IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS...

[Virginia Giant]

A well though out post indeed. I would only add this: Unlike the 2007 Giants, no one questioned the talent of the mid-90's Cowboys. Also, Irvin was the Cowboys leader and his off-field behavoir, as deplorable as it was, never really affected his ability to lead on the field, aside from when he was absent due to suspensions. When he played, he worked hard and played at a high level so the players were always behind him 100%. We may be disgusted by the fact that they would rally around criminals, and some of these players were criminals, but they did. Right or wrong.

 

What makes the Giants situation so interesting is that people are publically questioning both Eli's skills and his leadership abilities. And when it not only comes from the media, but spreads to former players, it makes you wonder whether everyone on the Giants team is really behind him, and how long they will stick with him if things go bad.

 

People may say I "badger" but can you blame me for being interested in the little soap opra that is bruing? Everyone is writing about it. And everyone has an opinion. Only in New York...

 

There is one question, however, I would like an honest answer to that I don't know I will ever get. Here it is:

 

Are the Giants fans that support Eli doing so because they really believe he is an elite QB, or is it that they feel they must support him because failure is not an option in light of how much the Giants gave up for him?

 

The Cowboys are lucky compared to the Giants when it comes to their QB. Romo is a lottery ticket, especially with Clevland's # 1 pick next season. If he fails, it's a wasted year and nothing more.

 

 

its funny, because the argument I always hear is why can't eli win with all the talent surrounding him. yet you say "Unlike the 2007 Giants, no one questioned the talent of the mid-90's Cowboys."

 

 

Also, Irvin was the Cowboys leader and his off-field behavoir, as deplorable as it was, never really affected his ability to lead on the field, aside from when he was absent due to suspensions.

 

Sorry, I just literally LOL'd.

 

 

 

Oh, and correction... And when it not only comes from the media, but spreads to former players, player.

 

 

The media questioned Peytons leadership too, and so did an ACTIVE player. thats seems to have worked out well for everyone but that one player. Also, i hear nothing but support from Eli's teammmates, of course, i know you will say thats just a team trying to rally behind their QB and hope for the best, they could nevere actually mean what they say.

 

I mean, i guess we will just have to envy the Cowboys confidence in their QB in refusing to give him an extension.

[boohyah]

A well though out post indeed. I would only add this: Unlike the 2007 Giants, no one questioned the talent of the mid-90's Cowboys. Also, Irvin was the Cowboys leader and his off-field behavoir, as deplorable as it was, never really affected his ability to lead on the field, aside from when he was absent due to suspensions. When he played, he worked hard and played at a high level so the players were always behind him 100%. We may be disgusted by the fact that they would rally around criminals, and some of these players were criminals, but they did. Right or wrong.

 

What makes the Giants situation so interesting is that people are publically questioning both Eli's skills and his leadership abilities. And when it not only comes from the media, but spreads to former players, it makes you wonder whether everyone on the Giants team is really behind him, and how long they will stick with him if things go bad.

 

People may say I "badger" but can you blame me for being interested in the little soap opra that is bruing? Everyone is writing about it. And everyone has an opinion. Only in New York...

 

There is one question, however, I would like an honest answer to that I don't know I will ever get. Here it is:

 

Are the Giants fans that support Eli doing so because they really believe he is an elite QB, or is it that they feel they must support him because failure is not an option in light of how much the Giants gave up for him?

 

The Cowboys are lucky compared to the Giants when it comes to their QB. Romo is a lottery ticket, especially with Clevland's # 1 pick next season. If he fails, it's a wasted year and nothing more.

 

 

Egg, I think I can honestly say that including myself, the majority of Giant fans feel Eli can be a top QB. No-one can deny that there are times when Eli shows he has talent, but it's too sporadic obviously and he has to put it altogether. But all kidding aside, we think he can be the man. If he got to the level of Phil Simms for example, we'd be happy.

 

As for soap opera, no offense, but there wasn't a bigger soap opera in football last year than Romo. And honestly he's a decent QB, but nothing special and his pro bowl selection to me was ridiculous. I mean Egg, as I said before, if Bledsoe had to step up his game just a little for the rest of the season, then Romo never gets on the field. I just find it hard to understand all the hype all of a sudden behind a guy who took 4 years to get the job, and only got it cause they ran out of options.

[BadEgg]

its funny, because the argument I always hear is why can't eli win with all the talent surrounding him. yet you say "Unlike the 2007 Giants, no one questioned the talent of the mid-90's Cowboys."

Also, Irvin was the Cowboys leader and his off-field behavoir, as deplorable as it was, never really affected his ability to lead on the field, aside from when he was absent due to suspensions.

 

Sorry, I just literally LOL'd.

Oh, and correction... And when it not only comes from the media, but spreads to former players, player.

The media questioned Peytons leadership too, and so did an ACTIVE player. thats seems to have worked out well for everyone but that one player. Also, i hear nothing but support from Eli's teammmates, of course, i know you will say thats just a team trying to rally behind their QB and hope for the best, they could nevere actually mean what they say.

 

I mean, i guess we will just have to envy the Cowboys confidence in their QB in refusing to give him an extension.

 

When I say they are questioning the 2007 Giants' talent, I really meant they are questioning Eli.

 

I can't blame you when you laugh about the Irvin suspension comment, but, to be more specific, I believe he was only susended once (7 games at the beginning of 1 year) and his first game back he caught a 60+ yard TD pass. I also think they made the playoffs and he was a big part of that. He always played at a high level.

 

As far as what Eli's teamates are saying publically, the only way we will know the truth is if Eli struggles at some point during the season, and they lose games because of it. Will the team rally or will it implode?

 

As far as Romo goes, I like the fact that they did not give him an extension. I believe he will be a good QB and I am rooting for him. But Jerry should make him earn it. And I have faith that if Romo plays at a high level, Jerry will find a way to get him signed.

 

30 Runs last night? They should spread that over a week, and pick up 5 or so wins.

[Virginia Giant]

When I say they are questioning the 2007 Giants' talent, I really meant they are questioning Eli.

 

I can't blame you when you laugh about the Irvin suspension comment, but, to be more specific, I believe he was only susended once (7 games at the beginning of 1 year) and his first game back he caught a 60+ yard TD pass. I also think they made the playoffs and he was a big part of that. He always played at a high level.

 

As far as what Eli's teamates are saying publically, the only way we will know the truth is if Eli struggles at some point during the season, and they lose games because of it. Will the team rally or will it implode?

 

As far as Romo goes, I like the fact that they did not give him an extension. I believe he will be a good QB and I am rooting for him. But Jerry should make him earn it. And I have faith that if Romo plays at a high level, Jerry will find a way to get him signed.

 

30 Runs last night? They should spread that over a week, and pick up 5 or so wins.

Of course you like it, if they gave him a 10 year 252 million dollar extension you'd like that as well. fact is you were very clear in saying the Cowboys were comoftable/pleased with their QB situation, when everything that jones has (hasn't) done points otherwise. Fact is even Jones knows Romo is at the very best a decent QB and he didn't want to sign him to a big contract because the fdans were suddely excited about him. Eli's option was bought because he has shown, several times, that he can be among the best QB's in the game, they realize consistancy is what he has lacked and understand that comes with experience and he will become a consistantly great QB.

 

 

 

 

Now, as for the team of the 90's 9Boys). i have nothing against irvin as a player, he's one of the greats. I am actually a very big fan of Aikman, the only playuer i really disslike (goes beyond disslike) is Emmitt. But Boohyah's point is very valid. The giants have tons of talent, so thats not a question. You want to question Eli's ability? fair enough, but you simply cannot reason that Eli will aflter yet romo will prevail. The math just doesn't work out, if you see a championship caliber QB in Romo but not Eli, you're looking through blue and silver star glasses.

 

 

 

 

 

[BadEgg]

Of course you like it, if they gave him a 10 year 252 million dollar extension you'd like that as well. fact is you were very clear in saying the Cowboys were comoftable/pleased with their QB situation, when everything that jones has (hasn't) done points otherwise. Fact is even Jones knows Romo is at the very best a decent QB and he didn't want to sign him to a big contract because the fdans were suddely excited about him. Eli's option was bought because he has shown, several times, that he can be among the best QB's in the game, they realize consistancy is what he has lacked and understand that comes with experience and he will become a consistantly great QB.

 

Now, as for the team of the 90's 9Boys). i have nothing against irvin as a player, he's one of the greats. I am actually a very big fan of Aikman, the only playuer i really disslike (goes beyond disslike) is Emmitt. But Boohyah's point is very valid. The giants have tons of talent, so thats not a question. You want to question Eli's ability? fair enough, but you simply cannot reason that Eli will aflter yet romo will prevail. The math just doesn't work out, if you see a championship caliber QB in Romo but not Eli, you're looking through blue and silver star glasses.

 

I hear what your are saying but I don't think I have been as definative as you describe. I question Eli's ability. I don't think he is progressing fast enough in some areas. That's just my opinion. I think Romo can be a good QB. He is convincing me. But I don't know if he is a championship caliber QB. What I believe is that the only way to evaluate Romo fairly is to put an offensive line in front of him that blocks. They didn't block last year, and it cost Beldsoe his job and contributed to Romo's problems at the end of the year. I want to see if Romo makes the correct decisions and throws accurately when he has time. Then, if he performs consistenly at a high level, I want them to give him the $. But if he makes poor decisions, or inaccurate throws, when he has the time to throw, I want them to find a better QB.

 

As far as Jerry goes, no one can say for sure what he is thinking. But I don't think anyone has capped Romo's upside as being just "decent." If Jerry believed that the best Romo could be was just "decent" I think the Cowboys sign Quinn instead of Spencer. I think Jerry wants more information from which to evaluate Romo, and believes, as I do, that Romo earned the opportunity last season to be the unchallenged starter for 1 year. So you bring in Brad Johnson instead of Brady Quinn, tell Romo there is no real competition and see what he can do when he is not looking over his shoulder. If Romo stay's healthy, and his supporting cast plays well, we should learn alot this year.

 

[BIGBLUE01]

Has Toni Romo worked a deal yet? If NOT....where's the "Dallas is happy with their QB situation" coming from?

 

 

LOL....eggy has to type longwinded posts, and the doff comes in and puts egg in his place by a mere few sentences.

 

[BadEgg]

LOL....eggy has to type longwinded posts, and the doff comes in and puts egg in his place by a mere few sentences.

 

 

I said Cowboys fans are happy with their QB. Maybe I should qualify that by saying, to my knowledge, Cowboys fans are happy with their QB. By way of explanation, the fans do not get to draw up the contract and decide if the player stays. The owner or GM does that. Important distinction that the doff and Bigblue overlooked in his mere few sentences. I'm surprised by the Doff, I can't say the same for Bigblue.

 

Apparently, Jerry wants to see more before he gives Romo 25 million. Which, in my opinion, is prudent. You see, and try and stay with me, I can be happy with the QB and, at the same time, be happy that the franchise is not married to him and he is not counting 100 million against the cap.

[Lubeck]

Ok see if you can follow me Eggie my boy.

 

If you are happy with your QB, you should want him locked in to a long-term deal. Especially before he has a Pro Bowl season like you seem to expect. (BTW do you think he deserved PB last season?) If you are happy he is not locked into a long-term deal that shows misgivings about him as a player.

[BadEgg]

Ok see if you can follow me Eggie my boy.

 

If you are happy with your QB, you should want him locked in to a long-term deal. Especially before he has a Pro Bowl season like you seem to expect. (BTW do you think he deserved PB last season?) If you are happy he is not locked into a long-term deal that shows misgivings about him as a player.

 

This discussion is getting ridiculous. I don't necessarily believed that Romo deserved a pro bowl appearance and had McNabb remained healthy he certainly wouldn't have been there. That does not take away, however, what Romo accomplished.

 

He showed enough potential that I believe the Cowboys did the right thing in not signing Quinn. They also did a nice job of obtaining a safety net with Cleveland's top pick. I am happy with how Romo played, for the most part, last year, I like what I hear about how much he studies film and how hard he works in the offseason, and I think he looks sharp so far this year. But I think the Cowboys are prudent in waiting to lock him up. They can sign him later this year and, if it costs them more because he is playing at a high level, so be it. I have no problem spending more on a franchise QB. But you cannot call Romo a franchise QB until he plays more, with an offensive line that actually gives him time.

[BIGBLUE01]

This discussion is getting ridiculous. I don't necessarily believed that Romo deserved a pro bowl appearance and had McNabb remained healthy he certainly wouldn't have been there. That does not take away, however, what Romo accomplished.

 

He showed enough potential that I believe the Cowboys did the right thing in not signing Quinn. They also did a nice job of obtaining a safety net with Cleveland's top pick. I am happy with how Romo played, for the most part, last year, I like what I hear about how much he studies film and how hard he works in the offseason, and I think he looks sharp so far this year. But I think the Cowboys are prudent in waiting to lock him up. They can sign him later this year and, if it costs them more because he is playing at a high level, so be it. I have no problem spending more on a franchise QB. But you cannot call Romo a franchise QB until he plays more, with an offensive line that actually gives him time.

 

Yeah, we know, because you started it.

[randoff]

As far as Romo goes, I like the fact that they did not give him an extension

 

I have no problem spending more on a franchise QB. But you cannot call Romo a franchise QB until he plays more

 

I don't necessarily believed that Romo deserved a pro bowl appearance

 

I think Jerry wants more information from which to evaluate Romo, and believes, as I do, that Romo earned the opportunity last season to be the unchallenged starter for 1 year. So you bring in Brad Johnson instead of Brady Quinn, tell Romo there is no real competition and see what he can do when he is not looking over his shoulder.

 

[JayD]

Egg, I think I can honestly say that including myself, the majority of Giant fans feel Eli can be a top QB. No-one can deny that there are times when Eli shows he has talent, but it's too sporadic obviously and he has to put it altogether. But all kidding aside, we think he can be the man. If he got to the level of Phil Simms for example, we'd be happy.

 

As for soap opera, no offense, but there wasn't a bigger soap opera in football last year than Romo. And honestly he's a decent QB, but nothing special and his pro bowl selection to me was ridiculous. I mean Egg, as I said before, if Bledsoe had to step up his game just a little for the rest of the season, then Romo never gets on the field. I just find it hard to understand all the hype all of a sudden behind a guy who took 4 years to get the job, and only got it cause they ran out of options.

 

 

If he got the level of Phil Sims???????????? Brother, Eli has already beaten Phils best regular season stats, twice. If we didnt have the defense we had back then, most wouldnt know who Phil Sims was. Dont get me wrong, I got nothing but love for Phil. But Im setting the bar much higher for Eli. He Doesnt need to improve all that much to be considered a VERY good QB in this league.

[boohyah]

If he got the level of Phil Sims???????????? Brother, Eli has already beaten Phils best regular season stats, twice. If we didnt have the defense we had back then, most wouldnt know who Phil Sims was. Dont get me wrong, I got nothing but love for Phil. But Im setting the bar much higher for Eli. He Doesnt need to improve all that much to be considered a VERY good QB in this league.

 

 

Who gives a shit if he's beaten Phil's stats twice or twenty friggin times. Jay, here's the stats that count in football. Wins and losses, and points scored/against. nothing else. If you ask fans that have supported this team in the last 20-25 years and were asked who they could choose between Eli and Simms based on what Eli has done right now, most would pick Simms. Simms was a tough son of a bitch, and had a winning mentalty and played for Parcells when parcells was actually a coach and not a rent a coach. Guy had the biggest game of his career when they needed it the most. To say that if it wasn't for the defense, most would not know who Simms was, frankly pisses all over Simms career, you can't just make it better by then saying you have nothing but love for the guy in the next sentence.

 

And seriously Jay, as much as I think Eli has the tools to get to a higher level, there are other factors that have lead to the fact he hasn't gotten there. He actually has to improve quite a bit to get to be a very good QB. His accuracy has not been good, he doesn't go through his progressions fast enough and he's made some bad decisions at crucial times. These are all fixable, and if he does he can get a lot better very fast.

 

Nothing would make me happier if Eli stepped up and became the man, looked into the TV camera and said "happy now, Boohyah??". All I want is for this team to win.

 

 

[BIGBLUE01]

Who gives a shit if he's beaten Phil's stats twice or twenty friggin times. Jay, here's the stats that count in football. Wins and losses, and points scored/against. nothing else. If you ask fans that have supported this team in the last 20-25 years and were asked who they could choose between Eli and Simms based on what Eli has done right now, most would pick Simms. Simms was a tough son of a bitch, and had a winning mentalty and played for Parcells when parcells was actually a coach and not a rent a coach. Guy had the biggest game of his career when they needed it the most. To say that if it wasn't for the defense, most would not know who Simms was, frankly pisses all over Simms career, you can't just make it better by then saying you have nothing but love for the guy in the next sentence.

 

And seriously Jay, as much as I think Eli has the tools to get to a higher level, there are other factors that have lead to the fact he hasn't gotten there. He actually has to improve quite a bit to get to be a very good QB. His accuracy has not been good, he doesn't go through his progressions fast enough and he's made some bad decisions at crucial times. These are all fixable, and if he does he can get a lot better very fast.

 

Nothing would make me happier if Eli stepped up and became the man, looked into the TV camera and said "happy now, Boohyah??". All I want is for this team to win.

This line says it all!

[JayD]

Who gives a shit if he's beaten Phil's stats twice or twenty friggin times. Jay, here's the stats that count in football. Wins and losses, and points scored/against. nothing else. If you ask fans that have supported this team in the last 20-25 years and were asked who they could choose between Eli and Simms based on what Eli has done right now, most would pick Simms. Simms was a tough son of a bitch, and had a winning mentalty and played for Parcells when parcells was actually a coach and not a rent a coach. Guy had the biggest game of his career when they needed it the most. To say that if it wasn't for the defense, most would not know who Simms was, frankly pisses all over Simms career, you can't just make it better by then saying you have nothing but love for the guy in the next sentence.

 

And seriously Jay, as much as I think Eli has the tools to get to a higher level, there are other factors that have lead to the fact he hasn't gotten there. He actually has to improve quite a bit to get to be a very good QB. His accuracy has not been good, he doesn't go through his progressions fast enough and he's made some bad decisions at crucial times. These are all fixable, and if he does he can get a lot better very fast.

 

Nothing would make me happier if Eli stepped up and became the man, looked into the TV camera and said "happy now, Boohyah??". All I want is for this team to win.

 

Im aware that alot of fans would choose Sims over Manning so far. But thats only cause they are seriously misinformed. It took Sims 5 years to have his best year. Eli has beaten that twice already. There is just no denieing it. I in no way want to "piss" on Phill, Guy was a class act, and a warrior, but just go look at the stats, he was never a great QB, (accept in the superbowl game) and many years boarded on even beening good. The truth of the matter is we had one of the best defenses of all time during our superbowl runs, with a very effective power run game. If Eli had a top 5 defense (keep in mind, we went to the playoffs twice with one of the worst defenses in the league) we probably would have went to the superbowl last year. Why does Eli have to improve alot to be a good QB? Add 5% to his completions and he's over 60%, add 500 yards to his total for the year and he's over 4000. Add any more TD's and he still has scored more in a single season then any QB we have had since the 60's. Beating only HIMSELF. If you think Eli needs to dramaticly improve going into his 4th year, you would have been calling for Phil Sims head by his 4th year. And many were.

 

Im with you though, I to want nothing more than to win. It just pisses me off that people dont understand what a good QB we have. Im sure he will improve, and probably end up being the best QB we have ever had.

 

[BIGBLUE01]

Im aware that alot of fans would choose Sims over Manning so far. But thats only cause they are seriously misinformed. It took Sims 5 years to have his best year. Eli has beaten that twice already. There is just no denieing it. I in no way want to "piss" on Phill, Guy was a class act, and a warrior, but just go look at the stats, he was never a great QB, (accept in the superbowl game) and many years boarded on even beening good. The truth of the matter is we had one of the best defenses of all time during our superbowl runs, with a very effective power run game. If Eli had a top 5 defense (keep in mind, we went to the playoffs twice with one of the worst defenses in the league) we probably would have went to the superbowl last year. Why does Eli have to improve alot to be a good QB? Add 5% to his completions and he's over 60%, add 500 yards to his total for the year and he's over 4000. Add any more TD's and he still has scored more in a single season then any QB we have had since the 60's. Beating only HIMSELF. If you think Eli needs to dramaticly improve going into his 4th year, you would have been calling for Phil Sims head by his 4th year. And many were.

 

Im with you though, I to want nothing more than to win. It just pisses me off that people dont understand what a good QB we have. Im sure he will improve, and probably end up being the best QB we have ever had.

 

Agreed 100%

[boohyah]

Im aware that alot of fans would choose Sims over Manning so far. But thats only cause they are seriously misinformed. It took Sims 5 years to have his best year. Eli has beaten that twice already. There is just no denieing it. I in no way want to "piss" on Phill, Guy was a class act, and a warrior, but just go look at the stats, he was never a great QB, (accept in the superbowl game) and many years boarded on even beening good. The truth of the matter is we had one of the best defenses of all time during our superbowl runs, with a very effective power run game. If Eli had a top 5 defense (keep in mind, we went to the playoffs twice with one of the worst defenses in the league) we probably would have went to the superbowl last year. Why does Eli have to improve alot to be a good QB? Add 5% to his completions and he's over 60%, add 500 yards to his total for the year and he's over 4000. Add any more TD's and he still has scored more in a single season then any QB we have had since the 60's. Beating only HIMSELF. If you think Eli needs to dramaticly improve going into his 4th year, you would have been calling for Phil Sims head by his 4th year. And many were.

 

Im with you though, I to want nothing more than to win. It just pisses me off that people dont understand what a good QB we have. Im sure he will improve, and probably end up being the best QB we have ever had.

 

 

I understand we have a guy now who has the ability to be the best QB we ever had. I'll just agree to disagree with you on Simms.

[feefifoefum]

Bad Egg=needs banning.

 

BannedEgg?

[feefifoefum]

Has Toni Romo worked a deal yet? If NOT....where's the "Dallas is happy with their QB situation" coming from?

 

 

Preseason high hopes. They will fade after week 9 when it becomes clear why Romo was sitting on a bench for 4 seasons.

[Lubeck]

He would still be on a bench if a certain team didn't decimate a certain QB.

[BIGBLUE01]

He would still be on a bench if a certain team didn't decimate a certain QB.

 

 

I LOVE IT!!!! Good one Lubeck!

[feefifoefum]

This discussion is getting ridiculous. I don't necessarily believed that Romo deserved a pro bowl appearance and had McNabb remained healthy he certainly wouldn't have been there. That does not take away, however, what Romo accomplished.

 

He showed enough potential that I believe the Cowboys did the right thing in not signing Quinn. They also did a nice job of obtaining a safety net with Cleveland's top pick. I am happy with how Romo played, for the most part, last year, I like what I hear about how much he studies film and how hard he works in the offseason, and I think he looks sharp so far this year. But I think the Cowboys are prudent in waiting to lock him up. They can sign him later this year and, if it costs them more because he is playing at a high level, so be it. I have no problem spending more on a franchise QB. But you cannot call Romo a franchise QB until he plays more, with an offensive line that actually gives him time.

 

Sounds like Eli Manning. So, at this point, why should we be concerned, and you optimistic after 2 weeks of preseason football?