Treehugger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I find it weird that TT is on so many lists when we just won a Superbowl without him and he's coming back from a twice-repaired ACL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I find it weird that TT is on so many lists when we just won a Superbowl without him and he's coming back from a twice-repaired ACL. I'd bet that since aaron ross is gone they think his being healthy and productive is of much importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I find it weird that TT is on so many lists when we just won a Superbowl without him and he's coming back from a twice-repaired ACL. Yeah, I agree. He was just that good though. Perfect player for the kind of D Fewell wants to play, or so it seemed to me. Although maybe that could be an artifact from the last time T2 was on the field, 2010, when Osi was the starting defensive end on T2's side of the field. There was an asymmetry to Fewell's schemes that season, where CWeb was in man coverage on the other side and could play back to the ball, knowing Tuck had the perimeter nailed down. While on the other side, T2 seemed to be playing zone behind the containment liability that is Osi on 1st and 2nd down. Got to love a corner that can come up and finish a runningback like T2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 I guess we are assuming TT will come back whole........if he does he is a pro bowl caliber player I liked Ross......sorry to see him go.......we should have made a play on that Saftey from Montclair State that everyone is raving about I think the Packers snagged him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Yeah, I agree. He was just that good though. Perfect player for the kind of D Fewell wants to play, or so it seemed to me. Although maybe that could be an artifact from the last time T2 was on the field, 2010, when Osi was the starting defensive end on T2's side of the field. There was an asymmetry to Fewell's schemes that season, where CWeb was in man coverage on the other side and could play back to the ball, knowing Tuck had the perimeter nailed down. While on the other side, T2 seemed to be playing zone behind the containment liability that is Osi on 1st and 2nd down. Got to love a corner that can come up and finish a runningback like T2. That's an interesting read on the D. Not sure I agree though. Personally I don't think TT is much of an improvement, if at all, over Ross in coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 That's an interesting read on the D. Not sure I agree though. Personally I don't think TT is much of an improvement, if at all, over Ross in coverage. I like T2's instincts better, he gets a better jam at the line, definitely a better tackler. Ross isn't a bad man cover guy, probably on par with Thomas. I just think T2 gives the D more options for playing the run because he doesn't need to be protected like most corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 What concerns me is we continue to bleed good players every year........maybe Ol Tom is still unbearable unless you are locked into a long term big money contract or are of little market value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 just a few weeks ago you were talking about how we know when to let players go and they never prosper after leaving the giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 just a few weeks ago you were talking about how we know when to let players go and they never prosper after leaving the giants. Thats true......taken out of the giants system few can make up the difference....but a guy like manningham or boss is valuable to us......I still dont know why we did not try to get Steve Smith back after the Eagles realized they moved too soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I like T2's instincts better, he gets a better jam at the line, definitely a better tackler. Ross isn't a bad man cover guy, probably on par with Thomas. I just think T2 gives the D more options for playing the run because he doesn't need to be protected like most corners. That's definitely TT's strength, though I still hate his open-field tackling technique, where he goes in for the shoulder hit, rather than trying to wrap up. It's cost us 1st downs in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 That's definitely TT's strength, though I still hate his open-field tackling technique, where he goes in for the shoulder hit, rather than trying to wrap up. It's cost us 1st downs in the past. Yeah, thats way too common, 'Wrap up' is first-day-of-practice level stuff. And you rarely ever see someone get hurt on a form tackle too. No reason for all the sloppy play in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 just a few weeks ago you were talking about how we know when to let players go and they never prosper after leaving the giants. name a leaver that has prospered in the last 10 years.......a lot of their success is based upon how they fit in our system and the players around them you go to another team you are usually going down to a lower support level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 That's an interesting read on the D. Not sure I agree though. Personally I don't think TT is much of an improvement, if at all, over Ross in coverage. That's exactly why he's on my list... he's filling Aaron Ross' shoes, and he needs to be at least as good as him coming back from this ACL. It's importance... the top 3 projected CB's on any depth chart on any team in the NFL should make the top 20 in order of importance, given the emergence of the passing game in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Okay, here's my official list.....I've already changed it a few times, and I'm sure after I post it, I'll edit it again.... 1. Eli 2. JPP 3. Corey Webster 4. Hakeem Nicks 5. Victor Cruz 6. Justin Tuck 7. Chris Snee 8. T2 (assuming he's at 100%) 9. Michael Boley 10. Antrell Rolle 11. Will Beatty 12. David Baas 13. Ahmad Bradshaw 14. Mathias Kiwanuka 15. Steve Weatherford 16. Kenny Phillips 17. Linval Joseph 18. David Diehl 19. Kevin Boothe 20. Prince Amukamara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Let the record show that this is a very good Jack Stroud thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osi724dasack Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Joe Kenny Phillips is ranked too low Without him our defense would collapse. There is no backup that can do his job at even half his level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Joe Kenny Phillips is ranked too low Without him our defense would collapse. There is no backup that can do his job at even half his level. It's tough finalizing the list.....I agree, KP was a big factor....really looking forward to seeing him this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osi724dasack Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 It's tough finalizing the list.....I agree, KP was a big factor....really looking forward to seeing him this season. Yea KP is so damn important. Very under the radar impact player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 Guess what......We are an impact team and everyone and his brother has us out of the playoffs this year and finishing behind Dallas and Philadelphia.......so what else is new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Instead of listing twenty, I'll just say "all the starters on both sides of the ball" and subtract the two I think are least important. Whoever ends up as the starting TE. Whoever the starting MLB is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 have a little respect for the man who added to the roster late in the season made the difference- Chase Blackburn WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO DO- make the All Pro Squad for a little RESPECT????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 have a little respect for the man who added to the roster late in the season made the difference- Chase Blackburn WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO DO- make the All Pro Squad for a little RESPECT????????????? I agree with Seph, except you'd have to include Hynoski as a starter on offense, and I think the nickel corner and 3rd WR will be more important than the starting fullback. I would also argue Weatherford is pretty important after we suffered through Matt Dodge and what an impact Weatherford made all through the season and the playoffs. The problem isn't that Blackburn isn't a good player. And this has nothing to do with last year, either. This is going forward. I respect Chase's game. I think he should be the starter. However, there's a good chance he'll only be on the field in 2 WR sets. There's also a chance that Rivers or Boley will take his place as starter. This is about next year. And even though I don't see it, Herzlich could end up being a factor at MLB as well. So, yeah, Chase was instrumental in turning the defense around last year, and we probably don't even make it to the Super Bowl if Reese and Coughlin didn't bring him back. But as far as importance, he's just not as important as other players, particularly now that we have Rivers. If Rivers proves to be a huge bust, or we have some attrition at linebacker, his importance will increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 I agree with Seph, except you'd have to include Hynoski as a starter on offense, and I think the nickel corner and 3rd WR will be more important than the starting fullback. I would also argue Weatherford is pretty important after we suffered through Matt Dodge and what an impact Weatherford made all through the season and the playoffs. The problem isn't that Blackburn isn't a good player. And this has nothing to do with last year, either. This is going forward. I respect Chase's game. I think he should be the starter. However, there's a good chance he'll only be on the field in 2 WR sets. There's also a chance that Rivers or Boley will take his place as starter. This is about next year. And even though I don't see it, Herzlich could end up being a factor at MLB as well. So, yeah, Chase was instrumental in turning the defense around last year, and we probably don't even make it to the Super Bowl if Reese and Coughlin didn't bring him back. But as far as importance, he's just not as important as other players, particularly now that we have Rivers. If Rivers proves to be a huge bust, or we have some attrition at linebacker, his importance will increase. Say what you like Jim but to say Chase is not a good player considering the field intelligence he brings, the INT's, fumble recoveries, and impact tackles is absolutely a Ludicrous statement..............I've said it before and will say it again, you need a guy with smarts, muscle, and pass D in the middle, and he has to have some lead in his pants 245plus to play that position to HURT people..........He will continue to prove you wrong over, and over ,and over again You dont need a greyhound at MLBer, you need someone with a Dick Butkus type body, and Dick Butkus type attitiude...........admittedly Chase is not 255 like Butkus, but he's a lot closer than the other LBers on the team Please do not not insult me with the cancer recovery victim...........Herzlich is a feel good story but so lost and ineffective out there last year he could not find his axx with both hands........sorry to seem callous but this is not the Dr Phil show.......its the Gladiator NFL, where blood is drawn on every play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Say what you like Jim but to say Chase is not a good player considering the field intelligence he brings, the INT's, fumble recoveries, and impact tackles is absolutely a Ludicrous statement..............I've said it before and will say it again, you need a guy with smarts, muscle, and pass D in the middle, and he has to have some lead in his pants 245plus to play that position to HURT people..........He will continue to prove you wrong over, and over ,and over again You dont need a greyhound at MLBer, you need someone with a Dick Butkus type body, and Dick Butkus type attitiude...........admittedly Chase is not 255 like Butkus, but he's a lot closer than the other LBers on the team Please do not not insult me with the cancer recovery victim...........Herzlich is a feel good story but so lost and ineffective out there last year he could not find his axx with both hands........sorry to seem callous but this is not the Dr Phil show.......its the Gladiator NFL, where blood is drawn on every play I agree with Seph, except you'd have to include Hynoski as a starter on offense, and I think the nickel corner and 3rd WR will be more important than the starting fullback. I would also argue Weatherford is pretty important after we suffered through Matt Dodge and what an impact Weatherford made all through the season and the playoffs. The problem isn't that Blackburn isn't a good player. And this has nothing to do with last year, either. This is going forward. I respect Chase's game. I think he should be the starter. However, there's a good chance he'll only be on the field in 2 WR sets. There's also a chance that Rivers or Boley will take his place as starter. This is about next year. And even though I don't see it, Herzlich could end up being a factor at MLB as well. So, yeah, Chase was instrumental in turning the defense around last year, and we probably don't even make it to the Super Bowl if Reese and Coughlin didn't bring him back. But as far as importance, he's just not as important as other players, particularly now that we have Rivers. If Rivers proves to be a huge bust, or we have some attrition at linebacker, his importance will increase. Dude. Take your time to understand what you're reading before you respond. I LIKE CHASE BLACKBURN. Always have. He's not going to be a guy who plays a lot of passing downs, though. Chase weighs 7 lbs more than Rivers. I have no idea why you are so caught up in Chase's weight, either. Herzlich weighs 4 lbs more. That's if the weight measurements on BBI are accurate, which they are probably not at this point. It has nothing to do with weight. And linebackers in this era need to be able to have quickness and agility. Last year Herzlich had all the size you could want at MLB, his problem is he couldn't change direction, and was neither fast or quick on his feet/change of direction. You may think all a MLB needs to do is be a big dude and stop the running back in the A gap, but you would be wrong. It's a passing league, and the MLB needs to be the best combination of run stopper and pass defender we can find. That might be Chase. I'm pulling for him. But it appears we may also have something in Rivers. And even if Chase wins the starting job at MLB (which I expect him too), he still will probably not be on the field in passing situations. The nickel defense will probably be a combination of Boley and Rivers or Boley and Williams. So because of that, he's not more important than the other guys I mentioned. That's not disrespecting him or his game that's just talking about importance to the defense. The nickel corner, for example, is going to have to make plays against receivers like Johnny Knox, James Jones, Jason Avant, or Lance Moore. The nickel corner might play more reps than our starting LB this year. And if the nickel corner gets burned, it's probably a TD unless he has safety help. Back in Butkus' era, yeah, the MLB would be a ton more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Then why is Chase making INTs 35 yds downfield and breaking up passes over the middle, and picking up fumbles downfield..........things the Midget Pierce NEVER could do Where did this impression Chase cannot move come from............he was a gunner on ST for years and years for goodness sakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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