game, when the rules state that it has to affect the play to be a penalty.

 

4) Why hasn't Moss learned to run in a straight line? He's the fastest man in the league in a circle.

 

5) Can we tear the page out of the playbook titled "Shotgun Draw" now?

[boohyah]

5) Can we tear the page out of the playbook titled "Shotgun Draw" now?

 

 

That was our "hot potato" play.

[fringe]

1) Why did Coughlin accept the 4th down penalty by the Lions when we stopped them short? Instead of giving us the ball we gave them a shot at a FG. Good thing they missed or they could have tied it up in the dying minutes.

i was confused with that one too. what actually happened there?

[Nesta]

that 4th down penalty was a false start. A false start happens before the play begins, and therefore cannot be declined.

 

And booyah, I hope that was just a joke about Tynes.

[NightFire]

Wow you are an attention whore, double posts.

 

Anyway as usual it is the Giants beating the Giants.

[Sephiroth]

And Tynes, is there a better kicker in the league.

 

Surely, you jest.

 

And I'm with you, Tree, on the "in the grasp" thing. Tuck sacks Kitna and the ball falls forward... so the ref says, "The QB was in the grasp while trying to make a foward pass. Second down."

 

So... was he "in the grasp?" Because that's a sack... second-and-18. Or was it a foward pass? Because throwing a "foward pass" to your Guard is illegally grounding the ball... 10 yard penalty and loss of down, second-and-20. Or, if it was niether, than it was a fumble... first-and-10 for the Giants.

 

Of course, the refs can't get thier collective heads outta thier asses, so we get second-and-10 for the Lions. :brooding:

[boohyah]

Surely, you jest.

 

And I'm with you, Tree, on the "in the grasp" thing. Tuck sacks Kitna and the ball falls forward... so the ref says, "The QB was in the grasp while trying to make a foward pass. Second down."

 

So... was he "in the grasp?" Because that's a sack... second-and-18. Or was it a foward pass? Because throwing a "foward pass" to your Guard is illegally grounding the ball... 10 yard penalty and loss of down, second-and-20. Or, if it was niether, than it was a fumble... first-and-10 for the Giants.

 

Of course, the refs can't get thier collective heads outta thier asses, so we get second-and-10 for the Lions. :brooding:

 

 

The "in the grasp" rule was designed to protect the QB. Tuck had tackled him and was taking him to the ground and Kitna bailed himself out by trying to throw the ball, which he didn't it fell forward out of his hands. The minute Tuck had his arms wrapped around him the play is supposed to be blown dead. Refs bailed Kitna out on that one.

[boohyah]

that 4th down penalty was a false start. A false start happens before the play begins, and therefore cannot be declined.

 

And booyah, I hope that was just a joke about Tynes.

.

 

Read previous posts for answer on that one.

[fringe]

that 4th down penalty was a false start. A false start happens before the play begins, and therefore cannot be declined.

oh ok- so why did the zebras not blow the play dead? (all i get is picture, no sound)

[Nesta]

oh ok- so why did the zebras not blow the play dead? (all i get is picture, no sound)

 

Because they wanted to see if detroit got the first down first, at which point they would've declined to call the false start. Because they hate us.

[Nesta]

I don't see a previous post with an answer to the Tynes ? boo.

[Treehugger]

Because they wanted to see if detroit got the first down first, at which point they would've declined to call the false start. Because they hate us.

Now THAT makes sense.

[boohyah]

I don't see a previous post with an answer to the Tynes ? boo.

 

 

I have indicated that I've had very little time for Tynes. So yes, I was joking.

[Treehugger]

The "in the grasp" rule was designed to protect the QB. Tuck had tackled him and was taking him to the ground and Kitna bailed himself out by trying to throw the ball, which he didn't it fell forward out of his hands. The minute Tuck had his arms wrapped around him the play is supposed to be blown dead. Refs bailed Kitna out on that one.

Blown dead, but still a sack, yeah?

 

Protection of Passer

1. By interpretation, a pass begins when the passer -- with possession of ball -- starts to bring his hand forward. If ball strikes ground after this action has begun, play is ruled an incomplete pass. If passer loses control of ball prior to his bringing his hand forward, play is ruled a fumble.

 

2. When a passer is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional movement forward of his arm starts a forward pass. If a defensive player contacts the passer or the ball after forward movement begins, and the ball leaves the passer’s hand, a forward pass is ruled, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player.

 

3. No defensive player may run into a passer of a legal forward pass after the ball has left his hand (15 yards). The Referee must determine whether opponent had a reasonable chance to stop his momentum during an attempt to block the pass or tackle the passer while he still had the ball.

 

4. No defensive player who has an unrestricted path to the quarterback may hit him flagrantly in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction.

 

5. Officials are to blow the play dead as soon as the quarterback is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler, and his safety is in jeopardy.

[Nesta]

I have indicated that I've had very little time for Tynes. So yes, I was joking.

Just a matter of time til he costs us a game.

[echochamber]

2a) What constitutes a forward pass?

 

2b) What constitutes a fumble?

 

2c) What constitutes intentional grounding?

 

I believe this needs to be addressed by the league. If it were up to me, I would make ANY pass by the QB that does not make it past the los a fumble. in addition, any pass that goes out of bounds before it reaches the los will be marked where it went out. This would negate is it or is it not a fumble/intentional grounding and leaves no grey area whatsoever.

[fringe]

Blown dead, but still a sack, yeah?

 

Protection of Passer

1. By interpretation, a pass begins when the passer -- with possession of ball -- starts to bring his hand forward. If ball strikes ground after this action has begun, play is ruled an incomplete pass. If passer loses control of ball prior to his bringing his hand forward, play is ruled a fumble.

 

2. When a passer is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional movement forward of his arm starts a forward pass. If a defensive player contacts the passer or the ball after forward movement begins, and the ball leaves the passer’s hand, a forward pass is ruled, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player.

 

3. No defensive player may run into a passer of a legal forward pass after the ball has left his hand (15 yards). The Referee must determine whether opponent had a reasonable chance to stop his momentum during an attempt to block the pass or tackle the passer while he still had the ball.

 

4. No defensive player who has an unrestricted path to the quarterback may hit him flagrantly in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction.

 

5. Officials are to blow the play dead as soon as the quarterback is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler, and his safety is in jeopardy.

tuck couldn't win yesterday.- lost that ruling than got hit by the roughing penalty ( Carson Palmer rule)

[fringe]

d'oh

[Dragon]

tuck couldn't win yesterday.- lost that ruling than got hit by the roughing penalty ( Carson Palmer rule)

I swear... how the hell was he supposed to pull up when he was diving towards Kitna before he threw the ball?

[Virginia Giant]

That was a well thought out, accurate and intelligent game summary.

[Treehugger]

I believe this needs to be addressed by the league. If it were up to me, I would make ANY pass by the QB that does not make it past the los a fumble. in addition, any pass that goes out of bounds before it reaches the los will be marked where it went out. This would negate is it or is it not a fumble/intentional grounding and leaves no grey area whatsoever.

I don't know about a fumble, but I wouldn't allow them to throw it away, even if it's past the LOS. In that case it should be the next down from the spot of the throw. When the QB take the ball away from the LOS to give himself more time to throw, he shouldn't automatically get it back from the same point when the play fucks up. An RB doesn't get the same advantage.

 

That might be a bit harsh, but I think anything that's not a legitimate attempt to complete a pass should be intentional grounding. Defenses get a raw deal.

[fringe]

I swear... how the hell was he supposed to pull up when he was diving towards Kitna before he threw the ball?

that's just it- the carson palmer call- you're not supposed to dive at a QB's knees.

[echochamber]

I don't know about a fumble, but I wouldn't allow them to throw it away, even if it's past the LOS. In that case it should be the next down from the spot of the throw. When the QB take the ball away from the LOS to give himself more time to throw, he shouldn't automatically get it back from the same point when the play fucks up. An RB doesn't get the same advantage.

 

That might be a bit harsh, but I think anything that's not a legitimate attempt to complete a pass should be intentional grounding. Defenses get a raw deal.

 

I would endorse that. That's defnitely a more realistic option as well. The D definitely gets the short end. The league wants scoring, hence the bogus, impossible to interpret rules protecting the qb. I miss the days when Montana, Bradshaw, Simms & the rest had to have a set to play qb.