What would you rather see happen

[BleedinBlue]

Don't get me wrong VG....I'd love to have Hall on our team. I just do not want to see the Giants give up a first round pick. This draft is ridiculously stacked so our first rounder will tab a great youngster. Now....if the Giants could pull off a deal that did NOT involve giving up our first round pick and we could sign him for a deal similar to the Samuel contract with the Eagles, I'd be all for it.

 

The way I see it....we are pretty well set on offense. The only possible position upgrade we should be going for is a good left tackle. Where we are thin is in the middle of the defensive backfield. We definitely need a safety (or two) and at least one linebacker and it would be nice to get a young stud DT to groom as a replacement for Robbins. If Rodgers-Cromartie was sitting there on the board....he'd be a great pickup. A lot of analysts believe Kenny Philips (the lone stud safety) will be on the board when the Giants pick...as well as Conner or Rivers - the two stud linebackers.

 

Regardless....I'd love to see Hall on the team. Just don't want to make him the highest paid player on the team and don't want to give up that first rounder. If the Giants could pull off a deal that kept the cost reasonable, I'd be thrilled to death.

[fishgutmartyr]

I never thought we needed Briggs. And I like what Sam Madison gives us (as much a player-coach as anything else); so I'm not all that obsessed with Hall. I think we're OK with corners, especially if Webster has truly gotten his head out of his ass and keeps playing as well as he did in the post-season.

 

I'd rather draft a safety and get an older safety through FA (like Knight, as is rumored) to mentor our young players. I think it helps the youngsters when you do that--ask Gibril if playing around Brent Alexander helped him--bet he'd say yes.

 

If we draft wisely as we have the last few years, we should be fine. After all, Gibril was a 5th rounder in 2004 (so was Erik Coleman, for that matter), and Johnson was 7th, so there will be opportunities.

 

Linebackers? We need backups, not starters. Kiwi was doing well at LB at the time he was injured, and I don't think he's going back to DE. Wilkinson was chomping at the bit to get in this season, based on his play when he did get on the field. Tuck has shown he can hold his own on the line (and what an understatement that is). Alford looks like he'll develop into an inside threat, something we haven't really had for a looonnnggg time.

 

Let's take the hit in FA this year, get the comp picks for next year, and do some trading up next year if there are players we want. The only starter we are going to lose without a replacement on our team is Gibril, and the potential to get ahead of the game is incredible. Spend the cap money on our guys this year.

 

I know this free agency has been boring, but it's been the good kind of boring in that we don't really have that many holes that need filling. We're not one player away, we're already there.

[Nesta]

Let me ask some questions to you guys who are salivating over Hall.

 

1) How many superbowl teams were built around a cornerback? Please come up with some figures that proves a cornerback put a team in the superbowl.

 

2) The term "shutdown" corner sounds impressive....but it's only a hyped up word used by fans that hints that a player is just so great that he will simply shut down every single pass play. Not too reasonable to think one guy can cover the entire field....not to mention, Hall has been burned plenty of times in his career. You must look at the actual stats. Now I have to admit, that if a cornerback played all 16 games and never once was a pass completed to a guy he was covering and the corner actually intercepted nearly every pass intended for the reciever he was on....then I'd say, "yup, that's a shutdown corner". What makes Hall a "shutdown" corner, but not someone like Samuel? Where is the "demarcation" line between "shutdown" and "solid"?

 

3) Hall has averaged 4.25 interceptions and 50 tackles a year (that's approximately 1 interception per 4 games and 3 tackles per game). At 10 million per year, that's a little over 2 million dollars per interception or 200,000 dollars per tackle. By comparison, Asante Samuel averages 8 interceptions per year (16 in the past 2 years) tying Champ Bailey in 2006 with 10 interceptions. By the way, Champ Bailey has averaged 80 tackles per year or roughly 30 more tackles a year than Hall. But no one is calling Champ Bailey a "shutdown" corner....just a damn good cornerback who made 6 million in 2006, and now makes nearly 8 million (wiht incentives).....2 million less than Hall wants without any incentives. Do we really want to pay that much?

 

4) Eli is our highest paid player at 45-54 million over 6 years. Justin Tuck is now signed for 5 years at 30 million. In essence, Eli is getting around 8 million a year and Tuck is getting 6 million a year. But getting back to Hall. He wants 10 million a year and a longer contract than any other Giants player.....that's more than Eli....that's more than Tuck and Osi combined. It's more than Shockey and twice the amount that Antonio Pierce (the true captain of the defense) makes....and in fact, is more than the entire defensive backfield makes combined. How will that effect the guys "that took us all the way to a superbowl win without him" to watch someone else make an incredible amount of more money than them?

 

When you spend that kind of money on a player, the outcome of nearly every single game MUST be contingent upon unrealistic play of the highest paid player on the team. After all....you build the team around the highest paid guy who is your star among stars.... Lebron James, Carmello Anthony, Kobe Bryant....etc.

 

How will the rest of the players feel in the coming seasons after they control the line of scrimmage and get a couple of sacks, pressure the shit out of the QB.....yet the guy on the team making twice what they make just had his 4th game in a row without an interception and got burned on a cutback play he should've seen coming?

 

Bottom line: YOU DON'T BUILD YOUR TEAM AROUND A CORNERBACK ----- YOU BUILD A TEAM AROUND THE TRENCHES AND THE QUARTERBACK-----THAT IS THE NUCLEUS OF THE TEAM.

 

5) Lastly.....first round draft picks are worth a ton in this day of parity football. It's the only way to put a potential pro-bowler on the team for 4 or 5 years for reasonable money. You don't give up multiple picks, including a first rounder for a decent cornerback who will be a prima donna on the team because he has the Bentley and tons more money than the rest of the players.

Sorry.....but giving up several draft picks (including our first rd) and then paying one guy more money than any other guy on the team just doesn't make any sense to me. It's a great thing to have a solid corner, I mean really, really nice.....but teams do not get carried into the superbowl on the backs of a cornerback.

Superbowl teams are rarely built around one person. Name one.

 

Like VG said no one's building anything here. It's built for the most part. We're talking remodelling. Our trenches are fine, our quarterback's fine. Wouldn't you agree?

 

And you can't make team decisions based on how players will react to one another's salaries.

 

Shutdown corners are not typically known for getting int's. That's because they take away an option for the quarterback and are thrown at much less than other corners.

 

[Virginia Giant]

Don't get me wrong VG....I'd love to have Hall on our team. I just do not want to see the Giants give up a first round pick. This draft is ridiculously stacked so our first rounder will tab a great youngster. Now....if the Giants could pull off a deal that did NOT involve giving up our first round pick and we could sign him for a deal similar to the Samuel contract with the Eagles, I'd be all for it.

 

The way I see it....we are pretty well set on offense. The only possible position upgrade we should be going for is a good left tackle. Where we are thin is in the middle of the defensive backfield. We definitely need a safety (or two) and at least one linebacker and it would be nice to get a young stud DT to groom as a replacement for Robbins. If Rodgers-Cromartie was sitting there on the board....he'd be a great pickup. A lot of analysts believe Kenny Philips (the lone stud safety) will be on the board when the Giants pick...as well as Conner or Rivers - the two stud linebackers.

 

Regardless....I'd love to see Hall on the team. Just don't want to make him the highest paid player on the team and don't want to give up that first rounder. If the Giants could pull off a deal that kept the cost reasonable, I'd be thrilled to death.

 

 

I just don't get the refusal to part with the last pick in the first round. Hall is 24, will be 25 in November. Thats a year younger than Ross. There is a "chance" we could draft an impact player with that pick, but the odds are way against getting a talent that has a shot at ever being as good as hall is right now and will be for year to come.

 

You're assuming he gets 10 mill a year, not going to happen. Samuel is regarded as the class of the league, more or less. (BTW, you say you wouldn't mind signing him to a deal similar to Samuels, he's getting 9.5). Clements gets 10 per year average. Hall will likely get 8.5 to 9.5.

 

He also won't be the highest paid Giant, at least for long. Osi will end up with a Freeney type contract probly. But that doesn't even matter.

 

 

As far as safety goes, the top 2 safties will be gone before we pick, then it drops off and maybe one guy in the second and then in the mid to late rounds the rest of the group.

[BleedinBlue]

I just don't get the refusal to part with the last pick in the first round. Hall is 24, will be 25 in November. Thats a year younger than Ross. There is a "chance" we could draft an impact player with that pick, but the odds are way against getting a talent that has a shot at ever being as good as hall is right now and will be for year to come.

 

You're assuming he gets 10 mill a year, not going to happen. Samuel is regarded as the class of the league, more or less. (BTW, you say you wouldn't mind signing him to a deal similar to Samuels, he's getting 9.5). Clements gets 10 per year average. Hall will likely get 8.5 to 9.5.

 

He also won't be the highest paid Giant, at least for long. Osi will end up with a Freeney type contract probly. But that doesn't even matter.

As far as safety goes, the top 2 safties will be gone before we pick, then it drops off and maybe one guy in the second and then in the mid to late rounds the rest of the group.

I agree somewhat with your reasoning, but virtually all the analysts (which many times doesn't mean jack) are saying Kenny Phillips (the best safety in the draft) will probably go in the early 2nd round. Not because he isn't good enough, but because the draft is deep and when looking at each team's needs....they will pass on a safety to keep from losing a cherry player to fill their biggest need.

 

I really hope we sign Knight so that we at least have a solid player at safety. If we signed Knight and Calvin Pace, I'd say, "go ahead and trade our first pick". But as long as the safety and linebacker positions are big question marks for the Giants this coming season, I can't see giving up the farm to sign a cornerback. And I know Johnson, Wilkenson, and Kiwi will be fine....but to have a good defense, there needs to be a constant rotation of fresh players and we have no starting safety and virtually no depth in linebacking. If we don't solve that problem, teams will kill us all season dumping off short passes. That's my biggest fear right now.

 

Even though the Giants have been very quiet in free agency so far....I do believe we'll pull off a couple deals at some point. I almost guarantee they'll reel in Knight. I'd be unable to stop whistling for days if they reeled in Pace, but that's probably a pipe dream.

[Virginia Giant]

I agree somewhat with your reasoning, but virtually all the analysts (which many times doesn't mean jack) are saying Kenny Phillips (the best safety in the draft) will probably go in the early 2nd round. Not because he isn't good enough, but because the draft is deep and when looking at each team's needs....they will pass on a safety to keep from losing a cherry player to fill their biggest need.

 

I really hope we sign Knight so that we at least have a solid player at safety. If we signed Knight and Calvin Pace, I'd say, "go ahead and trade our first pick". But as long as the safety and linebacker positions are big question marks for the Giants this coming season, I can't see giving up the farm to sign a cornerback. And I know Johnson, Wilkenson, and Kiwi will be fine....but to have a good defense, there needs to be a constant rotation of fresh players and we have no starting safety and virtually no depth in linebacking. If we don't solve that problem, teams will kill us all season dumping off short passes. That's my biggest fear right now.

 

Even though the Giants have been very quiet in free agency so far....I do believe we'll pull off a couple deals at some point. I almost guarantee they'll reel in Knight. I'd be unable to stop whistling for days if they reeled in Pace, but that's probably a pipe dream.

 

 

Well, if Kenny Phillips is there at 31, thats where we should go. I still lean towards trading for Hall and getting a safety in the mid rounds,. I agree get a veteran saftey, and I think there are some great safties that will be available on the second day of the draft,. Not immediate starters, but guys a couple years down the road that can be really good. Well, kinda like Gibril.

[fishgutmartyr]

I just don't get the refusal to part with the last pick in the first round. Hall is 24, will be 25 in November. Thats a year younger than Ross. There is a "chance" we could draft an impact player with that pick, but the odds are way against getting a talent that has a shot at ever being as good as hall is right now and will be for year to come.

 

You're assuming he gets 10 mill a year, not going to happen. Samuel is regarded as the class of the league, more or less. (BTW, you say you wouldn't mind signing him to a deal similar to Samuels, he's getting 9.5). Clements gets 10 per year average. Hall will likely get 8.5 to 9.5.

 

He also won't be the highest paid Giant, at least for long. Osi will end up with a Freeney type contract probly. But that doesn't even matter.

As far as safety goes, the top 2 safties will be gone before we pick, then it drops off and maybe one guy in the second and then in the mid to late rounds the rest of the group.

 

The draft is a crap-shoot in that college level success doesn't always translate to the NFL. Remember, we traded down to 32 when we got Kiwanuka. There will be talent at 31, just not necessarily at safety.

[boohyah]

Look at our situation here at the corners.

 

Ross is already established at one side as the starter.

 

Webster, IMO has earned the right to at least be heading into camp as the starter, and he'll have all preseason to prove he's a fluke or has come 180.

 

Now look at the backups, Madison, Dockery and McQuarters. I mean that's pretty solid depth right now. We'll probably look to get corner help on the first day of the draft.

 

All 5 of these guys in the playoffs were told that they sucked and were going to be picked apart by Joey Galloway, Terry Glenn, Terrell owens, Donald Driver and Randy Moss. And granted the d-line forced the quarterback to throw faster, but overall this lot came through big time. like 60 points in 4 games!.

 

That's a major confidence boost for all of them, don't think for one second they won't be feeling this going into the new season.

 

Now bring in a Hall, who just becomes a starter based on the fact he's getting paid the most. He's not a winner, he's been a malcontent and you bring him in a tell either Ross or Webster, "well we don't think you were good enough". That's a major slap in the face to these guys who just won a superbowl as opposed to a guy who's career highlight is flapping his gums.

 

The defense got hit in 2 other areas, safety ( are you guys sold on Butler??) and we've just lost 2 linebackers. Now for those that say "we've got Kiwi". What happens if Strahan retires?. That's a very big possibility right now. Kiwi may have to pay backup DE to Tuck and Osi.

 

Bringing in a Sammy Knight is a decent possibility and would help because of his experience. I'd rather overpay to get a Calvin Pace than D'angelo Hall right now. He'd be a much bigger help to us.

[fishgutmartyr]

The defense got hit in 2 other areas, safety ( are you guys sold on Butler??) and we've just lost 2 linebackers. Now for those that say "we've got Kiwi". What happens if Strahan retires?. That's a very big possibility right now. Kiwi may have to pay backup DE to Tuck and Osi.

 

Bringing in a Sammy Knight is a decent possibility and would help because of his experience. I'd rather overpay to get a Calvin Pace than D'angelo Hall right now. He'd be a much bigger help to us.

 

 

I totally agree with you about Hall and our corners, Boo.

 

I'm not sold on Butler as anything but a backup, but I am sold on Johnson. The more I'm reading about Knight, the better I feel, assuming we get him. According to Vacchiano, there isn't a big drop-off from Gibril. Using him for a couple of years, and drafting another safety to put in place in a couple years, seems to be the smart move. It seems to have worked with Madison, I don't see why it wouldn't work at safety.

 

Again, we need backup linebackers. Even if we shift Kiwi back to DE as a backup (a move I think would be a waste of talent), we still have DeOssie. Wilkinson isn't a kid anymore, and he has a year in Spag's system. Besides, with his speed he's a potential nightmare on a blitz. And for all we know, O'Neill might actually stick this year--wasn't he the kid that almost made it this year but for an injury? Absolutely draft a LB--even two. But I really don't feel the panic--I think we're good as far as starters are concerned.

 

Personally, I would rather draft a DE, pick another one up as UDFA, and see where we are. And we still don't know what is happening with Strahan, so this might all be moot.

 

 

[boohyah]

I totally agree with you about Hall and our corners, Boo.

 

I'm not sold on Butler as anything but a backup, but I am sold on Johnson. The more I'm reading about Knight, the better I feel, assuming we get him. According to Vacchiano, there isn't a big drop-off from Gibril. Using him for a couple of years, and drafting another safety to put in place in a couple years, seems to be the smart move. It seems to have worked with Madison, I don't see why it wouldn't work at safety.

 

Again, we need backup linebackers. Even if we shift Kiwi back to DE as a backup (a move I think would be a waste of talent), we still have DeOssie. Wilkinson isn't a kid anymore, and he has a year in Spag's system. Besides, with his speed he's a potential nightmare on a blitz. And for all we know, O'Neill might actually stick this year--wasn't he the kid that almost made it this year but for an injury? Absolutely draft a LB--even two. But I really don't feel the panic--I think we're good as far as starters are concerned.

 

Personally, I would rather draft a DE, pick another one up as UDFA, and see where we are. And we still don't know what is happening with Strahan, so this might all be moot.

 

I personally can't see DeOssie making that big of an impression yet Fish, I mean he never saw the field last year as a backup. O'neill should be backup material is he's healthy, and that's a big if.

[BleedinBlue]

I personally can't see DeOssie making that big of an impression yet Fish, I mean he never saw the field last year as a backup. O'neill should be backup material is he's healthy, and that's a big if.

I think Zak will make his statement in the future, but he is being groomed as the MLB, not an OLB. He is backing up Chase Blackburn and Antonio. I believe we are set at MLB position.

 

For our OLB's, we are depleted and far from being set. We have Torrance "Tank" Daniels and Kiwi on the strong side and only Gerris Wilkenson on the weakside. We need to carry a minimum of 6 linebackers into the season. Last year we went into the season with 7. We have no backup for Wilk and only Tank Daniels backing up Kiwi. And if Strahan retires, Kiwi will be seeing a lot of DE time.

 

We need to pickup at least 2 liebackers and probably 2 safeties if we are going to plug up the backside of the defensive line. Right now, the entire midsection of our defense is very soft and suspect, with the exception of Antonio. This is not a good situation and I find it hard to believe the Giants aren't shopping for a veteran linebacker as well as a veteran safety. If they fail to sign any veterans during free agency, it could mean a long season as untested rookies and first year starters take their knocks learning the game at the NFL level. Jason Witten will get 150 yds a game each time we play the cowboys - he could end up having a 200+ yard game (or two). This is a serious problem.

[fishgutmartyr]

I personally can't see DeOssie making that big of an impression yet Fish, I mean he never saw the field last year as a backup. O'neill should be backup material is he's healthy, and that's a big if.

I wouldn't want O'Neill as anything but backup. Wouldn't want DeOssie starting this year, either. But then again, I don't think Strahan is leaving this year, and I really don't think Kiwi is switching positions. I just think Strahan had too much fun last season, and if Reese sweetens the pot as well, he's staying. And he proved me wrong again: if he stays healthy, Strahan is still one of the better DEs in the game.

 

I think getting Tuck on the field fulltime with Kiwi would be the goal 2009. In the meantime, get Awasome-types as backups. I think 3rd down situations with Osi, Tuck, Kiwi, and Alford will be pretty damn formidable in the future. Wilkinson on a blitz or in coverage wouldn't be so bad, either.

[boohyah]

I feel myself that Zak deOssie is the latest version of Chase Blackburn/Nick Greisen to be honest.

 

By the way, Nick Greisen is available last I heard.

[boohyah]

I wouldn't want O'Neill as anything but backup. Wouldn't want DeOssie starting this year, either. But then again, I don't think Strahan is leaving this year, and I really don't think Kiwi is switching positions. I just think Strahan had too much fun last season, and if Reese sweetens the pot as well, he's staying. And he proved me wrong again: if he stays healthy, Strahan is still one of the better DEs in the game.

 

I think getting Tuck on the field fulltime with Kiwi would be the goal 2009. In the meantime, get Awasome-types as backups. I think 3rd down situations with Osi, Tuck, Kiwi, and Alford will be pretty damn formidable in the future. Wilkinson on a blitz or in coverage wouldn't be so bad, either.

 

You know, that kid Tolleson or whatever #71 was last year did a decent job in limited snaps.

[fishgutmartyr]

I feel myself that Zak deOssie is the latest version of Chase Blackburn/Nick Greisen to be honest.

 

By the way, Nick Greisen is available last I heard.

 

We need to see more of Zak to see where he is. Nick wasn't that bad for us, just not a starter.

[Virginia Giant]

Look at our situation here at the corners.

 

Ross is already established at one side as the starter.

 

Webster, IMO has earned the right to at least be heading into camp as the starter, and he'll have all preseason to prove he's a fluke or has come 180.

 

Now look at the backups, Madison, Dockery and McQuarters. I mean that's pretty solid depth right now. We'll probably look to get corner help on the first day of the draft.

 

All 5 of these guys in the playoffs were told that they sucked and were going to be picked apart by Joey Galloway, Terry Glenn, Terrell owens, Donald Driver and Randy Moss. And granted the d-line forced the quarterback to throw faster, but overall this lot came through big time. like 60 points in 4 games!.

 

That's a major confidence boost for all of them, don't think for one second they won't be feeling this going into the new season.

 

Now bring in a Hall, who just becomes a starter based on the fact he's getting paid the most. He's not a winner, he's been a malcontent and you bring him in a tell either Ross or Webster, "well we don't think you were good enough". That's a major slap in the face to these guys who just won a superbowl as opposed to a guy who's career highlight is flapping his gums.

 

The defense got hit in 2 other areas, safety ( are you guys sold on Butler??) and we've just lost 2 linebackers. Now for those that say "we've got Kiwi". What happens if Strahan retires?. That's a very big possibility right now. Kiwi may have to pay backup DE to Tuck and Osi.

 

Bringing in a Sammy Knight is a decent possibility and would help because of his experience. I'd rather overpay to get a Calvin Pace than D'angelo Hall right now. He'd be a much bigger help to us.

 

 

And if Webster proves he sucks in camp? You're good with Madison back at starter?

 

Why assume we couldn't get Hall, Knight and Pace? Or hall and Pace and draft a safety? Or Hall and Kight and draft a LB?

 

You guys act like all of our options are closed if we trade for Hall.

 

And as far as Halls character. Plax, no, fuck it I'm done bringing him up for now.

 

Moss was a malcontent, TO was the worst player in sports. Those two are regarded as the worst two football players as far as attitude, yet both their teams excelled and both kept their attitide in check.

 

Point is, winning has a way of shutting "malcontents" up. Take Moss from Oakland and put him ion the Pats and he's a team players.

 

If Reese is sitting there with the chance to trade the 31st pick in the draft and he doesn't pull the trigger because he concerned about Halls character, that'd be dumb.

 

[Nas]

I never thought we needed Briggs. And I like what Sam Madison gives us (as much a player-coach as anything else); so I'm not all that obsessed with Hall. I think we're OK with corners, especially if Webster has truly gotten his head out of his ass and keeps playing as well as he did in the post-season.

 

I'd rather draft a safety and get an older safety through FA (like Knight, as is rumored) to mentor our young players. I think it helps the youngsters when you do that--ask Gibril if playing around Brent Alexander helped him--bet he'd say yes.

 

If we draft wisely as we have the last few years, we should be fine. After all, Gibril was a 5th rounder in 2004 (so was Erik Coleman, for that matter), and Johnson was 7th, so there will be opportunities.

 

Linebackers? We need backups, not starters. Kiwi was doing well at LB at the time he was injured, and I don't think he's going back to DE. Wilkinson was chomping at the bit to get in this season, based on his play when he did get on the field. Tuck has shown he can hold his own on the line (and what an understatement that is). Alford looks like he'll develop into an inside threat, something we haven't really had for a looonnnggg time.

 

Let's take the hit in FA this year, get the comp picks for next year, and do some trading up next year if there are players we want. The only starter we are going to lose without a replacement on our team is Gibril, and the potential to get ahead of the game is incredible. Spend the cap money on our guys this year.

 

I know this free agency has been boring, but it's been the good kind of boring in that we don't really have that many holes that need filling. We're not one player away, we're already there.

 

While I'm in total agreement with your take here, I'm afraid we do have a few holes.. it's just that winning the Super Bowl makes us not see them. We can at least agree that our defensive backfield is our weakest spots right now.. Safety and CB.

[BleedinBlue]

While I'm in total agreement with your take here, I'm afraid we do have a few holes.. it's just that winning the Super Bowl makes us not see them. We can at least agree that our defensive backfield is our weakest spots right now.. Safety and CB.

I think we're okay at CB, but it would sure be nice to get some quality help. We're shit outa luck at safety and have no backups for linebackers....So safety and linebacker has to be our most pressing need.

[xxi-xxv]

DeAngelo Hall is better at this point and more established than any player that we would get at 31, the scary thing is he is as young as some of them(24).

 

If the Giants pull this off you just added a shut down corner to a devastating pass rush. Webster and or Ross could get double digit ints based simply on how often teams would be forced to throw at them. Hall is that good.

[boohyah]

And if Webster proves he sucks in camp? You're good with Madison back at starter?

 

Why assume we couldn't get Hall, Knight and Pace? Or hall and Pace and draft a safety? Or Hall and Kight and draft a LB?

 

You guys act like all of our options are closed if we trade for Hall.

 

And as far as Halls character. Plax, no, fuck it I'm done bringing him up for now.

 

Moss was a malcontent, TO was the worst player in sports. Those two are regarded as the worst two football players as far as attitude, yet both their teams excelled and both kept their attitide in check.

 

Point is, winning has a way of shutting "malcontents" up. Take Moss from Oakland and put him ion the Pats and he's a team players.

 

If Reese is sitting there with the chance to trade the 31st pick in the draft and he doesn't pull the trigger because he concerned about Halls character, that'd be dumb.

 

"You guys act like all our options are closed if we trade for Hall". Who's saying that? . Not me. i threw out a scenario.

 

TO and Randy Moss between them have no Superbowls. They've been playing in the league for a long time and have been on teams that have had serious title hopes, not once but several times.

 

As for Madison, no VG, I'm not. But what if we Trade for Hall and he sucks. What then?

 

 

 

[fishgutmartyr]

What is so horrible about Madison?

 

Granted, he's not going to see a pro bowl again, and I don't think he's ever going to do a full 16 game schedule, but he has done all right by us--and he's given us some space for our other backs to develop.

[Nas]

"You guys act like all our options are closed if we trade for Hall". Who's saying that? . Not me. i threw out a scenario.

 

TO and Randy Moss between them have no Superbowls. They've been playing in the league for a long time and have been on teams that have had serious title hopes, not once but several times.

 

As for Madison, no VG, I'm not. But what if we Trade for Hall and he sucks. What then?

 

Winning the SB is not the measure here. TO and Moss are great game-breaking athletes. VG is making a great point about us acquiring Hall... Moss was upset because Oakland sucked... Hall is the same way.. bring him to the Giants... an organization with character.. and a team solid with its leaders and he will play lights out.

[Virginia Giant]

"You guys act like all our options are closed if we trade for Hall". Who's saying that? . Not me. i threw out a scenario.

 

TO and Randy Moss between them have no Superbowls. They've been playing in the league for a long time and have been on teams that have had serious title hopes, not once but several times.

 

As for Madison, no VG, I'm not. But what if we Trade for Hall and he sucks. What then?

You are correct, neither Moss or TO have won a super bowl, the point was both of those head case malcontents towed the line for their respective teams this past season. And imo, Hall has never been as bad as either of those two guys.

 

 

There's nothing wrong with Madison, but he isn't someone I covering TO anymore. (addressed to Fish)

 

 

The odds of aquiring Hall and he sucking are very small. The odds of Webster reverting back to sucking are much larger.

 

 

It's not that I'm not happy with our secondary, if we go into the season with Ross and Web starting, I'll root for them and have some amount of faith Webster will continue his improvement. CB isn't our bigest need, I realize this. The point is Hall is an elite CB in this league, he is 24 years old and imho I think his attitude would be much improved with us for the simple fact we are proven winners with respected owners and good leaders on the defense. I think we can address the S and LB position economically through free agency and the draft and still trade our first and maybe 3rd picks for Hall.

 

I'm not saying sacrifice any part of the team by aquiring Hall, I don't feel we would be sacrificing anything.

[xxi-xxv]

DeAngelo Hall was a bad guy because he saw what everyone saw later in the season, his head coach was and is a jerkoff.

 

As for his attitude, the commisioner, who had instituted a "code of conduct" policy and is very sensitive towards he image of the league has Hall on a committee where he talks to young players and keys them in on how to act, agents, hanger ons etc. I have to assume a man who had basically told all the leagues thugs to knock it off or you are kicked out would not have a guy with such a bad character issue on his committee to educate young players.

[Herc]

i'd like to trade for hall, resign wilson and draft linebackers