Good article on Carter and how Graham could be his savior.

[BlueInCanada]

https://www.si.com/.amp-nygiants/nfl/giants/film/film-analysis-how-lorenzo-carter-has-been-misused-in-the-giants-defense?__twitter_impression=true&utm_source=reddit.com

TLDR version - Bettcher used Carter far to much as a drop back LB and used him rarely as an outside rusher, where he had success.

Graham likes to run wide 9 alignments on his edge rushers with the DTs lining up over the guards. This could be where Carter is at his best as an OLB rushing from the edge and being the force man on run plays.

 

[Mr. P]

I didn’t watch as many games this year. But how do you decide to use Carter that way?   
 

 

[CrazedDogs]

the inverse of that article could just as easily be true - is it that Carter wasn't being used to his strengths, or is it that he didn't have strengths to use? 

PFF had Carter's pass rush win rate at near the lowest in the league. So if he wasn't being asked to rush the passer very much, most likely that's because he wasn't very good at rushing the passer. 

that's the beauty of football though.... I've seen that go both ways.... sometimes a guy really IS being misused... 

[Mr. P]

8 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

the inverse of that article could just as easily be true - is it that Carter wasn't being used to his strengths, or is it that he didn't have strengths to use? 

PFF had Carter's pass rush win rate at near the lowest in the league. So if he wasn't being asked to rush the passer very much, most likely that's because he wasn't very good at rushing the passer. 

that's the beauty of football though.... I've seen that go both ways.... sometimes a guy really IS being misused... 

I guess my response to that would be,  I’m not sure I agree with “this guy is better at pass rushing than pass coverage, he’s not beating his man, so let’s just have him do the thing he’s worse at instead”. 
 

Doesn’t seem like the smart coaching move to me. 
 

 

I also wanna add, I don’t know where i saw it, it might be in the same article.  But when he was pass rushing,  Bettcher had him rushing from the interior often, which again doesn’t play to his strengths. 

[BlueInCanada]

9 minutes ago, Pdouble said:

I guess my response to that would be,  I’m not sure I agree with “this guy is better at pass rushing than pass coverage, he’s not beating his man, so let’s just have him do the thing he’s worse at instead”. 
 

Doesn’t seem like the smart coaching move to me. 
 

 

I also wanna add, I don’t know where i saw it, it might be in the same article.  But when he was pass rushing,  Bettcher had him rushing from the interior often, which again doesn’t play to his strengths. 

 

Yeah this article says when Carter is rushing from outside the tackle, he's at his best.

However Bettcher on the other hand had him rushing as a DT or the inside shoulder of the tackle more often then from the outside.

Also PFF is slowly ruining anything football related lol

 

[Mr. P]

Just now, BlueInCanada said:

 

Yeah this article says when Carter is rushing from outside the tackle, he's at his best.

However Bettcher on the other hand had him rushing as a DT or the inside shoulder of the tackle more often then from the outside.

Also PFF is slowly ruining anything football related lol

 

PFF.   To be honest, ever since a few years ago they graded Rodgers poorly after throwing like 5tds 0ints at some high percentage,  I don’t trust their grading. 

[CrazedDogs]

16 minutes ago, Pdouble said:

I guess my response to that would be,  I’m not sure I agree with “this guy is better at pass rushing than pass coverage, he’s not beating his man, so let’s just have him do the thing he’s worse at instead”. 
 

Doesn’t seem like the smart coaching move to me. 
 

 

I also wanna add, I don’t know where i saw it, it might be in the same article.  But when he was pass rushing,  Bettcher had him rushing from the interior often, which again doesn’t play to his strengths. 

no it certainly doesn't sound smart.... that's just one of those articles that we see a lot, so-and-so will be better because his last coach sucked...  and just as often as not the problem really wasn't the coach. 

[BlueInCanada]

2 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

no it certainly doesn't sound smart.... that's just one of those articles that we see a lot, so-and-so will be better because his last coach sucked...  and just as often as not the problem really wasn't the coach. 

I don't disagree, a second round pick should be able to produce and play.

I just also feel like Bettcher wasn't a good DC and he used a lot of players out of position.

I mean it took him 10 weeks to realize what type of CB Baker was and not play him in soft zone.

[mastershake]

I've been out of the loop. Has anyone said yet if we're going 3-4 or 4-3?

[Tempest]

24 minutes ago, mastershake said:

I've been out of the loop. Has anyone said yet if we're going 3-4 or 4-3?

Sticking with the 3-4 multiples look.

[Tempest]

On 2/14/2020 at 12:06 AM, BlueInCanada said:

https://www.si.com/.amp-nygiants/nfl/giants/film/film-analysis-how-lorenzo-carter-has-been-misused-in-the-giants-defense?__twitter_impression=true&utm_source=reddit.com

TLDR version - Bettcher used Carter far to much as a drop back LB and used him rarely as an outside rusher, where he had success.

Graham likes to run wide 9 alignments on his edge rushers with the DTs lining up over the guards. This could be where Carter is at his best as an OLB rushing from the edge and being the force man on run plays.

 

When Lorenzo Carter was in college they had him doing both.  When he was drafted, nobody was sure which one he could do better.  Here is another article to consider:

https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/film/why-lorenzo-carter-might-be-a-good-fit-at-inside-linebacker

Problem sounds like he still can't do either one better.

[BlueInCanada]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

I've been out of the loop. Has anyone said yet if we're going 3-4 or 4-3?

Graham ran both in Miami he hasnt stated anything solid other than whatever fits the "teams strength" and what the offense is doing. He likes to have the DEs/LBs stand out wide in a two point stance sometimes he brings them both basically a four man front other times he only brings three basically a three man front.

Offense comes out in a heavy set? Expect a four man line. They come out with multiple WRs Expect a three man line.

The Dolphins had one of the higher blitz rates last year as well 7th or something in the NFL over 40% of the time they bring an extra man. Also the DBs play a lot of man coverage with Graham calling the plays.

[BlueInCanada]

24 minutes ago, Tempest said:

When Lorenzo Carter was in college they had him doing both.  When he was drafted, nobody was sure which one he could do better.  Here is another article to consider:

https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/film/why-lorenzo-carter-might-be-a-good-fit-at-inside-linebacker

Problem sounds like he still can't do either one better.

Kinda shows how easy these sports pundits flip flop on everything.

October SI article "Carter isn't good at anything"

February SI article "Carter is a good pass rusher and was misused"

Lol

 

[mastershake]

12 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Kinda shows how easy these sports pundits flip flop on everything.

October SI article "Carter isn't good at anything"

February SI article "Carter is a good pass rusher and was misused"

Lol

 

They have to find something to write about and they're hoping we have short memories, lol.

[CrazedDogs]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

we're going 3-4 or 4-3?

"yes"

-DC Graham

[CrazedDogs]

54 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Problem sounds like he still can't do either one better.

he's a weird player. A smart dude who plays stupid. 

I think the case to be made for Carter isn't as much how he was used last year, it's that he's a high tool guy with much better than average smarts. If anybody has the chance to really develop into something special later in his career, its Carter. 

But I think he's played a lot of football already, so why isn't he getting it? Just not sure he's wired right to play the game with the intensity  required to compete in the NFL.

 

[Tempest]

15 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

he's a weird player. A smart dude who plays stupid. 

I think the case to be made for Carter isn't as much how he was used last year, it's that he's a high tool guy with much better than average smarts. If anybody has the chance to really develop into something special later in his career, its Carter. 

But I think he's played a lot of football already, so why isn't he getting it? Just not sure he's wired right to play the game with the intensity  required to compete in the NFL.

 

I think the problem is the Giants need a guy who can play in coverage and a guy who can rush the passer.  Carter can do both but at the expense of getting very good at one of them.  I can see where the writers point out his lack of pass rushing moves as a clear problem.  If he spends more time rushing the passer, he will develop more moves and refine his technique.

I would like to see Carter developed for his coverage skills over his pass rushing ability.  This should move him to the inside linebacker role.

[Tempest]

16 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Kinda shows how easy these sports pundits flip flop on everything.

October SI article "Carter isn't good at anything"

February SI article "Carter is a good pass rusher and was misused"

Lol

 

It was two different writers so they see Carter from two different aspects.  They both want Carter to have one role instead of two and disagree on which one of the two is more important and the role Carter would be better at.  Lorenzo Carter is not a bad player, if we two of him on the roster we would send one into coverage and the other after the passer.

[Iceman_NYG]

He needs to get into Yoga and deep meditation to get better - he just seems to be good at both but his head keeps fucking with him on what he should focus on.

[Sephiroth]

On 2/15/2020 at 11:17 AM, Pdouble said:

PFF.   To be honest, ever since a few years ago they graded Rodgers poorly after throwing like 5tds 0ints at some high percentage,  I don’t trust their grading. 

Two years ago they had Flowers graded as an "above average" tackle. 

[CrazedDogs]

PFF overall grades are garbage because they have no clue what any given player's assignment really was. But some (SOME!) of their more specific metrics are fantastic, when used in context.