Derrick Ward...

[gmenroc]

I've had friends who were gay as well. Again, I disagree with the lifestyle, they knew I disagreed with it, but they also respected the fact that I didn't treat them any differently than I would a hetero friend. One of my college buddies who was gay was probably the best beer pong player I ever knew or saw, so we would constantly dominate tables at parties.

 

Then again, they weren't flying their gay flag high as the eye could see. At the same time, if asked about it, they'd discuss it. They weren't keeping secrets and they weren't advertising it.

 

I agree Bleedin', it shouldn't be news, but because it sells, it is.

[BleedinBlue]

i can live with the media being annoying about this and overblowing the story. what i can't deal with is these bullshit manufactured narratives that nobody signed jason collins for a while because he was gay (not because he fucking sucks) or that sam "fell" to the 7th round because he came out of the closet. him going undrafted was entirely possible before he made his announcement

Jason Collins signed with the Brooklyn Nets after he came out. It didn't hurt his career....which was anything but stellar. In fact, I doubt he would have been picked up if he hadn't come out and declare he's gay.

 

I just don't get the fuss. Do you really think if a player like Lawrence Taylor or Jerry Rice or Barry Sanders was gay, that no team would take him? Of course they would because to field a winning team, you need great players....regardless of what they do in their bedroom.

 

There's been rumors galore for the last year that Aaron Rogers is gay because of the guy he hangs out with, who is openly gay. I don't think he is, nor do I care if he is. As shrieking Hillary would say, "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE". Rogers is on the team because he can throw a football very well and is a quality QB. It has nothing to do with whether or not he likes to suck a little cock now and then.

[Herc]

Jason Collins signed with the Brooklyn Nets after he came out. It didn't hurt his career....which was anything but stellar. In fact, I doubt he would have been picked up if he hadn't come out and declare he's gay.

 

I just don't get the fuss. Do you really think if a player like Lawrence Taylor or Jerry Rice or Barry Sanders was gay, that no team would take him? Of course they would because to field a winning team, you need great players....regardless of what they do in their bedroom.

 

There's been rumors galore for the last year that Aaron Rogers is gay because of the guy he hangs out with, who is openly gay. I don't think he is, nor do I care if he is. As shrieking Hillary would say, "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE". Rogers is on the team because he can throw a football very well and is a quality QB. It has nothing to do with whether or not he likes to suck cock now and then.

 

yeah it took like a year though and people were saying it was cuz he was gay. meanwhile everyone glossed over the fact that he had been a free agent a year prior to coming out

[Mr. P]

When you're the first, it's always a big deal, like it or not. Fact of life.

[BleedinBlue]

yeah it took like a year though and people were saying it was cuz he was gay. meanwhile everyone glossed over the fact that he had been a free agent a year prior to coming out

Actually, he was cut in July 2013, and signed February 2014 when the Nets needed a backup big guy - that's 8 months, 4 of which were off season. After 14 years in the NBA, getting old, weary legs, and having lost a step (or quite a few steps), he was nearing retirement anyway. 7-footers who score less than 2 points a game are not in high demand. He hadn't scored more than 2 points a game for the last 3 teams and 3 years he played in the NBA, and when he did score more than that (4 years ago with Atlanta) it was 2.1 points per game. He's damn lucky he was signed by any team with those numbers and his age.

 

Bottom line: his sexual preference had nothing to do with basketball and he would be a virtual unknown person (except die-hard NBA fans who follow every player) to 99.9999999% of the U.S. The only reason his name is even mentioned is because he's gay....certainly not because of his basketball play.

[Herc]

semantics aside, it took a long time for him to get signed and people spun that into the league being afraid of an openly gay guy, which was bullshit because he went the previous season without playing. even when he was in his prime he wasn't a good player

[*SDMF*]

this is the problem:

 

he was a 7th round pick and the only reason why his name is known is because he said he was gay.

 

if he didnt come out and say that not one of us would know his name. fucking bullshit. if your gay great for you. there are most likely plenty of gay football players but you dont see them making a scene. just stfu and play football.

[Virginia Giant]

I really don't get the resentment, well, i do......

 

This is news because he is breaking down stereotypes and barriers. Because of him other players will be able to live their lives in the open, not having tp wiorry thay the paparazzi will take a picture of them with their lovers in private and expose their secret.

 

Its about freedom, plain and simple.

[*SDMF*]

I really don't get the resentment, well, i do......

 

This is news because he is breaking down stereotypes and barriers. Because of him other players will be able to live their lives in the open, not having tp wiorry thay the paparazzi will take a picture of them with their lovers in private and expose their secret.

 

Its about freedom, plain and simple.

yeah but thats a price anyone in the nfl will have to pay. paparazzi will follow a story on anyone who is doing something tabloid worthy, gay or not.

[Virginia Giant]

yeah but thats a price anyone in the nfl will have to pay. paparazzi will follow a story on anyone who is doing something tabloid worthy, gay or not.

 

 

Yeah, but look at the reaction of fans when someone like Alex Rodruigez or Aaron Rodgers is rumored to be gay, the media and fans go ape shit. Won't it be nice when there are enough openly gay players in the nfl and other sports that this won't be a story.

[*SDMF*]

 

 

Yeah, but look at the reaction of fans when someone like Alex Rodruigez or Aaron Rodgers is rumored to be gay, the media and fans go ape shit. Won't it be nice when there are enough openly gay players in the nfl and other sports that this won't be a story.

honestly i personally can care less. wouldnt it be nice if no one cared about what other people did in their own bedroom? its just the way the media twists it. i feelthat its a non story and should be treated as such.

[JMFP]

Wake me up when football is about football again.

 

Really could not give a shit about someone's sexual orientation, and that means I don't have an interest in nonstop gay coverage.

 

I'm pulling for Sam to have a good career, and I think he would have gone earlier if not for the gay issue.

 

But enough with forcing people to live on Planet Gay.

[Herc]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10937109/michael-sam-needs-send-message-making-roster-nfl

 

The right message Sam could gain more for LGBT community by just focusing on making the roster

Updated: May 15, 2014, 8:42 PM ET

By Jason Whitlock | ESPN.com

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NFL Live on Michael Sam Documentary

Damien Woody and Darren Woodson wonder if Michael Sam's documentary keeps the focus on football.Tags: Michael Sam, NFL Live, Damien Woody, Darren Woodson,Oprah Winfrey, documentary

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• Oprah Acquires Rights To Michael Sam Documentary

I say this as a supporter of Michael Sam, I say it as a reformed homophobe, I say it as someone who believes the equality of black and brown people is connected to the equality and freedom granted to gays and lesbians:

Michael Sam's decision to do a "documentary series" -- reality TV show -- on the Oprah Winfrey Network is a gigantic tactical error for Sam and his supporters within the LGBT community.

America, for the most part, would wrap its arms around Michael Sam, the gay, underdog football player fighting to find his place in the NFL. America, for the most part, will reject Michael $am, the gay, in-your-face political/media pawn using the NFL as a platform to launch his celebrity brand.

[+] Enlarge

Courtesy of Darren RovellMichael Sam's popularity showed as his St. Louis jersey was the second-best seller behind Johnny Manziel's on NFL draft weekend.

Michael $am contradicts Michael Sam, the SEC Defensive Player of the Year who repeatedly swore he just wanted to focus on football, not his sexuality.

Oprah and her foundering TV network do not care about X's and O's. They care about salacious and sensational human drama and the kind of XOXOXs that take place in the bedroom. For context, OWN is the documentary-series home for Lindsay Lohan, the child actress-turned-serial drug-rehabber. That is not written to suggest OWN does not do and aspire to do high-end TV journalism (Lance Armstrong interview). It's written to imply that even Oprah's standards cave to the demands of Nielsen ratings.

Michael $am undermines the credibility of Michael Sam.

It all feels orchestrated now: the draft-day kiss; the cake-covered face; the tears; the celebration that conveniently captured just Sam, his boyfriend and his two agents; and even the "Stand with Sam" T-shirts selling onmichaelsam.com.

Who knew a reality TV show was being filmed? Who knew Sam's agents (Cameron Weiss and Joe Barkett) and publicist (Howard Bragman) had cut deals to be producers on the reality TV show?

This is all scripted and amateur. And devious, too.

Michael Sam, the football player, is being used ... by everyone. Weiss, Barkett and Bragman are cashing in. Oprah is hoping an attachment to the NFL can breathe life into her network the way the league does for CBS, Fox, NBC and ESPN. The LGBT movement appears to be more concerned with Sam advancing the cause than making the roster. And, yes, the cause is more important than football. But playing football advances the cause a lot more than Real World St. Louis.

On Wednesday morning, before the announcement of the reality show, I interviewed Cyd Zeigler, co-founder of outsports.com, about the male-male kiss. I was planning to write a column that would discuss how parents should talk to their kids about Sam and the kiss.

[+] Enlarge

AP Photo/Ben LiebenbergMichael Sam's draft stock dropped after a poor performance at the combine.

"I'm so glad [ESPN] broadcasted it," Zeigler said. "I hope they broadcast it 100 times a day for the 100 days. We have been protecting kids far too long from themselves. There are kids 7 or 8 years old who realize they are gay, and they've been raised in the world that has told them for 7 or 8 years that it is either wrong or certainly not how they're supposed to be.

"The faster parents can tell their kids, the more lives those parents are going to save."

I get it. I understand the urgency.

But Sam has to play in the NFL to be an effective role model and pioneer. He has to fit into a locker room environment before he can transform that environment.

He is simply not a good enough football player to travel with Oprah's circus and the NFL's. He needs to choose one. He's a seventh-round draft pick who ran a 4.91-second 40-yard dash at the combine. He's a special-teams player.

Sam's handlers have misinterpreted the comparisons between Sam and Jackie Robinson. No. 42 had Hall of Fame talent from day one. No one questioned his skill. His teammates could not deny his obvious ability to excel in the majors and help the Dodgers win.

I know the meme: Sam was SEC Defensive Player of the Year and a first-team All-American. Of course he can play in the NFL.

Well, Jackson Jeffcoat, son of former NFL defensive lineman Jim Jeffcoat, was Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year and a consensus All-American at defensive end. He was a five-star recruit coming out of high school. Jeffcoat did not get drafted and signed a free-agent contract with Seattle.

I believe Michael Sam can play in the NFL. I've written that, and stand by those words. His approach to making a roster is wrong. The NFL unemployment line is littered with guys who had enough talent to play but brought the wrong attitude. In terms of approach, Sam reminds me of Vince Young, the Texas quarterback who came to the league with the wrong handlers in his ear and washed out at a young age.

Sam reported to the combine out of shape and embarrassed himself. He launched a website that is a merchandise store. He complained about being drafted too low. And now he's signing up for a reality show focused on his personal life and professional journey.

He's a seventh-round pick. This is preposterous. I support Michael Sam and the movement he represents. However, if I were Rams coach Jeff Fisher, I'd consider cutting $am today. He's a marginal player with questionable focus on the game.

Michael $am thinks he's Jadeveon Clowney, a freakish defensive end with questionable passion for the game. Clowney could get away with a reality TV show, a merchandise store and scripted draft-day love scenes. Clowney's upside is so enormous that coaches and teammates will tolerate his diva tendencies the same way coaches and players toleratedRandy Moss for years.

This thing with Sam is playing out so bizarrely that I now wonder whether his handlers/manipulators totally misread his talent and the NFL. It appears they read "SEC Defensive Player of the Year" and assumed that meant "the next Lawrence Taylor." They're likely baffled that Clowney could play in the same conference as Sam, post inferior stats and be the toast of the NFL draft while Sam is a few picks from Mr. Irrelevant.

Michael $am is not the right play for the LGBT movement. Michael Sam would uplift the cause and set the table for a gay superstar football player.

Michael $am will be run out of the NFL quicker than Tim Tebow, another celebrity brand whose talent did not justify the circus that followed him.

[Mr. P]

this is the problem:

 

he was a 7th round pick and the only reason why his name is known is because he said he was gay.

 

if he didnt come out and say that not one of us would know his name. fucking bullshit. if your gay great for you. there are most likely plenty of gay football players but you dont see them making a scene. just stfu and play football.

 

You think so? He was the co SEC defensive player of the year. if you look at the list of past SEC defensive players of the year, a vast majority were first round picks.

[gmenroc]

So now he's exploiting his own gay-dom for the almighty dollar. That'll win 'em over.

[Herc]

he had the nerve to say that he should've been drafted higher when he was basically picked in the range that he was projected to be in before he came out

[Herc]

can't wait til we get to hear about how he should be starting over robert quinn

[BleedinBlue]

To start with....Sam was never projected to be a first round pick. CBS draft site had him ranked as the 169th best player in the nation (and any ranking over the top 20 is bullshit, but that was the case). CBS draft had him possibly going as high as a 5th round pick.

 

NFL.com on the other hand, had him projected as a 7th round pick or UDFA. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/michael-sam?id=2543734

 

He was not an elite player at Missouri University, which only played one year in the SEC conference after joining last year.

 

He is not a true linebacker (a little too slow) and not a true DE (a little too small) in the NFL, but a tweener or hybrid. Although he was expected to draw interest in the middle to late rounds, his draft stock fell when he performed poorly at the combine. He was neither fast nor agile, and put up mediocre numbers in the strength department.

 

So every time I hear people saying, "what the hell man, he was a first round draft pick", I ask, "do you ever study players you comment on"? He has never ever been talked about as an early draft pick.

 

Furthermore, he's going to a team that has Chris Long and Robert Quinn as established defensive ends who are miles ahead of him in playing status. Unless one of them go down, he wouldn't ever see the field. You don't sit Chris Long so that an undersized rookie can get in the game.

 

The Rams have put themselves in a pickle in as much as they probably can't cut him for not being good enough to play at the NFL level because the media will explode on them with a vengeance.

 

Regardless....let's stop the "he's a first rounder", "he fell down the draft board cuz he's gay" shit....he was projected as a 7th rounder or free agent from the get go and his piss poor combine put him in the latter category.

[Nas]

this is the problem:

 

he was a 7th round pick and the only reason why his name is known is because he said he was gay.

 

if he didnt come out and say that not one of us would know his name. fucking bullshit. if your gay great for you. there are most likely plenty of gay football players but you dont see them making a scene. just stfu and play football.

 

Here's how I see it.. and it cuts both ways... let me first say that personally I'm not too comfortable with the Gay in your face attitude some gay people try to achieve... I think a lot of us could give 2 shits about people's sexuality... one of my army buddies put it best when he said "I love gay people.. I wish all of you were gay because the more gay people there are the more pussy is left for me"... Now the flip side of the coin there is anger and hatred towards gays simply because of their sexuality... and as usual both extremes are never appealing.

[BleedinBlue]

Your buddy makes a good point Naz. I remember the hot chicks in Binghamton were so discouraged because all the really great looking guys were gay. Made me laugh because now they have to settle for some shmuck like me.

 

Regardless...I don't anyone who hates gays. I know plenty of people who think it's weird and unconventional to say the least, but there is no hatred. In fact, all the gays I know assimilate with the rest of us as if there was nothing different other than human beings working together, partying together, or whatever. I know there are hate groups and that never made any sense to me.

 

I am with you on the "in yer face" gays who feel the need to flaunt it and aggressively make it an issue when it's the last thing on earth you feel like wasting time in your life thinking about someone else's sex life. On average, we get 26,280 days on planet earth....the first 4,000 we can't even remember except for moments that were traumatizing or memorable for some reason - a goodly number of those days when we're incapacitated, and the last days not always so good. So we like to make the most of the few days we're given on this earth and wasting that time dealing with someone else who insists that you know about and think about his or her sexual preferences is not something I wish to waste my days on, let alone a single minute.

 

As for Sam, if you can play football at the NFL level as an undersized DE - more power to you. If you like to suck cock - more power to you, just keep it between you and your boyfriend. We already get it - you're not into girls. Fine, play football - if you can, that is.

[Mr. P]

he had the nerve to say that he should've been drafted higher when he was basically picked in the range that he was projected to be in before he came out

 

 

i know it's just one site, but walterfootball has archived mock drafts.

 

 

january 29th mock has him going in round 2 to san diego.

 

feb 5th also in round 2 to san diego.

 

jan 22 has him round 2 to san diego.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the first mock after he came out has him dropping to the 4th.

 

 

 

basically he was top 3 rounds before he came out, on walterfootball.com

 

im not sure where else to find archived mocks, but that is one place.

[BleedinBlue]

i know it's just one site, but walterfootball has archived mock drafts.

 

 

january 29th mock has him going in round 2 to san diego.

 

feb 5th also in round 2 to san diego.

 

jan 22 has him round 2 to san diego.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the first mock after he came out has him dropping to the 4th.

 

 

 

basically he was top 3 rounds before he came out, on walterfootball.com

 

im not sure where else to find archived mocks, but that is one place.

I like Walter Football, but the site is run by fans. They do not pay scouts to build a fan based scouting service like ESPN and the NFL Network. In fact, most of their information is second, third, fourth hand analysis that derived from either ESPN or NFL Network with in put from a handful of fans who watch players on a specific team they root for all year.

 

One of things people don't realize, is that "fan scouting services" are not the same as "team scouting services". NFL Network and ESPN pay pretty good money to past football players/coaches/etc., in order to feed the frenzy of fans who need something, anything, in the off season. Their top analysts tend to have a few inside relationships with teams' scouts that drop hints to them (for a fee). Because of that, they tend to guess better than fans and build a board based on that.

 

Team scouting services on the other hand invest incredible amounts of money on professional scouts who work all year round watching every game either in person or on film...over, and over, and over. Plus, each team has different styles of play and build a draft board around players that fit their scheme. And the kicker is, they never let out of the bag who they like or who they think is an upcoming stud that fits their strategy.

 

I was reading an article yesterday about how shocked fans would be to put fan scouting draft board side by side with a team's scouting draft board. Fans would be shocked.

 

Regardless, at 6-feet-2, 255 pounds, slower than average, below average strength, and unable to change directions quickly is not the typical characteristics a team is looking for in a DE....or LB for that matter. In a way, it's possible to argue that if he had not come out and said he was gay, he might have gone undrafted - especially after coming in almost dead last at the combines compared to every other DE and LB who were at the combines.

[Mr. P]

Ok, well I'd love to see some mock drafts from before he came out showing that he was projected as a 7th rounder.

 

 

Seems to me he was projected around 3rd or 4th.

[Mr. P]

 

In February, when he came out, Sam had been projected as somewhere near a third-round pick.

 

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/sportingscene/2014/05/michael-sams-draft-moment.html

[Herc]

i'll be sifting through thousands of michael sam articles all day if i try to look for what i read back in february but i do remember reading that he was being projected anywhere from 4th round to undrafted. as far as mock drafts go i have no idea, i've only been looking at kiper and mcshay's and they don't go too deep