Post Draft Hangovers and Thoughts

[BleedinBlue]

Well....the draft is over and life goes back to normal. I'm still trying to digest everything that took place for the last three days. So I thought I'd throw out a few thoughts.

 

The biggest surprise to me was the sheer attention the Giants put on offense. I can't remember a time when the Giants focused so heavily on offense - 5 out of 7 picks were offense (has to be a Giant record). I think it's a sign that the front office thinks the defense doesn't need a lot of fixing, as well as they have tremendous confidence in Eli....so much so, that the draft was about getting him more options.

 

Another thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me.....was that the Giants made "need" picks rather than BPA. I get a kick out of the talking heads saying the Giants went for BPA and it just happened to be in positions of need. Bullshit - the Giants saw needs and then took the BPA for the position they felt was their biggest need while letting better players sit on the board because they didn't fill a need. BPA my ass!

 

Did anyone notice that the first three Giants' picks were on kids that are only 20 years old? I found that amusing. Then they finish the draft by picking a player who is 26 years old. Most 26 year olds in the NFL already have 4 years NFL experience under their belt. I'm sure that if Marcus Kuhn was 22, he'd have gone off the board much sooner as he appears to be an animal with ridiculous strength and tenacity in the mold of Petrus.

 

I am still suffering from shock that the Giants went for a RB in the first round. Don't get me wrong....I love the pick and think it was brilliant. It's just that it completely took me by surprise because I think of the Giants as a foregone conclusion that they will continue to stock pass rushers and both sides of the front line. I think David Wilson is going to become the go-to guy by the end of the season and that he will become an annual 1,000 yd+ guy while hauling in a lot of screen passes for another few hundred yards. He will have some fascinating moments this year and probably a few bonehead plays as he adjusts to the NFL type of play.

 

I'm thrilled with Reuben Randle and think that he will contribute right away. For me....that was the biggest shock and my most pleasant surprise in the whole draft. I'm sure that Jernigan and Barden want to rain on his parade and take the job away from him, but I doubt that will happen. I can't wait to see him on the field.

 

I wasn't all that thrilled with the pick of Adrien Robinson at first....mainly because I was so completely sold on Taylor Thompson as the sleeper in the draft and really, really wanted the Giants to grab him, and instead, they took someone I had never heard of. But after reading a lot of reports on the Robinson, I believe Pope and Eli can turn him into a game changing TE. I don't like the comparisons of him to JPP that I read all over the web because I believe all players are individuals with their own unique skill set and I hate it when a talking head says, "this guy reminds me of Lawrence Taylor", or "this guy is just like Darrell Green", or "this guy is the next Wes Walker", etc. JPP is special and no one in the world is like him. Hopefully, Robinson becomes a household name because of his own play making in the NFL and he gets his own reputation rather than someone else's.

 

I'm very intrigued with Jayron Hosley and wonder if it is a sign that the Giants have lessened their hope that Prince will ever live up to all the hype he recieved before coming to the NFL. I know that Prince was injured and got off to a slow start last year, but after getting back to health, he looked a little (completely sometimes) lost on the field and was hardly impressive. Hopefully, that has nothing to do with the Giants grabbing a CB with their 3rd pick. Regardless.....Hosley reminds me of a little guy with a huge chip on his shoulder. Kind of a cross between a wolverine and a bobcat. Nasty tackler and incredible ball hawking skills. I suspect he will play a lot this year and become a fan favorite. The talking heads are calling him a tenacious "slot corner", which I've never heard of such a position before and thought safties and linebackers were supposed to cover the slot. So I'm still learning about the game after nearly 60 years on planet earth as a football fan.

 

Mosley and McCants appear to be projects that will eventually work their way onto the O-Line. McCants looks as though he has an awful lot of upside and hopefully the coaches can groom him up to that part. Mosley appears to be a year away from getting his feet wet on the line, but has the potential to be a mainstay in the future.

 

Of the UDFA's, we should keep an eye on Janzen Jackson who could end up making the team, as well as Stephen Goodin (small school offensive lineman) who has the size (6'6" / 310 lbs) and ridiculous speed for such a big guy (4.90 - 40 yd), and strong (benched 403 lbs - squatted 604 lbs - and cleaned 393 lbs) and smart (3 time All-Academic conference) and will go on to medical school to become a doctor if he doesn't make it in the NFL. He was approached by every team in the NFL, but chose the Giants. If I've learned anything in my years as an NFL fan, oftentimes the greatest offensive linemen come out of the undrafted players pool. You heard it here first - keep an eye on that guy.

 

Overall....I like this draft. Especially considering where the Giants were sitting on the board. The first three picks by the Giants were simply phenomenal.

[Treehugger]

I don't know why everyone is being so hard on Prince, given the injury just days after signing and the clusterfuck that was Fewell's secondary scheme for most of the year. We lost one starting CB to free agency and the next guy up is recovering from a twice-repaired ACL. Thomas isn't going to be 100% for a while, just like it took Osi a full extra season to get back to form. I think Prince will be the starter opposite Webster by the end of the year and Hosley is insurance/competition for Thomas (who I don't rate as highly as everyone else on here anyway).

 

I agree that the Wilson pick, while good, wasn't BPA but I'd argue the rest were. WR and CB are not bigger needs than TE or OT or ILB (which Reese & Co must think we have the answer for on the roster already).

[Mr. P]

I was thinking last night, and I honestly think that Prince will lead the giants in interceptions next season and be in the argument for best CB on the team.

[BleedinBlue]

I don't know why everyone is being so hard on Prince, given the injury just days after signing and the clusterfuck that was Fewell's secondary scheme for most of the year. We lost one starting CB to free agency and the next guy up is recovering from a twice-repaired ACL. Thomas isn't going to be 100% for a while, just like it took Osi a full extra season to get back to form. I think Prince will be the starter opposite Webster by the end of the year and Hosley is insurance/competition for Thomas (who I don't rate as highly as everyone else on here anyway).

 

I agree that the Wilson pick, while good, wasn't BPA but I'd argue the rest were. WR and CB are not bigger needs than TE or OT or ILB (which Reese & Co must think we have the answer for on the roster already).

 

I certainly haven't given up on Prince. I've read two articles that suggest that the Giants faith in Prince isn't that strong and they believe made picking a CB so high was an indication of that. But that's just a couple of other guy's opinions and we all know what opinions are.

 

Tenacity in a player is very important and that is what they are wondering about Prince. It's the same intangible that caused Massie to fall as well as a few other highly hyped players that fell several rounds later than called by the "experts". Combine numbers and physical attributes do not measure a player's heart. Tenacity comes from the heart and that is why no one questions Hosley's tenacity.

 

Regardless.....I certainly haven't given up on Prince and I doubt the Giants are doing so either. Hell....I haven't given up on Barden, and I know you have. Barden broke Jerry Rice's all time college numbers and that can't be the mark of someone who can't play football.

[Allstarjim]

Yeah, Bleedin', it was a great draft for me. The one thing I will disagree with on your post is that I don't think the Giants let better players stay on the board for players that fit needs. I believe Reese when he says that guys like David Wilson and Rueben Randle were the top guys on their board. Yeah they fit a need, but they were also great players. I don't think they had other guys ranked higher. I believe that need was the tie breaker, if they had guys they felt were rated very close together or the same, they went with the need.

 

David Wilson is a guy very early on I researched and really liked. He was a guy that I lobbied for on this board. Early on I had Wilson as the top guy for us (while ignoring Richardson because I knew he'd be in the top 5 picks). When I first began researching this RB class, I had Lamar Miller, David Wilson, Doug Martin, and Isaiah Pead in that order. By the time I had finished my research, my list was Doug Martin, David Wilson, Lamar Miller, Isaiah Pead, and then Chris Polk, LaMichael James, were just part of the rest of the field, as I thought these first 4 guys were the best ones of the class. As mid-round to late round prospects, I liked Ronnie Hillman, Cyrus Gray, and Terrence Ganaway. If I had to put Richardson in there, he would've been right behind Martin on my board.

 

But basically, I felt we had to get Martin, Wilson, Miller, or Pead. And I'm glad we got one, and especially the one we did. Martin I felt was more NFL ready than Wilson, based on pass protection ability. But even then I knew Wilson was the best combination of power and explosiveness in this draft, and that makes me stoked we got him. I think Wilson is going to earn a role in the offense, but it will be a split that favors Bradshaw this year. But if the feet act up, Wilson could be counted on to be the lead guy. I feel like my evaluations were kind of validated with the way the draft shaked out for the most part. Some guys I didn't really like, such as Chris Polk, slid a long way, but it was a surprise that Miller slid to the 4th.

 

As you stated, the pick of the draft was Randle in the 2nd. As soon as New England took Casey Hayward with pick #62 I started the Rueben Randle chant with my wife looking at me like I was nuts. I can't believe he made it to our pick, and like Reese, I thought he was a guy that would go within the first 5 picks or so of the 2nd round. When it got to pick 50 I was thinking him being drafted was imminent. When Michael Strahan called his name, I did some serious fist-pumping, with my wife laughing at me. What a serendipitous turn of events, having that guy fall in our laps. He needs some polish, but this guy can be a star in the NFL.

 

Hosley was an interesting pick for me because I really didn't know much about him. I pretty much ignored the CB class year because I didn't think the Giants needed to get anyone at the position with Webby, T2, Prince, and the other guys we have for depth like Witherspoon, Coe, and Tryon. Hosley's pick means we're going to have to cut a pretty damn good corner to get down to 53 unless injuries make these guys a necessity like last year (let's hope not). The guy I kind of wanted was Ronnell Lewis, but thought that Bobby Massie or George Iloka would've been great picks as well. But as I said before, after getting Wilson and Randle, everything else was icing on the cake , but now that I've seen some film of Hosley I really see what the Giants scouting department saw in him. Great pick and in our division, and with the NFL becoming a more passing league, cover corners are a premium. I'm hoping to see some serious ball hawking. But I do think it's premature to suggest that he's going to jump Prince Amukamara. I'm still a fan of Prince and think he's going to do his thing this year.

 

Giants get their TE in the 4th, and I expected that they would get one, even though it wasn't the one that I thought it would be. Didn't know a lot about Robinson... I thought it would be nice to get Egnew, but he was taken in the 3rd, so with that off the table, I think the Giants got a real talent who very well could be a steal if he's athletic as everyone says. For a guy 6'4", to be at 265 means he's a thickly built guy who should be tough at the LOS and if he's as fast as he is, could be a great combo TE. Guys that size don't usually run 4.5's or 4.6's. So we shall see if Pope can turn his potential into great production, and I have every confidence in Pope.

 

The rest of the draft, just fine by me. I think we have a great chance to develop both the tackles, and as far as Kuhn goes, it's a meh pick. We have some players at DT with Linval, Canty, Austin, and Rogers, so I don't know if he can crack the final 53, probably a PS candidate.

 

But terrific draft, very excited about the first 4 picks.

[BleedinBlue]

Nice post Jim.

 

It's a luxury to go into the draft "reloading" a roster rather than "rebuilding". We have a lot of talented depth now.

 

Interesting that some of the mocks had us taking Chris Polk in our first round. Do you realize he didn't even get drafted? Apparantly, the Eagles signed him as an UDFA.

 

Even though we're in different corners of the world....I was pretty much mimicking you when I saw that N.E. didn't take Randle and that we might get him. I went nuts.

 

As far as Kuhn goes....Austin is still a question mark. Canty's knee might be a question mark, etc. But I agree.....Kuhn is probably practice squad fodder. There are a few intriguing things about him though and injuries before the first game always change the landscape for all positions. Hopefully, the Giants won't get devastated with injuries again this year.

[Nas]

Looking back.. it was very simple.. the team lost: Jacobs, Manningham, and Ross in the offseason... they drafted guys that would surpass each one of them imho. Drafting a CB has NOTHING to do with Prince and everything to do with Ross.

 

Having said that, and while I thought the Giants should have traded up to get Hightower, the draft (as someone on TV put it) is like a candy store.. "you can have this but you can't have that". I'm stoked about our first 3 pix.. Basically we replaced departing FA with very good rookies who will contribute in some form or another. I'm looking forward to Wilson's kickoff return as well as (grrr.. our 3rd rounder) punt returns... our ST sucked balls in that department and I think that was weighed in when drafting.

 

Beyond the 4th round I really can't say for sure... it's a crap shoot.

 

Edit: The Rookie TE could turn out to be the steal of the draft this year... I think his upside is huge.

[BleedinBlue]

Looking back.. it was very simple.. the team lost: Jacobs, Manningham, and Ross in the offseason... they drafted guys that would surpass each one of them imho. Drafting a CB has NOTHING to do with Prince and everything to do with Ross.

 

Having said that, and while I thought the Giants should have traded up to get Hightower, the draft (as someone on TV put it) is like a candy store.. "you can have this but you can't have that". I'm stoked about our first 3 pix.. Basically we replaced departing FA with very good rookies who will contribute in some form or another. I'm looking forward to Wilson's kickoff return as well as (grrr.. our 3rd rounder) punt returns... our ST sucked balls in that department and I think that was weighed in when drafting.

 

Beyond the 4th round I really can't say for sure... it's a crap shoot.

 

Edit: The Rookie TE could turn out to be the steal of the draft this year... I think his upside is huge.

 

You bring up a good point that I meant to put in my original post.....and that is, I see a lot of improvement in our Special Teams play. We got a legitimate gunner, two legitimate returners, and some really fast, strong, hungry youngsters that can and will tackle. Wilson, Hosley, and Robinson will contribute immediately on special teams. ST play (especially returning kicks) has been one of our only problem areas and I think we just improved greatly. Hosley will make a great gunner and we haven't had a real true gunner since we lost Tyree.

[Mr. P]

It seems we often draft players who were good returners in college but we never end up with good returners on the giants.

[Allstarjim]

Wilson and Hosley have the change of direction and speed to be difference makers in the return game. Randle could be in the mix as a returner as well. But I definitely agree our specials are greatly bolstered with this draft.

[Allstarjim]

Oh yeah, Bleedin', I did see Polk went undrafted. I think what I said I saw from him was basically a D.J. Ware. To me, there wasn't any burst from him, and I didn't see great power in his runs, either. You have to have one or the other. He looked like an upright runner without much homerun ability and I believe that's why he slid.

[BleedinBlue]

Oh yeah, Bleedin', I did see Polk went undrafted. I think what I said I saw from him was basically a D.J. Ware. To me, there wasn't any burst from him, and I didn't see great power in his runs, either. You have to have one or the other. He looked like an upright runner without much homerun ability and I believe that's why he slid.

 

He's a poster child as to why most mocks and pretend "scouts" and "analysts" in the media mean precious little. Everyone had him going in the 2nd with a handful in the 3rd and some even in the 1st. I don't know how many RB's came off the board in the last three days, but probably 30 or 40 anyway....maybe a lot more. At worst, he was the 6th or 7th top RB and in a couple of cases, a top 5 RB in media rankings....yet he went undrafted. Go figure.

 

Anyway....I hope he's not as good as his original hype because he's going on the Eagle's squad and we'll probably face him some day.

[Allstarjim]

JPP and Tuck will eat him for a snack.

[BleedinBlue]

My bad.....I hit the wrong button and didn't know I was posting.

 

IGNORE THIS POST!

[Nas]

JPP and Tuck will eat him for a snack.

 

Besides the Eagles have a great RB as is...

[Allstarjim]

No biggie, Bleedin'. I don't think anyone is going to be losing sleep over Polk. Now Nas brought up Shady McCoy, now THAT is a guy that scares me. But guess what? I think David Wilson's game is very much like McCoy's and he can be just as good. You guy's watch, this guy is going to be amazing. I'm almost sporting wood over here thinking about the matchups. If this TE pans out, man oh man, teams are not going to have an answer... it will be just blitz all the time because you can't cover all those skill positions.

 

And now is the long wait until preseason. We can repeat, fellas, that's how good this talent is on this team. This year, we'll be blowing some teams out. David Wilson alone is going to be an enormous upgrade over Jacobs, he just has to not turn the ball over. If he can do that, damn, our offense is going to GO.

[BleedinBlue]

I was reading on another site that Polk has a degenerative hip. Great player - won't last because of medical issues.

 

Here's one of the sites I was reading earlier that thinks we took Hosley because of our lack of faith in Prince - take it with a grain of salt: http://www.rantsports.com/new-york-giants/2012/04/28/new-york-giants-selection-of-jayron-hosley-shows-lack-of-faith-in-prince-amukamara/

 

Interestingly, Kiper gives the Giants a C+ grade. That makes me happy because whenever he second guesses the Giants and grades them low we always excel. Kiper is an ass. Anyway, here's his take:

 

“I had running back as the top need for the Giants, and they got one with their first pick. David Wilson should be productive, but I think they really would have preferred Doug Martin. I might have gone with an O-lineman there, but the Giants have capably kept things patched up for a couple years, and will have to continue to do so, because they didn’t get a tackle until the fourth round.

 

Brandon Mosley has a shot (he’s the No. 13-ranked offensive tackle on my board), but you don’t want him starting in Week 1. Rueben

 

Ran

dle lacks explosiveness,

but he was a pretty good value as the last pick in Round 2. Clearly, the NFL thought he’d be gone far higher — he was the last player in the green room.

 

Jayron Hosley is a really instinctive corner, and I wouldn’t have thought he’d still be around based on his sophomore year. But he regressed in 2011. He can cover, but h

e lacks a physical element to his game.

Some helpful pieces, but Wilson needs to provide impact.

Yes, the Giants should have gone offensive tackle with the first pick and drafted a back in the third round... They were there to be drafted".

 

What a laugh!

[Allstarjim]

Kiper is the reason I watch NFL Network for draft coverage. I know you like Mayock, I think he's a great talent evaluator as well.

[Nas]

I was reading on another site that Polk has a degenerative hip. Great player - won't last because of medical issues.

 

Here's one of the sites I was reading earlier that thinks we took Hosley because of our lack of faith in Prince - take it with a grain of salt: http://www.rantsport...ince-amukamara/

 

Interestingly, Kiper gives the Giants a C+ grade. That makes me happy because whenever he second guesses the Giants and grades them low we always excel. Kiper is an ass. Anyway, here's his take:

 

“I had running back as the top need for the Giants, and they got one with their first pick. David Wilson should be productive, but I think they really would have preferred Doug Martin. I might have gone with an O-lineman there, but the Giants have capably kept things patched up for a couple years, and will have to continue to do so, because they didn’t get a tackle until the fourth round.

 

Brandon Mosley has a shot (he’s the No. 13-ranked offensive tackle on my board), but you don’t want him starting in Week 1. Rueben

 

Ran

dle lacks explosiveness,

but he was a pretty good value as the last pick in Round 2. Clearly, the NFL thought he’d be gone far higher — he was the last player in the green room.

 

Jayron Hosley is a really instinctive corner, and I wouldn’t have thought he’d still be around based on his sophomore year. But he regressed in 2011. He can cover, but h

e lacks a physical element to his game.

Some helpful pieces, but Wilson needs to provide impact.

Yes, the Giants should have gone offensive tackle with the first pick and drafted a back in the third round... They were there to be drafted".

 

What a laugh!

 

I wanted to laugh.. this guy is a fucking poser. Wow, you mean to tell me every human being has a weakness? You don't fucking say

[BleedinBlue]

Some of the things Kiper said are absolutely ridiculous. Like Hosley "lacks a physical element to his game". What an ass....Hosley is very, very aggressive - perhaps too aggressive - and loves to hit hard. There isn't a soft thing about Hosley...he's a freakin animal.

 

And Randle has a lot of explosiveness. He was one of only 26 invited to the green room, which is a much better indication of his talent than Kiper and his notebook. The best thing Kiper can say is that Randle was a good value as the last pick in Round 2. He was much more than "good value".....he might very well end up the steal of the draft and most definitely belonged in the group of the 26 best players going into the draft.

 

Hell....I remember when he went on and on and on about what a wasted pick the Giants made when they took Osi. He literally laughed on TV when the Giants made that pick. He's a fool and why ESPN keeps him is beyond me. Arrogance and stupidity are not the qualities one looks for in a reporter who is overly opinionated and is wrong nearly 100% of the time.

[BleedinBlue]

I see that several websites have greade the Giants' draft from C- to C+, but a whopping B- from ESPN, based entirely on the first thre picks. To me....that's a good sign.

 

The biggest criticism that I gleaned from all these sites is that the couch potatoes who put these together go strictly by filling needs with highly rated players at the need positions. They feel that the Giants put more attention on physical abilities (speed, size, quickness, and strength) and figure they can pull a rabbit out of their hat like they did with JPP. One goes on to say that for every JPP that works out, ten are busts. They are saying that Robinson, Mosely, McCants, and Kuhn are all physical freaks that are unproven commodities. Even some of their UDFA's tend to be physical freaks without much on their résumés to go on.

 

But I don't see it that way. I think TC and Reese have incredible confidence in their coaches and believe these players can be coached up to NFL mainstays. They have proven that over and over with turning average players into stud players. I suspect they'll get their last 4 pick players into NFL condition and will they will succeed. I guess time will tell. Also, throw Eli into the mix with the coaches and this team can spin silk into gold out of a sow's ear.

 

Regardless....I always feel best when we are given low grades and everyone has low expectations of the team. I only get nervous when our draft is graded high and the talking heads start saying that Giants are the team to beat.

[NeMesiS]

Giants get an F for not drafting Coby Fleener...

[Nas]

Giants get an F for not drafting Coby Fleener...

 

Why so? Which is more important to ANY football team? a RB or a TE?

[Treehugger]

[Tempest]

Giants made the best of the draft, burden of drafting last for beating all the teams that were the media darlings.

 

Been very happy with each Jerry Reese draft and this proved no exception. He was smart not to go after Coby Fleener and picked up players that slipped right to us in the second and third rounds. Every time one person talks about drafting the best player on your board there is a group yelling we need at this position and the best player for this position can be draft in this round. Very hard to fight through that.

 

Have a good feeling about Adrien Robinson.