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#26 Herc

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 11:39 AM

And the more I saw Haskins on camera the more I didnt want him.

#27 BlueInCanada

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:45 PM

Yeah but then you should pick one of the three better QBs then right?


And I'm sure the Giants felt like they did.

Who are we to day which QB would be the best for the team?

#28 Pdouble

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:54 PM

1ST ROUND TAKEAWAYS
1) @jets got best player in draft at No. 3 with Q. Williams
2) Raiders got the two most physical tone-setters on each side of the ball (RB Jacobs and SS Abram) in the draft
3) Majority of teams I spoke with had Jones rated higher than Haskins


https://twitter.com/...1019884545?s=21

#29 Pdouble

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:57 PM

Whats your conclusion?



I concluded Im a librarian not an nfl scout hahah. He looks good to me.

#30 CrazedDogs

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:58 PM

And the more I saw Haskins on camera the more I didnt want him.

 

agreed.

 

every time we've seen Haskins since the draft season kicked off he's been fatter. He was obviously in very poor cardiovascular health at his Pro Day. 

 

I was all about Haskins, but the more I watched, and the more kind of personal, family stuff that came out - his dad is some kind of super control freak, snake oil salesman kind of guy - its kind of worrisome. The guy it reminds me of is the Robo QB, Todd Marinovich.



#31 Pdouble

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:04 PM

Haskins also charged people 50 dollars a head to be at his draft party.

#32 Nas

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:11 PM


I concluded Im a librarian not an nfl scout hahah. He looks good to me.


lol I think we may be giving scouts too much credit... its not a science.... the numbers for Jones say hes mediocre.... could be an Alex Smith at best or a Dave Brown.

#33 CrazedDogs

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:12 PM

Haskins also charged people 50 dollars a head to be at his draft party.

 

sounds like the kind of guys that would hit it off with Dan Snyder. 



#34 BlueInCanada

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:25 PM

lol I think we may be giving scouts too much credit... its not a science.... the numbers for Jones say hes mediocre.... could be an Alex Smith at best or a Dave Brown.


Oh OK so the scouts have it all wrong, Nas looked at his numbers and he's to mediocre lol

Even though he basically matched guys like Matt Ryan and exceed guys like Tim Brady stat wise lol

But yeah all a numbers game.

#35 Herc

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:26 PM

Haskins also charged people 50 dollars a head to be at his draft party.


Lol wow

#36 CrazedDogs

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:35 PM

Oh OK so the scouts have it all wrong, Nas looked at his numbers and he's to mediocre lol

Even though he basically matched guys like Matt Ryan and exceed guys like Tim Brady stat wise lol

But yeah all a numbers game.

 

no, his stats were way WORSE than Tom Brady's college stats. And that isn't even taking into consideration that its been 20 years and this is a far more prolific offensive era. 

 

6.2 Air Yards/Attempt.... vs., 7.2 for Brady. Its not even close.

 

Daniel Jones will be a hell of a case study in scouting vs. statistics. If he's a successful NFL QB, he will be the first NFL QB to improve his per play (yards/attempt, for ex.) statistics over college. 



#37 BlueInCanada

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:46 PM

no, his stats were way WORSE than Tom Brady's college stats. And that isn't even taking into consideration that its been 20 years and this is a far more prolific offensive era. 
 
6.2 Air Yards/Attempt.... vs., 7.2 for Brady. Its not even close.
 
Daniel Jones will be a hell of a case study in scouting vs. statistics. If he's a successful NFL QB, he will be the first NFL QB to improve his per play (yards/attempt, for ex.) statistics over college.


More yard in his college career, similar QBR better TD/INT ratio and Jones is playing at Duke not Michigan lol

and what the he'll are you talking about the first QB to improve their stats? Lol most QBs improve from their college stats if they are successful in the NFL.

#38 CrazedDogs

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 02:39 PM

More yard in his college career, similar QBR better TD/INT ratio and Jones is playing at Duke not Michigan lol

and what the he'll are you talking about the first QB to improve their stats? Lol most QBs improve from their college stats if they are successful in the NFL.

 

 

Worse completion %, worse QB rating (I hate that stat, but still), same TD/INT ratio (almost 1.8)…. and the most predictive stat of the bunch, yards per attempt... is not even close.

 

Okay, Duke vs, Michigan, you have me there.... but its been two decades. Offensive numbers are so inflated now compared to then, so I suspect its about a wash on quality of program vs. era.

 

Here's a good breakdown on what I'm talking about on college stats as the ceiling for professional production. They're using some FootballOutsiders metrics, but it also holds pretty true with yards per attempt (which is basically the metric they're using, adjusted for situation):

 

https://www.sbnation...rojections-hype

 

….the point is that a guy who doesn't produce in college, doesn't step onto a professional team and suddenly become somebody else. 

 

I'm trying to be optimistic, but I'm not getting that feeling by looking at stats. 



#39 Sephiroth

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 02:56 PM

 

 

Worse completion %, worse QB rating (I hate that stat, but still), same TD/INT ratio (almost 1.8)…. and the most predictive stat of the bunch, yards per attempt... is not even close.

 

Okay, Duke vs, Michigan, you have me there.... but its been two decades. Offensive numbers are so inflated now compared to then, so I suspect its about a wash on quality of program vs. era.

 

Here's a good breakdown on what I'm talking about on college stats as the ceiling for professional production. They're using some FootballOutsiders metrics, but it also holds pretty true with yards per attempt (which is basically the metric they're using, adjusted for situation):

 

https://www.sbnation...rojections-hype

 

….the point is that a guy who doesn't produce in college, doesn't step onto a professional team and suddenly become somebody else. 

 

I'm trying to be optimistic, but I'm not getting that feeling by looking at stats. 

 

I think you meant to post this article (I read it a few weeks ago too) but yeah, it's bad.  



#40 CrazedDogs

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 03:14 PM

 
I think you meant to post this article (I read it a few weeks ago too) but yeah, it's bad.  


Lol, thanks, but no, I didn't know they did one for the 2019 class...

#41 CrazedDogs

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 03:38 PM

 

I think you meant to post this article (I read it a few weeks ago too) but yeah, it's bad.  

 

oh my. That isn't good. That isn't good at all. 



#42 Sephiroth

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 03:47 PM

 

oh my. That isn't good. That isn't good at all. 

 

 

Like I've been saying... by almost any metric, it's bad. 



#43 BlueInCanada

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 04:50 PM

Did you even read the article you posted, other than saying that you can't judge a QB based on college production because the variance in talent is to high, but ultimately it's almost impossible to tell of any QB is going to be good at the next level, just that if the don't produce they have a slightly less ofa change denveloping.

oh and we saved ourself a bullet by not going after Rosen lol

#44 CrazedDogs

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 09:50 PM

Did you even read the article you posted, other than saying that you can't judge a QB based on college production because the variance in talent is to high, but ultimately it's almost impossible to tell of any QB is going to be good at the next level, just that if the don't produce they have a slightly less ofa change denveloping.

oh and we saved ourself a bullet by not going after Rosen lol


I did, twice now, lol

The conclusion of the article was that we can tell how good a QB could be, at his ceiling. 6.2 ypa is good for worst in the NFL. If that is his ceiling, holy fuck to end all fucks, this is going to suck.

I'm rooting for him now. And like I said, this is scouting vs. statistics... it will be interesting to see if Gettlemans eye for the game can beat Vegas.

#45 Drizzle

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 10:40 PM

Personally, it seems to me that the type of passer throwing 6.2 air yards is the current trend in the NFL. Outside of the Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Ben, and Rivers, there are a lot of teams employing a guy who gets the ball in the receivers hands faster. Tate and Shepard are those types of receivers, YAC guys. Going by my theory, Im wondering if the trend, personnel, and current offensive scheme dictated the Jones pick. I think even Eli has to play quick release, get the ball to the receiver to be successful right now because he has no touch anymore. Am I misunderstanding your statistics CD?

#46 fringe

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 03:16 AM

Personally, it seems to me that the type of passer throwing 6.2 air yards is the current trend in the NFL. Outside of the Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Ben, and Rivers, there are a lot of teams employing a guy who gets the ball in the receivers hands faster. Tate and Shepard are those types of receivers, YAC guys. Going by my theory, Im wondering if the trend, personnel, and current offensive scheme dictated the Jones pick. I think even Eli has to play quick release, get the ball to the receiver to be successful right now because he has no touch anymore. Am I misunderstanding your statistics CD?

cant a guy who can throw a long ball also throw 6 yards?

#47 Drizzle

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 03:44 AM

cant a guy who can throw a long ball also throw 6 yards?


Im not saying Jones cant make all nfl throws I just dont think hes a deep ball guy. Giants arent a deep ball team right now, though.

#48 Herc

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 04:35 AM

Deep balls are down in the nfl the last few years. Its not as important as it once was.

#49 Tempest

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 12:30 PM

https://247sports.co...34/#131547734_8

 

https://247sports.co...kins-131550285/

 

I found this to be a good read and gave some insight as to why the Giants may have taken Jones at 6 instead of waiting to see if he drops to 17.  So instead of looking at Daniel Jones as a second round QB, to now being a guy who started moving up everyone's draft board in the last few weeks.  Baker Mayfield had that same rise last year as well.

 

Giants managed to draft a QB the fans will be happy to have on the bench for a year.  Don't think we'll be reading articles calling for Daniel Jones to start if the team struggles early.



#50 fringe

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 01:26 PM

Deep balls are down in the nfl the last few years. Its not as important as it once was.

but you know NFL is cyclical and it only takes one coach to see the corners cheating in and exploit that. Then everyone else copies. Well those with a decent QB anyway.




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