mastershake Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Before the new labor deal, years back wasn't there some sort of incentive program where the NFL put aside some money, and paid a small bonus to players making a minimum base salary (eg most rookies) who contributed significantly to a team (eg started x number of games, x number of snaps)? I seem to recall something along those lines. For instance, I seem to recall guys like S Michael Johnson and Ahmad Bradshaw getting like an extra $100k or something at the end of a season, for contributing. Given that RBs have a short shelf life, and given long term/lucrative contracts have dried up, I wonder if the NFL can do something for RBs still on a rookie or minimum base salary contract. For instance, if they start 14 games, play x% snaps, maybe double their base salary in a given year, and pay it out as a bonus? For instance, if Eric Gray starts 14 games, his base is $915k, so he qualifies for another $915k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 I think one of the things that could be done is if a 5th year option is picked up (only for 1st rounders), then no franchise tag possible for next deal. But that might push more RBs out of the first round than there are already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted July 24, 2023 Author Share Posted July 24, 2023 Just now, gmenroc said: I think one of the things that could be done is if a 5th year option is picked up (only for 1st rounders), then no franchise tag possible for next deal. That's a good idea, but I believe a team can only do the 5th year option for 1st round picks (maybe 2nd too? But I'm fairly sure it's only 1st rounders). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, mastershake said: That's a good idea, but I believe a team can only do the 5th year option for 1st round picks (maybe 2nd too? But I'm fairly sure it's only 1st rounders). It's only 1st rounders. It's one of the reasons we see more trades from top 2nd back into late 1st round. Yeah...I would draw line between the end of the 3rd and the start of the compensatory picks. And hell, I wouldn't hate it if they did that with all positions. Could be a subtle step to level playing fields too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 The first thing that needs to be done is the franchise tag needs to be adjusted so that it can only be used on a player once. I know it'll never be done away with entirely, but it's current setup allows for it to be abused. After that, I'd increase the rookie wage scale for RBs. If teams are gonna use them as disposable players then they need to be more immediately financially accommodated since their earning potential is significantly reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Rookie wage scale is a good call. I dunno about the "only 1 time" use of the tag...maybe heighten the increase or maybe something crazy like require the team to pay double the salary of a tagged player to a charity so it costs the team triple the tag but goes to a good cause? Could escalate it too...so 2x on 1st tag, 4x on 2nd tag. So this year fo Saquon...he gets 10 mil, charity gets 20 mil. Gets tagged next year...it's 12 mil for Saquon and 48 mil to charity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 10 hours ago, gmenroc said: Rookie wage scale is a good call. I dunno about the "only 1 time" use of the tag...maybe heighten the increase or maybe something crazy like require the team to pay double the salary of a tagged player to a charity so it costs the team triple the tag but goes to a good cause? Could escalate it too...so 2x on 1st tag, 4x on 2nd tag. So this year fo Saquon...he gets 10 mil, charity gets 20 mil. Gets tagged next year...it's 12 mil for Saquon and 48 mil to charity Possibly but there needs to be some downside to the organizations using the tag to essentially hold on to a RB for 7 years and destroy their earning potential and they're locked into the rookie scale and then prevented from earning anything significant beyond that. I'd say on top of the charity make it take up twice the space on the cap so if Saquon hits his incentives this year, which would raise his tag to $13M next year, and Schoen decides to be a dick and tag him again... $26M against the cap. Think twice about abusing the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 43 minutes ago, Dragon said: Possibly but there needs to be some downside to the organizations using the tag to essentially hold on to a RB for 7 years and destroy their earning potential and they're locked into the rookie scale and then prevented from earning anything significant beyond that. I'd say on top of the charity make it take up twice the space on the cap so if Saquon hits his incentives this year, which would raise his tag to $13M next year, and Schoen decides to be a dick and tag him again... $26M against the cap. Think twice about abusing the system. Or have it take an extra roster spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 Man that tweet that Irsay just put out isnt good news for Taylor, who is arguably the best RB in the NFL. Situation is going to get ugly before it gets better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 Im beating a dead horse but Its hilarious that Cole Kmet is making more than the top 3 free agent RBs from 2023. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Makes you wonder how many kids would want to play the position. I’m also beating a dead horse when I say the market is dead wrong on the value of running backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Nas said: Makes you wonder how many kids would want to play the position. I’m also beating a dead horse when I say the market is dead wrong on the value of running backs. I was having this same convo with someone that made a good point, but idk how far it'd be pushed. RBs are always gonna be available cause those kids that aren't good enough to play WR are gonna get moved. It really fn sucks and honestly needs to be addressed if front office personnel are gonna continue to treat RBs as disposable. If we're specifically talking about 1st rounders, they get a 4 year contract with a team option attached and the team has the ability to tag the rb for 2 additional years. That's 7 years of control over a player that's entering the league at 20 at the earliest. So by the time they FINALLY hit free agency they're right on the cusp of that dreaded RB age and can't even hope to get paid to the level of their importance. That is actively stunting a player's earning capability through abusing a system put in place to protect players. Is it legal? Yes. Is it morally bankrupt? Also yes, and someone with a set of balls needs to be heading up the NFLPA to prevent this nonsense the next time a CBA gets negotiated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 5 hours ago, Dragon said: I was having this same convo with someone that made a good point, but idk how far it'd be pushed. RBs are always gonna be available cause those kids that aren't good enough to play WR are gonna get moved. It really fn sucks and honestly needs to be addressed if front office personnel are gonna continue to treat RBs as disposable. If we're specifically talking about 1st rounders, they get a 4 year contract with a team option attached and the team has the ability to tag the rb for 2 additional years. That's 7 years of control over a player that's entering the league at 20 at the earliest. So by the time they FINALLY hit free agency they're right on the cusp of that dreaded RB age and can't even hope to get paid to the level of their importance. That is actively stunting a player's earning capability through abusing a system put in place to protect players. Is it legal? Yes. Is it morally bankrupt? Also yes, and someone with a set of balls needs to be heading up the NFLPA to prevent this nonsense the next time a CBA gets negotiated. I agree that it needs addressed from a rules/agreement standpoint...not from a break the bank for the RB standpoint. I also think that it shouldn't be position specific. Could be as simple as first rounders only get tagged 1x or 0x if 5th year is picked up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 13 hours ago, Nas said: Makes you wonder how many kids would want to play the position. I’m also beating a dead horse when I say the market is dead wrong on the value of running backs. It's not so much the market as it's the NFL today. QBs are getting paid x2 as much as they were 5 years ago, Carr signed the biggest contract in 2017 at 25 million a year, Herbert is now making north of 57 million a year. Add to that fact that other positions such as OT/WR/DE/DT/DBs are now making what QBs used to make in the 20+ million range, the money a team can spend elsewhere is shrinking. RBs are the ones taking the brunt of it simply because you don't need a premiere RB to win the NFL, you just need serviceable backs who can rotate in as a fresh set of legs. The Eagles and Chiefs got to the SB without a 1000 yard rusher and not a single RB making more than 4 million a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 I don't agree with it, I feel like any player should be paid their worth on the field. But RBs have just gone the way of the FB. You don't need a 15 million RB to win, it helps, but the NFL has shown it isn't needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 And Taylor has requested a trade from the Colts. NFL RBs are getting mad yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_NYG Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 More BS about Colts wanting to put Taylor on the PUP list due to some back pain - to which JT responded saying he never had back pain and never claimed to have it - and wants to be traded after his meeting with Irsay - am even more glad Saquon signed his contract for 1 more year atleast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Iceman_NYG said: More BS about Colts wanting to put Taylor on the PUP list due to some back pain - to which JT responded saying he never had back pain and never claimed to have it - and wants to be traded after his meeting with Irsay - am even more glad Saquon signed his contract for 1 more year atleast PUP list...Taylor gets paid for not playing. They're actually threatening the NFI, non-football injury, list where they don't have to pay him at all. Due to back pain that he supposedly got working out offsite in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 That is low down... PUP all the way if it was me. Cutting down on the number of hits is paramount. It is not like the Colts are getting to the Super Bowl reasonably within the next three to five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 On 7/29/2023 at 11:12 AM, BlueInCanada said: It's not so much the market as it's the NFL today. QBs are getting paid x2 as much as they were 5 years ago, Carr signed the biggest contract in 2017 at 25 million a year, Herbert is now making north of 57 million a year. Add to that fact that other positions such as OT/WR/DE/DT/DBs are now making what QBs used to make in the 20+ million range, the money a team can spend elsewhere is shrinking. RBs are the ones taking the brunt of it simply because you don't need a premiere RB to win the NFL, you just need serviceable backs who can rotate in as a fresh set of legs. The Eagles and Chiefs got to the SB without a 1000 yard rusher and not a single RB making more than 4 million a year. Was in a debate a few weeks ago and someone asked me when the last time a team won the Super Bowl with a RB getting paid more than $3M/year so I looked it up. 2013. Marshawn Lynch was making a little over $3M a year. The time before that... 2011. Us. Both Jacobs and Bradshaw were over $4.5M AAV... Jacobs being over $6M. The thing about this convo is it completely ignores a vital side of the argument. Sure... maybe you don't need an all world RB to win a Super Bowl but you DO need... 2014: the greatest QB of all time... Brady 2015: the 2nd Greatest QB of all time and an all world defense... Peyton and the 2015 Broncos 2016: the greatest QB of all time... Brady 2017: the outlier... who beat the Greatest QB of all Time 2018: the Greatest QB of all time... Brady 2019: Future HOF QB... Mahomes 2020: The Greatest QB of all time... Brady 2021: Future Hof QB and a front office that sacrificed the future for 1 quick run... Stafford 2022: Future HOF QB... Mahomes It's not as simple as they're trying to make it seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 17 hours ago, Dragon said: Was in a debate a few weeks ago and someone asked me when the last time a team won the Super Bowl with a RB getting paid more than $3M/year so I looked it up. 2013. Marshawn Lynch was making a little over $3M a year. The time before that... 2011. Us. Both Jacobs and Bradshaw were over $4.5M AAV... Jacobs being over $6M. The thing about this convo is it completely ignores a vital side of the argument. Sure... maybe you don't need an all world RB to win a Super Bowl but you DO need... 2014: the greatest QB of all time... Brady 2015: the 2nd Greatest QB of all time and an all world defense... Peyton and the 2015 Broncos 2016: the greatest QB of all time... Brady 2017: the outlier... who beat the Greatest QB of all Time 2018: the Greatest QB of all time... Brady 2019: Future HOF QB... Mahomes 2020: The Greatest QB of all time... Brady 2021: Future Hof QB and a front office that sacrificed the future for 1 quick run... Stafford 2022: Future HOF QB... Mahomes It's not as simple as they're trying to make it seem. But that is the whole argument. You don't need a good RB, you need a good QB and good QBs now cost north of 50+ million a year. You don't need to throw 10+ million at a RB anymore, when you can get a stable of two or three who run just as well for the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 6 hours ago, BlueInCanada said: But that is the whole argument. You don't need a good RB, you need a good QB and good QBs now cost north of 50+ million a year. You don't need to throw 10+ million at a RB anymore, when you can get a stable of two or three who run just as well for the same price. That's the argument, but the reality has been you need a HALL OF FAME QB or a top 10 all time defense if you're gonna undervalue the RB position. How many of those are actually available? Since 2013 there have only been 5 QBs to win Super Bowls and excluding the outliers of the 2017 Eagles, all 4 of them are going to Canton. And again... $10M+ is a drop in the bucket with the $300M salary cap there's gonna be in a few years especially if that $10M+ is putting up 1700 scrimmage and 11 TDs. It can be done and with the way gms are able to manipulate the salary cap, there's literally no excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 The NFL is full of trends... they are like 1920s/1930s admirals building super battleships instead of carriers. Always fighting the last war. I bet 5-10 maximum there will be a coach who wins it all with a RB/FB combo and positioning may go full circle. Prior to LT you really did not have stand up OLBs (who could really be DE they were so big) rushing the QB. Then that became the rage in the 80s and early 90s. By the mid 90s and 2000s DTs and DEs became dominant again. We went from 4/3 to 3/4 back to 4/3 and now e have hybrid defenses mostly. It is a cycle and most want to ride with the pack. I think RBs should get paid and the QB position will be an attacked position again. The rules are going to get to be so offense friendly that there will be a rebound and reaction I feel. We loved those 20 point games from the 70s to early 90s, so there is a precedent where people enjoyed those low scoring games. It is the GMs, owners and casual fans who love those high scoring games. Football fans and purists love football in all of its facets. I put myself in that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Would much prefer the 21-13 game over the 35-31 game any day. I also appreciate the toughness over the finesse given the choice. I think though society is too impatient, and too prone to instant gratification for the trend to reverse. Information/news/etc. is 24/7...scoring in a football game is taking the same approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, gmenroc said: Would much prefer the 21-13 game over the 35-31 game any day. I also appreciate the toughness over the finesse given the choice. I think though society is too impatient, and too prone to instant gratification for the trend to reverse. Information/news/etc. is 24/7...scoring in a football game is taking the same approach. yeah I’ll take the 8 point lead over the 4 point lead every time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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