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Loyalty


ksm7
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The Italian Hotdog is entertained and sad all in one...many fans here attacking strahan for holding out, and having frieghtening, angry, bitter responses...suddenly the fact that he did all he did for the Giants for 15 years is out the proverbial window...happened to barber...happened to him...oh well, there appears to be no loyalty and little respect in, what did bigblue call it earlier, his "Little Giant Land..."

 

On a side note, why is everyone acting so surprised that strahan is holding out? have you not learned by now that this is, and always will be about money for these people? The Dog finds this part entertaining...everyone taking it personally, and forgetting the fact that after teams lose games, and even Super Bowls, there is always the shot that shows the losing teams players laughing with others...why? money, that's why...the Italian Hotdog finds you all interesting! Fun! Fun! Funzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........

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What does it say about Tiki and Michaels 'Loyalty' when they up and quit or "retire/holdout" when they have time still left on their proverbial deals?

 

I say those guys were never as 'loyal' to the team as we thought they were. So what is the point of this post? Fans loyalty to Stray/Tiki? Or their loyalty to the Giants?

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I guess you wouldn't understand because Andy doesn't let vets retire with the team, but Strahan wanted that contract so he could retire with the team, and not be cut. That's why the last two years were lower than the rest. Now, because wifey had a good lawyer, he wants more. And let's not kid ourselves, you don't ask for a raise, not get it, and suddenly "debate retiring" without it being about money.

 

I'll add that not a soul has trashed his on-field performance. The player still has the loyalty, but the man is losing it quickly...

 

As far as what he's given for the last 15 years--who's being naive here? There's plenty of reasons besides "bleeding blue" to play hard:

  1. you want the ring;
  2. you want the bust in Canton;
  3. you want the contract your performance demands
Even with that in mind, if he was still reliable health-wise, i could see adding an incentive-based bonus. But he's not--for the amount of games he'll actually play in, he's probably overpaid where he is.
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I guess you wouldn't understand because Andy doesn't let vets retire with the team, but Strahan wanted that contract so he could retire with the team, and not be cut. That's why the last two years were lower than the rest. Now, because wifey had a good lawyer, he wants more. And let's not kid ourselves, you don't ask for a raise, not get it, and suddenly "debate retiring" without it being about money.

 

I'll add that not a soul has trashed his on-field performance. The player still has the loyalty, but the man is losing it quickly...

 

As far as what he's given for the last 15 years--who's being naive here? There's plenty of reasons besides "bleeding blue" to play hard:

  1. you want the ring;
  2. you want the bust in Canton;
  3. you want the contract your performance demands
Even with that in mind, if he was still reliable health-wise, i could see adding an incentive-based bonus. But he's not--for the amount of games he'll actually play in, he's probably overpaid where he is.
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He is lucky the team isn't asking him to take a pay cut.

 

Fans will be loyal to their teams players to a certain point. But pulling this retirement crap...not holdout holdouts can and almost always end with the player getting into camp and sticking with the team....the retirement crap is out of the blue and comes at a HORRIBLE time. As far as I can tell the only reason why someone would do what Strahan did with that retirement crap is to try and blackmail a team into paying you to stick around. Well Reese did not blink, he said that the team is ready to move on without him if need be.

 

To sum up on the loyalty question, I can't be loyal to a player who pulls such a douchebag move as Strahan did.

 

I think the ball is in Strahans court right now and he really only has two options left, show up to camp and get paid what you agreed to, or retire.

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Fans loyalty to Stray/Tiki? Or their loyalty to the Giants?

 

Exactly. I'm loyal to the New York Giants, not Michael Strahan. Strahan had a song and dance about his contract a few years ago (that Tiki and Keith Hamilton had to throw in their two cents about, let's not forget), got his way, and enjoyed playing under his contract. Now two young guys who play the same position as him get better deals than his original one, and he wants more money. Too bad, the world's not fair, and it's time to pay the piper.

 

Let's not even mention that here in "real person land" none of us will see 4 million dollars in our lifetimes, let alone be paid that exorbitant amount to play a game you're supposed to like playing for what will likely be a 16-week season.

 

Gary Meyers said Strahan should retire today, and after reading his article, I can't say I disagree with him. If you "have to think about whether or not you want to play the game anymore," the answer is that you probably don't... you just like the money. And even if he comes back at this point, who wants to hear about this crap all year? The players? The fans?

 

Strahan has had some unbelievably great moments with the Giants... his TD return off a deflection against the Eagles Mc Nabb's rookie year, the sacks of Warner, etc... and who can forget the Brett Favre sack? On the other hand, where the hell was he when Jeff Garcia was tossing pass after pass for the Niners in the playoffs a few years back? Where was he the second half of two of the last three years? You've always had to take the good with the bad with this guy... but this year, I have a funny feeling we'd get "Bad Guy Strahan" instead of a guy who'll bring the locker room together and fight his butt off.

 

I was sad when Taylor retired, I was sad when we cut Phil Simms... and I'll be sad to see Strahan go, if he goes... but I would not give that guy one more cent then what he's scheduled to make this year.

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Exactly. I'm loyal to the New York Giants, not Michael Strahan. Strahan had a song and dance about his contract a few years ago (that Tiki and Keith Hamilton had to throw in their two cents about, let's not forget), got his way, and enjoyed playing under his contract. Now two young guys who play the same position as him get better deals than his original one, and he wants more money. Too bad, the world's not fair, and it's time to pay the piper.

 

Let's not even mention that here in "real person land" none of us will see 4 million dollars in our lifetimes, let alone be paid that exorbitant amount to play a game you're supposed to like playing for what will likely be a 16-week season.

 

Gary Meyers said Strahan should retire today, and after reading his article, I can't say I disagree with him. If you "have to think about whether or not you want to play the game anymore," the answer is that you probably don't... you just like the money. And even if he comes back at this point, who wants to hear about this crap all year? The players? The fans?

 

Strahan has had some unbelievably great moments with the Giants... his TD return off a deflection against the Eagles Mc Nabb's rookie year, the sacks of Warner, etc... and who can forget the Brett Favre sack? On the other hand, where the hell was he when Jeff Garcia was tossing pass after pass for the Niners in the playoffs a few years back? Where was he the second half of two of the last three years? You've always had to take the good with the bad with this guy... but this year, I have a funny feeling we'd get "Bad Guy Strahan" instead of a guy who'll bring the locker room together and fight his butt off.

 

I was sad when Taylor retired, I was sad when we cut Phil Simms... and I'll be sad to see Strahan go, if he goes... but I would not give that guy one more cent then what he's scheduled to make this year.

Excellent post. Well put! :clap:

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Exactly. I'm loyal to the New York Giants, not Michael Strahan. Strahan had a song and dance about his contract a few years ago (that Tiki and Keith Hamilton had to throw in their two cents about, let's not forget), got his way, and enjoyed playing under his contract. Now two young guys who play the same position as him get better deals than his original one, and he wants more money. Too bad, the world's not fair, and it's time to pay the piper.

 

Let's not even mention that here in "real person land" none of us will see 4 million dollars in our lifetimes, let alone be paid that exorbitant amount to play a game you're supposed to like playing for what will likely be a 16-week season.

 

Gary Meyers said Strahan should retire today, and after reading his article, I can't say I disagree with him. If you "have to think about whether or not you want to play the game anymore," the answer is that you probably don't... you just like the money. And even if he comes back at this point, who wants to hear about this crap all year? The players? The fans?

 

Strahan has had some unbelievably great moments with the Giants... his TD return off a deflection against the Eagles Mc Nabb's rookie year, the sacks of Warner, etc... and who can forget the Brett Favre sack? On the other hand, where the hell was he when Jeff Garcia was tossing pass after pass for the Niners in the playoffs a few years back? Where was he the second half of two of the last three years? You've always had to take the good with the bad with this guy... but this year, I have a funny feeling we'd get "Bad Guy Strahan" instead of a guy who'll bring the locker room together and fight his butt off.

 

I was sad when Taylor retired, I was sad when we cut Phil Simms... and I'll be sad to see Strahan go, if he goes... but I would not give that guy one more cent then what he's scheduled to make this year.

 

Agreed, awesome post.

 

I am first and foremost loyal to the Giants, but will never forget what these players did for us, and thier tenure on the team. But in the end, its all about the org.

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Strahan made his deal and should live with it now. They front loaded his last contract so that we could have some cap room now. The plan is working and big ol Michael Strahan wants to get another payday? HEY MIKE, your old and injury plagued we are not going to give you MORE money.

 

I hope he comes back an can stay healthy for the entire season, but if he doesnt the Gmen need to be ready. The best thing he could do for the team is make a decision immediately.

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looking mighty strong on that high horse Dog, must make you feel all prideful and good inside to preach to us about loyalty yet keep the name of your own team private. You assume Giants fans are turning on Mike because he's holding out, we must not understand buisness or something, right? The hold out is irrelevant, if it were a hold out i think most people would eventually be saying things to the effect like ...."Well at least he'll be fresher during the season". Giants fans have the ability to put a positive light on nearly all childish acts from their players, we have a ton a practice doing that with the cast of characters we have/had, but at the end of the day even though we love our guys and always will, we are ultimately a fan of the team and dislike it when a player (even one as great as Strahan) attempts to hold the team hostage.

 

 

If thats being disloyal, so be it, but when all is said and done it looks like we'll be more loyal to the TEAM than Mr. Strahan.

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People here are loyal, some of the most loyal fans of all their teams I have come across. What they are loyal to is the New York Giants. We are loyal to the logo, the franchise the tradition. I look at it this way, if Strahan wants to leave and retire, so be it. He is not getting any younger and really he is only hurting himself by walking away from 8 mil left on a contract that when it expires in 2009 will have paid him 46.5 mil dollars. He got his oney front loaded like he wanted in 02, for fear of being retired or released in the last few years of it. That never happened, he was not asked to take a pay cut(despite being healthy only 1 of the last 3 years)and he was never in danger of losing a roster spot. Here is a man that has to pay his ex wife 15 mil, the Giants are basically allowing him to earn half that in 2 years, kind of like being on scholarship. You want to talk about loyalty? Look no further than Michael himself.

 

Giant fans have always been loyal to Mike. We cheered him when he set the *sack record ;) and we supported him in 2002 when his former teammate who has also since retired called him out in the media for wanting too much money and sayin that he (ironically) was causing "distractions" to the team(god that seems to comical now).

 

Please do not lecture the Giant fan on this site about loyalty. I think people here are probably too loyal. Just ask my wife when on Wednesday I am still in a bad mood from what happened on Sunday.

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Oh my...it appears that the Italian Hotdog has struck a nerve...for the record, the Dog has decided to start an internet course, Intro to Loyalty 101, and encourages many of you to participate. In the meantime, the Dog will try and address each of you in order:

 

Treehugger: it is not about loyalty, and that is the point. Players to coaches, to teams...to players it is about money...always. to fans, it is always about what have you done for me lately...always.

 

randoff: see above...

 

fish: the Dog only has to ask you who Andy is?? and also, if the Dog can find the article he will, but retirement talk from strahan is not "out of the blue"...he has had this conversation every year for the lst three, and back in early June, he discussed how he was thinking about it, always does in the offseason, and often does right up until the last minute...when you play this long, the Dog guesses you start to have that internal struggle as to whether or not it is worth it - very easy for everyone to judge someone struggling with that, yet very few of you are in a job that requires the physical pain that this does, and if you were, you would probably struggle with this decision up until the last minute as well (the aforementioned article by the way, was focusing on Strahan discussing the teams chances to win it all, and the pressure he was plaing on Manning to finally step up...interesting indeed...

 

Sephiroth and Court Jester: yes, yes, yes...everyone is loyal to the organization and the Giants as fans...so doesn't it stand to reason that you as fans would then prefer that the organization pay the man who can still contribute, be a locker room presence on a team that desperately needs one, and not be a distraction so that the team can focus on winning...? many of you are yankee fans, and have no issues with Steinbrenner shelling out money to whomever he thinks will buy him a championship, yet now it is an issue? if you are fan of a team, you want your owner to spare no expense in doing all of the above, because to you, it is about winning championships...

 

and for the record, if any of you had a job that you w\could hold out on to make more money and negotiate a big contract, you would....and if you say you wouldn't, that perhaps you should sign up for the Dog's second class "the importance of being truthful 101"

 

JayD - get over the fact that the Dog is not interested in disclosing this informtaion...the Dog is loyal to his team and so chooses not to listen to everyone here splash lame, meaningless insults at their expense instead of discussing the team that they are such loyal fans of themselves...

 

Virginia Giant - the Dog is quite content high up on his horse...the view is breathtaking...

 

xxi - two questions for you: first, why the large homage to artie lang? two, the Dog admits to being slightly disturbed by the fact that you struggle until Wednesday of the week following a football teams loss...perhaps the Dog could suggest some additional outlets to promote joy in some way?

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Oh my...it appears that the Italian Hotdog has struck a nerve...for the record, the Dog has decided to start an internet course, Intro to Loyalty 101, and encourages many of you to participate. In the meantime, the Dog will try and address each of you in order:

 

Treehugger: it is not about loyalty, and that is the point. Players to coaches, to teams...to players it is about money...always. to fans, it is always about what have you done for me lately...always.

 

randoff: see above...

 

fish: the Dog only has to ask you who Andy is?? and also, if the Dog can find the article he will, but retirement talk from strahan is not "out of the blue"...he has had this conversation every year for the lst three, and back in early June, he discussed how he was thinking about it, always does in the offseason, and often does right up until the last minute...when you play this long, the Dog guesses you start to have that internal struggle as to whether or not it is worth it - very easy for everyone to judge someone struggling with that, yet very few of you are in a job that requires the physical pain that this does, and if you were, you would probably struggle with this decision up until the last minute as well (the aforementioned article by the way, was focusing on Strahan discussing the teams chances to win it all, and the pressure he was plaing on Manning to finally step up...interesting indeed...

 

Sephiroth and Court Jester: yes, yes, yes...everyone is loyal to the organization and the Giants as fans...so doesn't it stand to reason that you as fans would then prefer that the organization pay the man who can still contribute, be a locker room presence on a team that desperately needs one, and not be a distraction so that the team can focus on winning...? many of you are yankee fans, and have no issues with Steinbrenner shelling out money to whomever he thinks will buy him a championship, yet now it is an issue? if you are fan of a team, you want your owner to spare no expense in doing all of the above, because to you, it is about winning championships...

 

and for the record, if any of you had a job that you w\could hold out on to make more money and negotiate a big contract, you would....and if you say you wouldn't, that perhaps you should sign up for the Dog's second class "the importance of being truthful 101"

 

JayD - get over the fact that the Dog is not interested in disclosing this informtaion...the Dog is loyal to his team and so chooses not to listen to everyone here splash lame, meaningless insults at their expense instead of discussing the team that they are such loyal fans of themselves...

 

Virginia Giant - the Dog is quite content high up on his horse...the view is breathtaking...

 

xxi - two questions for you: first, why the large homage to artie lang? two, the Dog admits to being slightly disturbed by the fact that you struggle until Wednesday of the week following a football teams loss...perhaps the Dog could suggest some additional outlets to promote joy in some way?

 

Artie is the man, and will be removed from my sig when football begins. As for being upset about a game, it is what it is as they say. Does it bother me when my team loses, particularly a tough game? Yes. Does it effect my life? No not at all. I was merely trying to stress the point that you have come to the wrong place to question loyalty.

 

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Oh my...it appears that the Italian Hotdog has struck a nerve...for the record, the Dog has decided to start an internet course, Intro to Loyalty 101, and encourages many of you to participate. In the meantime, the Dog will try and address each of you in order:

 

(The class starts out by getting everyone to learn to keep secrets)

 

 

Treehugger: it is not about loyalty, and that is the point. Players to coaches, to teams...to players it is about money...always. to fans, it is always about what have you done for me lately...always.

 

randoff: see above...

 

fish: the Dog only has to ask you who Andy is?? and also, if the Dog can find the article he will, but retirement talk from strahan is not "out of the blue"...he has had this conversation every year for the lst three, and back in early June, he discussed how he was thinking about it, always does in the offseason, and often does right up until the last minute...when you play this long, the Dog guesses you start to have that internal struggle as to (whether or not it is worth it - very easy for everyone to judge someone struggling with that, yet very few of you are in a job that requires the physical pain that this does, and if you were, you would probably struggle with this decision up until the last minute as well (the aforementioned article by the way, was focusing on Strahan discussing the teams chances to win it all, and the pressure he was plaing on Manning to finally step up...interesting indeed...

 

 

(and very few of us are set to make $ 8 million dollars over the next couple years and none of us would be bitching or demanding a raise or threatening to quit if we were)

 

Sephiroth and Court Jester: yes, yes, yes...everyone is loyal to the organization and the Giants as fans...so doesn't it stand to reason that you as fans would then prefer that the organization pay the man who can still contribute, be a locker room presence on a team that desperately needs one, and not be a distraction so that the team can focus on winning...? many of you are yankee fans, and have no issues with Steinbrenner shelling out money to whomever he thinks will buy him a championship, yet now it is an issue? if you are fan of a team, you want your owner to spare no expense in doing all of the above, because to you, it is about winning championships...

 

 

(That little thing called the salary cap in football changes the outlook on the two sports.)

 

 

 

and for the record, if any of you had a job that you w\could hold out on to make more money and negotiate a big contract, you would....and if you say you wouldn't, that perhaps you should sign up for the Dog's second class "the importance of being truthful 101"

 

 

(You have no ground to stand on with that statement, to some, integrity is more important than money. )

 

 

JayD - get over the fact that the Dog is not interested in disclosing this informtaion...the Dog is loyal to his team and so chooses not to listen to everyone here splash lame, meaningless insults at their expense instead of discussing the team that they are such loyal fans of themselves...

 

 

(I guess thats fair, for you to judge us by calling us disloyal and not good enough fans yet keep your team to yourself cause your afraid to be picked on. Thats cowardice, not loyalty)

 

 

 

Virginia Giant - the Dog is quite content high up on his horse...the view is breathtaking...

 

 

(I'm sure it is, and thanks for addressing anything i wrote)

 

xxi - two questions for you: first, why the large homage to artie lang? two, the Dog admits to being slightly disturbed by the fact that you struggle until Wednesday of the week following a football teams loss...perhaps the Dog could suggest some additional outlets to promote joy in some way?

 

 

 

 

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fish: the Dog only has to ask you who Andy is?? and also, if the Dog can find the article he will, but retirement talk from strahan is not "out of the blue"...he has had this conversation every year for the lst three, and back in early June, he discussed how he was thinking about it, always does in the offseason, and often does right up until the last minute...when you play this long, the Dog guesses you start to have that internal struggle as to whether or not it is worth it - very easy for everyone to judge someone struggling with that, yet very few of you are in a job that requires the physical pain that this does, and if you were, you would probably struggle with this decision up until the last minute as well (the aforementioned article by the way, was focusing on Strahan discussing the teams chances to win it all, and the pressure he was plaing on Manning to finally step up...interesting indeed...

LOL, Ok Dog, I'll play it your way: Andy Reid.

 

Strahan has mentioned retirement every year for a bunch of years now--that's true. He's also mentioned THIS OFFSEASON that he's ready to play--right up to a couple weeks before training camp. So, what changed in two weeks? And why was Agnone shopping him around, without the consent/knowledge of the team, and flying in the face of NFL rules?

 

It's true that happens, but it doesn't happen often when a player has 2 YEARS left on a contract. I'm sorry, but I simply don't buy this as soul searching, but I do see it as money searching. But as a fan I'm supposed to say that he's played 14 years for the same team, and therefore it's fine that he's flaunting the rules of the NFL and causing disruption for my favorite team, again?

 

Sorry, I'm not buying this.

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Oh my...it appears that the Italian Hotdog has struck a nerve...for the record, the Dog has decided to start an internet course, Intro to Loyalty 101, and encourages many of you to participate. In the meantime, the Dog will try and address each of you in order:

 

Sephiroth and Court Jester: yes, yes, yes...everyone is loyal to the organization and the Giants as fans...so doesn't it stand to reason that you as fans would then prefer that the organization pay the man who can still contribute, be a locker room presence on a team that desperately needs one, and not be a distraction so that the team can focus on winning...? many of you are yankee fans, and have no issues with Steinbrenner shelling out money to whomever he thinks will buy him a championship, yet now it is an issue? if you are fan of a team, you want your owner to spare no expense in doing all of the above, because to you, it is about winning championships...

 

Yes I would love the org. to pay such a storied and careerlong Giant who was clearly the team leader. The Giants did. In the form of a five year contract that he agreed to 3 years ago. None of the Yanks that got paid disputed the contract a couple of years after signing it, and then contemplated retirement when things went awry so they could avoid looking like selfish assholes. Thats what we're talking about. Youre barking down the wrong path.

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Treehugger: it is not about loyalty, and that is the point. Players to coaches, to teams...to players it is about money...always. to fans, it is always about what have you done for me lately...always.

 

Try reading your own post again.

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