BlueInCanada Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Haha, you're saying it's impossible for a center to botch a snap. What the fuck is wrong with you? It happens probably 10 times a season, per team. Storm that's not what I'm saying. Honestly read before you post. I'm saying it has almost never happened in today NFL that the victory kneel down has been fumbled, regardless of how many times teams have "Tried to go for the ball" in that play. I never once said a center wont botch a snap, but show me once when a team that has gone for the ball when the QB was kneeling down, have actually had it work. There's a reason why 99.999% of the time, teams dont bother trying to "play for the win" in that formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 It was a cheap shot, I appreciate the never say die attitude, but hitting unsuspecting players like that is uncalled for. Say it causes a fumble but a lineman tears an acl. Maybe kneel downs should be outlawed and you play to the whistle, but until then no matter what you think may happen, you don't hit unsuspecting players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Well in the old days the ball would have flown 20 yds and been picked up for a TD and we would have lost in OT.........we have the football gods on our side now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Again, i'm not sure how this is such a big deal. Wouldn't that be the ideal time to try something. And Schiano did this in college. Be ready at all times. The question I would have is why he didn't do it at the end of the first half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 "I'm not talking about any snap from under center, I'm talking about the QB taking a knee in the "victory formation"" On one hand, you're saying a snap from a kneel down formation is different from any other snap under center. I beg to differ. There's little to no difference. And even if there were, the ball still has to come up off the ground, through the center's legs, and the QB still has to safely handle it. The most basic of football plays but it's been messed up hundreds of times. The only thing different about this formation is where everyone is lined up. Two, you freely admit that QBs and Centers have miscues during said exchanges that have, in the past, led to turnovers. Three, despite the slim chances of it occurring, the chance is still there, but you'd prefer to just stand up and walk off the field? So when my team plays yours, and I'm kneeling down for a win and I botch the snap while you're walking off the field, you're gonna feel like a huge dick. There's no reason not to hustle and give the guys across the line a shot on the final play of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 There's a lapse in logic somewhere there, not sure, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Again, i'm not sure how this is such a big deal. Wouldn't that be the ideal time to try something. And Schiano did this in college. Be ready at all times. The question I would have is why he didn't do it at the end of the first half? Okay, what's up here? I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 "I'm not talking about any snap from under center, I'm talking about the QB taking a knee in the "victory formation"" On one hand, you're saying a snap from a kneel down formation is different from any other snap under center. I beg to differ. There's little to no difference. And even if there were, the ball still has to come up off the ground, through the center's legs, and the QB still has to safely handle it. The most basic of football plays but it's been messed up hundreds of times. The only thing different about this formation is where everyone is lined up. Two, you freely admit that QBs and Centers have miscues during said exchanges that have, in the past, led to turnovers. Three, despite the slim chances of it occurring, the chance is still there, but you'd prefer to just stand up and walk off the field? So when my team plays yours, and I'm kneeling down for a win and I botch the snap while you're walking off the field, you're gonna feel like a huge dick. There's no reason not to hustle and give the guys across the line a shot on the final play of the game. Storm, I'll give you that, there is no difference between a center snap in the Flying V or a regular exchange, I never disagreed on this. But honestly you cant argue with statistics, or that fact that it has (not going to say never) rarely ever happened in the NFL. If it was there was such a chance that the QB would mess up the exchange and that the two RBs who are positioned beside the QB wont recover the ball, then why dont we see it in today's NFL that you dont send all your bigs out there and have them push like it was a 4th and one? Why don't we see coaches who are in a desperate situation do what what's his face was against the Giants more often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I HAVE seen it before. I've seen it in college a lot more...but it happens....you just don't have the dudes flopping to the ground en masse like that....it's more how you describe it when I've seen it....your big guys trying to move the pile into the QB.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I like the concept..........uhhhhhhh Coughlin has issues with it though LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I HAVE seen it before. I've seen it in college a lot more...but it happens....you just don't have the dudes flopping to the ground en masse like that....it's more how you describe it when I've seen it....your big guys trying to move the pile into the QB.... I don't care if it happens in college, in the NFL at least, there is a culture that says when a team does a QB kneel down, the offensive players are going to be mailing it in. Now I can't say if thats right or not, but when you know the entire team is going to be going through the motions, you don't send your whole team in there. That can get people hurt, and if Eli or Snee or whoever comes away from that with a torn lig or a high sprain, we'd all be fucking jacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I HAVE seen it before. I've seen it in college a lot more...but it happens....you just don't have the dudes flopping to the ground en masse like that....it's more how you describe it when I've seen it....your big guys trying to move the pile into the QB.... I'm not disagreeing with you Storm, in any way. I was just pointing out that the reason we don't see it happen in the NFL is because it just doenst happen in the NFL. If there was really that slim of a chance for it to happen then I'm sure a lot of desperate coaches out there would of been atleast attempting it. If a coach wants to try it fine, go for it, it's not going to work but more power to you but what that Mr. College coach did wasnt trying to win the game it was trying to send his players into the knees of our O-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 take heart Virginia I think we will see them in the playoffs and we will crush them like a bug.......do what we did to Atlanta last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I don't care if it happens in college, in the NFL at least, there is a culture that says when a team does a QB kneel down, the offensive players are going to be mailing it in. Now I can't say if thats right or not, but when you know the entire team is going to be going through the motions, you don't send your whole team in there. That can get people hurt, and if Eli or Snee or whoever comes away from that with a torn lig or a high sprain, we'd all be fucking jacked. Hahaha, where is this "culture", you speak of? The culture in the NFL that I'm aware of is "Any Given Sunday" and "Play to the Whistle"...both apply to what the Bucs did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I'm not disagreeing with you Storm, in any way. I was just pointing out that the reason we don't see it happen in the NFL is because it just doenst happen in the NFL. If there was really that slim of a chance for it to happen then I'm sure a lot of desperate coaches out there would of been atleast attempting it. If a coach wants to try it fine, go for it, it's not going to work but more power to you but what that Mr. College coach did wasnt trying to win the game it was trying to send his players into the knees of our O-line. I agree. I like the idea behind what he did but the nature of it was what made it a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 You're trying to win a game, why would you just LET the other team get out of there with a W, down one score? Yeah, it's the "gentlemanly" thing to do but there are no gentlemen in the NFL.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Hahaha, where is this "culture", you speak of? The culture in the NFL that I'm aware of is "Any Given Sunday" and "Play to the Whistle"...both apply to what the Bucs did. Oh come on, everyone in the building knew the Giants would be taking the play off, that play to the whistle stuff is all fine and dandy, but it's cheap to hit players who you know aren't going to be prepared. It's like jumping offsides but hitting the qb anyway. It's just bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The Debacle of the Meadowlands Fire the GM, the HC............man the banner planes.........LOL WE should have been prepared for this snake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Oh come on, everyone in the building knew the Giants would be taking the play off, that play to the whistle stuff is all fine and dandy, but it's cheap to hit players who you know aren't going to be prepared. It's like jumping offsides but hitting the qb anyway. It's just bush. I'll be honest, I never understood why it isn't rushed more than it is. I mean you see teams busting their hump to get down the field up until the last second. I've seen the qb take some steps back after the snap and then fall down covered by the rb's. I think that makes more sense. Next time the Giants play the bucs, watch Eli dump it off to Bear Pascoe, who will go for 60 yards and the TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I'll be honest, I never understood why it isn't rushed more than it is. I mean you see teams busting their hump to get down the field up until the last second. I've seen the qb take some steps back after the snap and then fall down covered by the rb's. I think that makes more sense. Next time the Giants play the bucs, watch Eli dump it off to Bear Pascoe, who will go for 60 yards and the TD. I don't really disagree with doing it, I'd much rather see a couple hand offs just to make it more interesting, but my problem is attacking unsuspecting players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I don't really disagree with doing it, I'd much rather see a couple hand offs just to make it more interesting, but my problem is attacking unsuspecting players. Then I don't get why they even come on the field then, for that play, or why players and coaches treat it like a formality if you have to go out there for it. If you're going to make them run off 5 seconds, what kind of idiot goes out there unsuspecting? Seriously, it's a football field. If there were people on that o-line that were "unsuspecting" then we truly are lucky that TB didn't come away with a fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 And on another note, it is specifically mentioned in the rule book that a kneel down is no different than any other play during any other point of the game....there shouldn't be a player or coach out there unaware. If they are, Coughlin needs to stop whining to the media (I was shocked about this), arrive 5 more minutes earlier to practice, and sit down and look through the rule book himself before he sees himself having a Mcnabb "Durrrr, what's overtime" moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Storm, have you never seen a kneel down. Every single one end with the olinemen playing it off, standing straight up. Nobody expects to be hit in that situation, I'm not saying it's right, but thats the culture. Watch every kneel down from the last 25 years and I doubt you'll find a situation like that more than once or twice. It's just how the game is, like it or not, and until there is a rule change you'll likely go another 25 years without seeing it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 And on another note, it is specifically mentioned in the rule book that a kneel down is no different than any other play during any other point of the game....there shouldn't be a player or coach out there unaware. If they are, Coughlin needs to stop whining to the media (I was shocked about this), arrive 5 more minutes earlier to practice, and sit down and look through the rule book himself before he sees himself having a Mcnabb "Durrrr, what's overtime" moment. This is a stupid argument. Of course everyone knows it's not illegal to do that, but unless the Giants were to be the only team to fire off the ball on a fucking kneel down, they were unsuspecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The Patriots in Superbowl 42 didn't act like faggots when the Giants took a knee. Well, that and half the team walked off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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