Jump to content
SportsWrath

Name the top 20 Giants players in order of importance/performance

JackStroud

By JackStroud
in New York Giants

 Share

Recommended Posts

Allstarjim

Allstarjim

Posted
Posted

Then why is Chase making INTs 35 yds downfield and breaking up passes over the middle, and picking up fumbles downfield..........things the Midget Pierce NEVER could do

 

Where did this impression Chase cannot move come from............he was a gunner on ST for years and years for goodness sakes

 

Sigh.

 

Who is talking about Antonio Pierce? Other than you? And I did not say Chase couldn't move, either. For the love of God, dude. Just stop. I said he probably won't be in the nickel package. I'm sure at times he will be, and injuries might dictate that he has to be. But for the most part, it would be a terrible wager to bet that he'll be on the field in the nickel. For that very reason he's of less importance than guys that are 3 down players like JPP, Tuck, Webster, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fishgutmartyr

fishgutmartyr

Posted
Posted

Hey opinions are like "blank" everyone has one...........I'm going with the Giants and Blackburn this year......hopefully we do not have our usual after Lombardi fall off this time

 

ooooooooooooooooo....MADLIBS! I'll go with "spleens".

 

 

I don't know if I could name 20 essential guys on this team--we lost Beatty, and kept going; Thomas, and kept going (although the difference from last year to this year is the loss of Ross). Our oline is in too much flux and played too poorly last year to really say anyone on it is essential with the possible exception of Snee; and how do you rank Osi (pain in the ass that he is), who was an impact player in a part time role?

 

Eli

JPP

Tuck

Nicks

Cruz

Webster

Thomas (more for who do we replace him with, than what he brings--unless he's back to 2010 form)

Rolle (he played most of last year out of position)

Bradshaw (hopefully less-so with Wilson)

Phillips

Joseph

Canty

Osi

Boley

Kiwi

Blackburn (maybe)

Weatherford

Snee

Boothe

TIE:

Diehl (Is he the best at ANY position? No. But being able to play both right/left tackle sure comes in handy)

Mr. 3rd Wide Receiver

Mr. Tight End

 

See what I mean? you could easily stop at 15, and debate who is in that 15th slot. Once you start mentioning punters, your list is too long. Mr. 3rd Wide Receiver should probably be higher on the list, but how do you do that when you don't know who it is?

 

Then again, maybe the list is much larger/different with the younger linebackers and Akamura. Maybe Baas shows something. Austin suddenly blows everyone away. It's very early.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fishgutmartyr

fishgutmartyr

Posted
Posted

yes, apparently the Oline was particularly unimpressive in the Atlanta, GB, and Patriots games

we should can them all LOL

 

Wasn't there a game in San Fran, too? Wonder why you didn't mention that... :confused:

 

Come on, Jack. We had the worst rushing game in the league, and Eli was one of the most pressured QBs in the league. You're leaving homerism and entering denial.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JackStroud

JackStroud

Posted
  • Author
Posted

you're going to get a lot of pressure when you have the ball most of the game

 

SFO has a great team....I cosider them our only serious threat this year (in the entire NFL) but they have a serious pass deficiency

 

I thank Jacobs timidity and Bradshaws weak feet for that stat.....that plus we have become a passing offense, it worked out BTW in the end

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fishgutmartyr

fishgutmartyr

Posted
Posted

you're going to get a lot of pressure when you have the ball most of the game

 

SFO has a great team....I cosider them our only serious threat this year (in the entire NFL) but they have a serious pass deficiency

 

I thank Jacobs timidity and Bradshaws weak feet for that stat.....that plus we have become a passing offense, it worked out BTW in the end

 

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/average-time-of-possession-net-of-ot

 

We ranked 19th last season in offensive time of possession, having the ball on average for less than 30 minutes. That's a drop-off from the previous year, when we weren't in the playoffs at all. Worse, that's the offensive line's BEST stat.

 

Every statistical indicator, rushing yards, time of possession, and QB pressures, show what your eyeballs should have told you already--our offensive line was terrible last year. Diehl was ineffective as guard, Snee had an off season, MacKenzie had a nightmare of a season, and Baas never got into a groove with all the injuries.

 

If any ONE of these stats was poor and the others OK, then maybe your arguments would be understandable: yds/carry was low, but pressures were low too, for instance, would speak to poor RBs. High amount of pressures but decent running would mean Kurt Warner was still playing for us, etc. But when the line's best stat is a generous mediocrity, then it's the line. Again, in case your eyes didn't watch the right side of the line collapse consistently didn't tell you that already.

 

And yes, I do think the line will improve this year--I'm looking forward to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JackStroud

JackStroud

Posted
  • Author
Posted

You remind me of Amani Toomer

 

Get me the Stats for the games that counted at the end of the year.........the stats for the Playoffs, and SB, and then lets talk

 

Your doing significant Tommerism here......if you want to look at the whole body of work last year you're right....if you want to talk about playoffs and playoff conditions type games, even you would have to back off the Oline a bit

 

Look at the Packers, 15-1 yet in playoff conditions- we squashed them like a bug in front of their home crowd.....you do not do such things with a sub par line

 

If you cannot ratchet up your game significantly in playoff conditions.......you cannot do what we have done the last 4 years

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JackStroud

JackStroud

Posted
  • Author
Posted

yeah fish whats wrong with you, you're only supposed to look at stats from the good games.

 

not all of our playoff games are good ones.....going back a year or two we were not doing to well in the playoffs......my point is that in all sports you must have something extra to win a championship in PLAYOFF game conditions.....if you are a regular season wonder like NE and the Packers and are satisfied with that- great

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Allstarjim

Allstarjim

Posted
Posted

You remind me of Amani Toomer

 

Get me the Stats for the games that counted at the end of the year.........the stats for the Playoffs, and SB, and then lets talk

 

Your doing significant Tommerism here......if you want to look at the whole body of work last year you're right....if you want to talk about playoffs and playoff conditions type games, even you would have to back off the Oline a bit

 

Look at the Packers, 15-1 yet in playoff conditions- we squashed them like a bug in front of their home crowd.....you do not do such things with a sub par line

 

If you cannot ratchet up your game significantly in playoff conditions.......you cannot do what we have done the last 4 years

 

Wow, a good point from Jack.

 

However, Eli Manning endured a barrage of hits in that playoff game in San Francisco. He took their best shot and still drove a stake through their heart with that Manningham TD pass. That throw in that game, after the hits he took, one of the most heroic performances by a QB I've EVER seen. But the O-line definitely had some issues with S.F.

 

However, I think Diehl performed good enough down the stretch at LT, Baas improved mightily at C, Boothe was lockdown at LG. And the right side of the line had some issues, even in the playoffs, but Snee did well enough. Have to say after Diehl moved to LT McKenzie was the weakest link.

 

I'm with Fish, though. The O-line wasn't a strong point of the team. But there is reason for some optimism with McKenzie gone, Boothe now should be entrenched at LG where he played really, in my opinion, at a pro bowl level. And Baas, when healthy, has been very good. You have to like Beatty coming back, he's done a good job, and we'll see what happens at RT. I think Diehl can do it, and then there's an unknown with Brewer. Have to imagine a bounce back season from Snee, and if anything goes wrong on the interior you have a now, somewhat proven player in Petrus. The best thing about the line is that Eli can hide any deficiency with his on field smarts, with the possible exception of LT, which shouldn't be a major concern with Beatty coming back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JackStroud

JackStroud

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I think our Oline is lunchpail and more than adequate

 

A lot of teams would love to have them......using Jacobs so much early last year hurt our run production...he was going down with hand tackles

 

my only real concern is Baas.........we tend to give to much rope to guys with big free agent contracts....he performed poorly overall

 

as for SFO, it was a wet sloppy field (par for that course) the Dline has the advantage when you have to hold a block on a mud field

also SFO probably has the NFL's best pass rush after our own guys...they have some beasts...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fishgutmartyr

fishgutmartyr

Posted
Posted

You remind me of Amani Toomer

 

Get me the Stats for the games that counted at the end of the year.........the stats for the Playoffs, and SB, and then lets talk

 

Your doing significant Tommerism here......if you want to look at the whole body of work last year you're right....if you want to talk about playoffs and playoff conditions type games, even you would have to back off the Oline a bit

 

Look at the Packers, 15-1 yet in playoff conditions- we squashed them like a bug in front of their home crowd.....you do not do such things with a sub par line

 

If you cannot ratchet up your game significantly in playoff conditions.......you cannot do what we have done the last 4 years

 

Jack, they ALL count. We were one game from not making the playoffs, so yeah, our Oline should have had you worried last season. Yes, they did pick it up a little in the post season, but I think it was the defensive improvement that really was the lynch pin.

 

Even if you want to say they were "adequate," and since we won the SB, I suppose you could; you still have to worry about the number of hits Manning received last year. Tough as he is, how many seasons do you think he'll last if he's consistently rocked like he was last season?

 

But like I mentioned before, and Jim elaborated on, I do think they will improve this season. Snee had an off year, Baas will hopefully stay on the field a bit more, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JackStroud

JackStroud

Posted
  • Author
Posted

They all count but the Giants were a work in process when the season began, our 1st game was a mess......they are now a finished product

 

I expect them to terrorize the NFL this year..........from start to finish

 

BTW time of possession is not the end all be all for ball control.........we have great balance now- pass vs run, and since we are passing so much more our time of possession is suffering a bit......look at the total offensive plays vs opponents......that is a better indicator in a pass 1st league.....its not the good old Parcells days of TOP......also our Run D got much much better at the end of last year. I attribute it to Blackburn, you can decide for yourself why it happened.

 

If David Wilson turns out to be the next Ray Rice we will be near unstoppable

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fishgutmartyr

fishgutmartyr

Posted
Posted

They all count but the Giants were a work in process when the season began, our 1st game was a mess......they are now a finished product

 

God, I hope not...especially since we lost our RT from last year.

 

 

BTW time of possession is not the end all be all for ball control.........we have great balance now- pass vs run, and since we are passing so much more our time of possession is suffering a bit......look at the total offensive plays vs opponents......that is a better indicator in a pass 1st league.....its not the good old Parcells days of TOP......also our Run D got much much better at the end of last year. I attribute it to Blackburn, you can decide for yourself why it happened.

 

If David Wilson turns out to be the next Ray Rice we will be near unstoppable

 

Of course we threw more--we had no running game. That's not a balanced attack--that's using what's working. And I wasn't using time of possession in a vacuum, I was using it in conjunction with two other facts which coupled together would show a clear problem to most people.

 

An even better indicator in a pass-first league would be first downs--especially with a long-ball offense like ours. But you can't completely discount time of possession: not if you want to keep the oxygen tank bill reasonable for the defense.

 

You mean if Wilson turns out to be one of the best backs in the league we'll be unstoppable?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...