Herc Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 i mean it's your right to think that but as you'll see within the next few months you are wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Oh, I fully expect him to get an 8-9 million per year offer from someone...I'm just saying that we shouldn't be that team given our cap number and given his performance on this team as of late. At the same time, I think we still should make him an offer that we think is fair and the team can handle cap-wise, leaving it up to him to take it or leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 i mean it's your right to think that but as you'll see within the next few months you are wrong I think you've made it pretty clear you have immense confidence in him. Truth is np one can predict the future... Any GM would have to ask himself which version of Nicks will he be signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I could see Hakeem accepting a team friendly contract, something over five or six years and incentive heavy. I mean he's never stated that he want's to leave the Giants despite all the fan rhetoric of him having a "bad attitude". However I also see some other team, much like the Patriots or even San Fran offering him a shorter contract with more money up front. Really I'd feel much more comfortable with Nicks, Cruz, Randle, JJ going into 2014 then having Cruz, Randle, JJ and some rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I think you've made it pretty clear you have immense confidence in him. Truth is np one can predict the future... Any GM would have to ask himself which version of Nicks will he be signing. this has nothing to do with my opinion of him. i am dealing in facts here. he's a 25 year old superbowl hero with 3 productive years, one year playing on one leg and one year where every single player on the offense's numbers were down because of the o-line and bad qb play. it'd be one thing if he was 30, but he's not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 i am not telling you that you should have the opinion that we should give him a big contract. but he will get paid, and the raiders thing is kind of dated seeing as how al davis has been dead for two years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 this has nothing to do with my opinion of him. i am dealing in facts here. he's a 25 year old superbowl hero with 3 productive years, one year playing on one leg and one year where every single player on the offense's numbers were down because of the o-line and bad qb play. it'd be one thing if he was 30, but he's not I understand what you're saying.. but who's to say he hasn't slowed down due to injuries? Having Nicks on the team is much better than not because he already knows the system... but as a GM how do you know for sure which Nicks you're getting? The first 2 years were great but again.. how do you know 2013 was just a bad year and there's nothing more serious going on? Also if he signs with another team the Giants would be stupid not to go after a #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I understand what you're saying.. but who's to say he hasn't slowed down due to injuries? Having Nicks on the team is much better than not because he already knows the system... but as a GM how do you know for sure which Nicks you're getting? The first 2 years were great but again.. how do you know 2013 was just a bad year and there's nothing more serious going on? Also if he signs with another team the Giants would be stupid not to go after a #1. The only thing is, we cant get a #1 in FA, I don't think there is anyone not to mention we don't have the money to lure anyone away. And the Giant's would be even dumber....dumberer....dumbester? Not to draft the future of the O-line with the first couple picks in the draft. From what I've been reading there is way to much O-line talent at the top of this draft not to go after a stud tackle or mauling guard who is going to keep Eli from ending up on IR and whoever eventually replaces Eli in the next few years. The Giant's might just have to go into a season with Cruz or Randle as the #1 WR, unless they can work some magic and find a special WR in the bottom of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I understand what you're saying.. but who's to say he hasn't slowed down due to injuries? Having Nicks on the team is much better than not because he already knows the system... but as a GM how do you know for sure which Nicks you're getting? The first 2 years were great but again.. how do you know 2013 was just a bad year and there's nothing more serious going on? Also if he signs with another team the Giants would be stupid not to go after a #1. any deal will require a physical but he had enough big plays to show that he hasn't lost a step Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 but i thought the giants had a #1 wr. isn't that what cruz is supposed to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman329 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Cruz is a slot receiver, which some teams have featured as their "#1" (see Wes Welker, with New England). However, a slot guy needs a threat on the outside for max effectiveness (or in New England, a "Gronk"). Nicks WAS the perfect outside compliment to Cruz but I wouldn't offer him anymore than a one year "prove it" deal after this year. If he gets a big multi-year deal elsewhere, God Bless him, see ya later.......but guys like he WAS two years ago don't just grow on trees. Between free agency and the draft, we need to address the OL first....then LB's & DB's......with Wilson & Brown's health issues, RB's could be a major need, too. And we don't know if Tuck and Kiwi will return, so a DE could also be needed.... My point is, considering all our needs and cap limitations, if Nicks isn't here, don't look for a big splashy WR replacement. Much more likely is we try to fill that spot with Randle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 but i thought the giants had a #1 wr. isn't that what cruz is supposed to be? I can't think of anyone here who claimed Cruz is a #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 he's being paid like one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 he's being paid like one Far from it actually. He's making under 8 million a year, with a incentive heavy based contract that has only guaranteed him 15 million in the first two seasons. He's making roughly the same money as Stevie Johnson out of Buffalo, who he's outperformed and Marcus Colston who he has roughly the same numbers with. In retrospect, Calvin Johnson arguably the best WR in the league made 23 million dollars this season. Welker is making a guaranteed 12 million plus signing bonus for just two seasons in Denver, all fully guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 marcus colston is a #1 receiver. stevie johnson was a #1 when he received his contract. nobody is comparing cruz to calvin johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 and they were both x-receivers too though johnson moved into the slot this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 marcus colston is a #1 receiver. stevie johnson was a #1 when he received his contract. nobody is comparing cruz to calvin johnson They are both two of the lower ranked #1s in the league. If anything Cruz has out performed other teams #1 this year alone and is getting paid far less then them. Here is Cruz's cap number compared to the rest of the WRs in the league. http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries-cap.php?Position=WR&Year=2013 Look who's second from the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 antonio brown: 5 years 42 mil 8.5 guaranteed roddy white: 6 years 42 mil 18.6 guaranteed pierre garcon 5 years 42.5 mil 8.5 mil guaranteed these are #1 x-receiver contracts that were handed out the last couple of seasons. victor cruz isn't in any of their classes. he should've topped out at what the pats gave amendola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 what matters is total guaranteed money, not what cap friendly number you let the team give you in the short term. all that does is show what an amicable guy you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 his cap numbers the next 5 years: 7.4, 8.1, 9.9, 9.4, 8.5 not that i hope it comes to this but you couldn't even think about cutting him until 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 he's being paid like one He earned it though. He played for chump-change (relatively speaking) and he very well earned his payday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 so he's a #1 then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 so he's a #1 then? Depends on what makes #1... If you look at physique .. Cruz is a slot receiver... If you look at production...the dude earned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lughead Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Depends on what makes #1... If you look at physique .. Cruz is a slot receiver... If you look at production...the dude earned it. Cruz earned slot Money Not X money BUT the Giants did not want to lose Cruz to another team that wanted to pay Cruz X money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lughead Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Also Nicks said he would give the Giants the home team discount but I am sure he will field offers and then come back at Reece with a number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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