Top 5 QB's in the NFL

[JMFP]

my god...the dog was actually doing his best to just let this thread go, but

 

 

.....but it was too much for you.

[BIGBLUE01]

my god...the dog was actually doing his best to just let this thread go, but really? peyton manning to you is the 4th best QB in the league? this solidifies it, you know as much about football as an infant born in the Sudan...the dog won't even entertain the rest of your list. priceless...absolutely priceless...

 

No, Peyton Manning, IMO, is the BEST in the league....OVERALL. I was talkin about CURRENTLY. And the only reason Peytons stats are better than Elis right now, is because we had a bye. I also take into consideration all the tipped passes by our WRs.

 

Thanks for the admiration doggy. I love how I havent mentioned you or seen you in forever and you run to comment to me. Thanks, its flattering.

[BIGBLUE01]

Guys, I'm assuming he had a mental snafu and missplaced the Manning brothers with each other.

 

Thought about it......you could put it either way, and I would be fine with it.

[gmenroc]

I have no issues with your rankings, but the last part about Eli or Ben I have to disagree with. Yes the Giants gave up a lot, but at the end of the day I know Eli will be starting every game he can. I have no concern that he'll get in a motorcycle accident without a helmet or rape a chick and miss time; he'll be there. IMO, the trade is worth it for Eli's character, as opposed to Ben's.

 

It's a good point, but if I'm simply looking at on the field performance...

[JMFP]

Character counts for alot....that's why I'd take Eli Manning over Rothlisberger.

 

When all is said and down, Eli will be the greatest QB the Giants have ever had.

[BIGBLUE01]

Character counts for alot....that's why I'd take Eli Manning over Rothlisberger.

 

When all is said and down, Eli will be the greatest QB the Giants have ever had.

 

That was my line of thinking too, which I factored into my ratings. We're talking top 5, to be anywhere in the top 5 is good.

[gmenroc]

Character counts for alot....that's why I'd take Eli Manning over Rothlisberger.

 

When all is said and down, Eli will be the greatest QB the Giants have ever had.

 

Numbers-wise yes. How much that has to do with the changes in the league (i.e. changing of rules to favor higher scoring, protection of QB, etc.) and how much it has to do with the personnel the Giants have (3 talented, young WRs) yes.

 

I don't see Eli going 22 for 25 in the SB though.

[BIGBLUE01]

Numbers-wise yes. How much that has to do with the changes in the league (i.e. changing of rules to favor higher scoring, protection of QB, etc.) and how much it has to do with the personnel the Giants have (3 talented, young WRs) yes.

 

I don't see Eli going 22 for 25 in the SB though.

 

Especially if our receivers still have a case of the tipsies.

[ksm7]

No, Peyton Manning, IMO, is the BEST in the league....OVERALL. I was talkin about CURRENTLY. And the only reason Peytons stats are better than Elis right now, is because we had a bye. I also take into consideration all the tipped passes by our WRs.

 

Thanks for the admiration doggy. I love how I havent mentioned you or seen you in forever and you run to comment to me. Thanks, its flattering.

 

um, peyton is the best in the league overall, but is ranked 4th in the league currently in your mind? the dog is now convinced you have no clue. putting eli ahead of peyton "currently" or "overall" is just plain ignorance. and have you seen peyton play yet this year? do you think the drop off is that bad? really? he is only 5-3 with 1/4 of his team on the field...but your right, he is number 4 currently behind brady, brees and (ha ha ha ha...) little eli....ha ha ha ha...

[BIGBLUE01]

um, peyton is the best in the league overall, but is ranked 4th in the league currently in your mind? the dog is now convinced you have no clue. putting eli ahead of peyton "currently" or "overall" is just plain ignorance. and have you seen peyton play yet this year? do you think the drop off is that bad? really? he is only 5-3 with 1/4 of his team on the field...but your right, he is number 4 currently behind brady, brees and (ha ha ha ha...) little eli....ha ha ha ha...

 

Boy, you put a lot of effort into the tiniest things. You know, like when you masturbate? I wasnt ranking them specifically, I was giving my top 5....IN MY OPINION, who had the best stats and are most important to their team...CURRENTLY. Peytons stats arent too much different than Elis, considering our bye week.

[Allstarjim]

Since Eli's first full season as starter, the New York Giants have not had a losing record. They've been 8-8 twice... last year being the second .500 season, and that was Eli's greatest statistical season as he did all he could to keep the Giants in games despite a matador defense. To his credit, Rivers has also performed very well since starting for the Chargers... they two have not endured a losing season with Rivers under center. But considered how bad that division has been the last several years, they SHOULD have winning records every year. I will take nothing away from Rivers' regular season accomplishments. He's been very good if not great, consistently. But he has not won in the postseason, and Eli has. Eli had a great defense behind him, but what he did in knocking off the Patriots is so dramatically historic, it will likely never be topped. Eli has the ring, period.

 

Here's my rankings:

 

Peyton: If we were talking the top 5 QB's of ALL TIME, he might still be at the top. No more discussion needed.

 

Brady: I hate this smug little bastard... but he's a competitor, and he's a winner. He has lost a little shine since the knee injury two years ago, but watch and see if he doesn't have a career resurgence the next several seasons, including this one. He understands his offense as good as any QB in the NFL.

 

Eli: Even though he continually is voted "overrated", I still think he's underrated. If anything, Eli's learning curve was a little less steep than his counterparts in Rivers and Roethlisberger. But he's got it now. Everything you want in a QB, Eli has. He's as tough as they come. He's a winner. He's a workaholic. He is a team player. He is great in the 2 minute offense. He has a penchant for late game heroics. His character is beyond reproach. His entire offensive unit seems to love playing for him and they will rally to his defense (remember the Tiki bruhaha?). He's very intelligent. He's terrific pre-snap. He has a big arm and throws a great deep ball. And he thrives in Giants stadium, a place where other supposedly great QB's would not be as successful if they were the QB of this team. Plus, his teammates see the quiet intensity he has that many times the cameras miss... they don't question his leadership, maybe others do outside of the lockerroom but they don't really matter, do they? There are only two other QB's in the NFL, in my estimation, that have this entire package, and that's Peyton and Aaron Rodgers.

 

Rodgers: A few people knocked Peyton for being ringless for being a great regular season QB but not a champion, but I was not one of them. You could see in Peyton how good he was, it didn't matter that he hadn't one his ring yet. He eventually got his and now is universally recognized as the best QB of our time. The same should be said about Aaron Rodgers. You don't have to worry about his lack of a ring yet. He's only started for 2 and half seasons... but you can just SEE plainly, that he has the goods. Look what he has done in his 2 and half seasons as a starter: 10,483 yards passing with 70 TD's, 29 INT's, a career 63% passer. Plus, he has the added dimension Peyton, Brady, and Eli do not: 655 yards rushing with 12 TD's. He does this playing 9 games a season in Lambeau and Soldier Field. He endured a 6-10 season his first year, but led his team to an 11-5 record last year, and is on his way to another winning season this year. Another season or two and I will likely have him leapfrog Eli, at minimum, on this list... and I was tempted to do it now.

 

Roethlisberger: Character and durability matter. But you can't deny Ben is a winner, a big competitor, and he has two rings. But Ben brings baggage the other guys on this list don't. But he has two rings, and his teams win a lot of games. His stats are very good. And last year he had a career year. But most years he's missed a game or two for some ridiculous reasons. His character has come into question a couple of times. So he's my 5th best QB in the NFL. But on the field, he's as good as the guys ahead of him, save Peyton.

 

Just out of the top 5:

 

Rivers : The margin here is razor thin but he does not have the postseason success that I would've expected out of him by now. Still, he's a terrific passer and a fiery competitor. The difference, to me, between Rivers and Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Eli, and Brady, is that if you had him switch uniforms and teams with any of those guys... would he be as successful? Would he still put up the gaudy numbers? Would he still win as many or more games? And the problem is, I can't say for certain the answer is yes. But put any of those guys in a Charger uniform and I think they do just as well. He is a great fit for San Diego, though, and while I think we put every decision Eli makes on the field under the microscope, we do not do the same with Rivers and see some of the poor decisions he's made that has cost his team games in the past. He's still a great QB, and he could just as well move up this list very quickly with some postseason success this year... but I can't say right now he's better than these guys above him.

 

Brees: Yep, he's not in my top 5. Surprised? Don't be. I respect Brees, I do. He's a great QB, he's at least the 7th best in the NFL among a terrific group of passers. But by beef with him is that I don't think he can do what he does in the Super Dome in Giants Stadium, or Soldier Field, or Lambeau Field. He's great at what he does. He plays on a fast track with an offensive style that is similar to arena football. The offense is geared for lots of passing and gaudy statistics. And he has a ring. But his numbers in San Diego, while very good, we're not as good as what Rivers is doing now, or how well he's doing playing more than half his games in domed stadiums on turf. In 2008, he was borderline terrible in outdoor games... since then, he's been almost as good outdoors as he's been indoors. Not quite as good, but he's performed at a very high level. He's intense and he's a natural leader. He's a legit Pro Bowler. But I just don't think he would be better than Eli in NY, or Rodgers in Green Bay, or even Rivers in San Diego. Under Brees, the Saints have gone 10-6, 7-9, 8-8, and 13-3 in their Super Bowl winning season. I THINK that they will be consistent winners with Brees going forward. Is he a winner like the QB's ahead of him? Probably. And probably gets you 7th on this list. The main thing is I would take any one of the QB's above before Brees if I was picking a QB for a team playing in a outdoors stadium.

[BIGBLUE01]

Since Eli's first full season as starter, the New York Giants have not had a losing record. They've been 8-8 twice... last year being the second .500 season, and that was Eli's greatest statistical season as he did all he could to keep the Giants in games despite a matador defense. To his credit, Rivers has also performed very well since starting for the Chargers... they two have not endured a losing season with Rivers under center. But considered how bad that division has been the last several years, they SHOULD have winning records every year. I will take nothing away from Rivers' regular season accomplishments. He's been very good if not great, consistently. But he has not won in the postseason, and Eli has. Eli had a great defense behind him, but what he did in knocking off the Patriots is so dramatically historic, it will likely never be topped. Eli has the ring, period.

 

Here's my rankings:

 

Peyton: If we were talking the top 5 QB's of ALL TIME, he might still be at the top. No more discussion needed.

 

Brady: I hate this smug little bastard... but he's a competitor, and he's a winner. He has lost a little shine since the knee injury two years ago, but watch and see if he doesn't have a career resurgence the next several seasons, including this one. He understands his offense as good as any QB in the NFL.

 

Eli: Even though he continually is voted "overrated", I still think he's underrated. If anything, Eli's learning curve was a little less steep than his counterparts in Rivers and Roethlisberger. But he's got it now. Everything you want in a QB, Eli has. He's as tough as they come. He's a winner. He's a workaholic. He is a team player. He is great in the 2 minute offense. He has a penchant for late game heroics. His character is beyond reproach. His entire offensive unit seems to love playing for him and they will rally to his defense (remember the Tiki bruhaha?). He's very intelligent. He's terrific pre-snap. He has a big arm and throws a great deep ball. And he thrives in Giants stadium, a place where other supposedly great QB's would not be as successful if they were the QB of this team. Plus, his teammates see the quiet intensity he has that many times the cameras miss... they don't question his leadership, maybe others do outside of the lockerroom but they don't really matter, do they? There are only two other QB's in the NFL, in my estimation, that have this entire package, and that's Peyton and Aaron Rodgers.

 

Rodgers: A few people knocked Peyton for being ringless for being a great regular season QB but not a champion, but I was not one of them. You could see in Peyton how good he was, it didn't matter that he hadn't one his ring yet. He eventually got his and now is universally recognized as the best QB of our time. The same should be said about Aaron Rodgers. You don't have to worry about his lack of a ring yet. He's only started for 2 and half seasons... but you can just SEE plainly, that he has the goods. Look what he has done in his 2 and half seasons as a starter: 10,483 yards passing with 70 TD's, 29 INT's, a career 63% passer. Plus, he has the added dimension Peyton, Brady, and Eli do not: 655 yards rushing with 12 TD's. He does this playing 9 games a season in Lambeau and Soldier Field. He endured a 6-10 season his first year, but led his team to an 11-5 record last year, and is on his way to another winning season this year. Another season or two and I will likely have him leapfrog Eli, at minimum, on this list... and I was tempted to do it now.

 

Roethlisberger: Character and durability matter. But you can't deny Ben is a winner, a big competitor, and he has two rings. But Ben brings baggage the other guys on this list don't. But he has two rings, and his teams win a lot of games. His stats are very good. And last year he had a career year. But most years he's missed a game or two for some ridiculous reasons. His character has come into question a couple of times. So he's my 5th best QB in the NFL. But on the field, he's as good as the guys ahead of him, save Peyton.

 

Just out of the top 5:

 

Rivers : The margin here is razor thin but he does not have the postseason success that I would've expected out of him by now. Still, he's a terrific passer and a fiery competitor. The difference, to me, between Rivers and Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Eli, and Brady, is that if you had him switch uniforms and teams with any of those guys... would he be as successful? Would he still put up the gaudy numbers? Would he still win as many or more games? And the problem is, I can't say for certain the answer is yes. But put any of those guys in a Charger uniform and I think they do just as well. He is a great fit for San Diego, though, and while I think we put every decision Eli makes on the field under the microscope, we do not do the same with Rivers and see some of the poor decisions he's made that has cost his team games in the past. He's still a great QB, and he could just as well move up this list very quickly with some postseason success this year... but I can't say right now he's better than these guys above him.

 

Brees: Yep, he's not in my top 5. Surprised? Don't be. I respect Brees, I do. He's a great QB, he's at least the 7th best in the NFL among a terrific group of passers. But by beef with him is that I don't think he can do what he does in the Super Dome in Giants Stadium, or Soldier Field, or Lambeau Field. He's great at what he does. He plays on a fast track with an offensive style that is similar to arena football. The offense is geared for lots of passing and gaudy statistics. And he has a ring. But his numbers in San Diego, while very good, we're not as good as what Rivers is doing now, or how well he's doing playing more than half his games in domed stadiums on turf. In 2008, he was borderline terrible in outdoor games... since then, he's been almost as good outdoors as he's been indoors. Not quite as good, but he's performed at a very high level. He's intense and he's a natural leader. He's a legit Pro Bowler. But I just don't think he would be better than Eli in NY, or Rodgers in Green Bay, or even Rivers in San Diego. Under Brees, the Saints have gone 10-6, 7-9, 8-8, and 13-3 in their Super Bowl winning season. I THINK that they will be consistent winners with Brees going forward. Is he a winner like the QB's ahead of him? Probably. And probably gets you 7th on this list. The main thing is I would take any one of the QB's above before Brees if I was picking a QB for a team playing in a outdoors stadium.

 

Awesome. Agreed. My list was current #'s BEFORE our bye. But this assessment is almost spot on. Good job Jim.

[NYG Hampton 27]

It's a good point, but if I'm simply looking at on the field performance...

Yea I see your point. On the field they are very comparable, and considering the Giants gave so much when they could have just drafted Ben, thats a big tip in the scales, but the bringing in off the field behavior I feel the scale tips back Eli's way. I think we both pretty much agree here though, so

[NeMesiS]

Since Eli's first full season as starter, the New York Giants have not had a losing record. They've been 8-8 twice... last year being the second .500 season, and that was Eli's greatest statistical season as he did all he could to keep the Giants in games despite a matador defense. To his credit, Rivers has also performed very well since starting for the Chargers... they two have not endured a losing season with Rivers under center. But considered how bad that division has been the last several years, they SHOULD have winning records every year. I will take nothing away from Rivers' regular season accomplishments. He's been very good if not great, consistently. But he has not won in the postseason, and Eli has. Eli had a great defense behind him, but what he did in knocking off the Patriots is so dramatically historic, it will likely never be topped. Eli has the ring, period.

 

Here's my rankings:

 

 

 

Jesus Christ, Jim...Can I get the Cliff-note version...

 

Good Post though...

[ksm7]

Awesome. Agreed. My list was current #'s BEFORE our bye. But this assessment is almost spot on. Good job Jim.

 

the dog would disagree. this assessment is riddled with inconsistencies...rivers is given the nod for being consistently great but not winning in the post season, yet rodgers gets your automatic nod for having the complete package without winning in the post season. brady is ranked second, standing ahead of rodgers and eli who you believe have the complete package. eli manning in the same breath as peyton is just ridiculous (not saying little eli is not good, but let's be real). and how can anyone dismiss a QBs accomplishments because he plays indoors. this is a professional football player who has demonstrated success in all environments. funny peyton manning has played his whole career indoors...maybe he should be ranked somewhere between 8-10? silly.

[BIGBLUE01]

the dog would disagree. this assessment is riddled with inconsistencies...rivers is given the nod for being consistently great but not winning in the post season, yet rodgers gets your automatic nod for having the complete package without winning in the post season. brady is ranked second, standing ahead of rodgers and eli who you believe have the complete package. eli manning in the same breath as peyton is just ridiculous (not saying little eli is not good, but let's be real). and how can anyone dismiss a QBs accomplishments because he plays indoors. this is a professional football player who has demonstrated success in all environments. funny peyton manning has played his whole career indoors...maybe he should be ranked somewhere between 8-10? silly.

 

Sooo...then you probably shoulda quoted and replied to Jim.

 

And Eli and Peyton have the same # of rings. So its not absurd to mention them in the same breath. We know whos better, but pretty soon, it wont be by much.

[ksm7]

Sooo...then you probably shoulda quoted and replied to Jim.

 

And Eli and Peyton have the same # of rings. So its not absurd to mention them in the same breath. We know whos better, but pretty soon, it wont be by much.

 

first, the dog quoted you for two reasons - one you said it was a good analysis, and the dog disagreed, but more importantly, jim's epic post was akin to the king james bible, and so the dog didn't want to quote it as you did yet again and have people scroll through it for hours.

 

second, number of rings means nothing in this comparison. once again, if you must, then trent dilfer, doug williams, brad johnson, mark rypien and others all should be mentioned in the same breath as eli and peyton...nice analysis. nice.

[BIGBLUE01]

first, the dog quoted you for two reasons - one you said it was a good analysis, and the dog disagreed, but more importantly, jim's epic post was akin to the king james bible, and so the dog didn't want to quote it as you did yet again and have people scroll through it for hours.

 

second, number of rings means nothing in this comparison. once again, if you must, then trent dilfer, doug williams, brad johnson, mark rypien and others all should be mentioned in the same breath as eli and peyton...nice analysis. nice.

 

Before the bye they had similar stats besides INTS, and the fact that only about 3 were Elis fault I put him at 2. I put Brady at #1 solely based on his record. Manning at 3 was based on whats goin on RIGHT NOW. He did lose to HOU and JAX remember. We killed HOU and Eli was very good in that game. My list was not that absurd, it just looked that way when I Rodgers ahead Manning. That was a mistake.

[JMFP]

then trent dilfer, doug williams, brad johnson, mark rypien and others all should be mentioned in the same breath as eli and peyton...

 

You continue to walk out "The Dilfer Argument".

 

But this merely begs the question - if his championship, his winning percentage, and his statistics (which continue to improve) are not enough to qualify Eli as an elite QB.......what sort of criteria does The Dog use to judge great quarterbacks?

 

Speaking of Dilfer....I always thought he was a good quarterback.....Rex Grossman is a good example of the general rule that to win a Super Bowl , you need a good QB. Defense wins Championships, but you can't get there without a good QB.

 

Anyway, a comparison between Eli and your examples show that Eli is on a higher level than Dilfer, Rypien, or Williams.....Brad Johnson is the only one with comparable stats, and that's over a much longer career.

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/trentdilfer/profile?id=DIL049692 ........ Dilfer

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/markrypien/profile?id=RYP415291 ........ Rypien

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/dougwilliams/profile?id=WIL247171 ....... Williams

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/elimanning/profile?id=MAN473170 .....Eli Manning

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/bradjohnson/profile?id=JOH322990 ..... Johnson

 

 

Bottom line is this.....by the end of his career, Eli Manning will have numbers similar to the best QBs ever to play the game......he's about halfway through his career at this point, with over 20,000 yards. He's on track for about 40,000 career yards, which would put him near Dan Fouts

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_career.htm?redir ..... Career Passing Leaders

[ksm7]

Before the bye they had similar stats besides INTS, and the fact that only about 3 were Elis fault I put him at 2. I put Brady at #1 solely based on his record. Manning at 3 was based on whats goin on RIGHT NOW. He did lose to HOU and JAX remember. We killed HOU and Eli was very good in that game. My list was not that absurd, it just looked that way when I Rodgers ahead Manning. That was a mistake.

 

place eli where you want, just not ahead of peyton or brady. the dog wouldn't take him over brees, rodgers or roethlisberger either. rivers is debatable.

 

manning at 3 is absurd. HE (and this is what is wrong with others like joe who argue wins wins wins...), HE did not lose to jacksonville and houston. in fact, what he did against jacksonville was really all the more to strengthen the argument that he is the best QB in the league period. the team, and the defense lost both. and looking at this year if you must, the giants (get ready everybody, this will bother you all) did beat houston, a slightly better than average team. aside from that, they beat dallas, carolina, chicago, and detroit. two teams with one win, one team with two wins and one team with four wins that will probably finish with 6 at best. so, who has eli beaten? the stats argument is irrelevant at this point, as you yourself pointed out when you said eli's interception total isn't his fault - stats only tell a part of the story...

[ksm7]

You continue to walk out "The Dilfer Argument".

 

But this merely begs the question - if his championship, his winning percentage, and his statistics (which continue to improve) are not enough to qualify Eli as an elite QB.......what sort of criteria does The Dog use to judge great quarterbacks?

 

Speaking of Dilfer....I always thought he was a good quarterback.....Rex Grossman is a good example of the general rule that to win a Super Bowl , you need a good QB. Defense wins Championships, but you can't get there without a good QB.

 

Anyway, a comparison between Eli and your examples show that Eli is on a higher level than Dilfer, Rypien, or Williams.....Brad Johnson is the only one with comparable stats, and that's over a much longer career.

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/trentdilfer/profile?id=DIL049692 ........ Dilfer

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/markrypien/profile?id=RYP415291 ........ Rypien

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/dougwilliams/profile?id=WIL247171 ....... Williams

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/elimanning/profile?id=MAN473170 .....Eli Manning

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/bradjohnson/profile?id=JOH322990 ..... Johnson

 

 

Bottom line is this.....by the end of his career, Eli Manning will have numbers similar to the best QBs ever to play the game......he's about halfway through his career at this point, with over 20,000 yards. He's on track for about 40,000 career yards, which would put him near Dan Fouts

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_career.htm?redir ..... Career Passing Leaders

 

the dog could ask you the same thing. you and others seem to shift what is emphasized in order to fit eli in the top 5 as you see fit. a cowboy or eagle fan brings up romo or mcnabb and their numbers (wins and stats), suddenly not having a ring automatically puts you out of top 5 contention. someone puts roethlisberger (two rings) ahead of manning, suddenly credit is taken away from him for benefiting from a good defense (um, manning doesn't sniff a super bowl without that defense in 2007...see last year for those results), and super bowl wins are de-emphasized. the dog throws out weak QBS with super bowl wins, and you post there career stats again de-emphasizing the rings when it suits you.

 

there is no criteria. kyle orton is outplaying eli manning and many others as a QB right now. if he had a team and or coach around him, he would have the wins to support his numbers. yet he isn't on anyones radar in top QB discussions...you know what, he should be. factors beyond his control diminish the number of wins he has, yet by your twisted and twisting criteria he would be well below what his level of play should place...

 

to project that manning will finish his career with numbers comparable to the best ever QBs is quite ambitous and over the top. can't be predicted. much the same way it was predicted after a super bowl loss that marino would be back for many more chances...or after GB lost to denver that favre would be back...

[Allstarjim]

the dog would disagree. this assessment is riddled with inconsistencies...rivers is given the nod for being consistently great but not winning in the post season, yet rodgers gets your automatic nod for having the complete package without winning in the post season. brady is ranked second, standing ahead of rodgers and eli who you believe have the complete package. eli manning in the same breath as peyton is just ridiculous (not saying little eli is not good, but let's be real). and how can anyone dismiss a QBs accomplishments because he plays indoors. this is a professional football player who has demonstrated success in all environments. funny peyton manning has played his whole career indoors...maybe he should be ranked somewhere between 8-10? silly.

 

 

It's not inconsistent if you use your brain. I'll address this in order of my rankings. Peyton is first because he's first. You watch him play and for how long he's done it, there's no reason to go any further. Brady is second, right now because his accomplishments are so well chronicled that I didn't see the need to go into them. He is a mutli-SB winner and he owns the single greatest season by a QB in NFL history. I didn't mention Eli and Peyton in the same breath. I said Peyton was first, and possibly is the best of all time. I said Eli is third right now. There is dropoff from first to second and a bigger drop off from second to third.

 

I put Rodgers at fourth, because he's only done it for two and a half seasons. Yes, Rodgers and Eli have the whole package in what you want in your QB. That doesn't mean they are both better than Brady. Brady has all those things minus the big arm that the others have. But it has hardly been a noodle arm, either, and it certainly hasn't held him back. If it would make you feel better, I could just say that Brady has the whole package, too. OK?

 

I also said Rodgers is poised to leapfrog Eli, and I almost have him at three right now.

 

I diminished Brees because he didn't do what he's doing now in San Diego. He also HASN'T been as good without the Sean Payton offense that is very pass heavy and conducive to putting up huge stats. Brees also HAS struggled in weather games... in fact, in 2008 he wasn't that good AT ALL in outdoor stadiums. That's not to say he isn't great, he is. The same point cannot be made about Peyton, who has dominated everywhere. Brees also does not have the consistent winning pedigree, and yes, WINNING matters, a lot. QB is the most significant position in the NFL that determines wins and losses. It stands to reason that QB's that win consistently (particularly ones that have demonstrated the ability to carry their teams to late come from behind victories) are far more valuable than QB's that have come up short on a consistent basis (see Romo, Tony). It's really not that hard, Doggie.

[ksm7]

It's not inconsistent if you use your brain. I'll address this in order of my rankings. Peyton is first because he's first. You watch him play and for how long he's done it, there's no reason to go any further. Brady is second, right now because his accomplishments are so well chronicled that I didn't see the need to go into them. He is a mutli-SB winner and he owns the single greatest season by a QB in NFL history. I didn't mention Eli and Peyton in the same breath. I said Peyton was first, and possibly is the best of all time. I said Eli is third right now. There is dropoff from first to second and a bigger drop off from second to third.

 

I put Rodgers at fourth, because he's only done it for two and a half seasons. Yes, Rodgers and Eli have the whole package in what you want in your QB. That doesn't mean they are both better than Brady. Brady has all those things minus the big arm that the others have. But it has hardly been a noodle arm, either, and it certainly hasn't held him back. If it would make you feel better, I could just say that Brady has the whole package, too. OK?

 

I also said Rodgers is poised to leapfrog Eli, and I almost have him at three right now.

 

I diminished Brees because he didn't do what he's doing now in San Diego. He also HASN'T been as good without the Sean Payton offense that is very pass heavy and conducive to putting up huge stats. Brees also HAS struggled in weather games... in fact, in 2008 he wasn't that good AT ALL in outdoor stadiums. That's not to say he isn't great, he is. The same point cannot be made about Peyton, who has dominated everywhere. Brees also does not have the consistent winning pedigree, and yes, WINNING matters, a lot. QB is the most significant position in the NFL that determines wins and losses. It stands to reason that QB's that win consistently (particularly ones that have demonstrated the ability to carry their teams to late come from behind victories) are far more valuable than QB's that have come up short on a consistent basis (see Romo, Tony). It's really not that hard, Doggie.

 

the dog would encourage you to look at brees sumbers in san diego again. pretty solid indeed. and funny that he may not have the "winning pedigree" having played in the same place as philip rivers, who many also argued against ranking him higher for the same reasons...could it be more than the QBs fault for that? hmmmm...and eli has struggled in weather games as well. as a lot of QBs have. yes winning matters, but you have to go beyond the wins sometimes before giving or taking away credit from a QB. is jim mcmahon a top 5 QB in 85? no. but he rolled up 18 wins against one loss. come from behind wins is a weak stat. brett favre is among the career leaders in this category (may even be number one, the dog doesn't care to look it up)...yet a majority of those occurred because his own poor play and stupid decisions put the team in that place to begin with. let's take the dog's kyle orton example above one step further. if you put eli manning in denver the team results are the same. 2-6. not his fault, as it isn't ortons, who has done everything he can to win but has nothing to support him.

[JMFP]

the dog could ask you the same thing. you and others seem to shift what is emphasized in order to fit eli in the top 5 as you see fit. a cowboy or eagle fan brings up romo or mcnabb and their numbers (wins and stats), suddenly not having a ring automatically puts you out of top 5 contention. someone puts roethlisberger (two rings) ahead of manning, suddenly credit is taken away from him for benefiting from a good defense (um, manning doesn't sniff a super bowl without that defense in 2007...see last year for those results), and super bowl wins are de-emphasized. the dog throws out weak QBS with super bowl wins, and you post there career stats again de-emphasizing the rings when it suits you.

 

there is no criteria. kyle orton is outplaying eli manning and many others as a QB right now. if he had a team and or coach around him, he would have the wins to support his numbers. yet he isn't on anyones radar in top QB discussions...you know what, he should be. factors beyond his control diminish the number of wins he has, yet by your twisted and twisting criteria he would be well below what his level of play should place...

 

to project that manning will finish his career with numbers comparable to the best ever QBs is quite ambitous and over the top. can't be predicted. much the same way it was predicted after a super bowl loss that marino would be back for many more chances...or after GB lost to denver that favre would be back...

 

You provided several examples in an attempt to disprove my point, and statistically, they simply don't support your argument.

 

And then, you introduce Kyle Orton into the argument.....Eli has one more season in the league, and nearly double his yardage. Not to mention Orton has no ring, no playoff appearances, etc. I would imagine you could argue that Kyle hasn't been a starter for much of his career, to which I would respond if he were truly a great QB, he would have been starting much earlier.

 

Currently Orton is 2-6, whereas Eli is 5-2. Great quarterbacks win games. You are proving my argument.

 

There has been no "shifting" in my position. Eli continues to improve. He is leading arguably the most balanced attack in the NFL, and has a very real chance at another division title and playoff run.

 

Again, if Super Bowl Championships, Playoff appearances, Wins, Passing Yards, and Passer Rating are not valid metrics, then no, Eli is not an elite QB.

[Nas]

Numbers-wise yes. How much that has to do with the changes in the league (i.e. changing of rules to favor higher scoring, protection of QB, etc.) and how much it has to do with the personnel the Giants have (3 talented, young WRs) yes.

 

I don't see Eli going 22 for 25 in the SB though.

 

Yea but I saw him do this

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNUkUCknT90