Storm Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Did Thurmond see the field to begin with? Rolle was on the decline and was over priced anyway..... The defense was bad because Fewel sucked donkey balls. Fewel had enough talent to at least not underachieve.. I don't see the talent. Not when they are put side by side to other, confirmed to be talented teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I don't see the talent. Not when they are put side by side to other, confirmed to be talented teams. How do you measure talent? Based on performanace, no? If your DC is fucking clueless, everyone is gonna look like shit... which was our problem. How many DTs out there do you consider to be better than Hankins? How many DEs are better than JPP? Shit Ayers was doing great... and still only saw the field on a few occasions... Fewel should have benched Kiwis and let Ayers play... but no.. he was much a stubborn idiot as his boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I've already found at least 10 defensive ends that I'd prefer to JPP, I've listed some of them on here somewhere. I'd put him at like 12. Yet he is like the 19th highest paid PLAYER in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 There are guys out there who are much more consistent than JPP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Because most of them are going to cost more than that in cap space. People forget about the singing bonus on top of the cap number players will take up their first year. One top of the draft picks you have to sign. The Giant's were never in a good spot cap wise this offseason, I don't see why people think otherwise, unless we start cutting players and be 30 million over the cap next season. At any point in the past year we could've extended Eli, Prince, or JPP to free up more cap space instead of pulling the nonsense we're doing now. Prior to JPP being franchised we had $24m available. Then we cut Walton which freed up $3m more. That's $27m in cap space without the JPP franchise tag. We had plenty of space to at least bring in a guard better than John Fuckin Jerry, or do something more than allowing every potential safety not named Stevie Brown to end up somewhere else. But as it stands right now it seems as though Reese would rather have us go into this season without at least attempting to free up space to make the necessary moves to improve this team. Add to that the fact that Eli and Prince will in all likelihood become free agents next offseason and we have an even larger problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I've already found at least 10 defensive ends that I'd prefer to JPP, I've listed some of them on here somewhere. I'd put him at like 12. Yet he is like the 19th highest paid PLAYER in the league. no, you didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 no, you didn't. At this point I believe its a personal beef. JPP didn't call for christmas or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 At any point in the past year we could've extended Eli, Prince, or JPP to free up more cap space instead of pulling the nonsense we're doing now. Prior to JPP being franchised we had $24m available. Then we cut Walton which freed up $3m more. That's $27m in cap space without the JPP franchise tag. We had plenty of space to at least bring in a guard better than John Fuckin Jerry, or do something more than allowing every potential safety not named Stevie Brown to end up somewhere else. But as it stands right now it seems as though Reese would rather have us go into this season without at least attempting to free up space to make the necessary moves to improve this team. Add to that the fact that Eli and Prince will in all likelihood become free agents next offseason and we have an even larger problem. Its not as bad as it would seem. We only get a glimpse into what is going on over in Rutherford in terms of players the team is interested in and ongoing negotiations. For all we know the Giants could be working on extending Amukamara now. I think its the smart move to let that contract expire on Eli Manning and get a whole new deal in place. It is also smart to tag JPP instead of extending him before this year. Maybe they see what Drizzle sees in him and try to trade him away before the start of the season or maybe they see what 31 other teams see as well. Giants are going to keep making smart moves over big expensive ones whenever possible. Whereas we might not see the immediate impact value of players we recently picked up I believe history is on our side in terms of finding those key players that flew under the radar and turned into guys for us during the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 no, you didn't. I've listed them on this board, it's not going to be my job to find the thread for you. And I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself. He's not the 19 best player in the league, he doesn't even break the top 50. He's certainly not a top 10 end. Top defensive ends don't only show up against shit teams. JPP hasn't made a play since he blocked a field goal to beat dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 At this point I believe its a personal beef. JPP didn't call for christmas or something. Uhh good one. It's objective assessment of my favorite teams players, dude. It beats being a homer. Try it sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I've listed them on this board, it's not going to be my job to find the thread for you. And I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself. He's not the 19 best player in the league, he doesn't even break the top 50. He's certainly not a top 10 end. Top defensive ends don't only show up against shit teams. JPP hasn't made a play since he blocked a field goal to beat dallas. oh, I remember the thread, I reviewed everyone you named, person by person. And I have no idea what made you think most of those folks belonged on the list. There may be four better defensive linemen in the NFL. JPP's statistical impact leaps off the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 At any point in the past year we could've extended Eli, Prince, or JPP to free up more cap space instead of pulling the nonsense we're doing now. Prior to JPP being franchised we had $24m available. Then we cut Walton which freed up $3m more. That's $27m in cap space without the JPP franchise tag. We had plenty of space to at least bring in a guard better than John Fuckin Jerry, or do something more than allowing every potential safety not named Stevie Brown to end up somewhere else. But as it stands right now it seems as though Reese would rather have us go into this season without at least attempting to free up space to make the necessary moves to improve this team. Add to that the fact that Eli and Prince will in all likelihood become free agents next offseason and we have an even larger problem. So we metaphorically had 30 million in cap space going into this year that we could of metaphorically signed a impact player with? If we drafted Patrick Willis and Aldon Smith our LBs wouldn't have been so bad in the past either. It's hindsight, the fact remains after the Giant's franchised JPP (who once again should of just let walk) they were only 16 million above the cap with dead space coming from Baas being added on to this year and draft pick bonuses to keep in mind. Fuck the Giant's could of cut every two years ago and we could be 80 million over the cap, still doesnt help the fact that the Giant's never had any money to spend with their FA plan this off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Uhh good one. It's objective assessment of my favorite teams players, Lebowski. It beats being a homer. Try it sometime. doh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 oh, I remember the thread, I reviewed everyone you named, person by person. And I have no idea what made you think most of those folks belonged on the list. There may be four better defensive linemen in the NFL. JPP's statistical impact leaps off the page. Statistical impact in three meaningless games per year. And it doesn't translate to on field impact, just on paper impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 So we metaphorically had 30 million in cap space going into this year that we could of metaphorically signed a impact player with? If we drafted Patrick Willis and Aldon Smith our LBs wouldn't have been so bad in the past either. It's hindsight, the fact remains after the Giant's franchised JPP (who once again should of just let walk) they were only 16 million above the cap with dead space coming from Baas being added on to this year and draft pick bonuses to keep in mind. Fuck the Giant's could of cut every two years ago and we could be 80 million over the cap, still doesnt help the fact that the Giant's never had any money to spend with their FA plan this off season. Nothing metaphorical about it. We HAD $27m that we SHOULD have been using to fill holes instead of allowing JPP to eat up more than half of it. We now have even larger holes than we began free agency with. No one's looking for Pro Bowlers at every spot, but you can't expect me to believe that we couldn't have at least brought in ONE guard better than John Jerry... or made a stronger push for Moore or Parker at Safety. And I could be slightly off, but I believe we went into last year's draft with around $5m in space to sign draft picks... so we still can't make any moves when we had $8m (which just this morning became $10.1m thanks to Geoff Schwartz)? Bottom line is Reese is a disappointment and it looks like he had no plan for free agency at all. Hindsight or not... doesn't make it any less true. @Tempest... yea it's possible. We just restructured Schwartz this morning and freed up around $2.1m more, but why wait until we're already behind the 8-ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Nothing metaphorical about it. We HAD $27m that we SHOULD have been using to fill holes instead of allowing JPP to eat up more than half of it. We now have even larger holes than we began free agency with. No one's looking for Pro Bowlers at every spot, but you can't expect me to believe that we couldn't have at least brought in ONE guard better than John Jerry... or made a stronger push for Moore or Parker at Safety. And I could be slightly off, but I believe we went into last year's draft with around $5m in space to sign draft picks... so we still can't make any moves when we had $8m (which just this morning became $10.1m thanks to Geoff Schwartz)? Bottom line is Reese is a disappointment and it looks like he had no plan for free agency at all. Hindsight or not... doesn't make it any less true. @Tempest... yea it's possible. We just restructured Schwartz this morning and freed up around $2.1m more, but why wait until we're already behind the 8-ball? But here's the problem... we, fans, don't know how strong the push was to get a safety... I have a hard time believing Reese was asleep at the wheel... I think they made the decision not to let JPP walk (and you can debate that decision... I know I'm in favor)... and some things just didn't work out as planned. I think our team is better simply because the guys who were on IR last year are going to play... and (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) our biggest acquisition this offseason is Spags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 But here's the problem... we, fans, don't know how strong the push was to get a safety... I have a hard time believing Reese was asleep at the wheel... I think they made the decision not to let JPP walk (and you can debate that decision... I know I'm in favor)... and some things just didn't work out as planned. I think our team is better simply because the guys who were on IR last year are going to play... and (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) our biggest acquisition this offseason is Spags. I'm not putting anything past Reese after his "You can't name any of the LBs on our Super Bowl teams" comment he made in a live radio interview back before the 2013 season. That right there told me he's more than willing to sleep behind the wheel. As far as us getting IRed players back... IF they come back at 100% then it's a huge benefit... but it's also a huge IF. Schwartz played all of 2 games last season and didn't play at his natural position, and Cruz... I swear I hope he comes back to his 2011 form, but considering the severity of the injury that's something I sincerely doubt will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Statistical impact in three meaningless games per year. And it doesn't translate to on field impact, just on paper impact. sacks come in bunches. There are great pass rushers who go several games with no sacks, thats just how it is. You can't just be like, 'well, he got all his sacks in three, four, five or whatever games, so they don't count'. Bullshit, of course they count. Better proof is in the tackle figures. Defensive ends just do not get involved with that many plays. You've got JJ Watt and JPP. Thats it. Ten sacks and 75+ tackles?.... holy shit, that isn't just a top ten defensive end, that guy is an All Pro. If done for several seasons, that is a Hall of Famer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I'm not saying they don't count but when you put up numbers against Jacksonville but not Philadelphia, the impact of those numbers is lessened. For how good he is at stopping the run, I don't recall there being big key third down stops in the run that stood out. I recall several times he allowed quarterbacks to get the edge and convert quite a lot though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I'm not saying they don't count but when you put up numbers against Jacksonville but not Philadelphia, the impact of those numbers is lessened. For how good he is at stopping the run, I don't recall there being big key third down stops in the run that stood out. I recall several times he allowed quarterbacks to get the edge and convert quite a lot though.... I'm not saying JPP is a bad player, he's obviously a top 15 DE in the league. However he has the Osi effect, he disappears for four, five game stretches when the team needs him the most to step up and make any sort of impact in a game (like he's now getting paid for) but instead will only show up when the team is done or playing against teams like Jacsonville, Tenseness, and St.Louis. If he can maintain that level of play from week one to week 17 this season like he did in the final five week then great, he'll be on his way to a sack record and earning every dollar of the franchise tag, but the only time he has ever been able to was in his breakout 2011 year. Despite Spags downfalls he's always been able to free up the D-line with bltiz packages and movement, maybe it will work with JPP and Moore. All I'm saying is JPP is now getting paid like he makes a difference in a game, I'd actually like to finally see him make an impact outside of the year 2011. In fact outside of maybe DRC, I'd like to see any Giant player live up to their contract and be an impact player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 I'm not saying JPP is a bad player, he's obviously a top 15 DE in the league. However he has the Osi effect, he disappears for four, five game stretches when the team needs him the most to step up and make any sort of impact in a game (like he's now getting paid for) but instead will only show up when the team is done or playing against teams like Jacsonville, Tenseness, and St.Louis. If he can maintain that level of play from week one to week 17 this season like he did in the final five week then great, he'll be on his way to a sack record and earning every dollar of the franchise tag, but the only time he has ever been able to was in his breakout 2011 year. Even worse, he tries to be a vocal leader by talking smack about the other team (there will be BLOOD!) and then finishes the game with one tackle. That's not just poor performance, that's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I'm not saying they don't count but when you put up numbers against Jacksonville but not Philadelphia, the impact of those numbers is lessened. For how good he is at stopping the run, I don't recall there being big key third down stops in the run that stood out. I recall several times he allowed quarterbacks to get the edge and convert quite a lot though.... well, maybe you've convinced me. To just boil this down, you're saying that its an indictment of his skills that he gets sacks against lesser competition, but not against divisional opponents when it matters most? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 well, maybe you've convinced me. To just boil this down, you're saying that its an indictment of his skills that he gets sacks against lesser competition, but not against divisional opponents when it matters most? Isnt this everyone's case against JJ Watt on here? He gets to play against weak teams which pad his stats, he's not really as good as people make him out to be. Don't see why JPP cant be compared to the same standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I don't know, only game I've recently seen of JJ Watt was when he disappeared against the Giants last season. So much for padding his stats against weak teams, as much as it pains me to admit it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 well, maybe you've convinced me. To just boil this down, you're saying that its an indictment of his skills that he gets sacks against lesser competition, but not against divisional opponents when it matters most? Sure he possesses the skills and can put up statistics but like blue is saying, outside of 2011, where are the impact plays? Where is the leadership like seph says? Why are we paying a guy a superstar salary when he doesn't produce for half and arguably, the most important games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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