Allstarjim Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 My new article on First Stop Fantasy, and I quoted Fish - http://firststopfantasy.com/nfl-teams/new-york-giants/playing-the-blame-game/ Hope that was ok, Fish, but you nailed it with that comment, I think it's the biggest issue with this team, and it's deeply entrenched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Nice one, Jim. I agree. It's time for this Chitty Chitty Bang Bang offense to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue25 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 This is great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Great job, Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I expect to be quoted next. No dammit, i demand it,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK-Giantsfan Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Well done Jim , an excellent read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I have some issue with this, Jim. If you're going to quote someone, you're being disingenuous at best (and it's plagerism at worst) if you obscure the source. Quoting "a fan site" without reference or link is not kosher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I have some issue with this, Jim. If you're going to quote someone, you're being disingenuous at best (and it's plagerism at worst) if you obscure the source. Quoting "a fan site" without reference or link is not kosher. Yeah, but I can understand why.... anonymous person on a message board may not want to be quoted publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Yeah, but I can understand why.... anonymous person on a message board may not want to be quoted publicly. He's a) posted it on a public message board and b) already anonymous. I've seen message board quotes end up in Federal lawsuits, there's no restriction on using them. However, if Jim can't quote directly he should paraphrase it. Lifting the text directly without giving a reference, particularly such a big quote, isn't cool at all. Not cool to Fish and not cool to Nem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 He's a) posted it on a public message board and b) already anonymous. I've seen message board quotes end up in Federal lawsuits, there's no restriction on using them. However, if Jim can't quote directly he should paraphrase it. Lifting the text directly without giving a reference, particularly such a big quote, isn't cool at all. Not cool to Fish and not cool to Nem. all true, I'm just saying I don't think allstarjim meant any harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 all true, I'm just saying I don't think allstarjim meant any harm. Oh I don't think that either. I suspect he's not supposed to advertise other sites in his column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 It's a good idea to get advance approval, but I agree with Crazed Dogs that it was a harmless oversight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Tree, this is not a scholarly article here. And I wasn't passing it off on my own, I did quote Fish, I think the plagiarism charge is too far, come on guy. If I wrote that as my own thoughts that's one thing, but I wouldn't do that. One thing I do agree with you on, is I should have gotten Fish's permission first (although you probably wouldn't have known if I had). But I didn't source this website because I don't have permission from the FSF owner to promote another sports website, even a discussion site like this one, on his site. I didn't think it was that huge of a deal, I meant it as a bit of an homage to Fish. But next time I will ask permission if I quote any of you. Shit, half of my readers are you guys, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I never said you should have gotten Fish's permission, quite the opposite. Like I said it's a public forum. But if you don't cite the source it's theft (and it's really Nem you're stealing from, not Fish). If your site has any aspirations to be taken seriously then you need to adhere to the basic standards of journalism. If you're going to quote someone, do it properly. Name the actual site and the actual poster of the quote. If your editor won't allow that then don't use direct quotes. It's not a homage when you obscure your source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I never said you should have gotten Fish's permission, quite the opposite. Like I said it's a public forum. But if you don't cite the source it's theft (and it's really Nem you're stealing from, not Fish). If your site has any aspirations to be taken seriously then you need to adhere to the basic standards of journalism. If you're going to quote someone, do it properly. Name the actual site and the actual poster of the quote. If your editor won't allow that then don't use direct quotes. It's not a homage when you obscure your source. I don't think any harm was done... it would have been nice for SW to have been mentioned by name but that may have been a violation of that site's rule. At the end of the day Jim gave credit to Fish and that's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 allstarjim, I have a bigger problem with FSF not permitting 'promotion' of another website... its not promotion, its citation, which is a lynchpin of serious journalism. I think that is something they will want to reconsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 CD, I agree with your statement. I could've asked, and permission may have been given. I didn't ask, and didn't want to assume that he'd be ok with that. I didn't think it was going to be a big deal. Citing a source from an internet site is important, agreed. Not in a public forum like this one. I don't see how I'm stealing from Nem. The words I type here do not belong to Nem. They are mine. I should've gotten Fish's permission, that was an oversight on my part. However, in the future, perhaps before slinging around plagiarism charges, maybe send me a PM, (not you, Tree) and I can address it with whomever. I may have received permission already. Again, SW is a public forum. So it's the AUTHOR I should get permission from, not SW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Jim, I'm not trying to make a personal beef with you, but again, I never said you needed to ask for ANYONE'S permission, as long as you cite the source the quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Jim, I see Tree's point--from a journalism standpoint. But you also know I'm cool with it. It really didn't matter that much to me, since this is an open public forum. I might have been upset if it was from the General Discussion section, though. The restrictions are different, and post differently there. Just for the record, in my text book publishing days, fair usage is 35 words or less. Anything beyo,nd that, a publisher had to seek permission, even with published works. Hell, even if the author is pulling from a different book that he/she wrote; one that the same company published. Citation is a different matter. On a blog, it's a no-brainer. On a message board forum? I'm not sure where that falls. It would have been nice for Nem to get some extra clicks in, but since there's no ads on here, and he's not doing it for profit-making purposes; I don't think Nem is going to have a stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 You know, I do want to thank Tree for bringing this up. It is a helpful discussion. The only issue I had was the public plagiarism charge, but it was a fair criticism. And for me to be a better writer, I have to be mindful of that always. So honestly, Tree, thank you. I appreciate it when people enjoy the content, or take something out of it, but also, if there is something you feel isn't right, that criticism and feedback is extremely helpful. I just wish you PM'ed me before writing the word "plagiarism", because that's a serious ethical charge. And all the feedback is appreciated, thank you guys, and to Fish for being cool with me quoting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Fair enough Jim, I'm sorry for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 It was a good article. I want it forwarded to the Giants front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Fair enough Jim, I'm sorry for that. No worries man, we're good. I'd rather you point it out in some way than not at all, anyway, because I will be more mindful of it going forward. CD, thank you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Jim, Maybe if you have another article you are working on, you can start a thread in advance and we could throw you some ideas/thoughts that you could use in your next article. That way, you'll have ready quotes, and advance permission to use them. (I think an article about Khaseem Greene would be awesome) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now