both kiper and mcshay's newest mocks have us taking coby fleener

[osi724dasack]

 

 

I'm not sure a WR is our top need. I think OL (someone to be groomed) is our top need now that Mac is gone.

My bad, Ill address your opinion better lol.

 

Do you really have confidence in Jj, Barden or Hixon as the #3?? maybe you do, I have some hope for them. However, if Nicks or Cruz went down we could possibly be fucked at the 2 and 3. A quality WR early in the draft would be a wise move IMO if it's BPA or close to it.

[Allstarjim]

Remember if you have a great receiving threat at TE, it mitigates the need for a 3rd wide receiver in your offense. Sure, you'd love to have stars at every position. But can you even name the 49ers 3rd WR last year? And look at the Patriots... their 3rd wide receiver? I know Aaron Hernandez would be a slot guy alot. Edelman? Ochocinco? Guys that weren't really that important to the offense.

 

You have a great receiving TE like Fleener and replacing Manningham with someone as dynamic as him isn't quite as important.

[osi724dasack]

Jim, how would you feel of Fleener, Miller and Hill were there at 32?

 

You think Sannu can drop to 64?

[Nas]

My bad, Ill address your opinion better lol.

 

Do you really have confidence in Jj, Barden or Hixon as the #3?? maybe you do, I have some hope for them. However, if Nicks or Cruz went down we could possibly be fucked at the 2 and 3. A quality WR early in the draft would be a wise move IMO if it's BPA or close to it.

 

Actually I'm very comfortable with a HEALTHY Hixon or Devin Thomas as our #3. As Jim stated, a stud TE is what we really need ahead of a #3 WR.

[osi724dasack]

Good point Jim, but I really like the idea of having 3 really good WRs with Eli in his prime.

[osi724dasack]

 

 

Actually I'm very comfortable with a HEALTHY Hixon or Devin Thomas as our #3. As Jim stated, a stud TE is what we really need ahead

of a #3 WR.

Wow idk what to say to that.

 

Thomas hasn't shown much of anything at the WR position and Hixons knee is likely fried and is a medical liability.

[Allstarjim]

My bad, Ill address your opinion better lol.

 

Do you really have confidence in Jj, Barden or Hixon as the #3?? maybe you do, I have some hope for them. However, if Nicks or Cruz went down we could possibly be fucked at the 2 and 3. A quality WR early in the draft would be a wise move IMO if it's BPA or close to it.

 

Really? I think RB is the top need with Jacobs gone and Bradshaw's inability to carry a full load and injury history. Ware and Scott are not ready and may never be ready.

 

At OL, what are you concerned with? You have 4 starters set in stone on that OL... Beatty, Boothe, Baas, Snee. The only question is RT...and I think it's fairly obvious that will be Diehl's new position. Plus you still have Brewer and Petrus, with the very real possibility Andrews or Ugoh will be back.

[osi724dasack]

I agree with the point that a vertical TE reduces our need of a good #3 WR. However I believe in today's NFL you need 3 good WRs. I'm not saying Jj, Barden, Hixon, Thomas can't step up and become nice plAyers. They all have some talent. But if there's a stud WR at 32 (most likely will in the WR heavy draft) then I think Reese will take one.

 

But if Fleener is there, he'd be hard to pass up.

[osi724dasack]

O line.

 

Beatty has been decent

Boothe and Petrus i like

I'm Luke warm on Baas

Snee is Snee

Diehl is Diehl.

Brewer has talent.

 

I suppose it's not a need, but we could do better IMO at the tackle position.

[gmenroc]

I too think a HEALTHY Hixon or Thomas would be sufficient as a 3rd WR. The problem is that to me, they equate to outside guys and would almost force Cruz into the slot in 3WR sets. Putting all 3 on one side would be an interesting formation though. But anyhow, in my mind, I think the 3rd WR is the intermediate, possession type receiver. That's just kinda how I envision them. I think that Cruz was that guy at first, and blossomed into the guy his is now. I think Smith was that guy and could step into that role again if called upon.

 

A TE and 3rd WR in a general sense, pull the coverage into the middle of the field, opening up the outside. Classic example was the pre-Shockey Giants. Had good WRs, but they got immensely better once Shockey drew coverage. I'm not a stat guy, but it'd be interesting to see how well our WRs did in games where the TE was involved early. Might be tough to dig that one up, though.

[osi724dasack]

Btw that tall safety from Boise state with the weird name has me interested.

[Nas]

Really? I think RB is the top need with Jacobs gone and Bradshaw's inability to carry a full load and injury history. Ware and Scott are not ready and may never be ready.

 

At OL, what are you concerned with? You have 4 starters set in stone on that OL... Beatty, Boothe, Baas, Snee. The only question is RT...and I think it's fairly obvious that will be Diehl's new position. Plus you still have Brewer and Petrus, with the very real possibility Andrews or Ugoh will be back.

 

Even though there are rumors BJ maybe coming back as the difference in talks was a mere $500K, I still think we need to upgrade that position as the mileage on both AB and BJ is adding up. Although I wonder what we really have in Scott.

[osi724dasack]

Gmenroc

 

Cruz is our slot guy in 3 WR sets.

 

I think Reese wants an outside guy. Hixon, Thomas and Barden are outside guys while JJ is a slot guy.

 

I'm not saying we must draft a WR. I'm just saying if a guy like Steven Hill is there, we better take him.

[Mr. P]

Devin Thomas isn't even on the roster at this point.

[Nas]

I too think a HEALTHY Hixon or Thomas would be sufficient as a 3rd WR. The problem is that to me, they equate to outside guys and would almost force Cruz into the slot in 3WR sets. Putting all 3 on one side would be an interesting formation though. But anyhow, in my mind, I think the 3rd WR is the intermediate, possession type receiver. That's just kinda how I envision them. I think that Cruz was that guy at first, and blossomed into the guy his is now. I think Smith was that guy and could step into that role again if called upon.

 

A TE and 3rd WR in a general sense, pull the coverage into the middle of the field, opening up the outside. Classic example was the pre-Shockey Giants. Had good WRs, but they got immensely better once Shockey drew coverage. I'm not a stat guy, but it'd be interesting to see how well our WRs did in games where the TE was involved early. Might be tough to dig that one up, though.

 

Speaking of Smith, I'd welcome him back.. but if we couldn't afford Manningham, I don't see how we can afford Smith.

[osi724dasack]

 

 

Even though there are rumors BJ maybe coming back as the difference in talks was a mere $500K, I still think we need to upgrade that

position as the mileage on both AB and BJ is

adding up. Although I wonder what we really

have in Scott.

Yea I heard that rumor also. It'd be nice to have Jacobs back.

 

As for Scott, I really like him, but he must hold onto the football and pass protect much better. I think he isn't guaranteed a roster spot.

 

I really like his speed and size though. Dude is blazing fast.

[osi724dasack]

 

 

Speaking of Smith, I'd welcome him back.. but if we couldn't afford Manningham, I don't see how we can afford Smith.

Smith should be much cheaper then Mario.

[Nas]

Smith should be much cheaper then Mario.

 

How so?

 

And Scott will be on the roster... his potential is amazing. How many times did he fumble? Did we have the same issue with AB and Tiki before him? that's a very correctable problem.

[gmenroc]

At this point, we NEED a RB and we NEED a TE. Though I don't totally agree with BPA approach (I'm more of a hybrid...draft for needs in early rounds 1-3, then BPA in later rounds), I think the Giants front office do. That said, if you can fill a need AND draft BPA, then you're doing well on draft day.

 

If we draft Fleener on draft day at 32, he could easily be the BPA at that spot AND fill a need for us. I think this is proven by the fact that despite the Marcellus Bennet signing, most mocks are still pegging us with Fleener.

 

Add to that, the fact that the value of RBs continue to fall. Not that you don't need them, but considering the league continues to be more pass-happy AND the fact that RBs don't last as long as other positions due to the abuse they take...the position has just lost value. For that reason, I don't see a #1 being used for RB. I think we could easily snag a RB with our #2.

 

As for the WR, I think we could answer the loss of Manningham with either a guy we already have, just as we did with Cruz OR we could get a vet and damn near minimum to step in. Either way, I don't see a draft pick spent here unless it's much later rounds.

 

As for being okay with the O line as is, I think we need to find an OT at some point. Diehl has been around for quite some time and he's been more valueable than many give him credit for. His flexibility has gotten us out of more than one sticky situation. I think he'll be fine at RT in a competition with Brewer. Bottom line is that we have starters across the board, but depth on the interior is much, much deeper than depth on the outside.

[Allstarjim]

If Hixon's knee was fried they wouldn't have resigned him. Obviously he passed a physical. Thomas has played well in very limited reps... but he is a free agent anyway.

 

I think Jernigan is the likely replacement for Manningham. I think the Giants may go WR, but not in the first round. And I expect Reese to make a low-cost free agent acquisition at WR before training camp.

 

But to answer your question, Osi, unless someone like Michael Floyd from Notre Dame falls to 32, and maybe even if he does, if Fleener is there, I expect him to be the pick.

 

Regarding Hill... I think there is enormous upside. He played for a run-heavy offense, and I mean like Navy Midshipmen run heavy. He does have amazing size and speed, but the numbers just aren't there. Basically, he was the guy they would beat teams deep with... 29 yards per catch... but only 28 catches. It's just that so many catches he was just wide open because his team threw the ball so rarely. He could be a steal... could end up being a tremendous player. But it's a risk not worth taking in the 1st round. I do like him, but if it came down to him or Sanu or Alshon Jeffery later, I'd rather take a WR later.

[gmenroc]

Gmenroc

 

Cruz is our slot guy in 3 WR sets.

 

I think Reese wants an outside guy. Hixon, Thomas and Barden are outside guys while JJ is a slot guy.

 

I'm not saying we must draft a WR. I'm just saying if a guy like Steven Hill is there, we better take him.

 

This is where I differ from the Giants and from many on SW. I would draft need in the first few rounds and BPA in later rounds. I simply don't see a 3rd WR as much of a need as a starting TE.

[Mr. P]

This is where I differ from the Giants and from many on SW. I would draft need in the first few rounds and BPA in later rounds. I simply don't see a 3rd WR as much of a need as a starting TE.

 

I think it's gotta be a combination of need and BPA. If your need is linebacker but you don't feel any on the board are worth the pick you have it'd be dumb to pick one there.

[Allstarjim]

At this point, we NEED a RB and we NEED a TE. Though I don't totally agree with BPA approach (I'm more of a hybrid...draft for needs in early rounds 1-3, then BPA in later rounds), I think the Giants front office do. That said, if you can fill a need AND draft BPA, then you're doing well on draft day.

 

If we draft Fleener on draft day at 32, he could easily be the BPA at that spot AND fill a need for us. I think this is proven by the fact that despite the Marcellus Bennet signing, most mocks are still pegging us with Fleener.

 

Add to that, the fact that the value of RBs continue to fall. Not that you don't need them, but considering the league continues to be more pass-happy AND the fact that RBs don't last as long as other positions due to the abuse they take...the position has just lost value. For that reason, I don't see a #1 being used for RB. I think we could easily snag a RB with our #2.

 

As for the WR, I think we could answer the loss of Manningham with either a guy we already have, just as we did with Cruz OR we could get a vet and damn near minimum to step in. Either way, I don't see a draft pick spent here unless it's much later rounds.

 

As for being okay with the O line as is, I think we need to find an OT at some point. Diehl has been around for quite some time and he's been more valueable than many give him credit for. His flexibility has gotten us out of more than one sticky situation. I think he'll be fine at RT in a competition with Brewer. Bottom line is that we have starters across the board, but depth on the interior is much, much deeper than depth on the outside.

 

Totally agreed. I think you try to draft your starters and address depth with free agency on the OL in particular. Sure, you're going to have project guys (Petrus is a perfect example), but Reese has always had that back-up veteran on the OL. We have a solid starting 5 OL. I think RT is Brewer's job to lose going into the 2013 season and beyond. I think Diehl will hold it down for him to develop 1 more year. And hey, if a good tackle falls, it could definitely happen. Jonathan Martin or Mike Adams? Adams could actually be there at 32, and would probably be good enough to start at RT right away. But I just don't see that.

[Allstarjim]

I think it's gotta be a combination of need and BPA. If your need is linebacker but you don't feel any on the board are worth the pick you have it'd be dumb to pick one there.

 

Yeah, me too, Pdub. I think you always go BPA, but if there are two guys there, and they are very close in terms of evaluation, and one fills a need and the other doesn't, you go for the need. In other words, filling a need is the tie breaker.

 

Last year, nobody saw Prince falling down to us, and even though CB wasn't a perceived need (remember at the time we had Webby, T2, AND Ross all healthy), they took Prince... and it turned out over the course of preseason that CB actually became a need for us. So because you never know what is going to happen with injuries, you have to go with BPA, but ideally you want that BPA to ALSO fill a need, and I think Fleener does that at #32.

[gmenroc]

Coby Fleener, TE in the 1st

Bobbie Massie, OT in the 2nd

Bernard Pierce, RB in the 3rd

Jarius Wright, WR in the 4th

 

I'd be beyond pleased with this.