boohyah Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 David Carr is not the first #1 picked QB to come to a bad team with a poor O line and thank you for your stellar newsflash about ELI, but he does not hold the ball nearly as long as Carr did, Carr was Roethlisbergeresque in his holding of the ball. We can make exuses all we want for why David Carr sucked in Houston(he sucked in his few starts in Carolina too but we wont even get into it)but the fact remains he sucked and other than on an injury basis I would not want him as my starting QB. This is not to say that somewhere there is not a fit for him as a QB, but I will take ELI and any thoughts about letting ELI go and replacing him with Carr are downright comical. Why do you get so offended?. I mean, I'm defending the guy because he didn't get the chance really to do anything but suck. Now you could have put him behind our o-line all those years and he could have been terrible also. I'm not saying otherwise, what I'm saying is he never really got a fair chance. You must really be mad to go and create a new word. We need to call Oxford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 You don't think Carr would take that deal? well yeah he'd be the starter under osi's scenario. plus, a backup like carr's current mindset is to prove himself in limited action and hopefully get a shot somewhere else as a starter. so as a starter he'd want mor emoney and as a young backup he'd want less years--IMO at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Why do you get so offended?. I mean, I'm defending the guy because he didn't get the chance really to do anything but suck. Now you could have put him behind our o-line all those years and he could have been terrible also. I'm not saying otherwise, what I'm saying is he never really got a fair chance. You must really be mad to go and create a new word. We need to call Oxford. No what I am saying is that this idea that the Giants could go with Carr is absolutely comical. Kubiak could not wait to get rid of him as he was tired of his indecisiveness when it came to getting rid of the ball and his decison making. All these exuses that are made for him could be used for the likes of Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, David Kilngler, Andre Ware, Alex Smith, etc etc. Bottom line was he was just not very good and thats that and I sure as hell would not want him being anything other than a backup to ELI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osi724dasack Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 Im not saying make Carr the starter and dump Eli. im saying do it if Eli wats $120 million. Carr has mucho mucho talent and CAN be a good QB. he has more talent than Eli. but i would love to have Eli back as long as its not $120 million. i wouldnt mind him getting $80 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 if you think carr has more talent than eli then why would you take eli for 80 mil over carr for much much less as the starter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Im not saying make Carr the starter and dump Eli. im saying do it if Eli wats $120 million. Carr has mucho mucho talent and CAN be a good QB. he has more talent than Eli. but i would love to have Eli back as long as its not $120 million. i wouldnt mind him getting $80 million Carr doesn't have more talent than Eli Osi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 No what I am saying is that this idea that the Giants could go with Carr is absolutely comical. Kubiak could not wait to get rid of him as he was tired of his indecisiveness when it came to getting rid of the ball and his decison making. All these exuses that are made for him could be used for the likes of Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, David Kilngler, Andre Ware, Alex Smith, etc etc. Bottom line was he was just not very good and thats that and I sure as hell would not want him being anything other than a backup to ELI. How is it excuses if it actually is the case. No offense x, but there a lot of better football people out there that would agree that he got a raw deal down there. In his last year, they did want him gone, you're right, because he was so fucked up down there, and they were flat gunning for Matt Schaub. And putting him in the same context as those other guys is just wrong as he was much better than those guys who simply didn't have the mentality to play pro ball leaving college, that's why they failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 How is it excuses if it actually is the case. No offense x, but there a lot of better football people out there that would agree that he got a raw deal down there. In his last year, they did want him gone, you're right, because he was so fucked up down there, and they were flat gunning for Matt Schaub. And putting him in the same context as those other guys is just wrong as he was much better than those guys who simply didn't have the mentality to play pro ball leaving college, that's why they failed. I am sure every single one of them has an exuse as to why they failed just like Carr. He also went to Carolina and he was awful. I remember listening to Sirius last year the day the Giants signed him. Adam Schein or one of the hosts had some writer from Carolina on and they were asking why the Panthers would not bring him back and his answer was pretty simple, no one thought he was any good. Not sure what the case was there, but that was the reason he claimed they let him go. I still do not know what David Carr is nor do I really care to find out because that means ELI is not playing, simple as that. He can continue to be the backup because IMO you need a backup who at the least has the experience of playing in the league, especially when you have a veteran starter. My guess is if all these "better football people out there" thought anything more of Carr then say a simple fan like I does he would have garnered more than a 1 year deal to come back up a QB who never misses a snap. What I will say is this, he must have impressed the Giants enough to be where he is now, because when he was signed it was not a given that he was even going to make the roster. I hope he had found his niche as a backup then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lughead Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 how did this turn into a Pro Eli anti Carr thread All this is is that people feel this is to big of a contract for right now, 10 years 12 mill .and he can't throw the ball in the wind in his own stadium ,,,,,,,I dont see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 how did this turn into a Pro Eli anti Carr thread All this is is that people feel this is to big of a contract for right now, 10 years 12 mill .and he can't throw the ball in the wind in his own stadium ,,,,,,,I dont see it I believe someone said Carr has more talent then ELI I believe Midas hit the nail on the head for the contract, focus on the guaranteed money none of the rest matters. If ELI plays out the entire contract then it will have been worth every penny because that would have meant success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 it's tough to keep each qb in a salary that correlates with their rank among their peers though. the market doesn't work like that, whoever is a or soon to be free agent out of the franchise qbs will be the highest paid. if eli gets this contract i guarentee you that a philip rivers or someone else who arguably is as good or worse than eli will make more than him next year because it's just his turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osi724dasack Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 if you think carr has more talent than eli then why would you take eli for 80 mil over carr for much much less as the starter? because Eli has proven he can win games. which isnt exactly straight up talent. I would rather Eli start than Carr. just not for $120 million Carr doesn't have more talent than Eli Osi. idk ur probly right. but he definately has a stronger arm. how did this turn into a Pro Eli anti Carr thread All this is is that people feel this is to big of a contract for right now, 10 years 12 mill .and he can't throw the ball in the wind in his own stadium ,,,,,,,I dont see it exactly. how does he deserve such a contract?? you dont see Big Ben or Rivers getting that money. not even Peyton or Brady got that much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 because Eli has proven he can win games. which isnt exactly straight up talent. I would rather Eli start than Carr. just not for $120 million idk ur probly right. but he definately has a stronger arm. exactly. how does he deserve such a contract?? you dont see Big Ben or Rivers getting that money. not even Peyton or Brady got that much money. if any of those guys were up for a free agent after next season or a year away from FA they would get more money than eli unless they pull a tom brady which is extremely rare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Wlis problem is not arm strength and I do not know if Carr has a stronger arm. What Simms said the other day is that ELI needs to learn how to throw in the wind, its not arm strength its technique and how you throw the ball. Eli throws a very good deep ball. From what Simms said, its about trajectory and learning how it has to be thrown in that wind. Simms also said there were windy days where he and Parcells and Earhardt would be happy with 15-20 short to intermediate attempts with little downfield plays. I would imagine that idea never even crosses Gilbrides(and Coughlins for that matter)thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 because Eli has proven he can win games. which isnt exactly straight up talent. I would rather Eli start than Carr. just not for $120 million idk ur probly right. but he definately has a stronger arm. exactly. how does he deserve such a contract?? you dont see Big Ben or Rivers getting that money. not even Peyton or Brady got that much money. Umm Ben did get 100 mil and so did Payton...Brady took a hometown discount in the middle of SB runs to preserve NE cap space. Rivers will get a similar deal. You guys need to stop focusing on the amount and length of the deal but what the guaranteed portion is. Thats all that really matters in an NFL contract and if a player sees that total amount it normally means the amount was worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lughead Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Wlis problem is not arm strength and I do not know if Carr has a stronger arm. What Simms said the other day is that ELI needs to learn how to throw in the wind, its not arm strength its technique and how you throw the ball. Eli throws a very good deep ball. From what Simms said, its about trajectory and learning how it has to be thrown in that wind. Simms also said there were windy days where he and Parcells and Earhardt would be happy with 15-20 short to intermediate attempts with little downfield plays. I would imagine that idea never even crosses Gilbrides(and Coughlins for that matter)thought process. Simms for OC ..... no I do not think so didn't he get rubbed the wrong way by the Giants on the way out the door?.... then again those where my "dad's" giants. I was just a young buck back then. Could you imagine Simms showing Eli how to throw in the wind and how to game plan for windy conditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lughead Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Umm Ben did get 100 mil and so did Payton...Brady took a hometown discount in the middle of SB runs to preserve NE cap space. Rivers will get a similar deal. You guys need to stop focusing on the amount and length of the deal but what the guaranteed portion is. Thats all that really matters in an NFL contract and if a player sees that total amount it normally means the amount was worthwhile. what's the Guaranteed portion to incentive portion of this contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Simms for OC ..... no I do not think so didn't he get rubbed the wrong way by the Giants on the way out the door?.... then again those where my "dad's" giants. I was just a young buck back then. Could you imagine Simms showing Eli how to throw in the wind and how to game plan for windy conditions? Well I would hope with time ELI learns the winds of the Meadowlands, lets not forget this was ELI's 5th season and in Simms 5th season he had not yet completed a full year nor had he even been named the teams starter(83) so maybe it will take time. who knows maybe the new stadium will be different as well, new dimensions, less wind tunnels, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 what's the Guaranteed portion to incentive portion of this contract? It has not yet been reported, this was a rumored deal that the rags ran with last week after his bad game to drum up paper sales. No one has offically claimed this to be completed or given what the real parameters are. My guess is close to Roethlisbergers deal, maybe more years to spread out the bonus and save eventual cap space? WHo knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Wlis problem is not arm strength and I do not know if Carr has a stronger arm. What Simms said the other day is that ELI needs to learn how to throw in the wind, its not arm strength its technique and how you throw the ball. Eli throws a very good deep ball. From what Simms said, its about trajectory and learning how it has to be thrown in that wind. Simms also said there were windy days where he and Parcells and Earhardt would be happy with 15-20 short to intermediate attempts with little downfield plays. I would imagine that idea never even crosses Gilbrides(and Coughlins for that matter)thought process. I lit candles all season at my Earhardt Buddha creche....its as if I wish there was something akin to a drive limiter...similar to a speed limiter in cars where the QB's arm would shut down if a pass was attempted beyond 20-25 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Don't have to give Eli anything but the price tends to go up over time. The idea of replacing Eli is absurd, ask the 20 other teams in the league who don't have a QB worth half the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Wlis problem is not arm strength and I do not know if Carr has a stronger arm. What Simms said the other day is that ELI needs to learn how to throw in the wind, its not arm strength its technique and how you throw the ball. Eli throws a very good deep ball. From what Simms said, its about trajectory and learning how it has to be thrown in that wind. Simms also said there were windy days where he and Parcells and Earhardt would be happy with 15-20 short to intermediate attempts with little downfield plays. I would imagine that idea never even crosses Gilbrides(and Coughlins for that matter)thought process. Perfectly said. Eli can put zip on the ball when he needs to. The issue, like Simms said, is a matter of trajectory. And that takes not only QB mechanics, but proper play-calling as well. Eli and Gilbride need to break out that NFC Championship between the Giants and the Redskins. Parcells paid just as much attention to the wind as he did to the Redskins. Virtually all of Simms production took place with the wind at his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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