Not to be negative, but...

[Allstarjim]

I'm really thinking that this game might be a loss for us. First, it's the Dallas home opener, so you know the place is going to be ridiculously loud and raucous. But my main concern is all the injuries. What particularly pisses me off is Aaron Ross' injury. I don't know who to blame, but Ross f'ing rushed back to practice before he was completely healed and re-injured the hammy in that practice. He had NO FUCKING business being out there practicing for a fucking preseason game, at that, and now we are missing him for the second straight regular season game. That hamstring is on Coughlin. I don't mean to sound like Jack, but when guys are hurt in fucking preseason, you have to say to yourself... IT'S PRESEASON! Let's sit them down, look at the young kids, and get him 100% healthy for the regular season opener. If Ross had sat down, not only would he have been 100% healthy for this game, he would've been ready to go in the Washington game as well.

 

And the thing that pisses me off further is that we have two banged up safeties, and only 1 reserve safety who by the way SUCKS, and there were good safeties cut that could've been a good fit here. We have Michael Johnson with a bum shoulder and Kenny Phillips (once again PRACTICING on a limited basis) with a bum knee that may or may not need surgery if it doesn't respond well to treatment.

 

There is no reason to fucking use up guys in the preseason and tear up their bodies so that they have to play real games less than 100% and possibly exacerbate their injuries.. Next thing you know we have guys on injured reserve and they are DONE. No Chris Canty has a injured calf and won't play, after struggling through preseason on a bad hammy. Could the calf injury be because he was compensating for the hamstring? Probably.

 

With Canty not playing this week all we have is Bernard at DT to rotate in. Where is the depth now? Of course, Tuck slides inside on passing downs so we probably will be ok so as long nobody else gets hurt.

 

Danny Ware is gone for awhile and I understand in his case injuries do happen. But God help the Giants if Jacobs or Bradshaw get hurt in this game. Already I've seen Jacobs not really go full throttle and suspect that he's already playing with a dinged up knee.

 

 

So to sum it all up we have 2 injured safeties who will probably be playing at less than 100%, a starting corner out and another corner in Dockery who will probably make a go at less than 100%. Then we have a thin DT rotation and we are supposed to go in and beat the Cowboys in their home opening stadium debut on national television.

 

Sorry for the pessimism (I'm usually not like this) but I don't know if we pull this one out.

[Tempest]

Injuries happen and I wouldn't use that as an excuse for losing a game. Aaron Ross thought he was ok and it turns out he still wasn't ready. He could have sat all preseason and then come up lame on the first game of the season, or play horribly because he wasn't in football shape. I don't blame anyone for Ross or Canty being hurt, rather have this dealt with now rather than later.

[Mr. P]

[fringe]

[fishgutmartyr]

[Treehugger]

It's just gonna make the win that much sweeter.

[Gman329]

I know what Jim is saying. Yes, I believe we are a better team than Dallas but this is a tough spot - opening their new stadium, with a banged up secondary & D Line, still unsettled at LB, Eli & receivers still getting used to each other, Nicks out.......

 

Put it this way: it's a bigger game for Dallas, because if they don't win in this situation, they are in DEEP trouble.

 

Giants, good as they are right now, are very much a work in progress. If you are the opposition, the earlier in the season you can play them, the better....because they are going to get better as the season progresses.

[Allstarjim]

Injuries happen and I wouldn't use that as an excuse for losing a game. Aaron Ross thought he was ok and it turns out he still wasn't ready. He could have sat all preseason and then come up lame on the first game of the season, or play horribly because he wasn't in football shape. I don't blame anyone for Ross or Canty being hurt, rather have this dealt with now rather than later.

 

 

Actually, Aaron Ross DID NOT think he was ok. He was playing hurt, he knew it, he was trying to tough it out and the coaches should've told him to sit down. It was August 25th, the final practice of training camp. To top it off, it was the fucking 2nd play of team drills that day (but he did practice on a limited basis the previous day, but not before the 24th). He clearly wasn't ready to go. This is from Ralph V's blog entry on August 25th:

 

Ross re-injures hamstring

UPDATE 11:08 a.m.: With quotes from Aaron Ross

 

What would the last training camp practice be without one final injury?

 

Cornerback Aaron Ross, making a valiant attempt to come back from a strained left hamstring, re-injured the muscle on the second play in team drills this morning. He was covering WR Steve Smith on a deep pass when he crumpled to the ground, grabbing his left leg.

 

Clearly he wasn’t happy. He let out a loud yell and a bad word that rhymes with “luck.”

 

“The poor kid can not get beyond that,” Tom Coughlin said. “He keeps working his way back. He obviously made a sudden move to catch back up to a receiver that was going by him. Very frustrating. Because he’s not had, really, a lot of time on the field.”

 

Coughlin had no immediate update on Ross’ condition, but said the corner would be sent to “do all the tests.” He had to be helped off the field by trainers, apparently unable to put weight on his left leg. He was able to stand on the sidelines and walked up and down very gingerly and with a limp.

 

After a while, though, he was carted back to the locker room before practice ended.

 

“It felt like someone shot me,” Ross said. “It was cramping in three different places.”

 

Coughlin had thought Ross was finally behind his hamstring issues and that his comeback was going well.

 

“He went a couple of days,” the coach said. “Then all of a sudden he couldn’t go.

“Aaron, over the course of his career, has had mild strains from time to time. But nothing like this.”

 

Ross didn’t know when he’d be able to return to the field.

 

“Hopefully, it won’t take more than 18 days,” he said. “The first game is in 19 days.”

 

Here's another of Ralph's entry from August 19th where once again, he was doing too much on the hamstring too soon!

 

Ross' hamstring still not right

Aaron Ross had his pads back on this morning, but he sounded like he won’t be putting them on again for at least a little while.

 

The Giants cornerback, who has been nursing an injured hamstring and missed Monday night’s preseason opener, said he could tell something wasn’t quite right during this morning’s light practice. So he won’t practice this afternoon and will be cautious about when he practices again.

 

“I’m torn between trying to get out there and rush myself back and practice, or rush myself and hurt it even more,” Ross said. “I’m sort of torn between that. I tried it today, but I can tell I wasn’t 100 percent. Maybe not even 80 yet. So I’ll get treatment. I still have four more practices to go. I’ll try to limit myself from taking a big risk and hurting it even more. So I’m going to just do what I can, staying safe, and seeing where it goes from there.”

 

Ross said he had an MRI on his hamstring and the doctor told him it was fine, but “I still needed to do some work on it.” In other words, there were no tears, but it obviously wasn’t quite ready for him to go full speed.

 

For what it’s worth, Ross said “I know I’ll be ready for Week 1” but he didn’t sound like he’d be ready for the Giants’ second preseason game, in Chicago on Saturday night.

 

Instead of "working his way back, he should've been told to sit until he's damn sure that it feels good. Then after that, sit for another couple of days, then after that, do some light jogging and see how it responds. You don't jump back in there on a balky hammy and start sprinting off the jump in practice. There are some injuries you can play on and work back, a hamstring is not one of them, you HAVE to let it rest and rest some more, and slowly get the strength back in it before going full go. Coughlin or his staff allowed him to go in there too soon and he fucked it up even worse. I hope this time they've learned their lesson and they are bringing him back slowly, because we need a healthy Ross.

[JMFP]

For the Giants to win this game, Eli will need to be more than just a game manager, and the Giants front four will need to make up for their thin secondary.

[Nas]

Jim, why blame Coughlin when the responsiblity of staying in top shape, including stretching properly, rests with the professional athlete. Trust me I know what a torn the fuck up hammy feels like. I remember the first time I did it, the doc in the ER said stay off it.. no ifs ands or buts about.. don't even stretch it.. don't do shit to it for 3 freaking weeks... sure enough I did.. and on that third week.. I went clubing.. went to an afterparty.. then left that to play a full game of football in all 3 phases of the game.. and 2 minutes before the end.. guess what.. I tore it the fuck up again.. I learned from that.. my doctor was right and he sure didn't expect me to go ape shit as soon as the 3 weeks is over... to make a long story short.. these athletes need to stretch and be disciplined enough to heal their bodies.. it's their only job.... It's not like they have to play football then go to work in some other job to support their family. If Ross keeps this up, expect his days in blue to be numbered... Canty too... I don't understand for the life of me why ANYONE would begin the season on the injury list.. but that's just me.

[Allstarjim]

Jim, why blame Coughlin when the responsiblity of staying in top shape, including stretching properly, rests with the professional athlete. Trust me I know what a torn the fuck up hammy feels like. I remember the first time I did it, the doc in the ER said stay off it.. no ifs ands or buts about.. don't even stretch it.. don't do shit to it for 3 freaking weeks... sure enough I did.. and on that third week.. I went clubing.. went to an afterparty.. then left that to play a full game of football in all 3 phases of the game.. and 2 minutes before the end.. guess what.. I tore it the fuck up again.. I learned from that.. my doctor was right and he sure didn't expect me to go ape shit as soon as the 3 weeks is over... to make a long story short.. these athletes need to stretch and be disciplined enough to heal their bodies.. it's their only job.... It's not like they have to play football then go to work in some other job to support their family. If Ross keeps this up, expect his days in blue to be numbered... Canty too... I don't understand for the life of me why ANYONE would begin the season on the injury list.. but that's just me.

 

The responsibility to manage existing injuries rests ultimately with the coaches, as well as the medical staff and team trainers. Particularly when you are talking about a player who already was coming back from that injury to his hammy, the TRAINERS are the ones responsible to make sure that thing gets stretched out and taken care of. Does the player have some say... SURE, but they don't get to decide 100% when they are healthy enough to go, because then stuff like this happens. You just don't listen to the player's word all of the time, because the player will almost always overstate how good they are feeling. Ross' hamstring had ALREADY kept him out of most of camp. He rushed back, as Ralph V's blogs prove.

 

The onus was on the coaches to slow him down and say, "Aaron, you are a starter on this team and too important to our defense to let you rush getting back on the practice field in preseason. We're going to sit you down and rest you for a couple more days, because only 5 DAYS AGO, you said your hammy was not 100%, maybe not even 80%, and we don't want to risk you re-injuring it." Which he did ALMOST IMMEDIATELY when he participated in team drills on the 25th of August. You just have to slow these guys down sometimes and take care of them because they don't know how to do it themselves.

[mastershake]

I wouldn't worry too much Jim. if it is a loss, it's only week 2. Not only that, we'll play them again.

 

The gmen are playing, most likely, with a seconday of 7DB's, three of whom have injuries, and another is an undrafted rookie.

 

On the positive side, dallas played, in my perspective, an awful Bucs team, with an aging defense and secondary, and a marginal offense that still scored 21 points and put up a ton of yards on the dallas D. I think their real weakness is their D, especially in the secondary. If Byron Leftwich can tear them up, so can Eli. Plus I doubt the giants excellent front 7 will give Romo any of the time he had last Sunday.

[JackStroud]

football games are won in the trenches

 

our trenches are far stronger than their trenches

 

this will be a cakewalk

[Allstarjim]

football games are won in the trenches

 

our trenches are far stronger than their trenches

 

this will be a cakewalk

 

 

Yeah right! Remember the Wills? We had those guys, our pass rush was good and our secondary was below average. Even before Corey Webster really started coming on, and we had Sam Madison in there starting, we had problems. I'm not worried about Williams. I think Corey will do a great job on him. I'm not even worried about Crayton, because I think Terrell Thomas will do well against him. I'm worried about Austin Miles and Sam Hurd... guys that will line up in the slot and go against a Kevin Dockery who is not 100%. I'm worried about our ability to cover Witten as well.

 

A team who is GREAT in the trenches but bad in the secondary will get exposed in the NFL. I agree with your premise here, Jack, but a phrase needs to be added on to the end... football games are won in the trenches, with all other things being equal. I think we're going to have some trouble on Sunday night and I hope I'm wrong. For the record, I picked the Giants straight up in a pool.

[Nas]

Yeah right! Remember the Wills? We had those guys, our pass rush was good and our secondary was below average. Even before Corey Webster really started coming on, and we had Sam Madison in there starting, we had problems. I'm not worried about Williams. I think Corey will do a great job on him. I'm not even worried about Crayton, because I think Terrell Thomas will do well against him. I'm worried about Austin Miles and Sam Hurd... guys that will line up in the slot and go against a Kevin Dockery who is not 100%. I'm worried about our ability to cover Witten as well.

 

A team who is GREAT in the trenches but bad in the secondary will get exposed in the NFL. I agree with your premise here, Jack, but a phrase needs to be added on to the end... football games are won in the trenches, with all other things being equal. I think we're going to have some trouble on Sunday night and I hope I'm wrong. For the record, I picked the Giants straight up in a pool.

 

Well I guess this game will us whether we deserve to be on top or near the top of power rankings everywhere. Every team got injuries and part of the team's strength is overcoming those. I really hope we win this game just given the circumstance... Dallas' first home game in front of over 100k fans.. on national television. Get up or go home.

[Allstarjim]

Well I guess this game will us whether we deserve to be on top or near the top of power rankings everywhere. Every team got injuries and part of the team's strength is overcoming those. I really hope we win this game just given the circumstance... Dallas' first home game in front of over 100k fans.. on national television. Get up or go home.

 

 

I agree, but injuries do play a factor. And there are some injuries you just can't recover from. Right now however, our team has more injuries than most around the NFL. What particularly worries me is Kenny Phillips' knee, which Coughlin says they will have to manage throughout the year. That tells me this thing is not going to be 100% all year long. So hypothetically, if CC Brown is our starter instead of KP, are we a weaker team? Yes. Injuries have definitely derailed our season before and staying relatively healthy is actually a pretty critical part of having a successful season.

 

I've heard it so many times that it is becoming cliche, that good teams overcome injuries. I think that's true to an extent, but NO team can overcome injuries to certain personnel, and every team has a threshold of how many injuries they can sustain and still reasonably expect to win or even field a competitive team. People say not to use injuries as an excuse, but many times the injury bug can be the precise reason a team fails to win. When we lost Luke Petitgout to a broken leg in 2006, it derailed our season because he was our LT, and our offense was NOTABLY less effective with his replacement, who was a turnstile for defensive ends on their way to Eli Manning's blindside.

 

Last year, our offense completely crapped the bed after Plaxico shot himself. And we lost Osi before the season started, which reduced our capacity to take on additional injuries.

 

It is so important to control the things you can control with respect to injuries and keeping guys healthy. That's why the Ross injury pisses me off so much, because his, more than anyone else's was entirely preventable. A few extra practices in preseason is not worth losing him for these regular season games. And KP's knee, as I said, really troubles me.

[Gman329]

football games are won in the trenches

 

our trenches are far stronger than their trenches

 

this will be a cakewalk

 

 

And of course, Vegas knows nothing, which is why Dallas is favored.

[Nas]

I agree, but injuries do play a factor. And there are some injuries you just can't recover from. Right now however, our team has more injuries than most around the NFL. What particularly worries me is Kenny Phillips' knee, which Coughlin says they will have to manage throughout the year. That tells me this thing is not going to be 100% all year long. So hypothetically, if CC Brown is our starter instead of KP, are we a weaker team? Yes. Injuries have definitely derailed our season before and staying relatively healthy is actually a pretty critical part of having a successful season.

 

I've heard it so many times that it is becoming cliche, that good teams overcome injuries. I think that's true to an extent, but NO team can overcome injuries to certain personnel, and every team has a threshold of how many injuries they can sustain and still reasonably expect to win or even field a competitive team. People say not to use injuries as an excuse, but many times the injury bug can be the precise reason a team fails to win. When we lost Luke Petitgout to a broken leg in 2006, it derailed our season because he was our LT, and our offense was NOTABLY less effective with his replacement, who was a turnstile for defensive ends on their way to Eli Manning's blindside.

 

Last year, our offense completely crapped the bed after Plaxico shot himself. And we lost Osi before the season started, which reduced our capacity to take on additional injuries.

 

It is so important to control the things you can control with respect to injuries and keeping guys healthy. That's why the Ross injury pisses me off so much, because his, more than anyone else's was entirely preventable. A few extra practices in preseason is not worth losing him for these regular season games. And KP's knee, as I said, really troubles me.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you. The responsibility for staying healthy, although shared by the coaching staff and the medical team, rests on the player. During the off-season for example, they should be working on those things.. getting them healed.. and in the case of chronic quads/hamstrings.. getting in gear with weekly yoga classes.

[JackStroud]

And of course, Vegas knows nothing, which is why Dallas is favored.

 

Vegas adjusts the odds to keep the bets even on both sides......are you like really really naive or un-informed?

[Gman329]

Of course they do - and this line has not budged.

 

But the point of my post was to suggest that anyone who really believes this game will be a cakewalk is......yes, naive or uninformed.