Allstarjim

Yeah but I don't think that was the case. I thought before that Doctson was the top receiver in the draft. I felt Coleman was right there with him and would be the first off the board. I think Michael Thomas and Braxton Miller will both be better than Treadwell. I think Shepard will be better than Treadwell. So I never saw Treadwell in the elite group of receivers IN THIS draft. I did feel some vindication that both Doctson and Coleman went ahead of Treadwell, not gonna lie.

He's was the #1 receiver in the draft according to people who are wrong. The expectation for a first round wide receiver talent is that you put up big numbers against nearly all competition, including, and especially, top competition. Treadwell didn't do that. He feasted on bad comp which is what u want to see, but was pedestrian against better defenses. That's called a 3rd round talent.

So yeah, I'm glad we didn't draft Treadwell also.

BiC I posted this pre-draft re: Treadwell on the other site: he played 8 games against at least average or better pass defenses. Those games were against 'Bama, Vandy, Florida, Texas A&M, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi State, and Fresno State. In those games, he averaged 5.375 receptions for 78 yards and 0.5 TDs. Against very bad pass defenses, which were against New Mexico State (ranked 120th out of 128 teams), Memphis (107), Arkansas (118th), and Oklahoma State (95th), he averaged 8.75 catches, 120 yards, and 1.75 TDs. Put another way, 7 of his 11 TDs came against these 4 terrible teams. 42% of his yardage total came in these 4 games (13 total games played). More than half of his receptions came in these 4 games... all this against terrible, bad, awful pass defenses. And I'm not including the Tennessee-Martin game in these individual game stats because not a Div I game and he probably didn't even play the whole game, first game of the year, but he only went for 4-44-0 in that game, as well.

I think Perkins has an upside 3rd down RB floor to him. Good pass catcher, and they say he can pass pro. In terms of every down work, we'll see. Cautiously optimistic. Agree with the glider comment.

The headline says, "Middle linebacker of the future" Joe.

No, I think they would've picked Ramsey. Ramsey is looked at as a safety by some because he did line up there with FSU at times and was fantastic, but he would still be the top corner on the board. I think the Rams viewed him as a safety because they felt that would be the position where he would most help their team. With the Jaguars it's at corner. But Ramsey would be the top corner or safety either way.

BG, I want to hate on Wentz and I just can't. I like the guy. And some of the throws I've seen him make on the move are just beautiful. I'm sure I'll find some reasons to want to piss in his cheerios as the years go by, though. I think the Eagles finally have their franchise QB, though.

The Jags view Ramsey as a corner (he can play either). *Edit, whoops, sorry bigblue, just saw you said that already.

Well, I liked other players but they all had their issues. In particular, Jonathan Williams, RB Arkansas, I was very high on him. But he missed all of 2015 because of a broken foot he had to have surgically repaired. That's a pretty big medical flag to start your career with. Alex Collins was another guy I liked, but he doesn't have the complete set of skills Perkins has, particular with respect to pass catching. Jordan Howard was there also, another RB I liked, but really similar to Collins in that Perkins is more well rounded. Collins and Howard both are more between the tackles big backs, with limited pass catching and open field wiggle, both strengths of Perkins. I liked Perkins in that he has a lot of hard to find skills, but don't believe, for a non-tackle breaker, grinding type of back, that he had the plus speed you typically look for in running backs with his size and skill set. But he does do everything pretty well, and I believe he can be a three-down running back. I fully expected the Giants to go RB in the 5th, because there was still tremendous value on the board at that position, and they did a good job getting one of those players. I actually expected them to go RB in the 4th, for the same reason. I felt that guys like Kenneth Dixon and Devontae Booker were 3rd round talents, even considering the de-valuation of the position group. Both of those guys went in the compensatory section of the 4th round, so they were off the board. Perkins was very productive and you can make a strong case that he was a big value in the 5th. For me what he has to prove is that he can add a little strength, thicken up in those legs, and be effective between the tackles. A lot of Perkins' big runs I saw were on plays where the UCLA offensive line was just opening cavernous holes for him, and really dominating the POA. Obviously, that's not going to happen at the next level, so he will need to thrive in much tighter spaces. I respect a lot of guys that saw Perkins as an upside NFL running back.

There's a guy on BBI, he posted about the Apple pick. Says he has a friend in the Rams FO. I found him to be very credible. He says they don't talk football much, when they do, it's about the Giants (not the Rams). After the pick, he texted him, and asked him how the Rams had him on their board. Guy says the Rams had Apple as the #1 corner on their board (they had Ramsey as a Safety). He went on to say that he didn't think that Apple would've been available in a trade down.... here is his exact reply with link: http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=535116 I believe the Bucs were poised to take Apple as well. The players the Giants were linked to via beat writers were: 1. Leonard Floyd, 2. Jack Conklin, Myles Jack, and Vernon Hargreaves. They knew the Bears were trading up for Floyd, and Conklin was off the board. Obviously, for the Bucs, they are sitting there thinking if they drop to 11, they think the Giants will either stop the Tunsil slide because they need a tackle (not realistic because the Giants are pretty conservative, especially in recent years with respect to character), take Jack, or take Hargreaves. That would then free them up to take Apple, the player they wanted anyway. I've heard whispers (with less evidence), that the Bucs wanted Apple also. My own personal analysis is that if you just go by how each of them played Amari Cooper in 2014, Hargreaves struggled a lot more than Apple did. Now consider Apple did that as a 19 year old. Apple is longer/taller, faster and younger than Hargreaves. According to at least two NFL teams, he was not a reach.

OK, to be fair I'm sure there may be cases where both instances are true... a trade up being a calculated move and sometimes a move of desperation or panic. But think about it, it all depends on the draft board, the remaining talent, how you have them graded, and the expected return of the desired player versus the expected return of the draft picks you give up to get that player. In this particular draft, I thought that after Conklin went off the board, you let the draft fall to you or trade back. The Giants said they didn't get a good enough offer to trade back. I can't speak to last year for sure, but I do think at times in the pass Jerry Reese has been overly inclined to trade up. Regardless, saying that picking Apple was a panic-pick... that's just foolish for someone to say, and it comes from a place of complete ignorance, as does the follow up comment of him being a "fringe first-rounder." What draft scout or publication ever had Apple sliding to the 2nd round? By far, most did not. Ourlads had him as the 13th best player in the draft. NFLDraftScout.com (CBS prospect rankings) had him as the 20th ranked player in the draft. Regardless, several NFL teams had him as their #1 corner. In fact, I'd be willing to bet he's who the Bucs were targeting at 11 when they made the trade with the Bears. I don't believe the Bucs had Hargreaves as their #1. I believe they thought the Giants would take Hargreaves, as was the rumored contingency (or they would take Tunsil), and they would then be able to draft Apple. Unless you are in the know, it's all speculation, but for Silva to wax on like he knows something is idiotic and arrogant.

Yup, it's a calculated move, not panic.

The other picks don't fit your win-now approach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oq88nFqJNY All I could think of was... obese, female version of Sam Kinison on valium.

When you think about Dallas' draft, they could've had Jalen Ramsey and Myles Jack on their defense THIS YEAR. A defense Instead, they took a RB, who, no matter how good he is, is the position with the shortest career lifespan, and took him at a pick that was the highest they've had in the draft since 1991. Now they wait (and hope) Jaylon Smith can recover and play, but also play at a level that justifies the pick. I've said it before, Jalen Ramsey was the best defensive back to come out of college in many years. The Cowboys could've waited until the 4th and gotten a RB like Devontae Booker, and still had a defense that could've been one of the best in football.

Yup.

You are correct, but IMO that's more because they were forced to because they couldn't get pressure. I don't think that's the scheme or what they want to do. I'm pretty sure Spags wants the coverage to be more press-man oriented.

It's hard not to laugh at the sheer stupidity of this clown. This fucktard actually gets paid to write this complete drivel. He may, MAY be correct about the leaks. I tend to think that he probably was. It is plausible and possible that the leaks were intentional to throw off true intention. I guarantee this fucking idiot doesn't know. Regardless... GM's figure this out... Team A needs a LBer with cover skills. A LBer with cover skills is available at team's draft position. Team B knows that Team A needs a LB, Team B, who also covets this linebacker, makes the trade. It doesn't have anything to do with leaks, it's putting 2 and 2 together. It's not that complicated. Further, Tampa was also linked to Floyd, and there was no guarantee that Tampa doesn't take him anyway if the Bears don't trade up. The Giants were linked to Myles Jack also... in fact, some of the "insider" info was that the pick would be Jack if he's there. Then they said he's off the board because of medical, then there was information that he was still the target. People said they were linked to Hargreaves, too. Further, to suggest that Reese panicked is a complete work of unbelievable, un-intelligent, lazy fiction. Every team has a draft board. There's no panic, you just go to your board and see who's the next best guy available. Next, to say Reese over-drafted Apple and that he is a "fringe first-round prospect" is to ignore the insider information that has been released since the draft... that the Miami Dolphins were poised to take Apple at 13, and, moreover, that the Los Angeles Rams had Apple as their top-rated corner (after Ramsey), and who said that he would've likely not been available had the Giants traded down. That means, multiple teams had Apple as their top corner, and that means he was not a fringe first-round prospect at all. Further, to suggest that CB wasn't a pressing need is to ignore the stark reality that you must have 3 starting caliber corners in the NFL to compete, and the Giants had 2. Teams are in nickel 60-65% of the time, as has been stated many times. Corner is a premium position. It's not hard to imagine Apple is a better prospect, and in particular, a better fit for NY... he is taller, longer arm-ed than Hargreaves, has better deep speed, and is a better press corner than Hargreaves, who is more of a zone coverage corner. The Giants are a press-man coverage defense primarily. Apple also had higher marks in terms of college production than Hargreaves, allowing a much lower percentage of passes completed against him. I struggled mightily trying to justify Hargreaves as the top corner among the top tier group after Ramsey, because of those physical and timed measurables, as well as scheme fit for NY. Silva is a fucking moron who is talking straight out of his ass.

Correct... 7th round pick.

He can come back to teach, mentor Thompson and the other young safeties. There's already 6 safeties with a chance to be on the week 1 roster: Landon Collins Nat Berhe Bennett Jackson (could be moved back to corner) Mykelle Thompson Darian Thompson Cooper Taylor Only so many roster spots, but it would be nice to have Rolle back and hopefully help the young guys develop.

I thought maybe they would get Spriggs in round 2 or Shon Coleman, Le'Raven Clark in round 3, but after those three guys, there really isn't much of a point. The other guys are projects, and perhaps these three were not as NFL ready in their eyes as some believed, either. Guys will shake loose, I just hope Reese is aggressive in addressing this issue, up to the point of making a strong offer for an OT that can start on the right side and not be a liability.

And not sure where they are getting that 40 time for Ragland, he ran a 4.72 at the combine, Goodson a 4.69.

BTW, same article, here's what they said about Goodson:

Joe, I encourage you to go to draftbreakdown.com and view Ragland's games. Please count for me how many times he drops into a zone coverage. Count how many times he is rushing the passer on third downs versus having coverage responsibility. This is also from Bob McGinn's pre-draft articles where he quotes anonymous, NFL scouts on the prospects by position: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-nfl-draft-prospects-linebackers-b99704579z1-377020691.html He is a downhill LBer, who wasn't asked to run and cover very much. Maybe he will rush the passer for the Bills on 3rd down. He accumulated big stats behind Jarran Reed and A'Shawn Robinson. He's aggressive, he brings force to the tackle. But I can say the same things about Goodson. And Goodson is faster, stronger, with quicker change of direction skills, as evidenced by his superior numbers at the combine. Moreover, look at Goodson and look at Ragland. You can see which one of those guys puts in work at the gym. And not sure if you saw, but I'll say it again... Ragland is also a medical flag, enlarged aorta. He will need yearly ekg's. That doesn't mean he won't have a long, productive career, but it's also not something you dismiss as nothing. If Goodson played for Alabama the last couple of years, he would've been projected as a first rounder. Seriously. But again, I've watched Ragland, he's almost ALWAYS running toward the line of scrimmage. The Bills will find out if he can cover at all, and that's a question. I'm not saying Goodson is going to be Luke Kuechly in pass coverage. But I will say this, Ragland DOESN'T have any visible advantage over Goodson in that area as a prospect. And Goodson has more athleticism than Ragland to be successful at it.