Justification for the Doom and Gloom

[dyinghard]

The problem is not the current standings of the Giants team being 6-3, but the implications of the complete ineptitude of the starting QB and coaching staff at this point in the season. They failed, again, in one of the biggest games of the season. The Giants have yet to prove they can beat the elite teams. The three losses are to: Seattle, Indy, and Chicago. The teams the Giants have beaten, well, the three other teams in the now extremely over rated NFC East, the mighty Texans, and mighty Bucaneers, both of which were hardly dominating wins. Finally the dominating performance over a rollercoaster Falcons team.

 

All I've heard all year is well look at who they've played. I have and they haven't beaten anyone worth writing home about. If piling up wins and getting to the playoffs to be bounced inthe first orund is something you look forward to, then continue to not worry. You'll be happy that the Giants are in the playoffs.

 

However, when the expectations are raised, like they were for me, and the team you support folds like a cheap suit all year long in the face of adversity, you begin to realize that this ship isn't going anywhere. Everyone cries about respect. Respect from the media, other fans, other teams. Well, as soon as the Giants do something worth respecting, I'll let you know. So far, this season hasn't exceeded any expectations, and we've seen the continued poor play of a supposed franchise QB, with the continuing injury struggles that have plagued this team for years. Add in the lack of discpline this team shows, and the lack of killer instinct to put teams away when they can and you have a team that will not go further than the first round.

 

If this team makes the playoffs, they will get bounced in the first round. Guaranteed.

 

They have not risen to the challenge yet, and always seem ot have an excuse as to why. Injuries, tough schedule, whatever. How about the simple fact that the people on the field plaed like crap, and the coaches did nothing to remedy the situation. When you have coaches that won't change what the plan is, then you have a team that will not win. Period.

 

This game is gut check time. Will this team step up to the plate and win one of the "challenging" games they have on their schedule against one of the elite teams? Because they certainly haven't yet, and the record of the team means dick until they do.

[feefifoefum]

The problem is not the current standings of the Giants team being 6-3, but the implications of the complete ineptitude of the starting QB and coaching staff at this point in the season. They failed, again, in one of the biggest games of the season. The Giants have yet to prove they can beat the elite teams. The three losses are to: Seattle, Indy, and Chicago. The teams the Giants have beaten, well, the three other teams in the now extremely over rated NFC East, the mighty Texans, and mighty Bucaneers, both of which were hardly dominating wins. Finally the dominating performance over a rollercoaster Falcons team.

 

All I've heard all year is well look at who they've played. I have and they haven't beaten anyone worth writing home about. If piling up wins and getting to the playoffs to be bounced inthe first orund is something you look forward to, then continue to not worry. You'll be happy that the Giants are in the playoffs.

 

However, when the expectations are raised, like they were for me, and the team you support folds like a cheap suit all year long in the face of adversity, you begin to realize that this ship isn't going anywhere. Everyone cries about respect. Respect from the media, other fans, other teams. Well, as soon as the Giants do something worth respecting, I'll let you know. So far, this season hasn't exceeded any expectations, and we've seen the continued poor play of a supposed franchise QB, with the continuing injury struggles that have plagued this team for years. Add in the lack of discpline this team shows, and the lack of killer instinct to put teams away when they can and you have a team that will not go further than the first round.

 

If this team makes the playoffs, they will get bounced in the first round. Guaranteed.

 

They have not risen to the challenge yet, and always seem ot have an excuse as to why. Injuries, tough schedule, whatever. How about the simple fact that the people on the field plaed like crap, and the coaches did nothing to remedy the situation. When you have coaches that won't change what the plan is, then you have a team that will not win. Period.

 

This game is gut check time. Will this team step up to the plate and win one of the "challenging" games they have on their schedule against one of the elite teams? Because they certainly haven't yet, and the record of the team means dick until they do.

 

The amount of injuries they Giants have had the last two weeks is pretty shocking, and hard to overcome, but I do agree with everything you said. Eli Manning has to play better, period. He's not a leader, and if the coaching staff had as much faith in Tiki Barber as it does in our alleged "great" quarterback, we'd probably be the best team in the NFC. If I remember correctly, Barber had only 14 carries in week 1, a Giants' loss. I think he had 19 against the Bears. Not sure how many he had against Seattle, but that game was over fast, anyway.

[Hampton27 missed]

You have the right to your opinion and I can't disagree with any of your statement. I'll still keep my faith in this team and hope for the best though. One bad game and one average game by Manning doesn't change my mind about him, he's already proven himself to me as I don't have a short term memory like most fans in the NY area do.

[feefifoefum]

You have the right to your opinion and I can't disagree with any of your statement. I'll still keep my faith in this team and hope for the best though. One bad game and one average game by Manning doesn't change my mind about him, he's already proven himself to me as I don't have a short term memory like most fans in the NY area do.

 

I also have faith in this team, and believe when healthy they are still among the best in the league. As far as Eli goes, I am losing my faith in him and the decision to give up the house for him. How can he be so consistently inaccurate? He is still very young so I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt, but time is running out. Soon, the fans are going to turn on him and it's going to be ugly for him at Giants Stadium.

[njsmalls]

Awesome post. Exactly how I feel about this team at this point.

 

I'm sure they'll get to the playoffs and mirror last year. The Giants have failed time and time again last season and this season to beat elite teams. It seems they are content with being "good".

[BLUE DAWG]

Lack of killer instinct well put. Im sorry to say but that loss made me realize we are not as good as I thought.

[Hampton27 missed]

I also have faith in this team, and believe when healthy they are still among the best in the league. As far as Eli goes, I am losing my faith in him and the decision to give up the house for him. How can he be so consistently inaccurate? He is still very young so I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt, but time is running out. Soon, the fans are going to turn on him and it's going to be ugly for him at Giants Stadium.

 

I guess I look at it a little differently than you. Most of our draft picks have been busts over the years possibly including Corey Webster as the latest. Franchise QBs don't come around very often and sometimes teams need to spend to get one. We are not living in the NFL of the 80s anymore where the draft was your only option, free agency changed everything. I'll tell you what, he sure throws more TD passes than any other Giant QB that I have ever seen in my lifetime and I'm 40 years old.

 

BTW, The fans gave up on Phil Simms too and they all looked like fools back in January of 1987. It was his 7th year.

[njsmalls]

I don't think beating Jacksonville makes up for losing to Chicago by any stretch. But, they got to win...the only way they make up for this loss is to either beat Chicago in their place during the playoffs or get to the superbowl if Chicago loses before we get to play them.

[feefifoefum]

I guess I look at it a little differently than you. Most of our draft picks have been busts over the years possibly including Corey Webster as the latest. Franchise QBs don't come around very often and sometimes teams need to spend to get one. We are not living in the NFL of the 80s anymore where the draft was your only option, free agency changed everything. I'll tell you what, he sure throws more TD passes than any other Giant QB that I have ever seen in my lifetime and I'm 40 years old.

 

BTW, The fans gave up on Phil Simms too and they all looked like fools back in January of 1987. It was his 7th year.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up on him. I understand he's still young and sometimes it just takes awhile for everything to click. I am concerned about his accuracy though. He is far too inaccurate. He misses wide open receivers all the time and when does he ever lead a receiver and hit him in stride? Not recently, that's for sure. I will say that he did look comfortable throwing to Toomer, and it seemed like they were on the same page most of the time. Still, he does miss badly alot and we can no longer say, "He's a rookie, it takes time." He's started 32 games now, that's 2 seasons worth. He needs to step it up. I still believe he will, but like I said, I am not as confident in him doing that as I once was.

[Sephiroth]

The problem is not the current standings of the Giants team being 6-3, but the implications of the complete ineptitude of the starting QB and coaching staff at this point in the season. They failed, again, in one of the biggest games of the season. The Giants have yet to prove they can beat the elite teams. The three losses are to: Seattle, Indy, and Chicago. The teams the Giants have beaten, well, the three other teams in the now extremely over rated NFC East, the mighty Texans, and mighty Bucaneers, both of which were hardly dominating wins. Finally the dominating performance over a rollercoaster Falcons team.

 

All I've heard all year is well look at who they've played. I have and they haven't beaten anyone worth writing home about. If piling up wins and getting to the playoffs to be bounced inthe first orund is something you look forward to, then continue to not worry. You'll be happy that the Giants are in the playoffs.

 

However, when the expectations are raised, like they were for me, and the team you support folds like a cheap suit all year long in the face of adversity, you begin to realize that this ship isn't going anywhere. Everyone cries about respect. Respect from the media, other fans, other teams. Well, as soon as the Giants do something worth respecting, I'll let you know. So far, this season hasn't exceeded any expectations, and we've seen the continued poor play of a supposed franchise QB, with the continuing injury struggles that have plagued this team for years. Add in the lack of discpline this team shows, and the lack of killer instinct to put teams away when they can and you have a team that will not go further than the first round.

 

If this team makes the playoffs, they will get bounced in the first round. Guaranteed.

 

They have not risen to the challenge yet, and always seem ot have an excuse as to why. Injuries, tough schedule, whatever. How about the simple fact that the people on the field plaed like crap, and the coaches did nothing to remedy the situation. When you have coaches that won't change what the plan is, then you have a team that will not win. Period.

 

This game is gut check time. Will this team step up to the plate and win one of the "challenging" games they have on their schedule against one of the elite teams? Because they certainly haven't yet, and the record of the team means dick until they do.

 

Substitute "Pittsburgh" for "Giants" and you've got last year's Steeler's team at this time.

 

I'm pissed about the loss too, but c'mon... we played the best team in the NFC with 9 starters out and held it down for 3 quarters. The refs lost it for us... AGAIN... just as much as the injuries did. We get healthier as the weeks go by, we'll be in good shape.

[smugiant2008]

blah blah blah.... save the bullshit man.... yea so we are not good being 3-0 in the NFC East... 2 of those wins on the road mind you.... ok we lost to the bears when we had injuries and Fuck head coaching and bad QB play for the first time this year..... this is the only game this year you can say Eli let us down.... look around the NFL..... every other team has had their QB let them down (aside from Peyton maybe).... but Brady has sucked shit back to back weeks... Carson Palmer has played terrible in some games..... Rothelisberger looks like he doesn't know what he is doing half the time.... McNabb has played terrible in stretches... I mean the Elite NFL qbs all have a bad game..... Eli is allowed one too.... he had a few last year and he and the team bounced back from all of them... remember Eli's arm single handedly brought us back in the Eagles game.... Im saying yes he had a shitty game.... but it was one game.... get the fuck over it

[njsmalls]

blah blah blah.... save the bullshit man.... yea so we are not good being 3-0 in the NFC East... 2 of those wins on the road mind you.... ok we lost to the bears when we had injuries and Fuck head coaching and bad QB play for the first time this year..... this is the only game this year you can say Eli let us down.... look around the NFL..... every other team has had their QB let them down (aside from Peyton maybe).... but Brady has sucked shit back to back weeks... Carson Palmer has played terrible in some games..... Rothelisberger looks like he doesn't know what he is doing half the time.... McNabb has played terrible in stretches... I mean the Elite NFL qbs all have a bad game..... Eli is allowed one too.... he had a few last year and he and the team bounced back from all of them... remember Eli's arm single handedly brought us back in the Eagles game.... Im saying yes he had a shitty game.... but it was one game.... get the fuck over it

His post wasn't all about Eli.

[Hampton27 missed]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up on him. I understand he's still young and sometimes it just takes awhile for everything to click. I am concerned about his accuracy though. He is far too inaccurate. He misses wide open receivers all the time and when does he ever lead a receiver and hit him in stride? Not recently, that's for sure. I will say that he did look comfortable throwing to Toomer, and it seemed like they were on the same page most of the time. Still, he does miss badly alot and we can no longer say, "He's a rookie, it takes time." He's started 32 games now, that's 2 seasons worth. He needs to step it up. I still believe he will, but like I said, I am not as confident in him doing that as I once was.

He does need to step it up and he is inconsistent. Practically every other QB, even some of the great ones took at least 5 years to get a 60 percent completion rate. Montana, Young, Marino and Ben are a few exceptions. Montana and Young played in the west coast offense with mainly short passes though.

[smugiant2008]

a knock on Eli has always been his high balls..... well this season he has been pretty good about those.... my theory (or excuse) if you want is that it had something to do with the wet ball..... he hasn't been that sporadic with his throws since his rookie year.... it also might have something to do with having a cement footed oaf "protecting" his blindside that he got massacred from 3 times

[fringe]

He does need to step it up and he is inconsistent. Practically every other QB, even some of the great ones took at least 5 years to get a 60 percent completion rate. Montana, Young, Marino and Ben are a few exceptions. Montana and Young played in the west coast offense with mainly short passes though.

Young labored in the USFL for the LA Express and then for shitty Tampa Bay teams. Then he rode the bench in SF for a couple of years. It sure took him a while to reach greatness., and even when he was winning MVP's, the idiots out here cried for Joe.

Steve Young paid his dues, is my point.

 

a knock on Eli has always been his high balls.....

[xxi-xxv]

In rewatching the game on tape you can see that many of Elis balls were not due to bad mechanics or accuracy, but simply balls he rushed too much. There was a 3rd and 5 throw to Plax in the first half with time that was wildly inaccuarate, other than that they were all rushed throws. I do not think its any coincidence that as the pressure mounted from the backside after Pettigout got hurt his throws were off. In reality he could have been sacked 5-6 more times when he got rid of the ball to make a play. I would be more worried about not having Pettigout and how that is going to affect his play then a late season swoon. As for the other previous games, the wins over the Texans and Bucs IMO were Giants Stadium later in the season type games. Simms made a career of games like ELI had the previous 2 weeks at Giants Stadium. People have to realize, playing 8 games at home there no QB will lead the league in passing, Simms himself said that.

 

I would be more alarmed at the ZERO adjustments made to compensate Whitfield and not having Luke then what ELI did the other night. I do not think its any coincidence that on the first drive of the game when Luke was in there and ELI had more time his throws were better.

 

Someone needs to tell the coaching staff that its ok to do a 2-3 step drop and a quick slant or screen pass, if they offensive staff watched the game tape of the Texans game they could have seen that is what they did vs our defense. Only difference is they did not have Tiki Barber to loosen things up even more or the deep threats at WR and TE we do to take a shot or 2 under that scenario.

[fringe]

Someone needs to tell the coaching staff that its ok to do a 2-3 step drop and a quick slant or screen pass, if they offensive staff watched the game tape of the Texans game they could have seen that is what they did vs our defense.

this is one thing that either eli or the receivers have not mastered. but the quick slant that is a staple to mcnabb, peyton, favre, etc. has not been mastered by the giants offense. i agree with everything else you said, x.

[so-cal dub]

In rewatching the game on tape you can see that many of Elis balls were not due to bad mechanics or accuracy, but simply balls he rushed too much. There was a 3rd and 5 throw to Plax in the first half with time that was wildly inaccuarate, other than that they were all rushed throws. I do not think its any coincidence that as the pressure mounted from the backside after Pettigout got hurt his throws were off. In reality he could have been sacked 5-6 more times when he got rid of the ball to make a play. I would be more worried about not having Pettigout and how that is going to affect his play then a late season swoon. As for the other previous games, the wins over the Texans and Bucs IMO were Giants Stadium later in the season type games. Simms made a career of games like ELI had the previous 2 weeks at Giants Stadium. People have to realize, playing 8 games at home there no QB will lead the league in passing, Simms himself said that.

 

I would be more alarmed at the ZERO adjustments made to compensate Whitfield and not having Luke then what ELI did the other night. I do not think its any coincidence that on the first drive of the game when Luke was in there and ELI had more time his throws were better.

 

Someone needs to tell the coaching staff that its ok to do a 2-3 step drop and a quick slant or screen pass, if they offensive staff watched the game tape of the Texans game they could have seen that is what they did vs our defense. Only difference is they did not have Tiki Barber to loosen things up even more or the deep threats at WR and TE we do to take a shot or 2 under that scenario.

:worshippy: I crown you the new father of the Giants sec. Preach on brother xxi, preach on!

[boohyah]

In rewatching the game on tape you can see that many of Elis balls were not due to bad mechanics or accuracy, but simply balls he rushed too much. There was a 3rd and 5 throw to Plax in the first half with time that was wildly inaccuarate, other than that they were all rushed throws. I do not think its any coincidence that as the pressure mounted from the backside after Pettigout got hurt his throws were off. In reality he could have been sacked 5-6 more times when he got rid of the ball to make a play. I would be more worried about not having Pettigout and how that is going to affect his play then a late season swoon. As for the other previous games, the wins over the Texans and Bucs IMO were Giants Stadium later in the season type games. Simms made a career of games like ELI had the previous 2 weeks at Giants Stadium. People have to realize, playing 8 games at home there no QB will lead the league in passing, Simms himself said that.

 

I would be more alarmed at the ZERO adjustments made to compensate Whitfield and not having Luke then what ELI did the other night. I do not think its any coincidence that on the first drive of the game when Luke was in there and ELI had more time his throws were better.

 

Someone needs to tell the coaching staff that its ok to do a 2-3 step drop and a quick slant or screen pass, if they offensive staff watched the game tape of the Texans game they could have seen that is what they did vs our defense. Only difference is they did not have Tiki Barber to loosen things up even more or the deep threats at WR and TE we do to take a shot or 2 under that scenario.

 

Just because he may have been rushed is no excuse for bad mechanics. His passing was garbage, and it wasn't very good against the texans either. Nor was the weather an excuse. To me, he looked either like he was intimidated or he was just waiting for the Bears Defense to stop playing before he got in gear. Top QB's take the game by the scruff of the neck and win it. Look at Montana, he had no special quality as a QB only that he felt he could win the game every time he took the field. Hell all Eli has to do is look across the dinner table and see Peyton to see how a QB is supposed to play!

 

Simms made a career out of having 2 games like Eli just had..........what does that mean??. Simms became a good quarterback, I don't get that comment at all.

 

By the way, the texans clearly played the short passing game because they desperately wanted to get carr's confidence back after he was benched the week before. If you looked at the game closer, when the Texans got around the 20 yard line, the offense booged down because of the shorter field.

[Hampton27 missed]

Young labored in the USFL for the LA Express and then for shitty Tampa Bay teams. Then he rode the bench in SF for a couple of years. It sure took him a while to reach greatness., and even when he was winning MVP's, the idiots out here cried for Joe.

Steve Young paid his dues, is my point.

Yeah, I forgot about the USFL.

 

this is one thing that either eli or the receivers have not mastered. but the quick slant that is a staple to mcnabb, peyton, favre, etc. has not been mastered by the giants offense. i agree with everything else you said, x.

I thought they used the 3 step drop alot in Eli's 1st year albeit, he wasn't good in most of his games.

 

Just because he may have been rushed is no excuse for bad mechanics. His passing was garbage, and it wasn't very good against the texans either. Nor was the weather an excuse. To me, he looked either like he was intimidated or he was just waiting for the Bears Defense to stop playing before he got in gear. Top QB's take the game by the scruff of the neck and win it. Look at Montana, he had no special quality as a QB only that he felt he could win the game every time he took the field. Hell all Eli has to do is look across the dinner table and see Peyton to see how a QB is supposed to play!

 

Simms made a career out of having 2 games like Eli just had..........what does that mean??. Simms became a good quarterback, I don't get that comment at all.

 

By the way, the texans clearly played the short passing game because they desperately wanted to get carr's confidence back after he was benched the week before. If you looked at the game closer, when the Texans got around the 20 yard line, the offense booged down because of the shorter field.

In most of Simms' career, he threw more INTs than TD passes including the 86 Superbowl year. It took him until his 12th year to throw for 60% completions. For Eli being so inaccurate, he sure throws for many TDs in that short field. Most of his TDs are thrown in the endzone and they don't come from yards after catch.

[dyinghard]

blah blah blah.... save the bullshit man.... yea so we are not good being 3-0 in the NFC East... 2 of those wins on the road mind you.... ok we lost to the bears when we had injuries and Fuck head coaching and bad QB play for the first time this year..... this is the only game this year you can say Eli let us down.... look around the NFL..... every other team has had their QB let them down (aside from Peyton maybe).... but Brady has sucked shit back to back weeks... Carson Palmer has played terrible in some games..... Rothelisberger looks like he doesn't know what he is doing half the time.... McNabb has played terrible in stretches... I mean the Elite NFL qbs all have a bad game..... Eli is allowed one too.... he had a few last year and he and the team bounced back from all of them... remember Eli's arm single handedly brought us back in the Eagles game.... Im saying yes he had a shitty game.... but it was one game.... get the fuck over it

In many other threads, I've stated that it's the fault of the coaching as well for not implementing some three step drop, and moving the pcoket to make up for Whitfields shortcomings. It's not all Eli, but Eli's one big bgame a year program isn't working out well. And you know what, saying other QB's screw up doesn't make it any easier when the Giants QB screws up. That may be your medicine that soothes you, but it's unsettling for me. It's not the first bad game he's had this year, his past three have been below average. I'll give him a pass against the Bucs, both QB's stunk. The coaching is very alarming, but Grossman wasn't having the problems Eli was having. Grossman wasn't missing receivers, and Grossman is 4 inches shorter, and should have smaller hands, removing your wet ball excuse. I've been nothing but an Eli supporter. I'm getting tired and frustrated with his lack of performance in any big games. That's my main focus of this thread.

 

The Giants do not perform in big games. They haven't in the past two years. You chose to focus on Eli, however, the problem is more than Eli, as I said, the lack of adaptability makes this team a joke. They will not win the big ones until this team laerns to adjust.

[nygiantsfan]

I actually think we have a shot when we get in the playoffs, just because the NFC is horrible this year. There is no dominant team and everybody basically can beat everybody.

 

The question is, are we going to make it. Some people think that we are going to get 4 gimmie games. Even the "easy" ones are not easy this year.

[dyinghard]

I actually think we have a shot when we get in the playoffs, just because the NFC is horrible this year. There is no dominant team and everybody basically can beat everybody.

 

The question is, are we going to make it. Some people think that we are going to get 4 gimmie games. Even the "easy" ones are not easy this year.

I just don't know how you can say that. That's the same theory everyone applied to the National league this year, yet there the Tigers were, getting worked. The Giants haven't beaten the reigning title holders, nor hae they beaten the Bears. They haven't [;ayed big in a big spot yet, anduntil they do, they are on a short leash.

[Lubeck]

I just don't know how you can say that. That's the same theory everyone applied to the National league this year, yet there the Tigers were, getting worked. The Giants haven't beaten the reigning title holders, nor hae they beaten the Bears. They haven't [;ayed big in a big spot yet, anduntil they do, they are on a short leash.

 

Yeah that road game down in Philly was not a big spot.

 

Honestly, I feel they have a good shot. Right now we are seeing a defense missing numerous starters. Osi and Strahan between the two of them being out really hurts our defense. We all knew going into the season that our secondary was weak, and that the only thing that could keep it from being torched was a consistent pass rush. Without those two, we are left with a rookie and a practice squad player. If Tuck was in we could at least have him and Kiwi, and Awasom rotating in to keep them fresh. So it should be no surprise that our defense has issues.

 

My biggest concern is on offense. And it isn't Eli. It is the playcalling. I keep saying this over and over again, but there is no reason why Tiki shouldn't be getting 25 touches a game and Jacobs 10. What made this team such an offensive powerhouse last season? It wasn't Eli's arm, it was Tikis legs. When we force defenses to respect Tiki, it opens up the passing game. When they start stacking the box, put Jacobs in. Have him pound the line a couple times, throw in some play action passes, and you can loosen up the defense out of stacking the box.

 

I understand that you have to take deep shots here and there, but Huff sends way too many deep. We have enough trouble keeping Eli on his feet as is, why are we putting him back deep in a non-existent pocket?

[icavesai69]

Eli is definetely getting to the point where the "He's still young and learning" excuse runs out. He plays good 2 weeks, then shits himself the next 3. I haven't seen him throw a TD and NOT an INT in a while, if ever. He always seems to have at least 3-5 horrible passes a game. Coaches need to get on his ass.