CrazedDogs

I was there for hours, and never saw LT lift a finger. It was the most incredible display of apathy I've ever seen. And then to see what he did when the ball was snapped for real, oh my god. I'll never understand how he did it.

I remember going to Giants training camp with my dad, around 84 or 85, and he pointed out to me how lazy LT was... "would be the greatest player ever if only he had a work ethic", he told me. And even without the work ethic, he's in the discussion. I think he was the most natural, prodigious talent the NFL has ever seen.

they did, and even when he started at linebacker, he was a pass rusher on passing downs. He was never a great pass rusher though. Its those legs of his, the guy is all legs. Not a good build for a pass rusher.

No, I really thought he did his best work at SAM too. Good all around player though, he could hold his own at a few positions in the front seven.

That's about what its going to take....

Sam Mills, um.... and.... uh..... l'll grant you that Sam Mills may have been one up on Harry Carson (whom I am too young to have really seen play), and I know there were a couple other guys down there that were on par with Carl Banks, although their names escape me, but how in the world did they put that group over ANY unit that included LT?

No idea how NFL Network put the late 80s Saints backers ahead of the Giants linebackers from that era... NY haters I guess. LT, Carson, Banks.... eventually guys like Pepper Johnson coming off the goddamn bench.... how is that not the greatest linebacker corp in history, hands down?

He makes some bad reads, but I have absolutely seen him blow up sweeps and read options (especially sweeps). If he weren't making plays when the ball is in his area, he couldn't rack up that number of tackles.

True, but you can point at injuries for those throwaway seasons. And all defensive linemen, even the great ones, have seasons like that.

This is true. His football IQ is low. Thats my only apprehension about the guy.

I don't know Driz, not that the DL is a stat-driven position, but show us sacks, tackles, tackles for loss.... some of these guys have had one season on par, but none of those guys but Watt really stack up against JPP over a span of seasons.

"Infinitely?" Holy exaggeration, Batman!!!

all joking aside, the elite CFL players are usually at least serviceable NFL players, and some of them have even been very good.

Crappy Football League

I think Johnny Manziel's drug of choice is Johnny Manziel.

this makes my weekend

I've got to read that. I learned a lot about quarterback play that season. Warner's play in 2004 was the ugliest 60%+ completion rate I've ever seen. Eli had some real stinkers when he came in, but he also had a few games in which it was obvious he would play at a higher level than Warner, especially in less than optimal circumstances. (Warner did have spectacular touch and accuracy when he had time and a target though.)

I guess we'll never know how it would have turned out, but at 5-4 after playing a very weak schedule, and losing to some very bad teams, I wasn't the least bit optimistic.

Its hardly a "claim"... Kurt Warner's main flaw as a QB was that he tended to hold the ball for a long ass time. Who doesn't know that? Football Jesus played with what, maybe six current or soon-to-be hall of famers on offense in his best seasons? Pppht... right player, right time. He had great touch on the ball, but the way he held the ball back there, which often bordered on that fine line between bravery and stupidity, there were a lot of teams that wouldn't have let him on the field. His style only worked with hall of famers to throw to and to protect his blind side. And given that the 2004 Giants were going nowhere - and man, if you watched them play that season, whatever the record was, you had to know that they were not at that point a playoff caliber team - I had absolutely no problem sitting Warner down and getting the kid some experience. Watching Warner get sacked and throw dump off passes was doing absolutely nothing for me.

he didn't just 'start' hanging on to the ball, that was his MO for his entire career. He was extremely lucky that he often played on teams with good offensive lines. The 2004 Giants were not that team, Warner was sacked 39 times in those 9 games... Eli only 13 times in 7 games.

2004? That was one of the weakest 5-3 teams I've ever seen. I didn't feel like they were pulling the plug at all, they were obviously going nowhere.

I agree. He's first ballot regardless, but this is the conversation that is getting muddied by his post season failures.

Fair points, maybe he just seemed worse because I saw so much more of him.

Thats just you. Marino was first ballot. So was Fouts. And neither of them have Peyton's post season results or regular season production.