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Lughead

By Lughead
in New York Giants

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Lughead

Lughead

Posted
Posted

Matt Stover he has been in the league 19 years . So has Carney who is also a free agent along with Martin Gramatica, that's it just 3 vets on the FA list ....well as per Scout.com.

 

Thoughts?

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Treehugger

Treehugger

Posted
Posted

Stover's leg has weakened, his kickoffs aren't great and his >40 yard average sucks (56%).

 

Gramatica has nice kick-offs still but is crap outside 40 yards (2 of 5 last season - 40%).

 

Carney is weak as piss on KOs but better over 40 than the previous two (72%).

 

In conclusion we need someone younger and we'll all rue the day Reese refused my demands to draft Gano in the 7th.

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fishgutmartyr

fishgutmartyr

Posted
Posted

Stover's leg has weakened, his kickoffs aren't great and his >40 yard average sucks (56%).

 

Gramatica has nice kick-offs still but is crap outside 40 yards (2 of 5 last season - 40%).

 

Carney is weak as piss on KOs but better over 40 than the previous two (72%).

 

In conclusion we need someone younger and we'll all rue the day Reese refused my demands to draft Gano in the 7th.

Well, we got Stoney Woodson in the seventh, and he might make the team. So I'm not sure if we got such a bad deal.

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JackStroud

JackStroud

Posted
Posted

Stover's leg has weakened, his kickoffs aren't great and his >40 yard average sucks (56%).

 

Gramatica has nice kick-offs still but is crap outside 40 yards (2 of 5 last season - 40%).

 

Carney is weak as piss on KOs but better over 40 than the previous two (72%).

 

In conclusion we need someone younger and we'll all rue the day Reese refused my demands to draft Gano in the 7th.

 

Were you watching the Giant games last year??........Carney was putting the KOs between the 5 and ) yd lines and had great hang time.........the problem was the return coverage stunk

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Treehugger

Treehugger

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Were you watching the Giant games last year??........Carney was putting the KOs between the 5 and ) yd lines and had great hang time.........the problem was the return coverage stunk

That's not it Jack. Again, 43rd for Kick Off Average and 33rd for Touch Backs (only 3!). The Return Average wasn't bad and lower than most full-time kickers (10th when you remove all the P who kicked once). It wasn't the coverage it was the kicker. Rhys Lloyd from CAR had ten times more touch backs. Three kickers had over 30% of their kicks touched back. Carney had 3.8%.

 

You're right about him kicking to the 5; his average was 60.4 yards. That effort was ranked 36th among full-time kickers. With an average return of 21.8 yards.

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JackStroud

JackStroud

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That's not it Jack. Again, 43rd for Kick Off Average and 33rd for Touch Backs (only 3!). The Return Average wasn't bad and lower than most full-time kickers (10th when you remove all the P who kicked once). It wasn't the coverage it was the kicker. Rhys Lloyd from CAR had ten times more touch backs. Three kickers had over 30% of their kicks touched back. Carney had 3.8%.

 

You're right about him kicking to the 5; his average was 60.4 yards. That effort was ranked 36th among full-time kickers. With an average return of 21.8 yards.

 

hey genius there are two components to kicking depth and hang time.......Carney got it up there that's why we were 10th.......and the kick coverage was fair to average........no Justin Tucks and David Tyree's to maul people

 

line drives to the goal line are an invitation to disaster........and Tynes not only hit line drives he has no directional control whatsoever

Carney and Feagles went to the Pro Bowl for their ability to control where their kicks went and for nerves of steel

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JackStroud

JackStroud

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But you just said the return coverage stunk. Which is it?

 

Give me a kicker who forced touch backs occasionally. Not too much to ask.

 

 

hahahhaha

 

ok thats your criteria for a good kicker

 

fgs are just a throw in????

 

i said the return coverage stunk......in my book fair to average stinks

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Allstarjim

Allstarjim

Posted
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hahahhaha

 

ok thats your criteria for a good kicker

 

fgs are just a throw in????

 

i said the return coverage stunk......in my book fair to average stinks

 

 

Actually, I could easily argue that giving the opponent very good to excellent starting position after every kickoff is more important than the difference (assuming there is one, which may be a stretch) of a replacement kicker regarding accuracy on a few field goals over the course of the year.

 

In other words, would you rather have a guy who kicks it very accurately through the uprights on medium to short-range field goals, but gives your opponent great field position off of every kickoff.... or would you rather have a guy that may miss a couple of those field goals over the course of a season (but might make a couple more long ones that would be out of Carney's range), but is able to kick it on kickoffs so that you give your defense a chance to start out the possession around the opponent's 20 a good percentage of the time?

 

Personally, considering how important field position can be during the course of every game, I'll take the latter.

 

Jack has an interesting memory. To him, Carney was great on kickoffs, despite him never able to kick deep. The coverage was terrible, despite us having a special team gunner make the pro bowl (Zack DeOssie).

 

To Jack, Carney is one of the best kickers in the game, and can't understand how nobody else can see that. To every other Giants fan on this board, and the Giants organization, he is not better than a mediocre Lawrence Tynes.

 

But of course all of us are wrong, and Jack is right.

 

When will you get it, Jack? If you want a guy who can consistently hit 40 yard fg's or less in good weather or off the indoor turf, Carney is your guy. If you want your kicker to be able to do that, but also be able to kick it deep and give your defense some field to work with, you don't want Carney. Did you see the stats Tree gave? If he was 43rd in kickoff average that means he was worse than the other 31 starting kickers in the NFL, PLUS 11 OTHERS! His average kickoff distance was ranked 36th in the NFL, making him worse than the other 31 other kickers in the NFL, PLUS 4 OTHERS!

 

THE WORST, JACK! IN THE NFL! All this and as Tree showed, our coverage team was ranked 10th in the NFL.

 

So Jack, you are the one who has the fuzzy memory. It's you who WE should be asking, "What games were YOU watching last year?"

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fringe

fringe

Posted
Posted

did not mind Carney's kickoffs. He kicked to a spot on the left hash mark on about the 15 or so and the ST

 

converged on the ball handler around the 30- that's fine with me. he was the feagles of kickoffs.

 

i would say from observation(i have no evidence so go ahead and prove me wrong) that most long returns start with a long kickoff.

 

now i wouldn't mind a few touchbacks but at what cost? with our defense, any drive starting from the 35 in is manageable.

 

btw, tree- those stats you are quoting would have to discount west coast kickers and dome kickers because it's too much of an advantage.

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JackStroud

JackStroud

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Posted

did not mind Carney's kickoffs. He kicked to a spot on the left hash mark on about the 15 or so and the ST

 

converged on the ball handler around the 30- that's fine with me. he was the feagles of kickoffs.

 

i would say from observation(i have no evidence so go ahead and prove me wrong) that most long returns start with a long kickoff.

 

now i wouldn't mind a few touchbacks but at what cost? with our defense, any drive starting from the 35 in is manageable.

 

btw, tree- those stats you are quoting would have to discount west coast kickers and dome kickers because it's too much of an advantage.

 

his kicks did not land at the 15 thats an exageration......more like the 5

 

the guy was a dead cinch certainty inside the 40 and pretty good outside it

 

tynes hits a curve ball.............even when it goes through its not pretty..........i think he shanked one behind the dugout in green bay

 

you fools are giving up a sure 3 pts everytime we penetrated enemy territory to argue over 5-7 kick off yds

 

carneys ko's were high........good hang time

]

I don't see us winning a SB until Coughlin is gone.........he just does not want or need it enough

 

lets carney go

promotes a d co-ordinator with no league search

gets upset about a camp fight

brings in no VET WR

plays a "Fat Prison Guard" at MLBer

 

he just wants to play out his contract and rock no boats..........that wont cut it in the NFL

 

we're doomed

 

I'm going to root for the Giants to meet Spags in the NFC Championship and frankly would not mind Spags handing the Giants mangement a deadly blow

they were absolute fools to keep old man coughlin and let spags go

 

were sitting pat.......actually regressing and no one seems to give a rats a..

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Treehugger

Treehugger

Posted
Posted

did not mind Carney's kickoffs. He kicked to a spot on the left hash mark on about the 15 or so and the ST

 

converged on the ball handler around the 30- that's fine with me. he was the feagles of kickoffs.

 

i would say from observation(i have no evidence so go ahead and prove me wrong) that most long returns start with a long kickoff.

 

now i wouldn't mind a few touchbacks but at what cost? with our defense, any drive starting from the 35 in is manageable.

 

btw, tree- those stats you are quoting would have to discount west coast kickers and dome kickers because it's too much of an advantage.

I think I can argue that, for kick-offs, wind averages out somewhat over the course of a season. Sometimes with, sometimes against.

 

Having 2-3 touchbacks PER GAME (not per season) is a huge advantage for the D.

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Treehugger

Treehugger

Posted
Posted

hahahhaha

 

ok thats your criteria for a good kicker

 

fgs are just a throw in????

 

i said the return coverage stunk......in my book fair to average stinks

It's ONE criteria for a good kicker, douche. One that you're ignoring. Thanks for reminding me not to bother conversing with you; you'll just decide what my position is anyway.

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JackStroud

JackStroud

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Posted

It's ONE criteria for a good kicker, douche. One that you're ignoring. Thanks for reminding me not to bother conversing with you; you'll just decide what my position is anyway.

 

good idea

 

go hide behind a tree when your proven a virtual football novice

 

BTW what happened to global warming..........it snowed for the first time in london last oct in 100 years for the opening day of the global warming conference LOL

 

now we have one of the coldest summers on record

 

where is al gore when we need another lecture from a moron.........LOL

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