Bonds

[Allstarjim]

With every HR Bonds hits these days, it seems to lead SportsCenter. As 755 grows closer, fans are either growing more sick everyday, or becoming more excited everyday. Other than SF fans, your skin color likely is a determinant of which category you are in. ESPN recently cited a poll about the HR chase with regards to race. In the ESPN/ABC poll, Blacks are relatively split on their belief that Bonds knowingly used steroids. 37% say they believe he did, whereas 36% say he did not, with 26% having no opinion. The same question put to whites, a whopping 76% believe he did, while 12% say he did not. Asked if they were rooting for Bonds to break the record, however, 74% of blacks surveyed are rooting for him, while only 18% are not. For whites, only 28% are rooting for him, while 60% are hoping he falls short.

 

I have a friend (who is Black) and I asked him about Bonds some time ago. Like the majority of blacks, although he believes that Bonds probably cheated, he is rooting for him to break the all-time HR record. He feels, like many blacks, that because Mark McGwire was completely embraced during his record breaking HR season when he passed Maris, that white America is now hypocritical of their criticism of Bonds now. They note while McGwire was celebrated as a national hero, Bonds has been turned into a pariah. Thus, they don't care what Bonds did, they want him to break the record.

 

This is what doesn't make sense to me. Nevermind there was no known evidence at the time that McGwire was juicing during his record breaking season. Nevermind that McGwire never underwent the improbable, physical transformation in a rapid amount of time that Bonds did. Nevermind that McGwire has since fallen from grace in the American public since his Congressional testimony. Nevermind that it was Bonds who has the mountain of evidence against him, that he has not only injected, used "The Cream" as well as human growth hormone (HGH - which they still cannot test for in mlb). The fact is, Bonds already broke that tainted single-season HR record. He is now about to surpass Hank Aaron. Who was not a juicer, but endured the worst society could throw at him during his run at the Babe's all time HR mark, enduring death threats and countless hate mail. It's Aaron's record that Bonds will break with his juiced up HR swings. Aaron, a national hero that we all embrace, holding a record that is now pure, but waiting for Bonds to smudge it in the coming weeks. And last I checked... Aaron is black.

 

He is the black hero who's accomplishment black America should cherish and wish to protect, but somehow, that is just not happening. A shame that race would play such a factor AGAIN in the all-time HR race, this time, and ironically, with the majority of black America in the wrong.

[Herc]

blacks thought OJ was innocent too

[Herc]

also, i believe bonds juiced, but i still want him to break the record cuz i believe the sports media is being hypocritical--not 'white' america. i dont identify people by their skin color

[fringe]

He is now about to surpass Hank Aaron. Who was not a juicer

debateable.

[Allstarjim]

debateable.

 

 

You've got to be kidding. He's Henry Aaron. Never went on a muscled-up metamorphosis, either, plus, if that stuff was really going on back then, we would have heard about it by now, because somebody would've, either a) gotten sick from it and confessed (a la Lyle Alzado), or b) someone else would've blown the whistle. You're talking about Hank Aaron, who started his career in 1954, for crying out loud. He played for 22 years, and I'll tell you, back then, steroids were just not used in athletics, outside of MAYBE bodybuilding, because they were just too dangerous. Steroids began to be used by pro athletes to enhance performance in the late 70's at the earliest, but certainly in the 80's. That was a different time and culture and I can assure you Hank Aaron didn't do steroids. They just didn't have the stuff they have today, and it was too dangerous. Not up for debate, and you're kidding yourself if you think it is.

[Allstarjim]

also, i believe bonds juiced, but i still want him to break the record cuz i believe the sports media is being hypocritical--not 'white' america. i dont identify people by their skin color

 

 

You want Bonds to tarnish Hank's HR record because of the sports media? This is a race-related issue, as evidenced by the ESPN/ABC poll. The media, nor white America, would've embraced McGwire had we known then what we know now. There is nothing to be hypocritical about. We've (white america and the media) rejected McGwire (now), with much, much less evidence than what Bonds has mounted against himself. We've rejected Rafael Palmeiro for one bad test. And the only guy that has really escaped any real criticism from the sports media is Sammy Sosa, who may have juiced, too, given his rapid development. Remember, Sammy is not opposed to "bending" the rules, if you remember the corked bat episode. I fail to see any hypocrisy of the sports media in this case, nor any reason to root for a cheater. Besides the fact, Bonds already testified that he did indeed use "The Cream" just didn't know what he was putting in his body at the time. If you believe that, I've got some ocean-front property in Arizona to sell you.

[fringe]

You've got to be kidding. He's Henry Aaron. Never went on a muscled-up metamorphosis, either, plus, if that stuff was really going on back then, we would have heard about it by now, because somebody would've, either a) gotten sick from it and confessed (a la Lyle Alzado), or b) someone else would've blown the whistle. You're talking about Hank Aaron, who started his career in 1954, for crying out loud. He played for 22 years, and I'll tell you, back then, steroids were just not used in athletics, outside of MAYBE bodybuilding, because they were just too dangerous. Steroids began to be used by pro athletes to enhance performance in the late 70's at the earliest, but certainly in the 80's. That was a different time and culture and I can assure you Hank Aaron didn't do steroids. They just didn't have the stuff they have today, and it was too dangerous. Not up for debate, and you're kidding yourself if you think it is.

[fringe]

All Star Jim- If you can climb down off your high horse and listen, here's why I say it's debateable:

 

STEROIDS GROUND ZERO: 1973 ATLANTA BRAVES

(Or what you will NOT read in Game of Shadows)

 

One of the more distressing fabrications which has emerged from the BALCO case has been the erroneous contention that the so-called 'Steroids Era' began in 1991 with Jose Conseco as its architect.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

The San Francisco Chronicle, in a May 3rd 2005 article quoted former Major League pitcher Tom House of the Atlanta Braves as saying that steroids were rampant in the game in the late '60s and throughout the '70s.

 

House, perhaps best known for catching Hank Aaron's 715th home run ball in 1974 in the Atlanta Braves bullpen, said he and several teammates used amphetamines, human growth hormone and 'whatever steroid' they could find in order to keep up with the competition.

 

"I pretty much popped everything cold turkey', House said. "We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding."

 

House, 58, estimated that six or seven pitchers per team were at least experimenting with steroids or human growth hormone. He said players talked about losing to opponents using more effective drugs,

 

"We didn't get beat, we got out-milligrammed", he said. "And when you found out what they were taking, you started taking them".

 

According to Rep. Henry A. Waxman in his March 17,2005 opening statement before the House Government Reform Committee:

 

"Congress first investigated drugs and professional sports, including steroids over 30 years ago. I think perhaps the only two people in the room who will remember this are me and Commissioner Selig, because I believe he became owner in 1970".

 

In 1973, the year I first ran for Congress, the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce concluded a year-long investigation that found--and I quote--"drug use exists...in all sports and levels of competition...In some instances, the danger of improper drug use--primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids--can only be described as alarming".

 

Bowie Kuhn, and the powers that be at the time, quietly squashed the entire tawdry episode and with good reason: it would cast suspicions on an African-American slugger who was challenging one of baseball's most cherished records: The career record for home runs.

 

Compare Hank Aaron's stats at the beginning of his career and then notice how his HR% began to increase beginning when Hammerin' Hank was 37 years old.

 

HR% is defined as being the number of HRs per 100 ABs.

 

Age HRs HR%

33 44 7.3

34 39 6.5

35 29 4.8

 

Nothing unusual about these statistics; it is a typical profile of a slugger in decline as he ages. But then Hank began to undergo an 'enhancement.'

 

Age HRs HR%

36 44 8.0

37 38 7.4

 

What explains this spike at a latter age? Expansion? Perhaps. But then what happens?

 

Age HRs HR%

38 47 9.5

39 34 7.6

 

Hank...What's going on buddy? Aaron's HR% were TOPS in the NL in both 1971 and 1972. Hmm.

 

Age HRs HR%

40 40 10.2

 

Which leads us to 1973 when at age 40 in just 392 at bats, juiced 40 HR's for a HR% of 10.2. Once again TOPS in NL for the THIRD STRAIGHT YEAR and the HIGHEST HR% in the ENTIRE 23 year career of Hank Aaron.

 

Hank Aaron at 40 was not the only Atlanta Brave to hit 40 Hrs that season. Teammates Darrell Evans and Davey Johnson blasted 41 and 43 HRs respectively.

 

Darrell Evans

 

Year HRs HR%

1971 12 4.6

1972 19 4.5

 

1973 41 6.9

 

1974 25 4.4

1975 22 2.8

 

Notice a statistical anomaly? Let's see what Davey Johnson did.

 

Davey Johnson

 

Year HRs HR%

1971 18 3.5

1972 5 1.3

 

1973 43 7.7

 

1974 15 3.3

1975 Played 1 game

1976 Did not play MLB

 

Notice a statistical anomaly? It would be one thing for Hank Aaron to undergo an 'enhancement', but what are the odds that not one but TWO teammates would both have career years in HR's and HR% in the SAME YEAR as when a Congressional Committee issued its final report saying that anabolic steroids were rampant in the game? Why did Darrell Evans and Davey Johnson both experience career spikes in HR's only to return to earth the following year? And how did Hank finish up?

 

Age HRs HR%

41 20 5.9

42 12 2.6

43 10 3.7

 

So what happened? Enquiring minds want to know.

 

The 1996 Baltimore Orioles set at the time the team HR record for one season. Brady Anderson's 50 HR season was viewed suspiciously.

 

The manager of the 1996 Baltimore Orioles? Davey Johnson.

 

The only question remains: What did Bud Selig know and when did he know it?

 

Fay Vincent circulated a draft steroids policy in 1991. Selig knew that if the scab of steroids was picked off, the puss of the 1973 Atlanta Braves would be oozing all over the game. The scandal of Hank Aaron's HR record being tainted by steroids use would have been a PR disaster at the time and. personally, extremely painful to Bud Selig who, after all, is a long-time friend of Hank Aaron.

 

Hence the boardroom coup which ousted Fay Vincent and made Bud Selig 'Acting Commissioner', while still maintaining his position as the owner of the Milwaukee Brewers, a blatant conflict of interest.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

blacks thought OJ was innocent too

No I thought he was guilty as anyone could be....however he had a great legal team that created for them reasonable doubt. "If the glove don't fit you must acquit". And if the prosecution ever actually knew how to prosecute a case like that....he would be in the can right now. They allowed an open and shut case to be turned into a racial referendum and they did not know how to rebuild a case after it began to fall apart on them. Watching them go up against the legal Dream Team was like watching the first group of NBA All-Stars go through the other teams during the Olympics. You watched more to see how much the Americans would win by than through any worry or suspense that they would lose.

 

And I absolutely despise Barry Bonds. Hank is my boy and he was never really embraced by MLB. The commissioner of the time sent his understudy to the game when he broke the record and came up with some lame excuse of prior engagement. This cat endured death threats from lunatics because he could hit a little ball out of a stadium. Jesus. You see that is the problem with polls....not so much with the questions that are asked....but more so with the questions not asked. Whenever I get a pollster whether on the telephone or live...I refuse to give yes or no answers to questions that require nuance. They either end the poll prematurely or I suspect put in the answer they think best fits.

[Herc]

You want Bonds to tarnish Hank's HR record because of the sports media? This is a race-related issue, as evidenced by the ESPN/ABC poll. The media, nor white America, would've embraced McGwire had we known then what we know now. There is nothing to be hypocritical about. We've (white america and the media) rejected McGwire (now), with much, much less evidence than what Bonds has mounted against himself. We've rejected Rafael Palmeiro for one bad test. And the only guy that has really escaped any real criticism from the sports media is Sammy Sosa, who may have juiced, too, given his rapid development. Remember, Sammy is not opposed to "bending" the rules, if you remember the corked bat episode. I fail to see any hypocrisy of the sports media in this case, nor any reason to root for a cheater. Besides the fact, Bonds already testified that he did indeed use "The Cream" just didn't know what he was putting in his body at the time. If you believe that, I've got some ocean-front property in Arizona to sell you.

 

these guys dont care about the game, jim. they care about their careers and their bank accounts. everyone knew what was going on, ESPECIALLY the media. they were in the clubhouses, they spoke to players off the record, and people did say stuff from time to time but no one was interested. i was 16 freaking years old when i saw ken caminiti swinging, missing, and falling down in the 98 world series cuz of all the various muscle pulls and strains he had--and even then i knew why. the same guys who made names for themselves (and that's ALL these guys care about) covering the 98 homerun chase, writing books about it, etc all turned a blind eye back then and now are cashing in on uncovering the truth. you think those two san fran writers care about the integrity of the game? yeah they care so much that they wouldn't reveal their sources and help a federal case regarding steroid use in the game. if they really cared they would've reported EVERYTHING in their 50 cent newspaper AS they were learning it and cooperated with federal authorities.

 

i dont care about aaron's stupid homerun record, i care about what my favorite team does in the year 2007.

[Herc]

No I thought he was guilty as anyone could be....however he had a great legal team that created for them reasonable doubt. "If the glove don't fit you must acquit". And if the prosecution ever actually knew how to prosecute a case like that....he would be in the can right now. They allowed an open and shut case to be turned into a racial referendum and they did not know how to rebuild a case after it began to fall apart on them. Watching them go up against the legal Dream Team was like watching the first group of NBA All-Stars go through the other teams during the Olympics. You watched more to see how much the Americans would win by than through any worry or suspense that they would lose.

 

And I absolutely despise Barry Bonds. Hank is my boy and he was never really embraced by MLB. The commissioner of the time sent his understudy to the game when he broke the record and came up with some lame excuse of prior engagement. This cat endured death threats from lunatics because he could hit a little ball out of a stadium. Jesus. You see that is the problem with polls....not so much with the questions that are asked....but more so with the questions not asked. Whenever I get a pollster whether on the telephone or live...I refuse to give yes or no answers to questions that require nuance. They either end the poll prematurely or I suspect put in the answer they think best fits.

 

not ALL blacks obviously

[Virginia Giant]

First, I don't care about steroids any longer, I don't think they should be a part of the game, but it's abvious they are and have been for a while. To me it's not a big deal anymore, so people were taking shit to build muscle, big deal, who cares? Whats the point in getting all pised over the fact people were doing shit to be better ballplayers? I just don't give a damn anymore.

 

 

 

As for Bonds breaking the HR mark, I'm more or less indifferent, not because he's black or did roids, but because he's always done what he could to be a dick. Not saying he should have been Mr. Lovable, but he didn't have to be so standoffish his whole career eithe. I will say it'll be somewhat exciting to see him break it, and part of me is rooting for him, but if he went for an 0fer the rest of the way I wuldn't be greatly dissappointed either.

 

 

I don't believe in this sanctity of thesport or records BS either, more likely than not the record setters of yesteryear were doing things that weren't on the up and up back then eitherto give them an edge.

[Chuck Wagon]

All Star Jim- If you can climb down off your high horse and listen, here's why I say it's debateable:

 

STEROIDS GROUND ZERO: 1973 ATLANTA BRAVES

(Or what you will NOT read in Game of Shadows)

 

One of the more distressing fabrications which has emerged from the BALCO case has been the erroneous contention that the so-called 'Steroids Era' began in 1991 with Jose Conseco as its architect.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

The San Francisco Chronicle, in a May 3rd 2005 article quoted former Major League pitcher Tom House of the Atlanta Braves as saying that steroids were rampant in the game in the late '60s and throughout the '70s.

 

House, perhaps best known for catching Hank Aaron's 715th home run ball in 1974 in the Atlanta Braves bullpen, said he and several teammates used amphetamines, human growth hormone and 'whatever steroid' they could find in order to keep up with the competition.

 

"I pretty much popped everything cold turkey', House said. "We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding."

 

House, 58, estimated that six or seven pitchers per team were at least experimenting with steroids or human growth hormone. He said players talked about losing to opponents using more effective drugs,

 

"We didn't get beat, we got out-milligrammed", he said. "And when you found out what they were taking, you started taking them".

 

According to Rep. Henry A. Waxman in his March 17,2005 opening statement before the House Government Reform Committee:

 

"Congress first investigated drugs and professional sports, including steroids over 30 years ago. I think perhaps the only two people in the room who will remember this are me and Commissioner Selig, because I believe he became owner in 1970".

 

In 1973, the year I first ran for Congress, the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce concluded a year-long investigation that found--and I quote--"drug use exists...in all sports and levels of competition...In some instances, the danger of improper drug use--primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids--can only be described as alarming".

 

Bowie Kuhn, and the powers that be at the time, quietly squashed the entire tawdry episode and with good reason: it would cast suspicions on an African-American slugger who was challenging one of baseball's most cherished records: The career record for home runs.

 

Compare Hank Aaron's stats at the beginning of his career and then notice how his HR% began to increase beginning when Hammerin' Hank was 37 years old.

 

HR% is defined as being the number of HRs per 100 ABs.

 

Age HRs HR%

33 44 7.3

34 39 6.5

35 29 4.8

 

Nothing unusual about these statistics; it is a typical profile of a slugger in decline as he ages. But then Hank began to undergo an 'enhancement.'

 

Age HRs HR%

36 44 8.0

37 38 7.4

 

What explains this spike at a latter age? Expansion? Perhaps. But then what happens?

 

Age HRs HR%

38 47 9.5

39 34 7.6

 

Hank...What's going on buddy? Aaron's HR% were TOPS in the NL in both 1971 and 1972. Hmm.

 

Age HRs HR%

40 40 10.2

 

Which leads us to 1973 when at age 40 in just 392 at bats, juiced 40 HR's for a HR% of 10.2. Once again TOPS in NL for the THIRD STRAIGHT YEAR and the HIGHEST HR% in the ENTIRE 23 year career of Hank Aaron.

 

Hank Aaron at 40 was not the only Atlanta Brave to hit 40 Hrs that season. Teammates Darrell Evans and Davey Johnson blasted 41 and 43 HRs respectively.

 

Darrell Evans

 

Year HRs HR%

1971 12 4.6

1972 19 4.5

 

1973 41 6.9

 

1974 25 4.4

1975 22 2.8

 

Notice a statistical anomaly? Let's see what Davey Johnson did.

 

Davey Johnson

 

Year HRs HR%

1971 18 3.5

1972 5 1.3

 

1973 43 7.7

 

1974 15 3.3

1975 Played 1 game

1976 Did not play MLB

 

Notice a statistical anomaly? It would be one thing for Hank Aaron to undergo an 'enhancement', but what are the odds that not one but TWO teammates would both have career years in HR's and HR% in the SAME YEAR as when a Congressional Committee issued its final report saying that anabolic steroids were rampant in the game? Why did Darrell Evans and Davey Johnson both experience career spikes in HR's only to return to earth the following year? And how did Hank finish up?

 

Age HRs HR%

41 20 5.9

42 12 2.6

43 10 3.7

 

So what happened? Enquiring minds want to know.

 

The 1996 Baltimore Orioles set at the time the team HR record for one season. Brady Anderson's 50 HR season was viewed suspiciously.

 

The manager of the 1996 Baltimore Orioles? Davey Johnson.

 

The only question remains: What did Bud Selig know and when did he know it?

 

Fay Vincent circulated a draft steroids policy in 1991. Selig knew that if the scab of steroids was picked off, the puss of the 1973 Atlanta Braves would be oozing all over the game. The scandal of Hank Aaron's HR record being tainted by steroids use would have been a PR disaster at the time and. personally, extremely painful to Bud Selig who, after all, is a long-time friend of Hank Aaron.

 

Hence the boardroom coup which ousted Fay Vincent and made Bud Selig 'Acting Commissioner', while still maintaining his position as the owner of the Milwaukee Brewers, a blatant conflict of interest.

 

 

I certainly buy the steroids on the Braves...but there are also other factors that would have contributed to Aaron's upswing in home runs after age 37....which would have been 1970..and the others

 

MLB lowered the pitchers mound 6 ins and narrowed the strike zone in 1969...they also expanded by 4 teams in both leagues (Expos, Padres, KC, and Seattle) which water downed the pitching.

 

It was also with in two more years that the DH came about and the reserve clause left. Meaning....for an old dude HRs was the way to go to get a payday.

 

Johnson and Evans home run totals meant people couldn't pitch around him so he got better pitches.

 

The other aspect is that right about the age of 37...somebody might have pointed out that he was within striking distance of Ruth and he decided to start swinging from his heels..he was always a good hitter for average...I wonder if his batting average and on base percentage dropped and if his walks, homers, and slugging percentage went up during this time.

 

It is a pretty interesting point you make....but there are other circumstances which might have contributed to it as well. ..Plus...the only thing that got bigger on Hank in the 70's was his ass.

 

I'm sure some people might have juiced as far back as the early 70's....but I dont' see anything in Arron that would lead me to believe he did appearance wise...plus the dude is 73 and in great shape...roids abuse (particularly before the dealers new what they were doing...see L Alzado) should have cut some years off his life if he did it form 37 to 42.

 

C. Wagon

[fringe]

I certainly buy the steroids on the Braves...but there are also other factors that would have contributed to Aaron's upswing in home runs after age 37....which would have been 1970..and the others

 

MLB lowered the pitchers mound 6 ins and narrowed the strike zone in 1969...they also expanded by 4 teams in both leagues (Expos, Padres, KC, and Seattle) which water downed the pitching.

 

It was also with in two more years that the DH came about and the reserve clause left. Meaning....for an old dude HRs was the way to go to get a payday.

 

Johnson and Evans home run totals meant people couldn't pitch around him so he got better pitches.

 

The other aspect is that right about the age of 37...somebody might have pointed out that he was within striking distance of Ruth and he decided to start swinging from his heels..he was always a good hitter for average...I wonder if his batting average and on base percentage dropped and if his walks, homers, and slugging percentage went up during this time.

 

It is a pretty interesting point you make....but there are other circumstances which might have contributed to it as well. ..Plus...the only thing that got bigger on Hank in the 70's was his ass.

 

I'm sure some people might have juiced as far back as the early 70's....but I dont' see anything in Arron that would lead me to believe he did appearance wise...plus the dude is 73 and in great shape...roids abuse (particularly before the dealers new what they were doing...see L Alzado) should have cut some years off his life if he did it form 37 to 42.

 

C. Wagon

yes i know there are other factors. i don't buy the one about evans and johnson, however. you're not addressing how they got those inflated numbers that year.

some people also bring up the point about fulton county being a launcing pad compared to his early days in milwaukee. i don't know for sure, i was just saying it's up for debate and not as cut and dry as jim claims.

and not everyone who took enhancements end up like alzado and camminiti, rip.

[Chuck Wagon]

yes i know there are other factors. i don't buy the one about evans and johnson, however. you're not addressing how they got those inflated numbers that year.

some people also bring up the point about fulton county being a launcing pad compared to his early days in milwaukee. i don't know for sure, i was just saying it's up for debate and not as cut and dry as jim claims.

and not everyone who took enhancements end up like alzado and camminiti, rip.

 

Absolutely, everything is up for debate. I remember when he did it and people were knocking him (Aaron) down because of the longer schedule, night games, lowering of the mound, ...heck even the material in the uniforms and better shoes.

 

I never remember Fulton being a launching pad...Bob Horner and Dale Murphy had some good years there but I think they had plenty of skill.

 

I can't explain Johnson...but Darrell Evans was a pretty good hitter. He wasn't a one season wonder say...like a Brady Anderson. I think he might have hit 500 had he not spent his prime in Candle Stick with the Giants. He hit 40 again late in his career...you'd think if he was on the juice in 73'.....he'd have stayed on it.

 

Som times guys just have a hot year or two...Maris was 19, 16, 39, 61, 33,26.....that is a odd graph. Evans was like that but he tended to up them together in bunches.

 

Johnson...yeah...that one (and is later connection to Anderson) really sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

Regardless, interesting point. Never thought of zoids in the 70s.

 

C. Wagon

[fringe]

Absolutely, everything is up for debate. I remember when he did it and people were knocking him (Aaron) down because of the longer schedule, night games, lowering of the mound, ...heck even the material in the uniforms and better shoes.

 

I never remember Fulton being a launching pad...Bob Horner and Dale Murphy had some good years there but I think they had plenty of skill.

 

I can't explain Johnson...but Darrell Evans was a pretty good hitter. He wasn't a one season wonder say...like a Brady Anderson. I think he might have hit 500 had he not spent his prime in Candle Stick with the Giants. He hit 40 again late in his career...you'd think if he was on the juice in 73'.....he'd have stayed on it.

 

Som times guys just have a hot year or two...Maris was 19, 16, 39, 61, 33,26.....that is a odd graph. Evans was like that but he tended to up them together in bunches.

 

Johnson...yeah...that one (and is later connection to Anderson) really sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

Regardless, interesting point. Never thought of zoids in the 70s.

 

C. Wagon

take davey johnson a step further. he was also mgr. of the mets at the time with that bat boy who supposedly was supplying half the league.

[Chuck Wagon]

take davey johnson a step further. he was also mgr. of the mets at the time with that bat boy who supposedly was supplying half the league.

 

Come to think of his....dude had a nasty complection too.

 

C. Wagon

[fringe]

Come to think of his....dude had a nasty complection too.

 

C. Wagon

here's where i got the info and the discussion that followed on the SF Giants board. it's an interesting read.

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx...s&tid=84293

[Chuck Wagon]

here's where i got the info and the discussion that followed on the SF Giants board. it's an interesting read.

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx...s&tid=84293

 

Its not something that even would have crossed my mind. Beanies and greenies, yes. But not roids. Been conditioned to think of it as the 90's plague. Thanks for posting that up.

 

C. Wagon

 

PS. That being said I am highly confident Gene Michaels, Eddie Brinkman, and Mark Berlanger never used them.

[fringe]

Its not something that even would have crossed my mind. Beanies and greenies, yes. But not roids. Been conditioned to think of it as the 90's plague. Thanks for posting that up.

 

C. Wagon

 

PS. That being said I am highly confident Gene Michaels, Eddie Brinkman, and Mark Berlanger never used them.

if they did, they were doing it wrong.