Someone get the suicide hotline ready.

[boohyah]

Coughlin has input in every decision, draft, free agents, selecting co-ordinators. Everything. To think otherwise would be idiotic. Reese and the owners have already said this in the past, Coughlin wouldn't still be doing this if that was the case, the man is too prideful and organized to allow that at his age, even if it means he's coaching a losing team every season. This is a guy who sits at every combine every year with his own notes watching college kids when he could be sitting at home letting someone who gets paid to do it, do it.

 

If he does not have control or say about what goes on at least on the field, then he wouldn't be called the head coach, he'd be a postional coach, and if he didn't have total control then why fucking hire a head coach?, couldn't you just pay a bunch of co-ordinators and ask them to work nicely together?.

 

2 years in a row losing seasons, we actually took a step back.

 

'

[Lughead]

 

well looks like i wont have to bother tuning in next year. The well get a new guy the year after that and be rebuilding 2-4 years after he is hired so Ill watch Giants football in 2020.

 

When you jump off the Fanwagon be careful that you dont get ran over....... make sure you jump way away from the wheels.

[Storm]

Coughlin has input in every decision, draft, free agents, selecting co-ordinators. Everything. To think otherwise would be idiotic. Reese and the owners have already said this in the past, Coughlin wouldn't still be doing this if that was the case, the man is too prideful and organized to allow that at his age, even if it means he's coaching a losing team every season. This is a guy who sits at every combine every year with his own notes watching college kids when he could be sitting at home letting someone who gets paid to do it, do it.

 

If he does not have control or say about what goes on at least on the field, then he wouldn't be called the head coach, he'd be a postional coach, and if he didn't have total control then why fucking hire a head coach?, couldn't you just pay a bunch of co-ordinators and ask them to work nicely together?.

 

2 years in a row losing seasons, we actually took a step back.

 

'

 

Again, the head coaching position does not exist in a vacuum. Input being the key word. Not "final say" or "ultimate decision".

[Storm]

And they certainly didn't take a step back. It was one loss difference and the team from this year would have absolutely pounded the team from last year.

 

They got rid of a lot of dead weight and a coordinator who wasn't doing the offense any favors.

[fishgutmartyr]

Why do we seem to live or die by the strength of the coordinators? Other teams live or die by their HC. Teflon Tom strikes again.

 

Because, just like every other team in the league, the HC doesn't drill down into every detail of a game plan. Not only would it be impossible for 1 person to try to run both sides of the ball, it would be ill-advised. At most, a HC will pick one side and run that, ala Fassel for a couple of years; usually the side he's most oriented towards. You try to do it any other way, and the life expectancy for head coaches would probably drop to their early 40's.

 

Do you think your guy, a former QB, was running the San Fran defense? Of course not, unless he was an idiot. He probably put in some broad strokes, and let Fangio work out the details. Naturally there's input, and there will be more than that during critical moments of the game--but the bulk of the game is called by the coordinator.

 

Coordinators are also typically the ones doing the hiring of position coaches, with the sign off of the head coach. That's almost a bigger deal than game-planning, because those coaches are the ones dealing with the players every day and preparing the players to execute game plans, they're the ones that are supposed to be doing the player development. Those are the coaches that should have been turned over long ago--and it's on the coordinators if they haven't.

 

Yes, a head coach has a lot of responsibility--as a generalist, in creating a culture, in creating an overall cohesion. The very fact we were in the last 5 games speaks to Coughlin's ability there. He does bear responsibilty for hiring and not firing the coordinators when it becomes necessary. But to blame Coughlin for some of the things he's getting blamed for would be like blaming the bugs in Yosemite on Paul Cook.

[Bigblue25]

 

Because, just like every other team in the league, the HC doesn't drill down into every detail of a game plan. Not only would it be impossible for 1 person to try to run both sides of the ball, it would be ill-advised. At most, a HC will pick one side and run that, ala Fassel for a couple of years; usually the side he's most oriented towards. You try to do it any other way, and the life expectancy for head coaches would probably drop to their early 40's.

 

Do you think your guy, a former QB, was running the San Fran defense? Of course not, unless he was an idiot. He probably put in some broad strokes, and let Fangio work out the details. Naturally there's input, and there will be more than that during critical moments of the game--but the bulk of the game is called by the coordinator.

 

Coordinators are also typically the ones doing the hiring of position coaches, with the sign off of the head coach. That's almost a bigger deal than game-planning, because those coaches are the ones dealing with the players every day and preparing the players to execute game plans, they're the ones that are supposed to be doing the player development. Those are the coaches that should have been turned over long ago--and it's on the coordinators if they haven't.

 

Yes, a head coach has a lot of responsibility--as a generalist, in creating a culture, in creating an overall cohesion. The very fact we were in the last 5 games speaks to Coughlin's ability there. He does bear responsibilty for hiring and not firing the coordinators when it becomes necessary. But to blame Coughlin for some of the things he's getting blamed for would be like blaming the bugs in Yosemite on Paul Cook.

Cowherd said the same thing yesterday on the radio. Head coaches get strong coordinators on the side their weakest at. Saban couldn't adapt to high tempo offenses, so he adopts it with Kiffin, Like BiC mentioned Gase with Fox, OBrien/McDaniels with Belichick and Marvin Lewis with Gruden/Jackson. It's where Rex failed and it's where Lovie has failed

[boohyah]

And they certainly didn't take a step back. It was one loss difference and the team from this year would have absolutely pounded the team from last year.

 

They got rid of a lot of dead weight and a coordinator who wasn't doing the offense any favors.

Pounded huh?

 

They won six times this year, and any team they faced worth a damn they lost to.

 

This current team pounds nobody, not right now.

[boohyah]

 

Again, the head coaching position does not exist in a vacuum. Input being the key word. Not "final say" or "ultimate decision".

Again, with the length of time he has been in this league, if tom coughlin was to sit there and let the giants hire and fire guys on a regular basis against his wishes, then he wouldnt stick around. Dont minimize the word input to suit your argument, his input carries serious weight as it should.

[Nas]

So long as Fewel goes, I don't care...

 

This. Anyone thinking Rex Ryan as our DC?

[Nas]

Not only that I bet Gilbride could have done the same. OBJ is ROY contender so I would imagine many OCs could have turned the O around with that type of talent. Also HCs are a product of their hiring just like in real life management jobs. As has been pointed out apparently Coughlin gets another slide because it's always the assistant coaches fault for all ills. Coughlin apparently plays the office politics game well.

 

There's no way of quantifying that... but if you look at Eli's INTs, then there's a strong case that McAdoo has done a great job for a rookie OC... Gilbride's O got stale and he didn't know how to spice it up... Now Fewel... that dude

[Nas]

Notice not one mention of what Teflon did well this year. Injuries? That's not on him. Depth? That's not on him. Crucial penalties and turnovers? Not Tom's fault.

But the 2 super bowl seasons, he was the maestro!

 

You make a compelling point here but I'm thinking stability & the lack of viable alternatives and the direction this organization is going trumped blowing the whole thing up... honestly I'm ok with either direction but I'm also a McAdoo fan (I'm rooting for the guy) and I think blowing the whole thing up would have thrown that off track.

[Treehugger]

LOL, driz- that could be 5 places. with an easier schedule. hardly a turnaround. lots of garbage time there too. 428 yards passing means crap if you don't win. and there again, if the offense is better, why aren't there more wins. Answer: Because our DC sucks- but Tom is great! (at what exactly?)

 

I don't think O and D rankings mean shit unless they're weighted against opponents' strength. We put up a lot of yards on some really bad D's down the stretch.

[Treehugger]

 

This. Anyone thinking Rex Ryan as our DC?

 

I would take him in an instant if there was a gag order built into his contract.He'll end up HC somewhere though, maybe Atlanta or Chicago.I have an intense dislike for the guy as a person, but he's a very good coach who got screwed by the Jets shitty front office.

[fishgutmartyr]

 

I don't think O and D rankings mean shit unless they're weighted against opponents' strength. We put up a lot of yards on some really bad D's down the stretch.

 

Dallas got to play us, Philly, and Washington 6 times. The Colts got to play Jacksonville, Tennesee, and Houston 6 times. Then got to play each other's divisions once.

 

Are those good offenses? Because they played very similar schedules to ours.

[Clarence the Blue Puppet]

If there was a better coach out there, I'd want Coughlin gone, but right now I don't see a better available option.

[Storm]

Pounded huh?

 

They won six times this year, and any team they faced worth a damn they lost to.

 

This current team pounds nobody, not right now.

 

You weren't comparing them to other teams. You were comparing them to the previous year's Giants team, which they improved upon markedly in nearly every statistical category with the exception being defense. Therein lies the problem.

[Storm]

Again, with the length of time he has been in this league, if tom coughlin was to sit there and let the giants hire and fire guys on a regular basis against his wishes, then he wouldnt stick around. Dont minimize the word input to suit your argument, his input carries serious weight as it should.

 

Well, fortunately booyah, the guys making the actual decisions don't mirror your opinions.

[Storm]

 

You make a compelling point here but I'm thinking stability & the lack of viable alternatives and the direction this organization is going trumped blowing the whole thing up... honestly I'm ok with either direction but I'm also a McAdoo fan (I'm rooting for the guy) and I think blowing the whole thing up would have thrown that off track.

 

This is the right line of thinking. It's clear that Ben McAdoo is head-coach-in-waiting. They need Coughlin to finish what he help start and keeping him makes the transition to McAdoo smoother. The Giants have nearly always hired from within, whether that be hiring guys that were once assistants and have moved elsewhere or promoting guys.

[Storm]

 

I don't think O and D rankings mean shit unless they're weighted against opponents' strength. We put up a lot of yards on some really bad D's down the stretch.

 

We did last year, too. And up until the final what, 4 weeks of the season and Bradley Fletcher's (who I don't believe actually saw the field much against us) complete meltdown, Philly's defense was a good defense. The final rankings and statistics were a bit skewed by Chip Kelly's ADHD offense but that team forced turnovers and rushed the passer very well. They also put up 500 yards on the Rams, who have a solid defense.

[NightFire]

Notice not one mention of what Teflon did well this year. Injuries? That's not on him. Depth? That's not on him. Crucial penalties and turnovers? Not Tom's fault.

But the 2 super bowl seasons, he was the maestro!

 

Exactly. I'm not saying he's some terrible coach but the posters here constantly give him a pass for bad seasons. How many terrible DCs are hired that aren't his fault? Is he not making any of these decisions? It's always Fewell sucks, Sheridan sucks, Lewis sucks but when does Coughlin suck? When is he accountable for the team?

[boohyah]

 

This is the right line of thinking. It's clear that Ben McAdoo is head-coach-in-waiting. They need Coughlin to finish what he help start and keeping him makes the transition to McAdoo smoother. The Giants have nearly always hired from within, whether that be hiring guys that were once assistants and have moved elsewhere or promoting guys.

Explain how its clear hes a head coach in waiting. Based off what?

[boohyah]

 

Well, fortunately booyah, the guys making the actual decisions don't mirror your opinions.

You talk to the mara's on a regular basis?

You got jerrys cell on speeddial?

[boohyah]

 

You weren't comparing them to other teams. You were comparing them to the previous year's Giants team, which they improved upon markedly in nearly every statistical category with the exception being defense. Therein lies the problem.

Last year, we played a second place schedule, this year a third place schedule. Furthermore, last i heard offense and defense made up a team, and if the defense is a problem, then its pretty silly to make comments like "statiscally we were better than last year".not in the stat that counted!!!

[boohyah]

 

Exactly. I'm not saying he's some terrible coach but the posters here constantly give him a pass for bad seasons. How many terrible DCs are hired that aren't his fault? Is he not making any of these decisions? It's always Fewell sucks, Sheridan sucks, Lewis sucks but when does Coughlin suck? When is he accountable for the team?

Tom doesnt make decisions on this team. He is just good at yelling and hand gestures.

[Storm]

 

Exactly. I'm not saying he's some terrible coach but the posters here constantly give him a pass for bad seasons. How many terrible DCs are hired that aren't his fault? Is he not making any of these decisions? It's always Fewell sucks, Sheridan sucks, Lewis sucks but when does Coughlin suck? When is he accountable for the team?

 

Because Coughlin is the one opening his wallet and paying these guys. I forgot, he's responsible for hiring, personnel, injuries, what regions the game is televised in, whether the Giants win the coin toss, etc. etc.