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NY Post's Q&A wtih Steve Tisch


Nas

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Plax was a big factor in 2007. Didn't do a whole lot in 2008 except as a diversion. Our season fell apart in 2008 not just because of Burress, but because Jacobs was injured; our line burned out due to the loss of Strahan and Osi, and our defensive tackles were both injured by the end of the season.

 

Still, there is a big difference in trying to replace Burress with Dominik Hixon (2008) and a combination of Manningham and Nicks (2009). I seem to have this argument every month or so, but I still believe the WR unit on a whole was much more effective than the unit in 2007--not that any one of the receivers in 2009 was better than Burress, but the sum of the parts were better than the sum of Burress/Toomer.

 

To me, it was just like Tiki Barber was a better running back than Jacobs, but he wasn't better than the running tandem we had in 2008. (Tiki is still an ass, though.)

 

And I'm sorry, but I just don't pity a guy that walks into a club with a loaded gun without a permit, and obviously not with the gun secured properly. It shows a total disregard for the people around him. I can't respect that, just like I don't really respect LT as a person.

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I don't know Naz. The Giants front office has never been keen on keeping troubled players that make the wrong kind of news. I figured that A.P. was going to be cut after the season - not only for shoddy play, but for being right in the middle of the Plax situation. The Giants have always been a class organization (unlike classless Dallas) and don't want their players in the news for the wrong reasons.

 

But who knows. I wonder what kind of shape Plax is in and if he could even get back to football form. If the Giants ever brought him back into the fold, I imagine he'd have a set of rules to live by that would be ten pages long and would be living under a microscope. The way fans are in NYC, he'd be booed for every mistake he made early on, but they would quickly get behind him and cheer him madly if he was making game changing plays.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you.. where I differ is Plax is not a terrible person... he's a man who made mistakes and if he's willing to shape up, who of us can say no to 2nd chances? If you all recall correctly I was his biggest critic.. the towel tackle against Dallas still haunts me and when he played like a man possessed (which is what I thought he was capable of doing), I praised him. I can't say I was surprised Plax made a bonehead decision... his interview with Pam Oliver before the incident revealed a troubled (not evil) young man. He has a better personality than Randy Moss and Marshall. I think the Giants giving him a chance will work well for both the man.. and the organization.. and for that matter.. us fans. Fuck the jets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know the jets had nothing to do with this but why not.

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Nice to know you're in the locker room every week to know exactly what his contribution to "teamwork" was.

 

Storm, have you read up on Plaxico's exit from Pittsburgh? If his Pittsburgh days are any indication, along with what we do know about his tenure with the Giants, its a pretty safe bet that he wasn't exactly the most team-friendly player on the roster. Its sort of funny, you're getting snarky with Tree when he's just repeating the well-verified conventional wisdom regarding Plax.

 

The athleticism the Giants lost when Plax went down could very easily have been offset by the intangibles they gained by his absence. Its one of those maybe, maybe not things...and we can go round and round on that forever, its the classic intangibles vs. athleticism argument. Where I draw the line is this revisionist history, recasting Plaxico as a paragon of teamwork.

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He was good, of course. And having him yanked out of the offense during the season left a huge hole that your favorite Hixon couldn't fill. It's no mystery as to why we were 11-1 then lost 3 of the final 4 games.

 

Yup...thats when Antonio Pierce and the pass defense completely fell apart.

 

Losing Plax hurt the running game more than it did the passing game. Dude was a hell of a blocker and one nice diversion for the defense, even when he didn't have his head in the game.

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Yup...thats when Antonio Pierce and the pass defense completely fell apart.

 

Losing Plax hurt the running game more than it did the passing game. Dude was a hell of a blocker and one nice diversion for the defense, even when he didn't have his head in the game.

We scored an average of 10.5 points less per game in those final four games. We averaged a very healthy 29.3 ppg in the 12 proceeding, 18.75 after. The D was only giving up 22 ppg. The D was worse for sure (mostly because they were on the field more) but it was our flaccid offense that cost us the games.

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I'm not disagreeing with you.. where I differ is Plax is not a terrible person... he's a man who made mistakes and if he's willing to shape up, who of us can say no to 2nd chances? If you all recall correctly I was his biggest critic.. the towel tackle against Dallas still haunts me and when he played like a man possessed (which is what I thought he was capable of doing), I praised him. I can't say I was surprised Plax made a bonehead decision... his interview with Pam Oliver before the incident revealed a troubled (not evil) young man. He has a better personality than Randy Moss and Marshall. I think the Giants giving him a chance will work well for both the man.. and the organization.. and for that matter.. us fans. Fuck the jets.

 

 

I know the jets had nothing to do with this but why not.

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedy about Plax. He's a troubled soul who has made bad (even stupid) decisions and needs to have a coach teach him how to organize his life, but he is by no means evil or even a bad person. I think all the players on the team liked him alot and I think he really loved being a Giant. His breaking down and crying after the Superbowl win was the reaction of an emotional, yet tender hearted kind of guy. It's impossible to hate the guy....for me anyway.

 

I was certainly disappointed in the gun incident and it pissed me off that he would be so careless. I also think Blomberg was a complete asshole for going out of his way to make sure Plax was made into an example, especially when he refuses to get involved with any similar incidents involving celebrity status people like politicians, news people, or professional ball players. In just about any other area in the country, it would've been a 100 dollar fine (most likely waived in about 40 of the states) and a 50 dollar court fee since it was nothing more than an accident where no malice or ill-intent was involved. Nearly all celebrities pack (that's an unknown fact of life) and it's winked at by authorities everywhere because they understand the situation that celebs face. Yeah, Plax's permit was for Florida, but no celebrity that carries has permits from every state they are in. It would've been smart for Plax to get a permit for NJ and NY, but he didn't (just another bad decision).

 

Regardless...Plax has definitely paid his debt to society for a misdeed and served his time - even though it was excessive thanks to the Mayor of NYC. Once a person has paid his debt to society, he deserves to be treated just like any other man.

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We scored an average of 10.5 points less per game in those final four games. We averaged a very healthy 29.3 ppg in the 12 proceeding, 18.75 after. The D was only giving up 22 ppg. The D was worse for sure (mostly because they were on the field more) but it was our flaccid offense that cost us the games.

 

True, but those were pretty good defenses in those last four games (Philly, Dallas, Carolina, and Minnesota, IIRC), so PPG would have dropped with or without the Plax.

 

There was a pretty good statistical breakdown of it on footballoutsiders.com a year or so back, maybe I can dig it up...their conclusion was it was the Giants pass defense that fell off more so than the offense.

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True, but those were pretty good defenses in those last four games (Philly, Dallas, Carolina, and Minnesota, IIRC), so PPG would have dropped with or without the Plax.

 

There was a pretty good statistical breakdown of it on footballoutsiders.com a year or so back, maybe I can dig it up...their conclusion was it was the Giants pass defense that fell off more so than the offense.

I don't know about that. We put up 35 & 36 points against the Eagles & Boys in weeks 9 & 10, then only 14 & 8 (fucking 8!) points against the same teams in weeks 14 & 15. Meanwhile the D gave up 22.5 ppg (averaged) in weeks 9 & 10, then a nearly identical 20 ppg in 14 & 15.

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Yup...thats when Antonio Pierce and the pass defense completely fell apart.

 

Losing Plax hurt the running game more than it did the passing game. Dude was a hell of a blocker and one nice diversion for the defense, even when he didn't have his head in the game.

 

Yah, that's what I'm saying.

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Storm, have you read up on Plaxico's exit from Pittsburgh? If his Pittsburgh days are any indication, along with what we do know about his tenure with the Giants, its a pretty safe bet that he wasn't exactly the most team-friendly player on the roster. Its sort of funny, you're getting snarky with Tree when he's just repeating the well-verified conventional wisdom regarding Plax.

 

The athleticism the Giants lost when Plax went down could very easily have been offset by the intangibles they gained by his absence. Its one of those maybe, maybe not things...and we can go round and round on that forever, its the classic intangibles vs. athleticism argument. Where I draw the line is this revisionist history, recasting Plaxico as a paragon of teamwork.

 

Yah, I'M the one getting snarky with tree. I stated my opinion and argument that we were a better team with Burress and he took one small part of that statement that was meant as a comparison...that other teams, while maybe not quite so upstanding and class acts of the NFL, don't give a shit if their players commit ATROCIOUS crimes, yet Burress accidentally fucks his season up and it's like he raped a child....and determined it was a "piss-weak" argument without even providing his own argument until someone else also made the observation he didn't provide an argument.

 

Look, I respect the opinion that Burress "fucked our 2008 season up" and is the sole reason we didn't get to the Super Bowl. I just don't believe it. In fact, if that WAS the case, that's all the more reason to go for a guy like Burress who can command a double-team *gasp* and spread the field, opening up the run game and the middle of the field for Kevin Boss (who IS, currently, better than Shockey).

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Yah, I'M the one getting snarky with tree. I stated my opinion and argument that we were a better team with Burress and he took one small part of that statement that was meant as a comparison...that other teams, while maybe not quite so upstanding and class acts of the NFL, don't give a shit if their players commit ATROCIOUS crimes, yet Burress accidentally fucks his season up and it's like he raped a child....and determined it was a "piss-weak" argument without even providing his own argument until someone else also made the observation he didn't provide an argument.

 

Look, I respect the opinion that Burress "fucked our 2008 season up" and is the sole reason we didn't get to the Super Bowl. I just don't believe it. In fact, if that WAS the case, that's all the more reason to go for a guy like Burress who can command a double-team *gasp* and spread the field, opening up the run game and the middle of the field for Kevin Boss (who IS, currently, better than Shockey).

Your comparison was, and still is piss-weak. Lewis wasn't convicted, didn't go to jail and didn't cost his team anything. No one can deny he's a team leader, a positive locker room presence and probably the best player on the field. Even so I'd bet most NFL fans still think he's a scumbag, and the Ravens are a scummy organisation.

 

Plax was convicted, endangered another teammate who could easily have gone to jail for helping him, cost us a season, was a poor teammate and nothing in the way of a team leader. By the time he gets out of jail he'll be 2.5 years out of football, 33, have his best playing years behind him and it would be doubtful if he'd have any upside over our current receiving corps at all.

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Your comparison was, and still is piss-weak. Lewis wasn't convicted, didn't go to jail and didn't cost his team anything. No one can deny he's a team leader, a positive locker room presence and probably the best player on the field. Even so I'd bet most NFL fans still think he's a scumbag, and the Ravens are a scummy organisation.

 

Plax was convicted, endangered another teammate who could easily have gone to jail for helping him, cost us a season, was a poor teammate and nothing in the way of a team leader. By the time he gets out of jail he'll be 2.5 years out of football, 33, have his best playing years behind him and it would be doubtful if he'd have any upside over our current receiving corps at all.

 

Obviously, no one cares in the NFL about hiring scumbags. Michael Vick is a millionaire once again. Shawn Merriman, who is a good comparison to this exact Burress situation which seems to be your nitpick. If he makes your team better, who cares, no one besides this board and the Giants organization seems to. Lewis didn't cost his team with all the DISTRACTIONS that his case caused? That's your big deal about this, the distraction to the team.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think players like that deserve second chances and I don't want my team known as a scummy organization, but if everyone else besides like the Giants and Steelers is going to, why not?

 

No one is going to argue that Burress isn't the best WR we've had talent wise in a long, long time...maybe not numbers wise because Smith puts up better numbers, but as far as affecting the whole team offense, Burress gets the nod, obviously.

 

As I and others have stated, he wasn't a poor teammate. You didn't hear Eli Manning someone who was actually his teammate unlike you or the media, ever say a bad thing about him.

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Obviously, no one cares in the NFL about hiring scumbags. Michael Vick is a millionaire once again. Shawn Merriman, who is a good comparison to this exact Burress situation which seems to be your nitpick. If he makes your team better, who cares, no one besides this board and the Giants organization seems to. Lewis didn't cost his team with all the DISTRACTIONS that his case caused? That's your big deal about this, the distraction to the team.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think players like that deserve second chances and I don't want my team known as a scummy organization, but if everyone else besides like the Giants and Steelers is going to, why not?

 

No one is going to argue that Burress isn't the best WR we've had talent wise in a long, long time...maybe not numbers wise because Smith puts up better numbers, but as far as affecting the whole team offense, Burress gets the nod, obviously.

 

As I and others have stated, he wasn't a poor teammate. You didn't hear Eli Manning someone who was actually his teammate unlike you or the media, ever say a bad thing about him.

Distraction? No. ABSENCE, mid-season.

 

I never said Plax wasn't a good player, quite the opposite. 2007 Plax was great, despite the injury. 2008 Plax was pretty average statistically and had a questionable work ethic but still added a dimension to our offense on game day that was clearly needed. Plax was good, past tense, but I think overall we're in a better place now without him and I don't think him returning in 2011 would make us a better team.

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I don't know about that. We put up 35 & 36 points against the Eagles & Boys in weeks 9 & 10, then only 14 & 8 (fucking 8!) points against the same teams in weeks 14 & 15. Meanwhile the D gave up 22.5 ppg (averaged) in weeks 9 & 10, then a nearly identical 20 ppg in 14 & 15.

 

Thats a good point. Looking at a breakdown of the passing game & running game though, you can tell that the passing stats are pretty much identical, its the running game that really hits the wall...over 400 yards rushing in weeks 9 & 10, 160 yards rushing in weeks 14 & 15. There's your difference in ppg right there.

 

Truth is I'm sort of parroting an article I read on footballoutsiders.com...I've love to link to it, but their site search sucks ass. I don't know what sort of statistical games they're playing, but they did predict based on the last few games of 2008 that the Giants pass defense from the LBs (::cough:: AP::cough::) would suck in 2009. So they got that right, but I'm not seeing it in the 2008 box scores the way I expected to, soooo... rather than talk out my ass I'll just STFU on that point.

 

But I think we can infer from simple box score stats that Plax helped the running game moreso than the passing game.

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Yah, I'M the one getting snarky with tree. I stated my opinion and argument that we were a better team with Burress and he took one small part of that statement that was meant as a comparison...that other teams, while maybe not quite so upstanding and class acts of the NFL, don't give a shit if their players commit ATROCIOUS crimes, yet Burress accidentally fucks his season up and it's like he raped a child....and determined it was a "piss-weak" argument without even providing his own argument until someone else also made the observation he didn't provide an argument.

 

'Accidentally'? Putting a loaded hand gun in his waist band was no accident. lol.

 

But I get it, I know what you mean...Burress isn't a 'bad' guy...he's just a stupid, immature guy. Where I took exception to your response to Tree is this: Tree was right about Burress's locker room impact. It doesn't matter if the other players like him or not; 'like' has no inherent importance, 'like' is even be a negative if the well-liked guy is a bad influence.

 

And Plax has a long history in this respect. I know, we aren't in the locker rooms, but stories leak out...for example, Big Ben liked Plax. Liked him so much that he and Plax went behind their OC's back and were drawing up Plax-centric plays in the dirt, diverging from the OC's called play. Thats why Plax got run out of Pittsburgh, they wouldn't have resigned him for anything because they were concerned he'd ruin Roethlisberger (who evidently didn't need any help from Plax to turn shithead, in a fair world he would be serving a few years in Plax's stead).

 

Look, I respect the opinion that Burress "fucked our 2008 season up" and is the sole reason we didn't get to the Super Bowl. I just don't believe it. In fact, if that WAS the case, that's all the more reason to go for a guy like Burress who can command a double-team *gasp* and spread the field, opening up the run game and the middle of the field for Kevin Boss (who IS, currently, better than Shockey).

 

I fully agree. But additionally, if only it were as simple to just go get a replacement Burress...its not just Burress drawing double teams that helped the offense so much, its that he was a hell of a blocker, he always took his guy out of the play. The double-team plus the sure block put the running game a man up on the defense, play after play. That was a huge advantage, immediately missed.

 

But I can't be the only one who noticed miscommunications in the passing game were notably fewer after Burress left the line-up and the passing stats, a year later at least, were notably improved. So in my mind, its not enough of a benefit to consider bringing him back, IMO.

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But I think we can infer from simple box score stats that Plax helped the running game moreso than the passing game.

No doubt, like I said before Plax was having a pretty damn average 2008 season. He was only on track for about 600 yards and 5-6 TDs. But he did bring a dimension to our game that opposing defenses had to account for, thus helping the run game.

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'Accidentally'? Putting a loaded hand gun in his waist band was no accident. lol.

 

But I get it, I know what you mean...Burress isn't a 'bad' guy...he's just a stupid, immature guy. Where I took exception to your response to Tree is this: Tree was right about Burress's locker room impact. It doesn't matter if the other players like him or not; 'like' has no inherent importance, 'like' is even be a negative if the well-liked guy is a bad influence.

 

And Plax has a long history in this respect. I know, we aren't in the locker rooms, but stories leak out...for example, Big Ben liked Plax. Liked him so much that he and Plax went behind their OC's back and were drawing up Plax-centric plays in the dirt, diverging from the OC's called play. Thats why Plax got run out of Pittsburgh, they wouldn't have resigned him for anything because they were concerned he'd ruin Roethlisberger (who evidently didn't need any help from Plax to turn shithead, in a fair world he would be serving a few years in Plax's stead).

 

 

 

I fully agree. But additionally, if only it were as simple to just go get a replacement Burress...its not just Burress drawing double teams that helped the offense so much, its that he was a hell of a blocker, he always took his guy out of the play. The double-team plus the sure block put the running game a man up on the defense, play after play. That was a huge advantage, immediately missed.

 

But I can't be the only one who noticed miscommunications in the passing game were notably fewer after Burress left the line-up and the passing stats, a year later at least, were notably improved. So in my mind, its not enough of a benefit to consider bringing him back, IMO.

 

Had he not gotten caught because the gun accidentally went off, none of it would have mattered.

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No doubt, like I said before Plax was having a pretty damn average 2008 season. He was only on track for about 600 yards and 5-6 TDs. But he did bring a dimension to our game that opposing defenses had to account for, thus helping the run game.

 

Absolutely. But the optimist in me thinks Nicks and Smith will collectively spread out the defense more than Burress & Toomer ever did.

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Hypothetically, if we still suck at linebacker say, in 2 years, and Shawn Merriman becomes a free agent, would you want him on the team despite his distractions and problems off the field? Just curious...

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Hypothetically, if we still suck at linebacker say, in 2 years, and Shawn Merriman becomes a free agent, would you want him on the team despite his distractions and problems off the field? Just curious...

 

 

Shawn Merriman may well be on the downside of his career already, and the Giants have already said that they want nothing to do with him. There are several guys I'd want before him right now.

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Hypothetically, if we still suck at linebacker say, in 2 years, and Shawn Merriman becomes a free agent, would you want him on the team despite his distractions and problems off the field? Just curious...

I don't want a roid abuser with a questionable knee, no.

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Hypothetically, if we still suck at linebacker say, in 2 years, and Shawn Merriman becomes a free agent, would you want him on the team despite his distractions and problems off the field? Just curious...

 

Probably not, he's a 3-4 OLB and the Giants are stacked with guys like that.

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