Lughead Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Matt Stover he has been in the league 19 years . So has Carney who is also a free agent along with Martin Gramatica, that's it just 3 vets on the FA list ....well as per Scout.com. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppodlesny Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I'd rather keep Tynes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Matt Stover he has been in the league 19 years . So has Carney who is also a free agent along with Martin Gramatica, that's it just 3 vets on the FA list ....well as per Scout.com. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 yeah bring carney back and put loose cannon Tynes on IR with his hammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Stover's leg has weakened, his kickoffs aren't great and his >40 yard average sucks (56%). Gramatica has nice kick-offs still but is crap outside 40 yards (2 of 5 last season - 40%). Carney is weak as piss on KOs but better over 40 than the previous two (72%). In conclusion we need someone younger and we'll all rue the day Reese refused my demands to draft Gano in the 7th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I already rue. You should always take a QB and a kicker in each draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppodlesny Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I already rue. You should always take a QB and a kicker in each draft. and a punter in round 1..are we talking about the Raiders drafts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Stover's leg has weakened, his kickoffs aren't great and his >40 yard average sucks (56%). Gramatica has nice kick-offs still but is crap outside 40 yards (2 of 5 last season - 40%). Carney is weak as piss on KOs but better over 40 than the previous two (72%). In conclusion we need someone younger and we'll all rue the day Reese refused my demands to draft Gano in the 7th. Well, we got Stoney Woodson in the seventh, and he might make the team. So I'm not sure if we got such a bad deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 and a punter in round 1..are we talking about the Raiders drafts? raiders may be a force this year- and ray guy was worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppodlesny Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 raiders may be a force this year- and ray guy was worth it. Ray Guy was an anomaly...the guy was unbelievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Ray Guy was an anomaly...the guy was unbelievable travesty he's not in the HOF, Stabler too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Stover's leg has weakened, his kickoffs aren't great and his >40 yard average sucks (56%). Gramatica has nice kick-offs still but is crap outside 40 yards (2 of 5 last season - 40%). Carney is weak as piss on KOs but better over 40 than the previous two (72%). In conclusion we need someone younger and we'll all rue the day Reese refused my demands to draft Gano in the 7th. Were you watching the Giant games last year??........Carney was putting the KOs between the 5 and ) yd lines and had great hang time.........the problem was the return coverage stunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Were you watching the Giant games last year??........Carney was putting the KOs between the 5 and ) yd lines and had great hang time.........the problem was the return coverage stunk That's not it Jack. Again, 43rd for Kick Off Average and 33rd for Touch Backs (only 3!). The Return Average wasn't bad and lower than most full-time kickers (10th when you remove all the P who kicked once). It wasn't the coverage it was the kicker. Rhys Lloyd from CAR had ten times more touch backs. Three kickers had over 30% of their kicks touched back. Carney had 3.8%. You're right about him kicking to the 5; his average was 60.4 yards. That effort was ranked 36th among full-time kickers. With an average return of 21.8 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 That's not it Jack. Again, 43rd for Kick Off Average and 33rd for Touch Backs (only 3!). The Return Average wasn't bad and lower than most full-time kickers (10th when you remove all the P who kicked once). It wasn't the coverage it was the kicker. Rhys Lloyd from CAR had ten times more touch backs. Three kickers had over 30% of their kicks touched back. Carney had 3.8%. You're right about him kicking to the 5; his average was 60.4 yards. That effort was ranked 36th among full-time kickers. With an average return of 21.8 yards. hey genius there are two components to kicking depth and hang time.......Carney got it up there that's why we were 10th.......and the kick coverage was fair to average........no Justin Tucks and David Tyree's to maul people line drives to the goal line are an invitation to disaster........and Tynes not only hit line drives he has no directional control whatsoever Carney and Feagles went to the Pro Bowl for their ability to control where their kicks went and for nerves of steel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 But you just said the return coverage stunk. Which is it? Give me a kicker who forced touch backs occasionally. Not too much to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 But you just said the return coverage stunk. Which is it? Give me a kicker who forced touch backs occasionally. Not too much to ask. hahahhaha ok thats your criteria for a good kicker fgs are just a throw in???? i said the return coverage stunk......in my book fair to average stinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 I still have no confidence in Lawrence Tynes. I'd feel more comfortable with ANY of those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 hahahhaha ok thats your criteria for a good kicker fgs are just a throw in???? i said the return coverage stunk......in my book fair to average stinks Actually, I could easily argue that giving the opponent very good to excellent starting position after every kickoff is more important than the difference (assuming there is one, which may be a stretch) of a replacement kicker regarding accuracy on a few field goals over the course of the year. In other words, would you rather have a guy who kicks it very accurately through the uprights on medium to short-range field goals, but gives your opponent great field position off of every kickoff.... or would you rather have a guy that may miss a couple of those field goals over the course of a season (but might make a couple more long ones that would be out of Carney's range), but is able to kick it on kickoffs so that you give your defense a chance to start out the possession around the opponent's 20 a good percentage of the time? Personally, considering how important field position can be during the course of every game, I'll take the latter. Jack has an interesting memory. To him, Carney was great on kickoffs, despite him never able to kick deep. The coverage was terrible, despite us having a special team gunner make the pro bowl (Zack DeOssie). To Jack, Carney is one of the best kickers in the game, and can't understand how nobody else can see that. To every other Giants fan on this board, and the Giants organization, he is not better than a mediocre Lawrence Tynes. But of course all of us are wrong, and Jack is right. When will you get it, Jack? If you want a guy who can consistently hit 40 yard fg's or less in good weather or off the indoor turf, Carney is your guy. If you want your kicker to be able to do that, but also be able to kick it deep and give your defense some field to work with, you don't want Carney. Did you see the stats Tree gave? If he was 43rd in kickoff average that means he was worse than the other 31 starting kickers in the NFL, PLUS 11 OTHERS! His average kickoff distance was ranked 36th in the NFL, making him worse than the other 31 other kickers in the NFL, PLUS 4 OTHERS! THE WORST, JACK! IN THE NFL! All this and as Tree showed, our coverage team was ranked 10th in the NFL. So Jack, you are the one who has the fuzzy memory. It's you who WE should be asking, "What games were YOU watching last year?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 did not mind Carney's kickoffs. He kicked to a spot on the left hash mark on about the 15 or so and the ST converged on the ball handler around the 30- that's fine with me. he was the feagles of kickoffs. i would say from observation(i have no evidence so go ahead and prove me wrong) that most long returns start with a long kickoff. now i wouldn't mind a few touchbacks but at what cost? with our defense, any drive starting from the 35 in is manageable. btw, tree- those stats you are quoting would have to discount west coast kickers and dome kickers because it's too much of an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 did not mind Carney's kickoffs. He kicked to a spot on the left hash mark on about the 15 or so and the ST converged on the ball handler around the 30- that's fine with me. he was the feagles of kickoffs. i would say from observation(i have no evidence so go ahead and prove me wrong) that most long returns start with a long kickoff. now i wouldn't mind a few touchbacks but at what cost? with our defense, any drive starting from the 35 in is manageable. btw, tree- those stats you are quoting would have to discount west coast kickers and dome kickers because it's too much of an advantage. his kicks did not land at the 15 thats an exageration......more like the 5 the guy was a dead cinch certainty inside the 40 and pretty good outside it tynes hits a curve ball.............even when it goes through its not pretty..........i think he shanked one behind the dugout in green bay you fools are giving up a sure 3 pts everytime we penetrated enemy territory to argue over 5-7 kick off yds carneys ko's were high........good hang time ] I don't see us winning a SB until Coughlin is gone.........he just does not want or need it enough lets carney go promotes a d co-ordinator with no league search gets upset about a camp fight brings in no VET WR plays a "Fat Prison Guard" at MLBer he just wants to play out his contract and rock no boats..........that wont cut it in the NFL we're doomed I'm going to root for the Giants to meet Spags in the NFC Championship and frankly would not mind Spags handing the Giants mangement a deadly blow they were absolute fools to keep old man coughlin and let spags go were sitting pat.......actually regressing and no one seems to give a rats a.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 did not mind Carney's kickoffs. He kicked to a spot on the left hash mark on about the 15 or so and the ST converged on the ball handler around the 30- that's fine with me. he was the feagles of kickoffs. i would say from observation(i have no evidence so go ahead and prove me wrong) that most long returns start with a long kickoff. now i wouldn't mind a few touchbacks but at what cost? with our defense, any drive starting from the 35 in is manageable. btw, tree- those stats you are quoting would have to discount west coast kickers and dome kickers because it's too much of an advantage. I think I can argue that, for kick-offs, wind averages out somewhat over the course of a season. Sometimes with, sometimes against. Having 2-3 touchbacks PER GAME (not per season) is a huge advantage for the D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 hahahhaha ok thats your criteria for a good kicker fgs are just a throw in???? i said the return coverage stunk......in my book fair to average stinks It's ONE criteria for a good kicker, douche. One that you're ignoring. Thanks for reminding me not to bother conversing with you; you'll just decide what my position is anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 It's ONE criteria for a good kicker, douche. One that you're ignoring. Thanks for reminding me not to bother conversing with you; you'll just decide what my position is anyway. good idea go hide behind a tree when your proven a virtual football novice BTW what happened to global warming..........it snowed for the first time in london last oct in 100 years for the opening day of the global warming conference LOL now we have one of the coldest summers on record where is al gore when we need another lecture from a moron.........LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Wheres John Carney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Wheres John Carney? i think he's still unsigned.....as the NFC Pro Bowl starter that won't last long I expect like all good free agents he'll wind up with the Eagles, Skins, NE, Pitts or the Cowboys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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