Fun fact

[BlueInCanada]

Over the course of this month the Giants have scored 38 points.

The Jets have scored 70.

Lol 

[bamf75]

Is fun translated differently in Canastan?

[mastershake]

In other words, the team sporting Sam Darnold, Frank Gore, and Crowder as top skill position players have scored nearly double what the Giants have, LOL.

Fire Dave Gettleman

 

[mastershake]

Here are some additional fun facts.

Giants offensive line, sacks surrendered by year.

Gettleman

2020: 48 (with 1 game to go)

2019: 43

2018: 47

Gettleman first three years, total sacks (with 1 game still to go): 138 sacks surrendered.

Reese

2017: 34

2016: 22 (interesting that the lowest sack total year is a 10 win playoff team)

2015: 27

Reese last three years, total sacks: 93

[Sephiroth]

Yeah like I said on the other thread, I'm on the fence about Getty but this is the third week in a row where the team hasn't looked even a little competitive. I'm leaning towards "fire him" again after this stinker... I turned it off after the three consecutive sack drive.

I think the Seattle game was their abberation, not our improvement. We haven't turned the corner at all.

[boohyah]

Still waiting on the "fun"

[mastershake]

1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

Yeah like I said on the other thread, I'm on the fence about Getty but this is the third week in a row where the team hasn't looked even a little competitive. I'm leaning towards "fire him" again after this stinker... I turned it off after the three consecutive sack drive.

I think the Seattle game was their abberation, not our improvement. We haven't turned the corner at all.

DG is going to have to pull a rabbit out of his hat to put together a team without significant gaps next year, with the OL being the likeliest place to have the gaps.

Problem is under Gettleman, 1) Our offensive line is as bad if not worse than it was three years ago, and 2) the cap situation he's gotten us into is so bad that he's not going to be able to fix it in one year, unless he gets really lucky with free agency and/or the draft. Even if he spends his cap/draft resources wisely and miraculously puts a decent OL out there next year, there will still be holes elsewhere (WR, DL, pass rush, CB). 

Also Barkley coming back isn't going to generate significantly more wins. Here's another fun fact: the giants have a LOWER winning percentage (34.7%) WITH Saquon Barkley over the last three years than they do when he hasn't played due to injury (37.5%)

You are what your record says you are. Three straight 10 loss seasons. Dave Gettleman sucks.

[BlueInCanada]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

DG is going to have to pull a rabbit out of his hat to put together a team without significant gaps next year, with the OL being the likeliest place to have the gaps.

Problem is under Gettleman, 1) Our offensive line is as bad if not worse than it was three years ago, and 2) the cap situation he's gotten us into is so bad that he's not going to be able to fix it in one year, unless he gets really lucky with free agency and/or the draft. Even if he spends his cap/draft resources wisely and miraculously puts a decent OL out there next year, there will still be holes elsewhere (WR, DL, pass rush, CB). 

Also Barkley coming back isn't going to generate significantly more wins. Here's another fun fact: the giants have a LOWER winning percentage (34.7%) WITH Saquon Barkley over the last three years than they do when he hasn't played due to injury (37.5%)

You are what your record says you are. Three straight 10 loss seasons. Dave Gettleman sucks.

The problem with any RB much like WR, is the position depends so much on Oline and QB play.

Bad Oline? There's only been on Barry Sanders who beat a bad Oline, much like WRs with bad QBs.

I wouldn't say our Oline is as worse as it was under JR, as so much as Eli was the QB, there's atleast two if not more sacks a game that Jones takes simply because he doesn't throw the check down or get the ball away. His eyes are glued downfield, it's why Barkley had more receptions with Eli than he ever has with Jones. 

To that point though yes the Oline is still as it bad as it was when DG first got here.

You can make the excuse that his first year he jettisoned what? 70% of the roster from JRs decision and we had a whole new Oline playing the year after but by now you need to start seeing results.

Thomas, Gates and Lemiouex are clearly the bright spots and the future at the group but we still need a RT and guard to replace Zeitler. 

It's going to be rough for anyone coming in to fix this roster DG has assembled and is probably going to be the reason why we sit in mediocrity for another 2 or 3 years after they move on from DG and the new GM takes over.

 

[mastershake]

My problem is not just that the OL is as bad as three years ago, but DG missed some clear opportunities to make the OL better.

Instead of bringing in Graham Glasgow or Bryan Bulaga, instead we got:

- Cam Fleming $3.7mm cap hit.

- Spencer Pulley $2.8mm cap hit.

- Levine Toilolo $3.3mm.

- Kyler Fackrell $4.6mm.

- Nate Ebner $2.0mm.

- Cody Core $2.0mm.

- Dion Lewis $1.5mm.

That's $20mm in precious cap space spent on these scrubs.

It's fucking madness.

Meanwhile, Bulagas's cap hit this year is $5mm, and Glasgow's is $6mm. We could have easily had both of these solid starting, veteran OL, and STILL had money for a few of the aforementioned group of scrubs who are currently doing jack shit for the team.

Instead of fucking Spencer Pulley and Toilolo, wouldn't you rather have Brian Bulaga???

DG is incompetent.

He's fucking INCOMPETENT

 

[BlueInCanada]

10 minutes ago, mastershake said:

My problem is not just that the OL is as bad as three years ago, but DG missed some clear opportunities to make the OL better.

Instead of bringing in Graham Glasgow or Bryan Bulaga, instead we got:

- Cam Fleming $3.7mm cap hit.

- Spencer Pulley $2.8mm cap hit.

- Levine Toilolo $3.3mm.

- Kyler Fackrell $4.6mm.

- Nate Ebner $2.0mm.

- Cody Core $2.0mm.

- Dion Lewis $1.5mm.

That's $20mm in precious cap space spent on these scrubs.

It's fucking madness.

Meanwhile, Bulagas's cap hit this year is $5mm, and Glasgow's is $6mm. We could have easily had both of these solid starting, veteran OL, and STILL had money for a few of the aforementioned group of scrubs who are currently doing jack shit for the team.

DG is incompetent.

He's fucking INCOMPETENT

 

However after this year, both contracts inflate to a total of 12+ million.

Also you're forgetting the signing bonus that each guy got. Their cap hit for the year was 5 million but they cost over 15+ million to sign due to the singing bonus.

I do agree, he should of went after one of them, but you basically blow your load on one guy, who then eats up more cap next year and is on the other side of his career, or you get a bunch of scrubs that will be off the team anyways.

lol either way it's a shit show that I wouldn't expect DG to handle.

[mastershake]

2 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

However after this year, both contracts inflate to a total of 12+ million.

Also you're forgetting the signing bonus that each guy got. Their cap hit for the year was 5 million but they cost over 15+ million to sign due to the singing bonus.

I do agree, he should of went after one of them, but you basically blow your load on one guy, who then eats up more cap next year and is on the other side of his career, or you get a bunch of scrubs that will be off the team anyways.

lol either way it's a shit show that I wouldn't expect DG to handle.

I agree getting one is more practical than getting both of these guys, and that subsequent years inflate. But I still think it's a far better investment versus the alternative of what DG dumped on us instead.

[mastershake]

Another point too. We could have more evenly balanced the contracts  instead of backloading them on those two guys, in order to afford them in future years as well.

Again, we didn't...and we instead got the aforementioned scrubs because DG is incompetent.

[BlueInCanada]

1 minute ago, mastershake said:

I agree getting one is more practical than getting both of these guys, and that subsequent years inflate. But I still think it's a far better investment versus the alternative of what DG dumped on us instead.

Yeah I agree.

Why he never went after a real starter at Oline I dont even know.

I understand A LOT of money went towards Bradberry and Martinez who are both worth it but I'm still salty over that shit show of the Williams trade.

What the fuck has Williams done this year besides just inflate his value to get over paid by some team this off season?

Imagine instead of using that 13 million for Williams we want and got Glasgow (whom was someone I wanted)

 

[BlueInCanada]

9 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Another point too. We could have more evenly balanced the contracts  instead of backloading them on those two guys, in order to afford them in future years as well.

Again, we didn't...and we instead got the aforementioned scrubs because DG is incompetent.

Not to many players in today's NFL want a back loaded contract.

Most contracts in the NFL are usually paid out in the first two years I believe I've read.

With most signing bonuses and what not pushed to the last year with less guaranteed money so that teams can cut a guy without having to worry about absorbing a massive cap hit. 

Both Bulaga and Glasgow got contracts that ramp up in year two and have outs after that.

I mean once again DG is the major reason why this team is the way it is but players now a days don't want balanced team friendly contracts because a single ACL tare can fuck the whole thing up.

DG still could of done more as you said instead of giving us fucking Ebner and Lewis lol 

Although I think Judge had a say with those guys.

 

 

[mastershake]

9 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Not to many players in today's NFL want a back loaded contract.

Most contracts in the NFL are usually paid out in the first two years I believe I've read.

With most signing bonuses and what not pushed to the last year with less guaranteed money so that teams can cut a guy without having to worry about absorbing a massive cap hit. 

Both Bulaga and Glasgow got contracts that ramp up in year two and have outs after that.

I mean once again DG is the major reason why this team is the way it is but players now a days don't want balanced team friendly contracts because a single ACL tare can fuck the whole thing up.

DG still could of done more as you said instead of giving us fucking Ebner and Lewis lol 

Although I think Judge had a say with those guys.

 

 

You're making the case for why the players would want a more balanced contract, and NOT a backloaded contract. Backloaded means the money is deferred to later years when the player could be cut.

[mastershake]

Another point too: Take a look at the 2018 draft. Which player isn't either injured right now, not on the roster, or only a backup?

And don't say Lorenzo Carter....he hasn't shown anything as well.

[Storm]

18 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Yeah like I said on the other thread, I'm on the fence about Getty but this is the third week in a row where the team hasn't looked even a little competitive. I'm leaning towards "fire him" again after this stinker... I turned it off after the three consecutive sack drive.

I think the Seattle game was their abberation, not our improvement. We haven't turned the corner at all.

They let him just resign and extend Logan Ryan for some reason, like safety was a pressing need that couldn’t have just been filled with a mid round pick or UDFA. My guess is that Gettleman isn’t going anywhere. You don’t give the current GM input on the next years roster this late in the season if you aren’t planning on keeping him.

[Sephiroth]

48 minutes ago, Storm said:

They let him just resign and extend Logan Ryan for some reason, like safety was a pressing need that couldn’t have just been filled with a mid round pick or UDFA. My guess is that Gettleman isn’t going anywhere. You don’t give the current GM input on the next years roster this late in the season if you aren’t planning on keeping him.

Unless it was a Judge decision.

[BlueInCanada]

6 hours ago, mastershake said:

You're making the case for why the players would want a more balanced contract, and NOT a backloaded contract. Backloaded means the money is deferred to later years when the player could be cut.

No players want a front loaded contract,I never said a player would want a back loaded one I made the point that teams want back loaded contracts.

Players want most of the money in the first two years or so.

That way then if the team happens to release then or they get hurt then it doesn't matter they still got the majority of the money.

No player wants a team friendly back loaded or balanced contract it just doesn't make sense with how physical the game is.

Look at Bradberrys contract 35 million of the 43 million are in the first two years.

[BlueInCanada]

52 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

Unless it was a Judge decision.

Yep I'm willing to bet Judge is going to have more input into player acquisitions next year as well.

Ebner was clearly a Judge pick up.

[mastershake]

1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said:

No players want a front loaded contract,I never said a player would want a back loaded one I made the point that teams want back loaded contracts.

Players want most of the money in the first two years or so.

That way then if the team happens to release then or they get hurt then it doesn't matter they still got the majority of the money.

No player wants a team friendly back loaded or balanced contract it just doesn't make sense with how physical the game is.

Look at Bradberrys contract 35 million of the 43 million are in the first two years.

That's what I mean. I think we're saying the same thing. Bulaga and Glasgow signed largely backloaded contracts, but we could have signed them without doing so.

[BlueInCanada]

22 hours ago, mastershake said:

That's what I mean. I think we're saying the same thing. Bulaga and Glasgow signed largely backloaded contracts, but we could have signed them without doing so.

See I think we are both saying different things but the same idea lol The majority of both their contracts are paid out on the first two years,their not back loaded since the teams can cut them easily after the second year.

Bulaga makes 22 of his 30 million his first two years and has an out in its final year if they cut him.

Glasgow makes over half of his contract his first two years, his dead cap this year alone is over 22 million.

The common thing both those guys have?

After two years they can be cut with almost no impact on their teams because all of the money has been front loaded.

If the Broncos cut Glasgow after 2021 it will only cost them 6 million.

If Bulaga gets cut after 2021 it will only cost the Chargers 3.3 million. 

What I was trying to get at is Gettleman signed multiple one year contracts this year to free up space next year since guys like Bradberry, Martinez and Solder are going to eat up a lot of cap space next year.

Plus we have to sign guys.

DG is awful at balancing the cap.

[BlueInCanada]

Both these guys are vets over 28 years old, no vet is going to sign a back loaded contract with all their incentive money pushed to a final year.

Is what I'm getting at.

Rookies or a second contract? Sure guys MIGHT push back guaranteed pay simple because they are young and have years left in the NFL.

But guys who are heading on the other side of their career like Bulaga and Glasgow want that cash up front so if they get hurt or a decline in pay the team simply can't cut them after the first year.

It's the same situation the Giants face with Solder this coming year.

Because he sat out all that guaranteed money got pushed back another year.

2021 was supposed to be an out year for Solder but now it's pushed back to 2022.

The Giants could cut him but he'll have like 13 million in dead cap still sitting in 2021.

[Iceman_NYG]

You can discuss Cap and choice of players and Glasgow and Bulaga and what not - but the fact of the matter is, we have NOT RECEIVED ANY QUALITY PLAY from the players we did sign. Thats all we were hoping for - for the players to be servicable and play well and that hasnt happened. It didnt happen with Flowers and so far hasnt happened with Thomas either. Martinez, Bradberry, Ryan etc have been stellar - but we have received pretty poor play from the players on the OL. And thats why we are constantly in rebuilding mode. Its not like we havent focused on trying to improve the OL - we have - the last few drafts we have focused heavily on it - the result has been zilch. Hernandez is looking more and more like a bust every day. Its just fuckall

[mastershake]

7 hours ago, Iceman_NYG said:

You can discuss Cap and choice of players and Glasgow and Bulaga and what not - but the fact of the matter is, we have NOT RECEIVED ANY QUALITY PLAY from the players we did sign. Thats all we were hoping for - for the players to be servicable and play well and that hasnt happened. It didnt happen with Flowers and so far hasnt happened with Thomas either. Martinez, Bradberry, Ryan etc have been stellar - but we have received pretty poor play from the players on the OL. And thats why we are constantly in rebuilding mode. Its not like we havent focused on trying to improve the OL - we have - the last few drafts we have focused heavily on it - the result has been zilch. Hernandez is looking more and more like a bust every day. Its just fuckall

Yep. I'm also not sure what people are seeing in Shane Lemuiex. He has some initial success, but the last month he's been bad. Same thing with Gates. If it were up to me this off-season, I'd sign and/or draft in the first round two interior lineman, preferably a Center included.

The interesting thing is Zeitler with a $14mm cap hit in 2021 (and $12mm in cap savings if we cut) is all but assured to be cut, so that is yet ANOTHER gap on the OL we'll have to fill.

Another thing too, I can't recall where I was reading this, but some scout or analyst was talking about Thomas and Peart saying Thomas with his strength but lack of agility and average length is better suited at RT, while Peart who is more athletic and longer is better suited for LT, yet Judge and Co have them playing on opposite sides. Perhaps we'll flip them next year?