fishgutmartyr

Cruz was on IR his rookie season.

Call me when McAdoo gets 7 wins. Or has multiple years running a top-10 offense. It might happen, or not; but I wouldn't exactly start talking about how much better the offense is at this point. In the meantime, this article only points out that McAdoo is dealing with the same shit Gilbride did last year--except with Beckham. Frankly, if they didn't draft that kid, the offense would still look terrible. The only other difference is that you guys wanted Gilbride's head on a pike for similar results. Assuming we even get to 7-9.

1) Bellichek is a coach at the Lombardi, Shula, Noll, Landry level: Coughlin isn't. There's no shame in that, but comparing him to those guys is hardly fair. 2) You mean like 2011, where we had injuries, and won a SB? We should have started the rebuild in 2012, if the team was honest in its personnel assessment. That was a last hurrah, that the FO completely misread as a start of a new era. 3) Clearly the problem is there is no clear answer to the problem. You want to blame Coughlin? How's that offensive line doing? Changing OCs clearly changed the results on offense. On the other hand, adding players to the defense really improved things before the injuries started to add up. He's culpable for that. You want to blame Reese? How's that star-studded IR list going? With the addition of Brewer and Williams, we're up to 22 guys on it--nearly half the team. Nobody is winning with that many players out. The 2010 Packers had 10 guys on IR, and it was thought to be amazing that they won a SB. We're in the middle of a rebuild--the turnover in the offseason should have told you that. But I haven't seen one stunted as badly by injuries as this one since the 1970's.

I was never one for interpretive dance.

Nick Grieson, Kevin Lewis, and Jay Foreman. Grieson was injured. Foreman wasn't on the team in the beginning of the season. (I think Lewis was cut in preseason, and had to be brought back, but I'm not sure of that.) None of those guys were supposed to be starters. Sorry bigblue, but with all the blame-game going on, it's hard to keep track. It's especially frustrating because I don't think Reese or Coughlin are more to blame than anyone else. This season has seen injuries, age/attrition, slow development, and disappointing results in what should have been strengths--plenty of blame for all facets of this team. Pinning it on one or two guys isn't going to fix this--Mara has to look at the whole thing. I'll even admit it isn't all on Fewell--he's a flat-out bad coordinator (I'm saying this because of a 5-year record, not just this season), but he isn't responsible for specials or the oline. He isn't getting the players stretched, or handling injuries.

First of all, it's the NFL. The job description is basically "run into each other really, really hard." Most players have been injured somewhere along the way; particularly since between high school, college, and their draft contract ends, they've already played the game for the better part of a decade. Cruz hasn't been injured before, and it was a weird injury. Beason has been injured, but not his foot before. I don't recall Schwartz or Thurmond being injury-prone. Akumura has a torn bicep, which isn't what you'd expect happening to a CB, at least I don't. Nobody knew about Wilson's stenosis until after his injury. Same with Phillips' degenerative knee. Corey Webster played his senior year in college with a bad foot--we drafted him and got a quality starter for years. Reese drafts Thomas who had one knee injury before years earlier that was ok by his senior year, and got a couple of years out of him, too--unfortunately, not for the same length of time we had Webster. But you can't fault Reese and praise Accorsi for doing the same thing. You can't really fault a GM for injuries--and if you could, I could think of a few years where you would have to say Accorsi screwed up, too--does anyone remember who the linebackers were in the 2005 playoff game?

That's true. We do lead the league in IR, and with the exception of DRC (injured), Walton, and Jerry, it reads like this year's FA class; with a few crucial additions. We probably do lead the league in starter-games-missed, but I'm not sure. If we do, it would be the second year running. As for Shawn Williams and Will Allen: Williams spent more time on IR than on the field--and never really got it going. When he was relatively healthy, he'd get starts--but they were William Joseph starts, if you know what I mean. Will Allen got injured a lot, but was better at staying on the field. To be fair, he was decent in coverage, but couldn't get an INT at gun-point. He'd drop passes that seemed to have been thrown to him.

Ward was poached off of the Jets practice squad. Not part of the draft, just like Cruz. I've been hearing all season that Reese's drafts were bad because no one is left from some of his drafts--even if the reason was that they went to another team after their rookie contract was up--using that same "logic," you shouldn't include Wilson or Torbor. Or Cofield. I think it's a stupid argument, because obviously it's a good pick if somebody's willing to play for the player, but I don't make the rules. I could easily argue that Kiwi was a botched pick--I'll leave it to you to decide whether he was a full time sub/guy who had to play out of position because he couldn't break into the line. We traded our position that year to Pittsburgh, who immediately selected Santonio Holmes. We took the extra pick, packaged it with our 2nd rounder, and got Sinorice Moss. Slick. From everything I've heard, Coughlin was Mara's guy, not Accorsi's. Yes, Eli was Ernie's guy. The defensive line? You mean the one with the Hall of Famer that George Young drafted? Was this George Young's team too? If Accorsi was still around in 2007, Pettigout would have been LT, not Diehl, and there wouldn't have been room for Seubert. Wait--Toomer the best Giant's receiver of all time!? Seriously? Longest career of all time? Sure. Most yards in team history? Definitely. Best? No way. I would take Nicks, Smith, Cruz, OBJ, and Del Shofner over him. Hell, I'd take Burress, and I despise that moron. Never said I wanted Coughlin gone--I'm just tired of the Accorsi mythology.

lol, you're right. I was thinking Barry Stokes. I'm not even sure how I got to Wayne there--maybe a spark from a neuron hit a piece of aluminum up there.

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/new-york-giants/roster/2003 Look at this roster. It contains the following: an overrated, often injured TE, a wide receiver tandem that managed to go an entire season without a touchdown in 2004, a running back on the brink of losing his career because of fumbling problems, a HOF'er drafted before Accorsi, and a couple of good draft picks in Diehl and Umenyiora, who hadn't done much of anything to that point. A severly injured Rich Seubert. A left tackle who was already in decline. Keith Hamilton in his last year of freedom, literally. Out of 53 players, those are the ones even worth mentioning, and a good chunk of those were pretty freaking flawed. Our oline was a joke, our linebackers not much better than the ones we have now, and the defensive backfield couldn't buy an interception (they kept dropping their money). Kerry Collins had mobility that made Eli look like Michael Vick in his prime. The team that Accorsi "built for Coughlin and Eli to lead" was 2 years away from even seeing a playoff loss, and 4 years from a SB. Accorsi gets credit for O'Hara, MacKenzie, Pierce--but what about flops like Carlos Emmons, Barrett Green, and Wayne Garrett? Norman Hand? How close did he get to fucking us for years with the Arrington signing? What about the legend that was Kenny Holmes? What about all the years we didn't sign anyone because we were so cap-fucked? Want to talk drafts? He had 11 picks in 2003. 11. We kept Umenyiora, Diehl, Tyree, and Shiancoe for any length of time. We wasted Shiancoe. We cut Keven Walter. So we could hold on to Willie Ponder, I guess. How long were we stuck with William Joseph, Tim Carter, Gerris Wilkinson, Sinorice Moss, Shaun Williams, the two Wills, and a bunch of others hoping we'd get something, anything out of them? Fucking Ron Dayne!? Accorsi bombed out on 4 first rounders on this list alone (Dayne, Williams, Allen, Joseph)--and you guys are putting him on a pedestal while crucifying Reese for Sintim, Austin and some lousy mid-round picks? Or do we then switch the argument to Reese being Accorsi's head of scouting, without giving Reese some credit for the 2004-2005 drafts? Reese has had some shit luck, and made some bad picks. But that doesn't turn Accorsi into a genius. (I'm sorry, BiC, I don't mean to take it out on your post, but this drives me crazy. Sometimes I think I live in a completely different reality. Even worse, I think I missed the point of your post. I think you hit a trigger with that, lol.) While I'm thinking of it, I wish you guys would stop bunching the 2008 draft with 2009-2012. That was a very good draft with some really lousy knees. The talent was there--it just couldn't stay on the field.

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/update/24870917/giants-promote-dl-paul-hazel-waive-dt-dominique-hamilton Our backup LBs for our next defeat will be Hazel/Davidson. When I didn't want to see Herzlich play anymore, this isn't quite what I had in mind...But I'm sure Hermann has these guys all coached up since Tuesday so that it will be a smooth transition if they need to go on the field. I'm sure they will position themselves as well as Williams did. ...And you guys were worried about winning ourselves out of our drafting position...

I'd say better late than never. It looks to me like Reese and Coughlin have the same, noble problem: too loyal to their underlings. Reese's general theory is a reasonable one--if you draft well, you don't spend on FAs, and you turn over your own. But that totally hinges on your draft, and that falls completely on how well your scouting staff does their job--Marc Ross. Our scouting system hasn't changed as far as we know from when Reese was in the spot, so the problem probably lies with the guy that replaced him. Same with Coughlin. This team sucks, but it hasn't given up--that's not a sign of a poorly coached team. Conversely, specials have always been average or less, even drafting players specifically for their special teams skills. With the exception of the backfield, the defense can't develop players, can't get in position, and can't make clutch plays. That's all coaching issues, but at levels lower than Coughlin. If he makes a stink, let Coughlin go, but I don't think he will; he has to see what we're seeing. He'll never say it--he doesn't air the laundry in the press--but he's smart enough to see it.

I completely agree with Pat Traina: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2289196-5-ways-to-fix-the-ny-giants-front-office-and-coaching-staffs

I just thought of something--we're not getting that many games out of our draft choices, that's been established all over the place. On the other hand, I'm having a real problem thinking of any huge influx of FAs (other than this year, obviously) that we've been relying on between 2010 and 2013. Canty (gone), Boley (gone), Antrelle Rolle, Dan Conner(one game wonder), Baas (gone), Patterson/Jenkins, Beason, Jon Conner(we signed because we had to), Dallas Reynolds (we signed because we had to), Rivers(gone), and Bennet (for one year). Locklear(gone). Oh, and a couple of former picks that were ancient and/or broken down: Ross and Andre Brown, both gone. I'm not counting guys who never made it out of preseason like Curry. So not only have our drafts been unproductive (we all agree on that phrase--we argue about why it they were unproductive), we haven't been trying to upgrade/compensate for free agency losses/retirement through free agency, either. It's like we took an older 2010 team and said "Let it ride," for 3 years, hoping that things will magically not go to shit as players age or go elsewhere. I'm not going to list the players we lost--it's too depressing.

I think you've taken this as far as someone can without earning a paycheck for the trouble. Without going into even more ridiculous amounts of detail, this sort of thing is still going to be flawed. I could argue stuff like Chad Jones, but I'll go the other way--James Brewer: 4th rounder; played in 26 games (8 starts); gets a win percentage multiplier that includes a 10-6 season and a Superbowl, when he's only played games for teams comfortably below .500 Anyone care to argue that Brewer deserves to be that many points in the Giant's total, value-wise? Meanwhile, guys like Cruz and Hynoski aren't factored in at all. A great pick on a shitty team is going to be worth less than a terrible pick on a great team, playing the same amount of games. Of course, you'd expect a great pick to play more on a bad team, but I could think of circumstances that would block that (better, more expensive FA, coach with concussion history, etc.). Like I said, I applaud you on the work you've done. That's a damn impressive task to take on for ungrateful bastids like me.

Well, we have a number 1 ranking in something this year...

I appreciate what you're trying to do here, and how much time it took to do.

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Roster-moves-Giants-place-five-players-on-IR/b7d0e109-b720-4e38-b5ab-7a99215e389b Basically, with the exceptions of Jerry and Walton (yay!), our entire group of FA signings are now on IR. Oops, how could I forget DRC? It doesn't get much worse than this.

Yeah. And I wish this team was getting the same results as most of the time Gilly was being "spotted." This offense has pretty much the same problems it had last year: weak line, injuries at running back, no help at tight end, and only one WR playing with any effectiveness. Not really fair to judge an OC on that. But good enough to get a guy retired.

We are talking about the Jaguars, here. I won't call them the worst team in the league, because at this point, we're right there in the running. But who on that offense scared you? Yet when push came to shove, the defense wound up on their collective ass, again. It should never have gotten to that point, but it did. At the beginning of the season, I said that the defense would have to come through for this team to have even a chance--this was one of the moments I was talking about. That hasn't happened once this season. And it's happened precious few times in five freaking years! If the defense had come through that one series, I would be saying that they saved the game for us. I'm in no way, shape, or form saying that the offense played well.

That line put Collins on IR.

Tree, in a bubble, you're right. As I said, the offense stunk up the field in the second half. I'm not faulting the defense for losing the big lead. That would be crazy. But where has that one, crucial stop that has to be made been all season? Even when the offense, through some miracle of happenstance, gets us in a position where we have a shot to win, we give up a long drive, at best. Everytime I hear an announcer say "this is the game" and the defense is on the field, I know they'll lie down like dogs. This isn't just this one game, this is a pattern that has been going on over multiple games, in multiple seasons. No, but coming through in turning points of a game a little more than never would be nice. I swear, some of you guys could watch Fewell gnaw on the skull of a newborn on the sidelines, and find a way to defend him.

People also forget that both Rivers and Roethlisberger walked onto teams which were very much run oriented. Pittsburgh had a great line, and San Diego had Tomlinson and Gates in their prime. Niether of those guys would have gotten a Lombardi in 2011. Roethlisberger would be behind bars in any other town than Pittsburgh.

A little of both--I mean, how the hell do you forget Ian Allen falling backwards on his ass before a play to get a false start penalty? Anyone?... Anyone?...Please? And I remember being upset that we let Chris Bober go, since he was the only lineman with any experience that played with even a little competence that year. Fortunately, the FO had better ideas. Age is kind enough to let me forget the likes of Wayne Lucier or Brian Hatch. Now that I'm in that groove, though, maybe there is hope for the line--because now I'm thinking how fucking bad Diehl looked in his rookie year (Richburg), and how he looked before he went to LT (Pugh).

The D is as much a problem as any other part of this team--that's 2 consecutive games we had the lead before the opponent's last possession. The offense did stink up the field in the second half, but they did regain the lead. And it doesn't excuse the defense for being completely unable to stop any offense from marching down the field.