Top 5 QB's in the NFL

[boohyah]

Let's put it this way.

 

If the league told me I could have a franchise and I could pick one of the top 5 quarterbacks in the league to build my team around. Eli wouldn't be one of those guys. No offense but stats be damned. If that means that some people think I'm anti Eli or Anti Giants then so be it. I'm not.

 

There are 5 guys better than him at the position in the league IMO. I think that if we were realistic and were to do a one for one trade for any of them, we'd make the trade in a heartbeat. I do think the Giants could be doing the same job with Rivers at QB. I think Rivers's problem in San Diego is that Norv Turner is a poor head coach, very few teams in the league have had San Diego's talent.

 

Fish, I disagree with the Rothlisberger assessment. To me he does everything Eli does and has been a better leader. Pittsburgh would have cut him if he wasn't as good as he is, he's worth the risk. They may have covered the games he missed, but he'll be integral to them down the stretch if he stays healthy.

 

As for Rodgers, Green Bay clearly should have cut their losses years before they did with Favre. This kid missed 2 seasons because Green Bay couldnt' play without their icon. Think how far along this kid would be if he had been playing all that time.

[ccase39]

Honestly, I think Brady and Brees are a lot closer to Rothlisberger, Rodgers, Eli and company then they are to Peyton now.

 

My list is something like this right now.

 

Peyton

Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Eli, Rivers.

 

Is it because the youngsters are coming into their prime? Or because Brady is getting a little older combined with a couple injuries? Or because Brees doesn't have quite the arsenal he did the last few years? Probly all three, but I would be comfortable interchanging any of the 4 I have after Peyton and think they could all be equally effective.

Brees is hurt this year. Thats why his numbers look so shitty.

[BIGBLUE01]

WTF!!!

 

You are on my radar at # 6

[JMFP]

Let's put it this way.

 

If the league told me I could have a franchise and I could pick one of the top 5 quarterbacks in the league to build my team around. Eli wouldn't be one of those guys. No offense but stats be damned. If that means that some people think I'm anti Eli or Anti Giants then so be it. I'm not.

 

There are 5 guys better than him at the position in the league IMO. I think that if we were realistic and were to do a one for one trade for any of them, we'd make the trade in a heartbeat. I do think the Giants could be doing the same job with Rivers at QB. I think Rivers's problem in San Diego is that Norv Turner is a poor head coach, very few teams in the league have had San Diego's talent.

 

Fish, I disagree with the Rothlisberger assessment. To me he does everything Eli does and has been a better leader. Pittsburgh would have cut him if he wasn't as good as he is, he's worth the risk. They may have covered the games he missed, but he'll be integral to them down the stretch if he stays healthy.

 

As for Rodgers, Green Bay clearly should have cut their losses years before they did with Favre. This kid missed 2 seasons because Green Bay couldnt' play without their icon. Think how far along this kid would be if he had been playing all that time.

 

You'd take Rothlisberger over Eli?......that's a brave GM. He almost killed himself by not wearing a helmet.....and he's got something of a Dave Meggett streak in him.

[boohyah]

You'd take Rothlisberger over Eli?......that's a brave GM. He almost killed himself by not wearing a helmet.....and he's got something of a Dave Meggett streak in him.

 

On talent and leadership ability, yes. And right now, he's put himself into a position whereas he has to be a good citizen from now on.

 

His behaviour off the field would be on the same level as Kerry Collins and Michael Vick, yet they got second chances and both paid off. You haven't heard a peep from Collins who was a model citizen as a Giant, and Ernie gave him a big contract when no-one else wanted to.

 

And Ben is better than both of those guys.

[JMFP]

On talent and leadership ability, yes. And right now, he's put himself into a position whereas he has to be a good citizen from now on.

 

His behaviour off the field would be on the same level as Kerry Collins and Michael Vick, yet they got second chances and both paid off. You haven't heard a peep from Collins who was a model citizen as a Giant, and Ernie gave him a big contract when no-one else wanted to.

 

And Ben is better than both of those guys.

 

Rothlisberger's off the field conduct is much worse than Kerry Collins. Big difference between being a drunk and being a sexual offender. He and Vick are more comparable....Vick was found guilty of killing dogs, and Rothlisberger has been accused - twice - of sexual misconduct with women. The difference between Dave Meggett and Rothlisberger is Dave Meggett can't play anymore in the NFL.

 

If you want to compare talent, that's fair.

 

Rothlisberger won his first superbowl through no accomplishments of his own. The defense completely carried that victory. In fact, it was statistically the worst Super Bowl performance by a winning QB, ever. He was essentially Rex Grossman that day.

 

His second Super Bowl performance was much better, but nobody will mistake the Cardinals for the 16-0 Patriots.

 

Regarding leadership, I disagree.....if he were the leader that some suggest, he would be a team captain. From the recent SI article, Ben is a world class scumbag, not a leader.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1169185/6/index.htm

 

Ben Roethlisberger is no longer a Pittsburgh Steelers captain. Dennis Dixon is the new Steelers quarterback, at least for the time being.

 

Roethlisberger, suspended by the NFL for the first four games of the season, was not chosen a Steelers captain in a vote by his teammates. He has been selected the previous two seasons. Wide receiver Hines Ward and tight end Heath Miller will be the offensive captains.

 

Ward, a Steelers captain for the sixth time, wouldn't say if off-field issues influenced the decision to not pick Roethlisberger.

 

''The captain's not just what you do on the field, it's what you do off the field,'' Ward said. ''Heath lives here (at the training facility), he's constantly here during coaching sessions and offseason workouts. It's well deserved.''

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Ben-Roethlisberger-not-elected-Pittsburgh-Steelers-captain-090610

 

[ksm7]

Rothlisberger's off the field conduct is much worse than Kerry Collins. Big difference between being a drunk and being a sexual offender. He and Vick are more comparable....Vick was found guilty of killing dogs, and Rothlisberger has been accused - twice - of sexual misconduct with women. The difference between Dave Meggett and Rothlisberger is Dave Meggett can't play anymore in the NFL.

 

If you want to compare talent, that's fair.

 

Rothlisberger won his first superbowl through no accomplishments of his own. The defense completely carried that victory. In fact, it was statistically the worst Super Bowl performance by a winning QB, ever. He was essentially Rex Grossman that day.

 

His second Super Bowl performance was much better, but nobody will mistake the Cardinals for the 16-0 Patriots.

 

Regarding leadership, I disagree.....if he were the leader that some suggest, he would be a team captain. From the recent SI article, Ben is a world class scumbag, not a leader.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1169185/6/index.htm

 

joe, this is the issue the dog has on all of this. it wasn't long ago that after the giants won the super bowl you were placing eli ahead of better QBs because he had a super bowl ring (at the time this included guys like brees...etc...). now a QB who has been just as much of, if not more of a winner during the same stretch of time, has one more super bowl ring and he suddenly doesn't rank as high in part because the defense carried him in the first super bowl...you know what, the defense carried the giants through that whole run. did manning play solid, mistake free football? yes. but stop ignoring the fact that the defense was the thread that held that together.

 

anyway, roethlisberger has been more of a winnner and has two rings...keep it consistent.

[fishgutmartyr]

joe, this is the issue the dog has on all of this. it wasn't long ago that after the giants won the super bowl you were placing eli ahead of better QBs because he had a super bowl ring (at the time this included guys like brees...etc...). now a QB who has been just as much of, if not more of a winner during the same stretch of time, has one more super bowl ring and he suddenly doesn't rank as high in part because the defense carried him in the first super bowl...you know what, the defense carried the giants through that whole run. did manning play solid, mistake free football? yes. but stop ignoring the fact that the defense was the thread that held that together.

 

anyway, roethlisberger has been more of a winnner and has two rings...keep it consistent.

 

You give disproportionate credit to the Giant defense that year. The Giants scored 30+ points in 6 games during the regular season that year, and the defense still managed to lose 2 of them. In their 10 wins, 4 of them were wins when the offense scored less than 20 points, which I would call a defensive victory. Four offensive wins: four defensive wins. I don't see where either side of the ball carried the other that season.

 

Other than the Superbowl, which the defense no doubt played at a level that they didn't demonstrate throughout the regular season, the playoff scores show a team that was performing well on both sides of the ball: 24-14, 21-17, 23-20. Frankly, if Manning doesn't lead the team in a lightening 2-minute drill in the first half of the Dallas playoff game, and a wide-open Dallas receiver doesn't drop the ball in the 4th quarter, the Giant's defense probably doesn't have a lights out game in the SB.

 

So far this season, the current defense is playing far better ball with much better talent (Strahan aside) than the one you are citing, and I'm not entirely sure that isn't a function of the offense keeping them off of the field.

 

Compare that to the 2005 Steelers: 8 games where the defense held the opponent below 20 points, 4 where the opponent was kept in single digits (happened once with the 2007 Giants). Three losses where the defense kept the opponent at or below 20 points (that didn't happen with the 2007 Giants). Only one loss with the opponent scoring over 30 points (Giants--5 times!). The legendary Roethlisberger offense scored 30+ points only 4 times that season against 3 teams: Tennessee, Detroit, and Cleveland (twice).

 

In a nutshell, that offense played solid, unspectacular football most of the 2005 season, but did not need to win any games on their own; and certainly lost a few on their own. It's pretty clear that the main dynamic of that team was defense.

 

That's why I put Manning in higher regard than Roethlisberger--Manning was more integral to that team than Roethlisberger was to his.

[Nas]

Eli Manning has never had a losing season as a starter, his worse record thus far is 500. His stats the last couple years are among the best, he has lead multiple 4 quarter drives to win the game or take the lead late. He plays in the toughest market in the nfl with some of the most egotistical players and has not lashed out or let it affect his play. He has been roug, hed up a few times and started every game since his first. Eli is in the conversation with anybody except Peyton, and possibly Brady and Brees.

Eli has played well with whoever is at WR, he revived Toomers career, turned Plax into a star, has made Smith one of the most respected wr's in football and has so far made Nicks a star. Not saying those players didn't or don't have a lot of talent but Eli has had an effect on their careers.

 

Romo has the talent of anyone, but his intagibles and penchant for throwing the bad pick keep him out of the discussion. Before he was hurt he led his team, which by all rights was likely the most all in all talented team in footbal to a 1 and 4 record and before that HE has lost playoff games.

 

Donovan was one of the best qb's ever, nothing but respect for him, but I can't in good faith put him in the top 5 anymore.

 

Rothlisberger is Eli's equal, they are both great on the football field.

 

Orton, the guy who was benched for Rex Grossman?

 

Call it the D all you want, Eli keeps proving every game he is among the best current QB's

 

I disagree with the part I bolded above. Why shouldn't Eli be mentioned with Peyton, Brady, and Brees? I'm not a statistiation but can someone please bring up the winning percentages, completion percentages, and all the things we like to measure QBs with and just tell me where each one stands in the 7th year of their NFL career?

 

When I said Eli is #1 and that's it.. most of you dismissed it as me simply being a Giants fan.. well.. Eli to me is #1. I wouldn't want Peyton over Eli.. as great as Peyton has been. Same goes for the other two.

[Balloonknot]

This should end your debate. How many games has Rothlisberger missed since being named the Starter of the Steelers?

 

How Many Games has Eli missed?

[JMFP]

joe, this is the issue the dog has on all of this. it wasn't long ago that after the giants won the super bowl you were placing eli ahead of better QBs because he had a super bowl ring (at the time this included guys like brees...etc...). now a QB who has been just as much of, if not more of a winner during the same stretch of time, has one more super bowl ring and he suddenly doesn't rank as high in part because the defense carried him in the first super bowl...you know what, the defense carried the giants through that whole run. did manning play solid, mistake free football? yes. but stop ignoring the fact that the defense was the thread that held that together.

 

anyway, roethlisberger has been more of a winnner and has two rings...keep it consistent.

 

Dog....you'll note that I was responding to a very specific comment by Boohyah - that if he were building a franchise, he would select Rothlisberger over Eli.

 

When framed in such a matter, I believe it is germane to include statistics and character. It's one of the reasons why most of the NFL passed on Randy Moss after he was waived by the Vikings, for example.

 

Here's how the QBs compare:

 

Rothlisberger:

 

• 2 Super Bowl Victories (one of which he actually helped to win)
  
• 2 accusations of sexual assault
  
• 1 near-death motorcycle accident
  
• A laundry list of accounts detailing his obnoxious behavior over the years.
  
• Numerous missed starts due to injury and suspension.
  
• 1 Former Super Bowl Icon (Terry Bradshaw) who thinks he is a douche bag.
  

 

Eli Manning

• 1 Super Bowl victory
  
• 0 accusations of sexual assault
  
• 0 near deah motorcycle accidents
  
• 0 accounts of obnoxious behaviour
  
• 0 missed starts.
  
• 1 Former Super Bowl Icon (Phil Simms) who thinks he is a tremendous player.
  

 

So, assuming my information is correct, imagine you are an NFL owner. Who do you pick?

 

Do you go with the guy who has won it twice, against inferior competition

Or, do you go with the guy who outplayed the best team in NFL history?

 

Keep in mind that before Plaxico (another head case) ruined the Giants season, Eli had beaten Rothlisberger and Warner that same season.

 

Would you really pick a guy who is acknowledged as a complete dick with no regard for anyone but himself? A guy who will literally fuck over drunk girls...someone who couldn't gie a shit that a Steelers legend thinks he's an asshole? A guy that was denied the captain vote because he's let down his team? A guy that 39% of the fan base actually wanted to see cut from the team? A guy that doens't even get along with his best wide receiver?

 

Or do you go with the guy who has proven he can win it all, against all odds, and who keeps healthy, is a model citizen, and mentor for his young receivers....a guy that gets his entire team to back him up when a former great like Tiki Barber criticizes him?

 

To me, this is simple....I'd go with Eli Manning in a heartbeak over Rothlisberger. The risk/reward isn't even remotely close.

 

Last time I checked, Eli was running the #2 offense in the league.....they'd easily be #1 if they weren't putting away their opponents by the 3rd quarter.

[Virginia Giant]

I disagree with the part I bolded above. Why shouldn't Eli be mentioned with Peyton, Brady, and Brees? I'm not a statistiation but can someone please bring up the winning percentages, completion percentages, and all the things we like to measure QBs with and just tell me where each one stands in the 7th year of their NFL career?

 

When I said Eli is #1 and that's it.. most of you dismissed it as me simply being a Giants fan.. well.. Eli to me is #1. I wouldn't want Peyton over Eli.. as great as Peyton has been. Same goes for the other two.

No offense Nas, but if I were starting a team and could pick any player in the history of football, I'm probly starting with Peyton. He consistantly won, with a defense who's only job for most of his career is to keep the opposing team under 30 points (and even then nhe still wins) with a rushing attack that has always been less than stellar. Peyton has the decision making ability, the ability to place the ball that is unbelievable. And like Midas said, put nanybody off the street in a wide receiver number and Peyton turns them into a super star, it's just incredible how they have gone through wr's, and even a new TE and instantly they become stars.

 

And with an average Defense and average rushing attack he could have realistically had 2 or 3 perfect seasons if Indy didn't rest the starters late in the season.

 

 

 

A lot of the same with Brady, he just keeps winning, has all the intagibles.

 

Eli is a great QB, despite the Dog's criticism. And he also has the Peyton like ability to make his wr's great. Now I'm not saying our weren't more highly touted than some of Indy's wr's, but Eli always seems to have great wr's to throw to. Thats not a coincidence.

[ksm7]

Dog....you'll note that I was responding to a very specific comment by Boohyah - that if he were building a franchise, he would select Rothlisberger over Eli.

 

When framed in such a matter, I believe it is germane to include statistics and character. It's one of the reasons why most of the NFL passed on Randy Moss after he was waived by the Vikings, for example.

 

Here's how the QBs compare:

 

Rothlisberger:

 

• 2 Super Bowl Victories (one of which he actually helped to win)
  
• 2 accusations of sexual assault
  
• 1 near-death motorcycle accident
  
• A laundry list of accounts detailing his obnoxious behavior over the years.
  
• Numerous missed starts due to injury and suspension.
  
• 1 Former Super Bowl Icon (Terry Bradshaw) who thinks he is a douche bag.
  

 

Eli Manning

• 1 Super Bowl victory
  
• 0 accusations of sexual assault
  
• 0 near deah motorcycle accidents
  
• 0 accounts of obnoxious behaviour
  
• 0 missed starts.
  
• 1 Former Super Bowl Icon (Phil Simms) who thinks he is a tremendous player.
  

 

So, assuming my information is correct, imagine you are an NFL owner. Who do you pick?

 

Do you go with the guy who has won it twice, against inferior competition

Or, do you go with the guy who outplayed the best team in NFL history?

 

Keep in mind that before Plaxico (another head case) ruined the Giants season, Eli had beaten Rothlisberger and Warner that same season.

 

Would you really pick a guy who is acknowledged as a complete dick with no regard for anyone but himself? A guy who will literally fuck over drunk girls...someone who couldn't gie a shit that a Steelers legend thinks he's an asshole? A guy that was denied the captain vote because he's let down his team? A guy that 39% of the fan base actually wanted to see cut from the team? A guy that doens't even get along with his best wide receiver?

 

Or do you go with the guy who has proven he can win it all, against all odds, and who keeps healthy, is a model citizen, and mentor for his young receivers....a guy that gets his entire team to back him up when a former great like Tiki Barber criticizes him?

 

To me, this is simple....I'd go with Eli Manning in a heartbeak over Rothlisberger. The risk/reward isn't even remotely close.

 

Last time I checked, Eli was running the #2 offense in the league.....they'd easily be #1 if they weren't putting away their opponents by the 3rd quarter.

 

well, the dog would say it is simple to make an argument for the player you prefer when all you do is frame everything in the perspective you want. the dog could focus on and highlight the fact that roethlisberger has better numbers in just about every statistical category in fewer games played, has about the same winning percentage in his career, and has one more superbowl win and a better playoff record and say there is no debate. as for his off the field crap, hasn't seemed to impact the team when they support him on the field, and the dog is sure every steeler fan out there will say the same thing most of you said when burress went and screwed up for the 10th and final time - win on the field, get the ring, and so be it.